This has never been a switch to throw, regardless of what the FCC chairman says.
I know this has been noted but to me it doesn’t pass the smell test. Every other phone with the same chips and a headphone jack (we are talking iPhone 6S and below) has the FM ability and Apple doesn’t? We’ve seen Apple do this in a number of areas. RIght now they intentionally throttle down the Qualcomm chip so that it matches the performance of the Intel chip as an example. People know the capabilities of the chips and what they can and can’t do but Apple does what they do too.
Okay, one more time. There are physics at work, here.
Having FM compatibility in a chip does not mean that the support equipment for same chip is included. The modem chip in the 5 to 6s chip itself is not an antenna, and prior phones don't have an FM-capable modem at all. There would have to be support equipment inside the phone for a headphone antenna.
That support equipment does not exist. Therefore, there is no software switch to throw to make this work, and Pai could have sent an intern into the FCC documents to see if this was possible. Why he didn't is a mystery to me.
Could Apple engineer this in hardware and software in the future if it wanted to? Sure.
Is it a dormant ability in the previous phones that it just decided that it wanted to not turn on in iOS? No.
Could they turn on the chip in the 5 through 6s in software? Sure -- but with no antenna, and no way to add one in hardware retroactively, it wouldn't do anything.
I'm suggesting the equipment exists and Apple just doesn't want to do it.
You are completely and utterly incorrect about your assumption. I am not taking Apple's word on the matter. Feel free to take apart some phones and look for the support hardware. Feel free to scour iFixit's teardowns.
You won't find the antenna support in hardware, because it isn't there.
I don't really care about a mandate, one way or another. But, it isn't going to happen in older iPhones.
Apple does not work for the government, and as far as I know, they have no R&D contracts with the government, so they have no obligation to do the FCC's bidding (or that of any other government agency, except where prescribed by law). It seems that whenever some terrible thing happens, the government uses that event to further some pet agenda. After the San Bernadino attacks, the FBI tried to get Apple to build a backdoor into their devices. Now, following several hurricane disasters, FCC wants Apple to turn their phones into FM radios.
Apple does not work for the government, and as far as I know, they have no R&D contracts with the government, so they have no obligation to do the FCC's bidding (or that of any other government agency, except where prescribed by law). It seems that whenever some terrible thing happens, the government uses that event to further some pet agenda. After the San Bernadino attacks, the FBI tried to get Apple to build a backdoor into their devices. Now, following several hurricane disasters, FCC wants Apple to turn their phones into FM radios.
This has never been a switch to throw, regardless of what the FCC chairman says.
I know this has been noted but to me it doesn’t pass the smell test. Every other phone with the same chips and a headphone jack (we are talking iPhone 6S and below) has the FM ability and Apple doesn’t? We’ve seen Apple do this in a number of areas. RIght now they intentionally throttle down the Qualcomm chip so that it matches the performance of the Intel chip as an example. People know the capabilities of the chips and what they can and can’t do but Apple does what they do too.
Okay, one more time. There are physics at work, here.
Having FM compatibility in a chip does not mean that the support equipment for same chip is included. The modem chip in the 5 to 6s chip itself is not an antenna, and prior phones don't have an FM-capable modem at all. There would have to be support equipment inside the phone for a headphone antenna.
That support equipment does not exist. Therefore, there is no software switch to throw to make this work, and Pai could have sent an intern into the FCC documents to see if this was possible. Why he didn't is a mystery to me.
Could Apple engineer this in hardware and software in the future if it wanted to? Sure.
Is it a dormant ability in the previous phones that it just decided that it wanted to not turn on in iOS? No.
Could they turn on the chip in the 5 through 6s in software? Sure -- but with no antenna, and no way to add one in hardware retroactively, it wouldn't do anything.
