FCC chairman urges Apple to activate FM radios in iPhones in light of recent disasters [u]...

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  • Reply 101 of 153
    Simple:

    No 1/8” headphone jack = no external antenna capability for FM.

    Even non smartphone “Walkman” style radios require your wired headphones to also serve as an FM antenna.

    Lightning port probably can’t serve the same purpose due to it being a “digital” port at all times. Also explains the 2016 cut off...
    They could sell a Lightning connected wire / antenna.
    How would that work? The entry is digital? You'd need a FM receiver that connects to the lightning port to make this work with an antenna connected to it (and if your doing that, why not just buy a damn radio!).
  • Reply 102 of 153
    I remember when my old Sony Erricson phones had FM radio and I used it regularly, what I hated though was it HAD to be via earphones as they were the antenna. The phone wouldn't even TRY to get a signal without plugging the earphones in.
  • Reply 103 of 153
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,982member
    http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/27/media/trump-fcc-puerto-rico/index.html

    "In 2012, the FCC announced hearings within weeks of Hurricane Sandy. These hearings were used to gather information to help strengthen communications networks and guide future response efforts. 

    But hearings can sometimes result in additional regulation for the industry, which critics suggest could be a point of concern for the current FCC. Ajit Pai, the FCC chairman appointed by Trump, has been focused on scrapping regulations

    "Frankly, I think Pai is worried ... that hearings will point to problems the FCC needs to solve through regulation," says Harold Feld, SVP at Public Knowledge, an advocacy group."

    Yuh think.

  • Reply 104 of 153
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,283member
    foggyhill said:
    Soli said:
    Simple:

    No 1/8” headphone jack = no external antenna capability for FM.

    Even non smartphone “Walkman” style radios require your wired headphones to also serve as an FM antenna.

    Lightning port probably can’t serve the same purpose due to it being a “digital” port at all times. Also explains the 2016 cut off…
    But doesn't the headphone adapter and the included headphones have to convert digital to analog at some point along the cable which would then allow for a minimal FM antenna? I really don't see how a 1/8" headphone jack is somehow required for the physics to work when we're still talking about an analog antenna.
    The antenna signal needs to get to the receiver to be of use. The current discontinuity means it isn't going to work.
    The current A/D I think occurs in the earpods, that's a pretty short antenna...

    Good grief, a FM receiver can be bought for what $2-3...Then you can string cables for there to your roof if you want reception. This will never happen with the Iphone the way it is now and doing it would be senseless. Pai is a MORON.

    I could build my own radio from a radio shack kit at 10 in the 1970s. It's so ridiculously cheap and works on little power. the Speakers are what takes the most power but you can forgo that and plug and earphone straight on the board. A good 9volt could then last many days. Buy a few and last many weeks.
    The goal here is not high fidelity, but info after all hey BOZO Pai.
    Spot on. Go buy a radio and store it away somewhere. In a few years when you need it go find it. It's there. Someplace. Perhaps in the rubble. Don't rely on that smartphone you always have with you. That would be stupid. 
    /s



    It's unfair that Apple may not be allowed to sell the latest iPhones in Mexico, and perhaps soon too in Canada, because of this ignorant idea of FM in a smartphone.
    (EDIT: Added link discussing the Mexican law http://www.insideradio.com/free/mexico-is-first-country-to-require-fm-chip-activation/article_4a6e2a4e-4cd5-11e7-a834-cbb238541a35.html )

    But perhaps they planned for this eventuality since it's been a push underway since at least 2012. Assuming it's accurate that the Qualcomm modem chips Apple is currently using no longer have the typically built-in FM turner as supplied to other OEM's then I will guess that will be their way of working around the law. Make sure it's not there so that they can't be obligated to enable it. Might work. 
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 105 of 153
    gatorguy said:
    If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
    Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
    I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
    If cell towers are down, cell phones are down.
  • Reply 106 of 153
    FCC Chairman Pai once again demonstrates that he is a complete ass and well removed from reality.
    tmay
  • Reply 107 of 153
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,283member
    gatorguy said:
    If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
    Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
    I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
    If cell towers are down, cell phones are down.
    My comment addressed StrangeDays saying "I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online." 
  • Reply 108 of 153
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,823member
    rrrob said:
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Apple would never do what the FCC Chairman Pai urge Apple to do!  It would take away some of Apple music streaming business revenue and cellular companies data usage revenue!  Apple is all about maximizing profit!  
    Which is why they included a mini-jack to lightning connector adapter for free. Sigh...

