Nice article, DED. This gives some food for thought. Admittedly there are many people (Android fans) out there who are not really happy with the new Google Pixels.
Customizable true multitasking no big bezels or ugly notch in the screen voice dictation that works front firing stereo speakers innovat design 2k display
DED, your piece has attracted so many ants coming out from their nest.
Yes, I was about to mention that very thing. All these one and two post wonders lurking in the shadows. They’re drawn like moths to a flame. The funniest ones are those demanding an unbiased article. Of course the only unbiased articles in their opinion are the ones that trash Apple mercilessly.
Customizable true multitasking no big bezels or ugly notch in the screen voice dictation that works front firing stereo speakers innovat design 2k display
“Innovat design” Copying iPhone is innovative?
”2k Display”
SMFH. People this stupid shouldn’t be allowed online.
I don't know what it is with Google's Insane Prices on their new hardware. What are you getting? They're trying to copy and be more like Apple and it really hasn't worked.
I just really find it funny that Google just 1 year ago on last models phones where bashing APple for not having a Headphone jack, and now here they are with no headphone jack. They have a Adapter that's more then DOUBLE the price of Apple's at $20, to Apple's $9. Worse they don't even include some headphones. I mean really??? A so called Premium phone, and all they do is throw in a over priced Adapter. HAHAHAHAHA You're paying more for less. What happened in this new warped world where Google's hardware costs are worse then Apple?
The phone stuff. The Cromebook is priced where you might as well buy a computer with a so called full OS. People talked about the cost of Apple's HomePod at $350, then here's google with their $400 version.
I really don't get what's going on with Google. Who's really going to buy this over priced stuff from Google? They're trying to make Android out to be a Premium device after all this time of being advertised as the much cheaper priced phones over Apple's over priced stuff, and yet look at them now. Same price or more for less. I'm really confused with what Google is trying to do.
You're talking about Daniel's article being fake? I mean, there's a lot of spin, fanboyism and some really outdated sources, but I wouldn't call it fake news.
I mean the news that Google introduced Pixel as designed by Google and manufactured by HTC exactly like it copied from Apple's lead. Honestly if Google can designed Pixel solely by itself like Apple designed the iPhone., then why does Google need to buy the two thousand design engineers from HTC?
I don't know what it is with Google's Insane Prices on their new hardware.
I don't see there prices as insane. I'd bet they get even less profit per unit than Apple does because they lack nearly all, if not all, of the benefits Apple has in this market. Looking at a single metric, think about how many hundreds of millions of iPhone 8s Apple will sell over the next several years compared to Google's offerings. Then consider how tech created on nearly all of Apple's HW can easily find its way into other HW. This is a huge financial benefit for Apple that no one can compete with
Strictly speaking, none of the above is industrial design, albeit the industrial design of the external package has a great influence on these circuit board designs, especially at Apple.
There are pros and cons to both the Moto X and Apple circuit board designs. TL;DR—in my opinion, they reflect their companies' respective economic situations, i.e., Apple can afford to use a smaller circuit board because it's making a premium-tier product with a high profit margin, and because that product sells in high volume.
Moto X Pros:
(Mostly) single-sided. The vast majority of the parts can be attached to the board in a single pass through placement and reflow (soldering), putting less thermal stress on the components. It also provides additional volume for the battery under the circuit board and better physical isolation of RF-sensitive circuit blocks.
Slightly more surface area, even given the single side used for most parts. This permits the use of larger and easier to place—and hence, cheaper—components. It could also act as a larger heat sink for heat dissipation.
Fewer board layers. A number are still needed to accommodate pinout from high pin density parts like the Snapdragon, but there's more area to work with on each layer to route traces. And fewer layers make for cheaper panels.
Good balance of the phone in the hand is easier to achieve since the mass of the battery and circuit board are more evenly distributed across the surface of the phone.