That's not my understanding nor what I've seen reported elsewhere. I fully understand that all FM compatibility will cell phones requires an antenna and that all phones up to this point use the headphones attached through the headphone jack to provide that antenna. I'm also fully aware that Apple increasingly is engineering their own custom chips beyond the CPU and now GPU and as part of that process, they don't want to include this ability in those chips when they find a way to move past Intel and Qualcomm as an example. Basically we don't have the ability via schematics on the headphone port iPhones to know whether Apple is capable of turning on the FM chip or just digging in their heels. I'm suggesting the equipment exists and Apple just doesn't want to do it. I mentioned the examples of Apple being unwilling to acknowledge clear hardware differences and differences in capabilities in hardware between vendors for the iPhone. The most recent example was Quallcomm vs Intel but prior examples involved CPU's being sourced from difference sources, screens, etc. Apple's official word isn't good enough. We've seen this capability blocked via software on Android phones and even then the vendors haven't been very eager to provide access. For example on the Samsung phones there had to be an update and then people had to gain access via third party app.
All that said, I think it appropriate to mandate this ability going forward and Apple should be included in that mandate. I understand we should all be prepared. However there are times when we aren't at home with all our goodies. I think of my own son right now who is of that younger generation. He doesn't even seem to worry much about driving and even seems to enjoy taking public transit buses to university. If something were to go down in terms of an earthquake in California. He can't go to his car and turn on the radio. What he will have on him is his phone and this is true of lots of people. Right now it is is merely an urging. I would recommend it be a mandate.
WTF. Since when the heck did you start wanting a nanny state?
This has never been a switch to throw, regardless of what the FCC chairman says.
I know this has been noted but to me it doesn’t pass the smell test. Every other phone with the same chips and a headphone jack (we are talking iPhone 6S and below) has the FM ability and Apple doesn’t? We’ve seen Apple do this in a number of areas. RIght now they intentionally throttle down the Qualcomm chip so that it matches the performance of the Intel chip as an example. People know the capabilities of the chips and what they can and can’t do but Apple does what they do too.
Okay, one more time. There are physics at work, here.
Having FM compatibility in a chip does not mean that the support equipment for same chip is included. The modem chip in the 5 to 6s chip itself is not an antenna, and prior phones don't have an FM-capable modem at all. There would have to be support equipment inside the phone for a headphone antenna.
That support equipment does not exist. Therefore, there is no software switch to throw to make this work, and Pai could have sent an intern into the FCC documents to see if this was possible. Why he didn't is a mystery to me.
Could Apple engineer this in hardware and software in the future if it wanted to? Sure.
Is it a dormant ability in the previous phones that it just decided that it wanted to not turn on in iOS? No.
Could they turn on the chip in the 5 through 6s in software? Sure -- but with no antenna, and no way to add one in hardware retroactively, it wouldn't do anything.
That's not my understanding nor what I've seen reported elsewhere. I fully understand that all FM compatibility will cell phones requires an antenna and that all phones up to this point use the headphones attached through the headphone jack to provide that antenna. I'm also fully aware that Apple increasingly is engineering their own custom chips beyond the CPU and now GPU and as part of that process, they don't want to include this ability in those chips when they find a way to move past Intel and Qualcomm as an example. Basically we don't have the ability via schematics on the headphone port iPhones to know whether Apple is capable of turning on the FM chip or just digging in their heels. I'm suggesting the equipment exists and Apple just doesn't want to do it. I mentioned the examples of Apple being unwilling to acknowledge clear hardware differences and differences in capabilities in hardware between vendors for the iPhone. The most recent example was Quallcomm vs Intel but prior examples involved CPU's being sourced from difference sources, screens, etc. Apple's official word isn't good enough. We've seen this capability blocked via software on Android phones and even then the vendors haven't been very eager to provide access. For example on the Samsung phones there had to be an update and then people had to gain access via third party app.
All that said, I think it appropriate to mandate this ability going forward and Apple should be included in that mandate. I understand we should all be prepared. However there are times when we aren't at home with all our goodies. I think of my own son right now who is of that younger generation. He doesn't even seem to worry much about driving and even seems to enjoy taking public transit buses to university. If something were to go down in terms of an earthquake in California. He can't go to his car and turn on the radio. What he will have on him is his phone and this is true of lots of people. Right now it is is merely an urging. I would recommend it be a mandate.
WTF. Since when the heck did you start wanting a nanny state?
I have no ideal what you are talking about. Are you trolling?
This has never been a switch to throw, regardless of what the FCC chairman says.
