I honestly thought that APFS worked fine with spinning hard drives, just not as optimally as SSD. I have a 2012 MacBook Pro running a new install of High Sierra, and just learned that it's still formatted as "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)". I thought it was already using APFS, but wasn't noticing any filesystem improvement. This system is dog-slowwwwww.
You should really get an SSD by now, the 2TB-4TB ones are expensive but up to 1TB is ok:
Larger external hard drives are harder to replace because of the price but boot drives are much better on SSD. Applications launch almost instantly, it makes a huge difference to how the computer feels in everyday use.
I honestly thought that APFS worked fine with spinning hard drives, just not as optimally as SSD. I have a 2012 MacBook Pro running a new install of High Sierra, and just learned that it's still formatted as "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)". I thought it was already using APFS, but wasn't noticing any filesystem improvement. This system is dog-slowwwwww.
You should really get an SSD by now, the 2TB-4TB ones are expensive but up to 1TB is ok:
Larger external hard drives are harder to replace because of the price but boot drives are much better on SSD. Applications launch almost instantly, it makes a huge difference to how the computer feels in everyday use.
Fine if you have an older MBP with an easy to remove case but look at iFixit's guides for anything newer, like the late 2015 iMac I just bought or any of the newer MBPs and it's not that easy to crack the case to get inside. Even after you've gotten inside the primary flash storage is usually on the back side of the motherboard, requiring removal of just about everything. Even then, you might not be able to replace the Apple-supplied flash storage with anything else. See Step 57, https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+Retina+5K+Display+SSD+Replacement/30537
As for getting the newer flash storage blades, I'd rather go to a known retailer like OWC/MacSales than buying off Amazon where you never know for sure what you're getting, https://eshop.macsales.com/search/flash storage At this point they aren't offering any of the blade type storage for the iMac. A commenter says the connectors are different than those for MBPs.
I agree that SSDs are faster than spinning drives, I replaced the HDD in my 2011 MBP with an OWC 1TB SSD (std 2.5" variety, but 1TB isn't that much when you're dealing with photos, movies, and music, especially when using desktop Macs.
In my mind this says that High Sierra can be installed on a system, like my late 2015 Retina 5K iMac with a factory 2TB Fusion drive, and run APFS. I didn't go through every instance of the word "fusion" in the man page but I'm sure it's there more than just these two times. I also noticed the comment about Boot Camp although it might only be for the assistant application.
Does this mean Apple has finalized APFS to run on a Fusion or simple HDD drive? Only Apple knows for sure.
That's the issue, right? There's conflicting info between truly public facing info, like the support page, and the developer stuff. The developer preview still says that "some" Fusion Drives are problematic, and aren't converting regular drives at launch.
I'm talking with somebody at Apple I've worked with before about it this weekend. I'm hoping for more information about it.
We see these kinds of problems every time Apple or Microsoft does an update, or upgrade. Some people have no problems, but some do, and not all have the same problems. Different hardware, different software, and different firmware on the drives themselves all account for that. I don’t know if Apple still mods the firmware on their factory installed drives, because I haven’t looked lately, but that’s presented problems before, and one reason Apple’s trim was unreliable for third party SSDs.
I honestly thought that APFS worked fine with spinning hard drives, just not as optimally as SSD. I have a 2012 MacBook Pro running a new install of High Sierra, and just learned that it's still formatted as "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)". I thought it was already using APFS, but wasn't noticing any filesystem improvement. This system is dog-slowwwwww.
You should really get an SSD by now, the 2TB-4TB ones are expensive but up to 1TB is ok:
Larger external hard drives are harder to replace because of the price but boot drives are much better on SSD. Applications launch almost instantly, it makes a huge difference to how the computer feels in everyday use.
Fine if you have an older MBP with an easy to remove case but look at iFixit's guides for anything newer, like the late 2015 iMac I just bought or any of the newer MBPs and it's not that easy to crack the case to get inside. Even after you've gotten inside the primary flash storage is usually on the back side of the motherboard, requiring removal of just about everything. Even then, you might not be able to replace the Apple-supplied flash storage with anything else. See Step 57, https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+27-Inch+Retina+5K+Display+SSD+Replacement/30537
As for getting the newer flash storage blades, I'd rather go to a known retailer like OWC/MacSales than buying off Amazon where you never know for sure what you're getting, https://eshop.macsales.com/search/flash storage At this point they aren't offering any of the blade type storage for the iMac. A commenter says the connectors are different than those for MBPs.
I agree that SSDs are faster than spinning drives, I replaced the HDD in my 2011 MBP with an OWC 1TB SSD (std 2.5" variety, but 1TB isn't that much when you're dealing with photos, movies, and music, especially when using desktop Macs.
I use a 1TB SSD for the startup drive. Everything else is on internal drives in my Mac Pro, or external raids, where all my backup is also done. and is so cheap and large these days, that it pays to put all the content on there, unless you insist on carrying it all with you, and you don’t want to carry another case and cable, if you use a notebook.
i’ve been using 8TB archiving drives for my three drive raids more recently. Those drives run at 6,000 rpm, have a decent amount of cache, and are fast enough singly, but in a three drive raid 5 install, are way faster than most people will need for that purpose. They only have cost $211 apiece from Newegg during their periodic sales. That’s pretty cheap.
Umm, no where in the documentation does it say that hard disk drives are incompatible...