Moto X Cons:
Fewer circuit boards per panel. This means a greater number of circuit board panels must be processed to build an equivalent number of circuit boards, which could reduce factory throughput. The effect this has on price per circuit board is unclear without knowing the exact stack-up of the Motorola and Apple boards.
iPhone Pros:
Double-sided panel with tightly packed components enables an incredibly small circuit board. More boards per panel means better factory throughput. The narrower the board, the more volume that's available for the battery, too.
iPhone Cons:
Doubled-sided. Two major passes through component placement as well as reflow required.
Intra-board trace layout must be a nightmare. There are hundreds of traces coming out from the pins of the A11 alone which much be routed to memory, SIM, Lightning connector, cameras, display, Touch ID, etc. This also complicates resolving RF desense issues during development (as in, "Why can't you just move that part/trace/via over there?")
More board layers to accommodate the traces for those high pin density components like the A11. More layers equals higher cost circuit board panels.
High part density and small components necessitate high-precision solder masking and part placement, i.e., newer, more expensive factory equipment. Heat dissipation also becomes more of an issue.
Phone balancing becomes trickier with the circuit board and the battery side-by-side.
Hi guys. Long time Android user. Was apple guy long ago until a few bad products. "Fool me once...". Anyway, I guess I hold grudges but have never had desire to come back. When everything is working (applies to both Apple and Android) the products are so good there really just is no discernable difference in everyday life for the average user. Apple's processor is pretty impressive, but never once have I cursed my Google phone for being slow or really thought "omg, this is taking forever". If we are being honest, you gotta admit google does plenty of things right, even better (whoa, whoa....at times of course, I don't want go overboard and forget where I am lol)
In the end, it's a thousand dollars, who really cares. We are all surfing the same internet, playing on apps, taking pics, etc. I started reading the article because i just pre ordered a pixel 2 xl panda and, regardless of whatever shortcomings it might have, am pretty stoked. I stopped reading after the first few paragraphs and as I scrolled down to see that the article goes on, and on, and on.....I am just sort of shocked that someone felt passionately enough to write this sermon and disappointed in myself for falling victim to clickbait (arguably trolling) to the point I decided to create an account. Ok, spent long enough on this. We can still be friends guys. Buy what you want, what makes you happy. It's not a zero sum game, my happiness with Nexus/pixel phones and Google's ecosystem in no way detracts from your happiness with Apple and vice versa. Can't we all just get along?
I have the pixel XL and am considering the XL 2...my partner has the iPhone 7 plus and we would both tell you that my pixel XL is faster in every regards, the camera on the pixel is better, the pixel charges faster and the battery lasts WAY longer...there is no way my partner is getting the iPhone 8, he is considering the X...and btw, Siri sucks so bad compared to the Google Assistant
Is there a reason this article is listed as a feature and not an editorial? The paragraph below isn’t fact it’s opinion. In fact the whole article feels like a let’s dump on Google because it will make people here feel good. If these phones are DOA and so inferior to iPhone why give them so much ink?
That's the prices Google has set for its pedestrian Pixel 2 XL, a phone that lacks the sophisticated hardware, the serious software, the enterprise credibility and the attractive design of an iPhone 8 Plus. Pixel 2 XL, along with its mismatched Pixel 2 built by HTC, look like a couple of plastic, abandoned refrigerators, not sleek smartphones.
Go bang your angry fists at the Verge, where this is considered "news"
Nilay Patel is right. And is consistent in Criticizing Google like he did Apple. The author is descending to "Donald Trump" tweet level in attacking other journalists who have tested the Pixel 2 and liked it. Did DED actually test and use the Pixel 2/2XL ? Or just mash up the most convenient spec comparisons available. I've seen and heard other tech writers pointing out that Apple's A11 chip shellacks Qualcomm.
Some people may happily prefer the camera and oled screen of the Pixel 2 to the iPhone 8's LCD screen, but we know they won't sell anoywhere near as many as Apple. I'll keep my iPhone 7Plus ( no battery problems there ) while wishing I finally had a SIRI that worked as good as Alexa or Google Assistant.
I will say this while the iPhone 6/6S/7 design was disappointing. The Pixel 2 XL gets a C- and the regular Pixel 2 is F. their Blue is Barf Blue.