    I'm not an RF guy, but there's a hell of a lot of difference between a Lightning connection and a 3.5 mm headphone jack; I'm thinking that Lightning, a digital connection, won't pass an analog signal from an antenna.
    I'm buzzword compliant on RF matters -- and can confirm your suspicion that there is a giant difference.
    removed post, thanks for Apple statement update.
    Yes I appreciate it too. That's new information. I would be curious tho why the Qualcomm chips Apple receives don't include FM capabilities as they typically do. Note too that unlike the common belief held by some commenters a space consuming two foot built-in antenna is not necessary either. I remembered reading this some time back while researching a GPS antenna issue on another site. 
    http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon+-+Article+-+BGB719+Miniature+LNA+for+embedded+FM+radio+antenna.pdf?fileId=db3a30433a047ba0013a4aa7a03b64c2
    "requires power" is the issue with that. And, new hardware and not backwards-compatible, nor a switch to throw.
    Hmm… Anyone know how long a Qi induction receiver coil is? I wonder if it could be used as a suitable FM antenna with some clever switching to keep the FM receiver from being fried during battery charging. Obviously, this falls into the "future possibilities" department.
    Or they could use the front or back glass as the antannae (like on the watch for LTE) - "Courage"
  • Reply 109 of 153
    GG1GG1 Posts: 282member
    foggyhill said:

    Good grief, a FM receiver can be bought for what $2-3...Then you can string cables for there to your roof if you want reception. This will never happen with the Iphone the way it is now and doing it would be senseless. Pai is a MORON.

    I could build my own radio from a radio shack kit at 10 in the 1970s. It's so ridiculously cheap and works on little power. the Speakers are what takes the most power but you can forgo that and plug and earphone straight on the board. A good 9volt could then last many days. Buy a few and last many weeks.
    The goal here is not high fidelity, but info after all hey BOZO Pai.
    Agreed.

    I assume that Pai realizes that the Emergency Alert System (EAS, the US’ national warning system) is merely a messaging system that sends its warning messages to all AM, FM, TV, cable TV, satellite radio, NOAA weather radios, smart phones, and other wireless and wired systems. It is NOT only on FM stations. BTW, NOAA radios are on VHF, not FM.

    There is a separate but parallel system to send alerts to smartphone through their providers (if you’re in the US, you’ve probably received Amber Alerts).

    I guess Pai assumes the case of the cellular system being down but your phone can still operate. But any cheap AM or FM (or slightly less cheap NOAA) radio will be just as good for getting alerts (and the battery life will be MUCH better).

    If the US government wants to mandate reception of EAS on a smart phone (when there is no cellular signal), then NOAA is better since the frequency is higher than FM (so the necessary antenna can be smaller).





    tmayrandominternetperson
  • Reply 110 of 153
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,823member
    gatorguy said:
    sog35 said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
    Agreed. I live in a hurricane prone area and have gone thru some. Cell phone is useless when the power is out for days on end. Hand crank radio worked perfectly. I’d rather save the limited phone power for texts, assuming towers online. 
    I'm sure you figured out you can charge your phone from your vehicle. ;)
    If only vehicles included radios. /s
    I don't think you'll be walking out to your vehicle in blasting rain when tree branches, fence pieces and yard chairs are flying past pushed by 100MPH winds. At least I would assume you're wiser than that.

    Dead of night, no porchlights, no streetlights, no moonlight, the only light a fleeting one when a transformer explodes. You can hear the wind howl, the trees cracking, unknown things hitting your home while you wait and pray that it's not accompanied by tornadoes which are far more likely to rip your roof off than the hurricane. If you've lost all your normal connections to the outside world whether by accident or ignorance that FM chip in your phone could be your best friend for a few hours. 
    Again: Why didn't you have the FM crank radio with you THE NIGHT BEFORE?

    And don't tell me they were sold out.  You should have purchased the FM radio months if not years ago. You live in a high risk Hurricane area.  That's your fault for not being prepared, not Apple.

    This is like blaming Apple that the iPhone does not have a smoke alarm and your house caught on fire but you didn't install smoke alarms.
    I WAS prepared. Well prepared since this was my 5th hurricane. One of my young neighbors was not as he had never experienced a hurricane before. And yes his wife was scared to death when the house went black and phones and internet went out. They were one of the first neighbors I checked on along with two very elderly ones on my street after the sun came up and the rains tapered down enough.