I know this has been noted but to me it doesn’t pass the smell test. Every other phone with the same chips and a headphone jack (we are talking iPhone 6S and below) has the FM ability and Apple doesn’t? We’ve seen Apple do this in a number of areas. RIght now they intentionally throttle down the Qualcomm chip so that it matches the performance of the Intel chip as an example. People know the capabilities of the chips and what they can and can’t do but Apple does what they do too.
Okay, one more time. There are physics at work, here.
Having FM compatibility in a chip does not mean that the support equipment for same chip is included. The modem chip in the 5 to 6s chip itself is not an antenna, and prior phones don't have an FM-capable modem at all. There would have to be support equipment inside the phone for a headphone antenna.
That support equipment does not exist. Therefore, there is no software switch to throw to make this work, and Pai could have sent an intern into the FCC documents to see if this was possible. Why he didn't is a mystery to me.
Could Apple engineer this in hardware and software in the future if it wanted to? Sure.
Is it a dormant ability in the previous phones that it just decided that it wanted to not turn on in iOS? No.
Could they turn on the chip in the 5 through 6s in software? Sure -- but with no antenna, and no way to add one in hardware retroactively, it wouldn't do anything.
That's not my understanding nor what I've seen reported elsewhere. I fully understand that all FM compatibility will cell phones requires an antenna and that all phones up to this point use the headphones attached through the headphone jack to provide that antenna. I'm also fully aware that Apple increasingly is engineering their own custom chips beyond the CPU and now GPU and as part of that process, they don't want to include this ability in those chips when they find a way to move past Intel and Qualcomm as an example. Basically we don't have the ability via schematics on the headphone port iPhones to know whether Apple is capable of turning on the FM chip or just digging in their heels. I'm suggesting the equipment exists and Apple just doesn't want to do it. I mentioned the examples of Apple being unwilling to acknowledge clear hardware differences and differences in capabilities in hardware between vendors for the iPhone. The most recent example was Quallcomm vs Intel but prior examples involved CPU's being sourced from difference sources, screens, etc. Apple's official word isn't good enough. We've seen this capability blocked via software on Android phones and even then the vendors haven't been very eager to provide access. For example on the Samsung phones there had to be an update and then people had to gain access via third party app.
All that said, I think it appropriate to mandate this ability going forward and Apple should be included in that mandate. I understand we should all be prepared. However there are times when we aren't at home with all our goodies. I think of my own son right now who is of that younger generation. He doesn't even seem to worry much about driving and even seems to enjoy taking public transit buses to university. If something were to go down in terms of an earthquake in California. He can't go to his car and turn on the radio. What he will have on him is his phone and this is true of lots of people. Right now it is is merely an urging. I would recommend it be a mandate.
WTF. Since when the heck did you start wanting a nanny state?
I have no ideal what you are talking about. Are you trolling?
Because having the government force companies and people to do stuff because "think of the children" is a liberal thing.
I don't really care either way but it seems silly to believe he's any safer or better prepared because he has a radio so FEMA might be able to tell him "hey, there's been an earthquake"...
Sorry, you can delete if you like. It's just annoying when folks want to mandate Apple do something that likely doesn't help much but will make iPhones worse battery and size wise.
This has never been a switch to throw, regardless of what the FCC chairman says.
I know this has been noted but to me it doesn’t pass the smell test. Every other phone with the same chips and a headphone jack (we are talking iPhone 6S and below) has the FM ability and Apple doesn’t? We’ve seen Apple do this in a number of areas. RIght now they intentionally throttle down the Qualcomm chip so that it matches the performance of the Intel chip as an example. People know the capabilities of the chips and what they can and can’t do but Apple does what they do too.
Okay, one more time. There are physics at work, here.
Having FM compatibility in a chip does not mean that the support equipment for same chip is included. The modem chip in the 5 to 6s chip itself is not an antenna, and prior phones don't have an FM-capable modem at all. There would have to be support equipment inside the phone for a headphone antenna.
That support equipment does not exist. Therefore, there is no software switch to throw to make this work, and Pai could have sent an intern into the FCC documents to see if this was possible. Why he didn't is a mystery to me.
Could Apple engineer this in hardware and software in the future if it wanted to? Sure.