I have the pixel XL and am considering the XL 2...my partner has the iPhone 7 plus and we would both tell you that my pixel XL is faster in every regards, the camera on the pixel is better, the pixel charges faster and the battery lasts WAY longer...there is no way my partner is getting the iPhone 8, he is considering the X...and btw, Siri sucks so bad compared to the Google Assistant
All just my opinion of course
I didn't see anything in the article to indicate DED actually tried out the Pixel 2 and 2XL. I think he's just upset about their positive press. The way Donald trump doesn't like to hear that general Kelly is the adult in the White House. DED can write some great articles. Some may love this one but I found it disappointing.
I don't want to discuss the rest of the articel as I mostly disagree, but LOL. I'm just as angry on google as on apple for removing the headphone jack. It's just a big f%!k you in the face of every audiophile. That's why I will probably get the V30.
Sorry to hear facts ruin your day. Seriously, you’ve offered no compelling arguments to the contrary cited by facts...neither has Gatorguy. But both whining about an article loaded with facts.
Typical troll tactic. The essence of FUD — cast doubt on the conclusions and facts, but provide nothing concrete to the contrary, only whispers of doubt....
It's an article, that at least printed in the forums, is laden with multiple cut and paste repeats and was to the point that it was tl;dr after the 5th repeated paragraph for this Apple fan.
Seriously needed an editor to cut down on the excessive length and repetitive errors.
Like most DED articles it started well and ended as a regurgitation of epic proportions.
He forgot the most important feature of all: EXPLODING BATTERIES!!! At a minimum, the expanding battery could be a useful tool for changing a flat. No jack needed!
I have the pixel XL and am considering the XL 2...my partner has the iPhone 7 plus and we would both tell you that my pixel XL is faster in every regards, the camera on the pixel is better, the pixel charges faster and the battery lasts WAY longer...there is no way my partner is getting the iPhone 8, he is considering the X...and btw, Siri sucks so bad compared to the Google Assistant
All just my opinion of course
I didn't see anything in the article to indicate DED actually tried out the Pixel 2 and 2XL. I think he's just upset about their positive press. The way Donald trump doesn't like to hear that general Kelly is the adult in the White House. DED can write some great articles. Some may love this one but I found it disappointing.
I realize you specially signed uo for your single post, but im going to byte on your trollbait.... You are smart enough to know between any headphone / earpiece (is analog), and any processor(is digital), there will be a DAC.. now some old style phones put the DAC just before the nasty 3.5mm (or sometimes 2.5mm) jack plug connector... ( such a jackplug is often an audiophiles second worse nightmare) in a headphone jack-less iPhone 7/8/X the stream is kept digital even through the lightning connector, and the DAC is at the other side, closely coupled to the headphone transducer. Now as any half decent circuit designer knows, the (analog) coupling can really be optimized since the whole analog portion doesn't have to go through a connector, and it can be properly balanced and coupled correctly to the transducer. Personally I liked the jack, because its more convenient, at a pinch i can get super cheap headphones when i forgot my good ones on a trip.. but any audiophile with at least a 3 digit IQ will understand that removing the jack was always an opportunity for them to get better sound, not worse
Comments
true multitasking
no big bezels or ugly notch in the screen
voice dictation that works
front firing stereo speakers
innovat design
2k display
An OS that is a ripoff of iOS is better? No logic.
Funny how the iKnockoff users don’t mind having their privacy and data sold.
“Innovat design”
Copying iPhone is innovative?
”2k Display”
SMFH. People this stupid shouldn’t be allowed online.
I just really find it funny that Google just 1 year ago on last models phones where bashing APple for not having a Headphone jack, and now here they are with no headphone jack. They have a Adapter that's more then DOUBLE the price of Apple's at $20, to Apple's $9. Worse they don't even include some headphones. I mean really??? A so called Premium phone, and all they do is throw in a over priced Adapter. HAHAHAHAHA You're paying more for less. What happened in this new warped world where Google's hardware costs are worse then Apple?