    I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
    gatorguybaconstang
  • Reply 111 of 153
    GG1GG1 Posts: 282member
    k2kw said:

    I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
    Getting batteries can be a problem during these times, which is why I'll soon invest in a high-quality rechargeable battery platform (Eneloop). One benefit of these batteries is that they don't leak over time like alkaline batteries, so if you forget to remove them, they won't damage the radio (another benefit: much less landfill fodder). They come in AAA and AA sizes, but there are adapters to fit these into C- and D-sized shells.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 112 of 153
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,283member
    GG1 said:
    k2kw said:

    I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
    Getting batteries can be a problem during these times, which is why I'll soon invest in a high-quality rechargeable battery platform (Eneloop). One benefit of these batteries is that they don't leak over time like alkaline batteries, so if you forget to remove them, they won't damage the radio (another benefit: much less landfill fodder). They come in AAA and AA sizes, but there are adapters to fit these into C- and D-sized shells.
    I've got a dozen of so of those, and a few dozen of the Amazon-branded ones (the white ones which reportedly are Eneloop equivalents, or at least they were). I've not noticed any significant differences in day-to-day use and Amazon's are much less expensive. I rely on them frequently for quick set-up portrait lighting, and the occasional outdoor fill instead of reflectors. Continuous LED rather than flash which has worked out surprisingly well, especially for some of the trickier lighting situations where I no longer have to chimp a shot to check placement and power. Batteries last quite a long time with the LED studio lights.
    GG1
  • Reply 113 of 153
    GG1GG1 Posts: 282member
    gatorguy said:
    GG1 said:
    k2kw said:

    I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
    Getting batteries can be a problem during these times, which is why I'll soon invest in a high-quality rechargeable battery platform (Eneloop). One benefit of these batteries is that they don't leak over time like alkaline batteries, so if you forget to remove them, they won't damage the radio (another benefit: much less landfill fodder). They come in AAA and AA sizes, but there are adapters to fit these into C- and D-sized shells.
    I've got a dozen of so of those, and a few dozen of the Amazon-branded ones (the white ones which reportedly are Eneloop equivalents, or at least they were). I've not noticed any significant differences in day-to-day use and Amazon's are much less expensive. I rely on them frequently for quick set-up portrait lighting, and the occasional outdoor fill instead of reflectors. Continuous LED rather than flash which has worked out surprisingly well, especially for some of the trickier lighting situations where I no longer have to chimp a shot to check placement and power. Batteries last quite a long time with the LED studio lights.
    Thanks. I'll check out the Amazon equivalents.
  • Reply 114 of 153
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,283member
    GG1 said:
    gatorguy said:
    GG1 said:
    k2kw said:

    I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
    Getting batteries can be a problem during these times, which is why I'll soon invest in a high-quality rechargeable battery platform (Eneloop). One benefit of these batteries is that they don't leak over time like alkaline batteries, so if you forget to remove them, they won't damage the radio (another benefit: much less landfill fodder). They come in AAA and AA sizes, but there are adapters to fit these into C- and D-sized shells.
    I've got a dozen of so of those, and a few dozen of the Amazon-branded ones (the white ones which reportedly are Eneloop equivalents, or at least they were). I've not noticed any significant differences in day-to-day use and Amazon's are much less expensive. I rely on them frequently for quick set-up portrait lighting, and the occasional outdoor fill instead of reflectors. Continuous LED rather than flash which has worked out surprisingly well, especially for some of the trickier lighting situations where I no longer have to chimp a shot to check placement and power. Batteries last quite a long time with the LED studio lights.
    Thanks. I'll check out the Amazon equivalents.
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HZV9TGS
    GG1
  • Reply 115 of 153
     So what about devices prior to iPhone 7, Apple?!
  • Reply 116 of 153
    GG1 said:
    k2kw said:

    I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
    Getting batteries can be a problem during these times, which is why I'll soon invest in a high-quality rechargeable battery platform (Eneloop). One benefit of these batteries is that they don't leak over time like alkaline batteries, so if you forget to remove them, they won't damage the radio (another benefit: much less landfill fodder). They come in AAA and AA sizes, but there are adapters to fit these into C- and D-sized shells.
    Why not buy a hand crank radio? Most of the models I've seen also include a flashlight and usb to charge a phone. There are many decently reviewed ones on Amazon for under $25. You'll spend more than that on 16 AA "amazon basics" batteries.