Is it a dormant ability in the previous phones that it just decided that it wanted to not turn on in iOS? No.
Could they turn on the chip in the 5 through 6s in software? Sure -- but with no antenna, and no way to add one in hardware retroactively, it wouldn't do anything.
That's not my understanding nor what I've seen reported elsewhere. I fully understand that all FM compatibility will cell phones requires an antenna and that all phones up to this point use the headphones attached through the headphone jack to provide that antenna. I'm also fully aware that Apple increasingly is engineering their own custom chips beyond the CPU and now GPU and as part of that process, they don't want to include this ability in those chips when they find a way to move past Intel and Qualcomm as an example. Basically we don't have the ability via schematics on the headphone port iPhones to know whether Apple is capable of turning on the FM chip or just digging in their heels. I'm suggesting the equipment exists and Apple just doesn't want to do it. I mentioned the examples of Apple being unwilling to acknowledge clear hardware differences and differences in capabilities in hardware between vendors for the iPhone. The most recent example was Quallcomm vs Intel but prior examples involved CPU's being sourced from difference sources, screens, etc. Apple's official word isn't good enough. We've seen this capability blocked via software on Android phones and even then the vendors haven't been very eager to provide access. For example on the Samsung phones there had to be an update and then people had to gain access via third party app.
All that said, I think it appropriate to mandate this ability going forward and Apple should be included in that mandate. I understand we should all be prepared. However there are times when we aren't at home with all our goodies. I think of my own son right now who is of that younger generation. He doesn't even seem to worry much about driving and even seems to enjoy taking public transit buses to university. If something were to go down in terms of an earthquake in California. He can't go to his car and turn on the radio. What he will have on him is his phone and this is true of lots of people. Right now it is is merely an urging. I would recommend it be a mandate.
WTF. Since when the heck did you start wanting a nanny state?
I have no ideal what you are talking about. Are you trolling?
Because having the government force companies and people to do stuff because "think of the children" is a liberal thing.
I don't really care either way but it seems silly to believe he's any safer or better prepared because he has a radio so FEMA might be able to tell him "hey, there's been an earthquake"...
I addressed this much earlier. The radio spectrum is owned by the public and is regulated in every imaginable manner. It isn't some case that "Oh gee this FM radio thing would be a government intrusion on private industry." Every device is tested, regulated, etc. Being allowed to broadcast is regulated, licensed, etc. Basically there isn't a way around this regulation. Every radio signal an iPhone receives or sends is government regulated period. There's no sliding scale.
When people talk about prepping and not needing as much government intervention they'll say things like they have food stores, a generator, firearms, etc. No one is going to set up a cell tower or an FM transmitter and just bypass the government control in this area to avoid having the government having to do something for them or bypass this with their own preparation.
Plus in all honestly, aside from Apple it almost seems like it is as much work to take the capability out as it is to put it in. FM radio capability isn't some high dollar high end feature for a cell phone. Given how it is a feature on the cheapest cell phones, removing it is more money grab than some hardship.
So yes, mandate it. Just like we mandate every other aspect of the RF spectrum and control what can access it, who can broadcast on it, etc.
Sorry, you can delete if you like. It's just annoying when folks want to mandate Apple do something that likely doesn't help much but will make iPhones worse battery and size wise.
We're good right now. I don't want it to escalate.
Comments
You won't find the antenna support in hardware, because it isn't there.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4064163-FOIA-case-vs-FBI-phone-unlock.html
I don't really care either way but it seems silly to believe he's any safer or better prepared because he has a radio so FEMA might be able to tell him "hey, there's been an earthquake"...
When people talk about prepping and not needing as much government intervention they'll say things like they have food stores, a generator, firearms, etc. No one is going to set up a cell tower or an FM transmitter and just bypass the government control in this area to avoid having the government having to do something for them or bypass this with their own preparation.
Plus in all honestly, aside from Apple it almost seems like it is as much work to take the capability out as it is to put it in. FM radio capability isn't some high dollar high end feature for a cell phone. Given how it is a feature on the cheapest cell phones, removing it is more money grab than some hardship.
So yes, mandate it. Just like we mandate every other aspect of the RF spectrum and control what can access it, who can broadcast on it, etc.