The phone stuff. The Cromebook is priced where you might as well buy a computer with a so called full OS. People talked about the cost of Apple's HomePod at $350, then here's google with their $400 version. I really don't get what's going on with Google. Who's really going to buy this over priced stuff from Google? They're trying to make Android out to be a Premium device after all this time of being advertised as the much cheaper priced phones over Apple's over priced stuff, and yet look at them now. Same price or more for less. I'm really confused with what Google is trying to do.
Moto X Pros:
- (Mostly) single-sided. The vast majority of the parts can be attached to the board in a single pass through placement and reflow (soldering), putting less thermal stress on the components. It also provides additional volume for the battery under the circuit board and better physical isolation of RF-sensitive circuit blocks.
- Slightly more surface area, even given the single side used for most parts. This permits the use of larger and easier to place—and hence, cheaper—components. It could also act as a larger heat sink for heat dissipation.
- Fewer board layers. A number are still needed to accommodate pinout from high pin density parts like the Snapdragon, but there's more area to work with on each layer to route traces. And fewer layers make for cheaper panels.
- Good balance of the phone in the hand is easier to achieve since the mass of the battery and circuit board are more evenly distributed across the surface of the phone.
Moto X Cons:- Fewer circuit boards per panel. This means a greater number of circuit board panels must be processed to build an equivalent number of circuit boards, which could reduce factory throughput. The effect this has on price per circuit board is unclear without knowing the exact stack-up of the Motorola and Apple boards.
iPhone Pros:- Double-sided panel with tightly packed components enables an incredibly small circuit board. More boards per panel means better factory throughput. The narrower the board, the more volume that's available for the battery, too.
iPhone Cons:In the end, it's a thousand dollars, who really cares. We are all surfing the same internet, playing on apps, taking pics, etc. I started reading the article because i just pre ordered a pixel 2 xl panda and, regardless of whatever shortcomings it might have, am pretty stoked. I stopped reading after the first few paragraphs and as I scrolled down to see that the article goes on, and on, and on.....I am just sort of shocked that someone felt passionately enough to write this sermon and disappointed in myself for falling victim to clickbait (arguably trolling) to the point I decided to create an account. Ok, spent long enough on this. We can still be friends guys. Buy what you want, what makes you happy. It's not a zero sum game, my happiness with Nexus/pixel phones and Google's ecosystem in no way detracts from your happiness with Apple and vice versa. Can't we all just get along?
All just my opinion of course
Some people may happily prefer the camera and oled screen of the Pixel 2 to the iPhone 8's LCD screen, but we know they won't sell anoywhere near as many as Apple. I'll keep my iPhone 7Plus ( no battery problems there ) while wishing I finally had a SIRI that worked as good as Alexa or Google Assistant.
I will say this while the iPhone 6/6S/7 design was disappointing. The Pixel 2 XL gets a C- and the regular Pixel 2 is F. their Blue is Barf Blue.
LOL. I'm just as angry on google as on apple for removing the headphone jack.
It's just a big f%!k you in the face of every audiophile.
That's why I will probably get the V30.
Android forever✌
Seriously needed an editor to cut down on the excessive length and repetitive errors.
Like most DED articles it started well and ended as a regurgitation of epic proportions.
You are smart enough to know between any headphone / earpiece (is analog), and any processor(is digital), there will be a DAC..
now some old style phones put the DAC just before the nasty 3.5mm (or sometimes 2.5mm) jack plug connector... ( such a jackplug is often an audiophiles second worse nightmare)
in a headphone jack-less iPhone 7/8/X the stream is kept digital even through the lightning connector, and the DAC is at the other side, closely coupled to the headphone transducer.
Now as any half decent circuit designer knows, the (analog) coupling can really be optimized since the whole analog portion doesn't have to go through a connector, and it can be properly balanced and coupled correctly to the transducer.
Personally I liked the jack, because its more convenient, at a pinch i can get super cheap headphones when i forgot my good ones on a trip..
but any audiophile with at least a 3 digit IQ will understand that removing the jack was always an opportunity for them to get better sound, not worse