Apple releases macOS 10.13 High Sierra with APFS, Metal 2, new Safari, Photos improvements...

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  • Reply 81 of 97
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member
    troberts said:
    Just my luck. The day I decide to update to macOS Sierra before macOS High Sierra is released and hope EVE Online still works at least as well as it does now on OS X El Capitan, macOS High Sierra gets released. Is there a way to get macOS Sierra? If my hard drive failed or I swapped it for an SSD and I wanted to stay on macOS Sierra, I would think there is a way to do it.
    Eric_WVGG said:
    You could use Carbon Copy Cloner to clone your existing HD to an external HD or SSD, upgrade your internal to High Sierra, and boot to the external device using Target Mode. (also, yes, you can get Sierra and many older releases off the app store. Google "make Sierra install USB" for downloading instructions.)

    I make a clone using CCC just prior to updating to a new point version, let alone major release, then at least I can rollback fairly easily if I need to. Will be doing the same for HS, although I think I'll wait til 10.13.1 (and as I've mentioned previously I'll be keeping an ElCap partition locally for running legacy FCS apps).

    If you've downloaded a previous OS via the app store, you can re-download it at any time. I downloaded Sierra last weekend just for that purpose!
  • Reply 82 of 97
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,372member
    netrox said:
    How do I remove all the useless "programs" and add "Photoshop" in Photo's "Edit with..." context menu? It's ridiculous that I cannot figure out. There is no "always open with this app" option.
    Programs that are shown in Photos "Edit with..." context menu are assigned (or omitted) from Systems Preferences / Extensions form. I assume that the programs that extend Photos must register somehow with the Extensions interface - so if the programs you want to be available are not shown I assume you'd have to contact the program vendor to see if they are participating in the extension model.

    On my Sierra and High Sierra machines Affinity, Pixelmator, Noiseless, Acorn, Markup, and Skitch are all available as extensions to Photos. I don't have Photoshop, but I do appreciate having these 3rd party extensions available for use from within Photos. Good luck.


    fastasleep
  • Reply 83 of 97
    sennensennen Posts: 1,472member
    melgross said:
    jeff_cook said:
    melgross said:
    I don’t get what the rush is for some people here. It’s much better to wait at least a couple of days. Do you guys really need to feel as though you’re first? Is this like posting “first” with no other content?
    what you hope to accomplish with this post? 
    Simply stating the truth. What did you hope to accomplish with yours?

    And here we are! One of the reasons why we should wait a bit, instead of rushing into things. Right here on this site. Isn’t that funny?

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/09/25/macos-high-sierra-vulnerability-may-let-unsigned-apps-steal-keychain-logins-in-plaintext
    Here's another

    https://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2017/20170917_0835-macOS-HighSierra-APFS.html
    MPG's made a few incorrect assumptions about High Sierra and APFS.

    During the betas, it was SOME Fusion Drives that didn't function with APFS. So, for now, they ALL won't be converted. Apple said NOTHING about no performance gain on the drives at all, so where they got that, I have no idea.

    Additionally, APFS isn't based on drive, but on volume -- which they'd have known if they did more than five minutes of testing. A single DRIVE can have multiple partitions, with APFS on some, none, or all of them. A Bootcamp partition will be left alone. However, Windows has no idea what APFS is, and as such, won't read that partition.

    I will agree that the tech notes are poorly crafted. I disagree that they weren't "reviewed by engineers" as the notes appear to have been written by one -- and not by an actual writer.

    But, this piece is overall pretty shoddy work from the normally good MPG.
    Yeah, MPG has some good info most of the time, but is often cranky and OTT/hyperbolic when he's not happy about something.
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 84 of 97
    sennen said:
    melgross said:
    jeff_cook said:
    melgross said:
    I don’t get what the rush is for some people here. It’s much better to wait at least a couple of days. Do you guys really need to feel as though you’re first? Is this like posting “first” with no other content?
    what you hope to accomplish with this post? 
    Simply stating the truth. What did you hope to accomplish with yours?

    And here we are! One of the reasons why we should wait a bit, instead of rushing into things. Right here on this site. Isn’t that funny?