    I have one in an emergency backpack sitting by my back door.
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 117 of 153
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,283member
    stompy said:
    GG1 said:
    k2kw said:

    I was able to find every thing I needed (plywood, water, food) by the Wednesday before Irma but couldn't find D Batteries for my radio. I think requiring radio support is great so I've already sent an email to Senators Rubio and Nelson to pass a law requiring it. Maybe apple can "Innovate" and come up with a solution or put the headphone jack back- "Courage"
    Getting batteries can be a problem during these times, which is why I'll soon invest in a high-quality rechargeable battery platform (Eneloop). One benefit of these batteries is that they don't leak over time like alkaline batteries, so if you forget to remove them, they won't damage the radio (another benefit: much less landfill fodder). They come in AAA and AA sizes, but there are adapters to fit these into C- and D-sized shells.
    Why not buy a hand crank radio? Most of the models I've seen also include a flashlight and usb to charge a phone. There are many decently reviewed ones on Amazon for under $25. You'll spend more than that on 16 AA "amazon basics" batteries.

    I have one in an emergency backpack sitting by my back door.
    You must not have teenage kids. Tthe first one I bought and kept in a hurricane kit disappeared, with my son begrudgingly admitting to "borrowing" it for an ATV off-road trip. He thinks might have left it in someone else's truck. Or out on the trail somewhere. "Dad, you never use it anyway. What's the big deal? I'll get you another one if you'll stop yelling?"

    So I bought another "after-the fact" ( and fortunately a false alarm) a couple years ago. Had I needed it tho it would not have been there.  :(
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 118 of 153
    tmay said:
    trumptman said:
    Apple can state that current iPhones may not have to capability for FM bit it clearly isn't something expensive or hard to engineer into future phones and it should be done.

    Many instances where the access to services is restricted, it stinks of a pure power and money grab.

    So there is the emergency services area to consider but also the fact that many of our complaints are with regulated monopolies that control public property and make billions off it. This could be public right of way access for cable television and internet access, public airways for satellite television, public over the air television stations and radio stations.

    Apple showed their own wisdom here when the forced carriers to take the iPhone without controlling items on the iPhone. The carriers tried to use control of one area (cell networks) to control another area (cell phones). Phones should be to access FM radio rather than just streaming.

    You are talking to a guy that has a generator. Has several stand alone radios that can run 100 hours on two AA batteries.

    I'd love to see the government clean up our access to over the air television and force some better programming there. It would be so nice to have what is available in places like the U.K with DTT aka Freeview.

    Right now they keep locking away abilities behind payments. Stream your music if you have enough data. Stream your television if you have a service and home internet (which they are trying to cap in areas where there is no competition.) 

    VCR's didn't require permission to record a program off the television. We could have phones that stream and get FM. We could have televisions that have good programming over the air and via the internet.

    More is better and in this case safer. It is just mandating access to what you already own, the public airways.
    No iPhone has ever had FM capability. Apple has sold over a billion of them. I'm guessing that nobody missed it.

    Really would be stupid to add it now to solve a problem best solved in other ways. But if legislation is the answer, then how about something more useful than FM radio.
    100 thumbs up.  This is my sentiment exactly.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 119 of 153
     So what about devices prior to iPhone 7, Apple?!
    Are you suggesting that Apple could implement FM radio reception in an iPhone 6 via a software update?  Just because the communication chip inside the phone has capabilities that Apple never took advantage of doesn't mean they can do so retroactively.

    Could Apple figure out a way to include excellent FM reception in future iPhones?  (Of course.  Heck, they might even be able to include OTA digital TV reception.)  Do I expect them to do so without a mandate from the FCC?  No.  And I don't think it's about protecting iTunes and Apple Music revenue either.  It's just part of Apple's culture of saying "no" to "good" ideas that aren't "great" ideas (which helps them, usually, create elegant solutions without the bloat you find in competing solutions.)
  • Reply 120 of 153

    If you live in a hurricane prone area, you should have a hand crank emergency weather radio. How would people in Puerto Rico be powering their iPhones to use as radios when they are mostly without any power anyway? These little radios can be had for like $20 now and they have flashlights, radios, can even crank to charge your smart phone. I guess Apple should also make a crank accessory? Pai is such an idiot.
    So are those that think the government can fix stupid with regulations.  John Wayne may not have said it first, but he was spot on when he said, "Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid".

    Okay never heard that one before, but it going to be one of my favorites. Goes right up there with insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.
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