When you upgrade to macOS High Sierra, systems with all flash storage configurations are converted automatically. Systems with hard disk drives (HDD) and Fusion drives won't be converted to APFS.
That does not say they can't be converted. APFS has been around in developer beta form for over a year now. I'm sure we would have heard rumblings from the blogosphere about this.
I'm guessing there may be extra steps to take, possibly even a complete reformat to switch to APFS oh systems with hard disk drives.
Given that I can't format a 5TB hard drive in bay 2 on my 5,1 Mac Pro that now has APFS on its boot SSD, there's something going on. And like the article says, it's possible we may just have to wait.
I'm aware of APFS' history. There may in fact be extra steps to take. They just don't exist now. And, if it was solid, why not convert the Fusion Drives automatically?
I have a mid 2010 MacPro 12Core with a 520GB SSD as my boot drive, but in the three other bays I have QTY 3 x 3TB Hard Drives.... what will happen if I upgrade my system to High Sierra next month.... will the SSD be updated to the new APFS system (thus giving better boot and app launch times) and the other QTY 3 x 3TB will remain as is.... or will High Sierra be installed by my whole system won't have the APFS update...?
Umm, no where in the documentation does it say that hard disk drives are incompatible...
When you upgrade to macOS High Sierra, systems with all flash storage configurations are converted automatically. Systems with hard disk drives (HDD) and Fusion drives won't be converted to APFS.
That does not say they can't be converted. APFS has been around in developer beta form for over a year now. I'm sure we would have heard rumblings from the blogosphere about this.
I'm guessing there may be extra steps to take, possibly even a complete reformat to switch to APFS oh systems with hard disk drives.
Given that I can't format a 5TB hard drive in bay 2 on my 5,1 Mac Pro that now has APFS on its boot SSD, there's something going on. And like the article says, it's possible we may just have to wait.
I'm aware of APFS' history. There may in fact be extra steps to take. They just don't exist now. And, if it was solid, why not convert the Fusion Drives automatically?
I have a mid 2010 MacPro 12Core with a 520GB SSD as my boot drive, but in the three other bays I have QTY 3 x 3TB Hard Drives.... what will happen if I upgrade my system to High Sierra next month.... will the SSD be updated to the new APFS system (thus giving better boot and app launch times) and the other QTY 3 x 3TB will remain as is.... or will High Sierra be installed by my whole system won't have the APFS update...?
Please advise and revert... ?
Best regards, Anthony
Boot drive will be made APFS. Data drives will remain as-is.
I guess I need to scramble to find one of those 2.5” drive carrier adapters for the Mac Pro before people just stop making them. They probably already have, come to think of it…
This is confusing, I thought APFS's dev docs early on suggested some benefits specific to Fusion Drives, like keeping all metadata in the SSD, while HFS didn't know the difference.
Maybe it'll come at a later date?
I also wonder if it hurts performance on HDDs which is why they won't automatically update them. Is there an opt-in for HDDs?
I'm happily watching as everyone else deals with the unfinished software... I have enough trouble with Apple's "final product" anymore; forget messing with betas. I used to enjoy exploring new tech stuff but it's just tiresome anymore.
I guess I need to scramble to find one of those 2.5” drive carrier adapters for the Mac Pro before people just stop making them. They probably already have, come to think of it…
I have a Late 2012 27" iMac (Core i7) and the hardware still performs admirably. Perhaps its time to tear into it and swap the SSD for something bigger. I've been looking forward to APFS.
Comments
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-2-5-Inch-Internal-MZ-75E500B-AM/dp/B00OBRE5UE
All you have to do to install it is get an enclosure and cloning software:
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Tool-free-Enclosure-Optimized-EC-UASP/dp/B00OJ3UJ2S
https://bombich.com
Plug it in, clone the drive, then test it boots ok by rebooting holding alt-key. Then follow the drive replacement guide, using a screwdriver kit:
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+13-Inch+Unibody+Mid+2012+Hard+Drive+Replacement/10378
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook+Pro+15-Inch+Unibody+Mid+2012+Hard+Drive+Replacement/10761
https://www.amazon.com/Kingsdun-Pentalobe-Phillips-Screwdriver-Blackberry/dp/B00MHCFQZI
Larger external hard drives are harder to replace because of the price but boot drives are much better on SSD. Applications launch almost instantly, it makes a huge difference to how the computer feels in everyday use.
As for getting the newer flash storage blades, I'd rather go to a known retailer like OWC/MacSales than buying off Amazon where you never know for sure what you're getting, https://eshop.macsales.com/search/flash storage At this point they aren't offering any of the blade type storage for the iMac. A commenter says the connectors are different than those for MBPs.
I agree that SSDs are faster than spinning drives, I replaced the HDD in my 2011 MBP with an OWC 1TB SSD (std 2.5" variety, but 1TB isn't that much when you're dealing with photos, movies, and music, especially when using desktop Macs.
i’ve been using 8TB archiving drives for my three drive raids more recently. Those drives run at 6,000 rpm, have a decent amount of cache, and are fast enough singly, but in a three drive raid 5 install, are way faster than most people will need for that purpose. They only have cost $211 apiece from Newegg during their periodic sales. That’s pretty cheap.
Please advise and revert... ?
Best regards,
Anthony
Maybe it'll come at a later date?
I also wonder if it hurts performance on HDDs which is why they won't automatically update them. Is there an opt-in for HDDs?