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/09/25/macos-high-sierra-vulnerability-may-let-unsigned-apps-steal-keychain-logins-in-plaintext
    Here's another

    https://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2017/20170917_0835-macOS-HighSierra-APFS.html
    MPG's made a few incorrect assumptions about High Sierra and APFS.

    During the betas, it was SOME Fusion Drives that didn't function with APFS. So, for now, they ALL won't be converted. Apple said NOTHING about no performance gain on the drives at all, so where they got that, I have no idea.

    Additionally, APFS isn't based on drive, but on volume -- which they'd have known if they did more than five minutes of testing. A single DRIVE can have multiple partitions, with APFS on some, none, or all of them. A Bootcamp partition will be left alone. However, Windows has no idea what APFS is, and as such, won't read that partition.

    I will agree that the tech notes are poorly crafted. I disagree that they weren't "reviewed by engineers" as the notes appear to have been written by one -- and not by an actual writer.

    But, this piece is overall pretty shoddy work from the normally good MPG.
    Yeah, MPG has some good info most of the time, but is often cranky and OTT/hyperbolic when he's not happy about something.
    He hasn't been happy about much lately.  His MO for the last 2 to 3 years is that Apple's software quality is rotting at the Core.
  • Reply 85 of 97
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,372member
    With respect to software quality ... High Sierra has been the single most problematic OSX/macOS upgrade I’ve every encountered from Apple. I have a late 2102 iMac 27 with a 3TB Fusion drive and nothing I’ve tried so far has allowed me to get High Sierra installed on the machine.  It just flat ass doesn’t want to install whether I try safe mode, bootable USB thumb drive, installing from internet recovery mode, installing from the App Store, etc. There’s something seriously wrong with this macOS version when it comes to this particular machine. I have two other machines, one full SSD and the other full HDD, and they work fine. But the combination in question continues to fail miserably and makes me wonder whether Apple ever tested with this particular combination. At this point I’d have to speculate that there are some fairly common Mac combinations out there that are supposedly compatible with High Sierra that will never be able to run it until Apple gets someone investigating these issues. I have to question whether Apple is getting much bang for the lengthy beta testing cycle that they conducted for High Sierra. It’s not the APFS issue either because the installer never even gets to the point where it does the conversion or queries for the conversion. Not good.
  • Reply 86 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    melgross said:

    melgross said:
    I don’t get what the rush is for some people here. It’s much better to wait at least a couple of days. Do you guys really need to feel as though you’re first? Is this like posting “first” with no other content?
    Nice straw man you've constructed there.

    No, it's just about not being afraid of new things, secure in the knowledge that my data is redundant. Why would I wait a few days when I can start adding value today? Strange way to live.
    Please! Do you even know what that word means? Yes, downloading a major OS release has dangers for people. Are you pretending, to yourself, that it’s not true?
    I know exactly what straw man means -- and you've constructed one, claiming that those upgrading today do it to "feel as though you're first". Pretty clear.

    As far as dangers, as I also clearly said, if you have a proper data redundancy plan in place there is little to be worried about. For the exact same reason I consider upgrading iOS versions to be completely harmless...my data is always protected.

    We aren't talking about "people", you asked why we here in this forum upgrade when it's possible to do so. So the answer is clear -- added value with minimal risk.
    Well, since that’s not a straw man argument, I doubt you do know. I didn’t ask why people upgrade when it’s possible to do so. I asked why there are some people upgrade immediately, even though expert advice is to wait to find out what problems may be present, and whether they will be affected. The peopl who upgrade so early usually are the ones who come here, and other places, and excitedly announce that they’re doing it right now, as though it’s some big deal.
  • Reply 87 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member


    melgross said:
    jeff_cook said:
    melgross said:
    I don’t get what the rush is for some people here. It’s much better to wait at least a couple of days. Do you guys really need to feel as though you’re first? Is this like posting “first” with no other content?
    what you hope to accomplish with this post? 
    Simply stating the truth. What did you hope to accomplish with yours?

    And here we are! One of the reasons why we should wait a bit, instead of rushing into things. Right here on this site. Isn’t that funny?

    http://appleinsider.com/articles/17/09/25/macos-high-sierra-vulnerability-may-let-unsigned-apps-steal-keychain-logins-in-plaintext
    No, that isn't ironic or remarkable at all -- it's a proof-of-concept exploit that requires you do give it specific security manual overrides to work. Why would I do that? How is such an exploit different than exploits that existed on legacy versions of macOS? Are you waiting for a version of macOS with no possible exploits?

    This isn't striking me as a rational fear.

    So far 10.13 is running awesome for me. I really like the new Safari features in particular, like remembering the zoom level per site, and not auto-playing annoying videos on sites like Macworld or CNN. My only complaints so far -- 1) old Siri voice, 2) Siri still can't do HomeKit scenes. Not understanding the disconnect from iOS/tvOS/watchOS on that.
    Such an irrational fear, that Apple isn’t bothering to fix it. Oh, wait, they are.
  • Reply 88 of 97
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,861administrator
    dewme said:
    With respect to software quality ... High Sierra has been the single most problematic OSX/macOS upgrade I’ve every encountered from Apple. I have a late 2102 iMac 27 with a 3TB Fusion drive and nothing I’ve tried so far has allowed me to get High Sierra installed on the machine.  It just flat ass doesn’t want to install whether I try safe mode, bootable USB thumb drive, installing from internet recovery mode, installing from the App Store, etc. There’s something seriously wrong with this macOS version when it comes to this particular machine. I have two other machines, one full SSD and the other full HDD, and they work fine. But the combination in question continues to fail miserably and makes me wonder whether Apple ever tested with this particular combination. At this point I’d have to speculate that there are some fairly common Mac combinations out there that are supposedly compatible with High Sierra that will never be able to run it until Apple gets someone investigating these issues. I have to question whether Apple is getting much bang for the lengthy beta testing cycle that they conducted for High Sierra. It’s not the APFS issue either because the installer never even gets to the point where it does the conversion or queries for the conversion. Not good.
    Did you run the betas at all on your iMac?
  • Reply 89 of 97
    StephenWC said:
    Has anyone installed High Sierra yet with Parallels 13 on a Macbook Pro? At this point I am very reluctant to upgrade on my main production machine.
    I installed Parallels 13 before upgrading to High Sierra. My Windows 10 VM seems to work fine : with folder sharing, network access, video acceleration and sound. I did not try USB device sharing but hardly see how it could fail. Another user here has no problem, it seems, with his Linux VM.
  • Reply 90 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Another reason to wait a few days before upgrading as I, and others, suggest:

    https://www.dpreview.com/news/0753180232/your-wacom-tablet-won-t-work-with-macos-high-sierra-until-late-october

    We see problems like this emerging the first first few days after release. It happens all the time. There could be other problems not found, or reporte upon yet.

    seriously, it takes a year for a new version to come out. A few more days doesn’t add much to that, and impatience isn’t a virtue.
  • Reply 91 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    troberts said:
    melgross said:
    troberts said:
    Just my luck. The day I decide to update to macOS Sierra before macOS High Sierra is released and hope EVE Online still works at least as well as it does now on OS X El Capitan, macOS High Sierra gets released.

    Is there a way to get macOS Sierra? If my hard drive failed or I swapped it for an SSD and I wanted to stay on macOS Sierra, I would think there is a way to do it.

    A number of older OSs are still up on their site.
    Where do I go to get macOS Sierra? When I go the the App Store and type "macOS Sierra" the only OS that shows is macOS High Sierra.
    It’s hard to find. It’s available through the App Store for certain, but getting past the “upgrade to High Sierra” takes some work.
  • Reply 92 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    smarky said:
    Ugh.. this is such a poor release, I really wish Apple would double down on Mac OS (Which still wouldn't be putting in that much effort), maybe hire some engineers to actually work on MacOS, I know it's not a priority for them, but they have a lot of resources and it's still an important business for the brand.

    Instead all we get are incredibly small revisions each release. I get the need for some clean up work but that is all we keep getting now, Apple is even using the naming schemes to show this, it's like snow snow snow leopard. When are we going to get an actual real OS update? I hope it's because the real team are busy working on something big, else what are they doing?

    I thought after the previous release we were due for a big release and then what gets announced is even less.

    The biggest update in this OS is the file system and that was announced as a Sierra feature that was supposed to come in an update, not in this version of the OS, so that's a bit of a joke, the biggest thing about this update is something they failed to ship on time from the previous release and really? What does it mean for the end user, not much. 
    This is a very big release. It’s just not one of those big releases that the user sees.

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/09/macos-10-13-high-sierra-the-ars-technica-review/

  • Reply 93 of 97
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    jeff_cook said:
    melgross said:
    jeff_cook said:
    melgross said:
    I don’t get what the rush is for some people here. It’s much better to wait at least a couple of days. Do you guys really need to feel as though you’re first? Is this like posting “first” with no other content?
    what you hope to accomplish with this post? 
    Simply stating the truth. What did you hope to accomplish with yours?

    I'm here to get answers to questions. I think people are going to do what they want to do regardless of your advice when it is unsolicited.  
    It’s too bad. Not everyone here is here to “just” get answers. You can go to apple for that. We’re here to have a wide ranging discussion about these articles, and anything related to them. When some people make unsolicited comments about being “first”, or some other comment about downloading without thinking, it’s appropiate to remind people that it isn’t a good idea.

    thats whether you like it or not.
    edited September 2017
  • Reply 94 of 97
    dewmedewme Posts: 5,372member
    dewme said:
    With respect to software quality ... High Sierra has been the single most problematic OSX/macOS upgrade I’ve every encountered from Apple. I have a late 2102 iMac 27 with a 3TB Fusion drive and nothing I’ve tried so far has allowed me to get High Sierra installed on the machine.  It just flat ass doesn’t want to install whether I try safe mode, bootable USB thumb drive, installing from internet recovery mode, installing from the App Store, etc. There’s something seriously wrong with this macOS version when it comes to this particular machine. I have two other machines, one full SSD and the other full HDD, and they work fine. But the combination in question continues to fail miserably and makes me wonder whether Apple ever tested with this particular combination. At this point I’d have to speculate that there are some fairly common Mac combinations out there that are supposedly compatible with High Sierra that will never be able to run it until Apple gets someone investigating these issues. I have to question whether Apple is getting much bang for the lengthy beta testing cycle that they conducted for High Sierra. It’s not the APFS issue either because the installer never even gets to the point where it does the conversion or queries for the conversion. Not good.
    Did you run the betas at all on your iMac?
    No, they would not install and always crashed at various points in the installation process. I sent the install error logs to Apple. When I search online with the first reported error string I see other people who have encountered the same failure, which is why I’ve been trying various workarounds. Attempting to install from internet recovery mode gets the furthest but after nearly an hour of churning through the installation process it suddenly ends with a very vague error and “please try installaing again.” Really? This is the best advice Apple’s crack programmers can provide for their customers? I’d expect this from Microsoft, but Apple, not so much. Too bad.    
  • Reply 95 of 97
    anomeanome Posts: 1,533member
    StephenWC said:
    Has anyone installed High Sierra yet with Parallels 13 on a Macbook Pro? At this point I am very reluctant to upgrade on my main production machine.
    I installed Parallels 13 before upgrading to High Sierra. My Windows 10 VM seems to work fine : with folder sharing, network access, video acceleration and sound. I did not try USB device sharing but hardly see how it could fail. Another user here has no problem, it seems, with his Linux VM.
    The Fedora VM I mentioned earlier was working with USB device sharing. Seems to be fine.
  • Reply 96 of 97
    edrededred Posts: 57member
    OK, installed and humming along, and my verdict after 30 minutes?

    THIS THING IS FAST!!!!!!


    The UI is definitely faster.
  • Reply 97 of 97
    As far as I'm concerned High Sierra has fixed problems caused by Sierra. 
    My mid-2011 iMac was running hot for no reason, with the fans whirring away when there seemed to be little call on the processor. It is now running normally.
    My 4TB WD 'My Book' external drive kept dropping out causing crashes of iPhoto and iMovie and system crashes requiring a re-boot, went through a whole range of fixes with an Apple engineer including re-installing the software, resetting the PRAM, ditching prefs, to no avail. The only work around was to log out in between sessions but it still disconnected occasionally when I was active. It is now working fine and uninterrupted by disconnections. At this stage it's looking very much like these drive problems were caused by the previous OS.
    So running faster, staying cooler and not experiencing the problems - I can understand folks being reluctant to update after what happened to me with Sierra but I do believe this is a decent upgrade.





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