I'd love my mac Mini a lot more if it was easier to swap out the internal HD and RAM ... jeez what a PITA on my late 2012 i5, 4GB RAM model. I use it as a headless a server for Plex and Home sharing. It is soooo (f****g) slow I have to upgrade something. I don't mean its serving operations, it works fine, I mean doing anything on it directly. I can go for coffee while waiting for it to open System Preference for example. What have folks found to be the best bang for the buck, SSD or RAM or both?
Buy an external Thunderbolt SSD Install macOS on it and make it your boot drive. Make your internal drive your storage drive for Plex files.
I received an email with a survey a few weeks back. It was all about the 2012 mini I had bought right after the 2014s were out. It asked a lot of questions about what I liked, if I was still using it, what could they do better, that kind of stuff. At the end they asked if I had any other comments and I made clear that expandability was a must in any future purchase. Decent non-mobile processor, upgradable ram and replacable hard drives were all emphasized as must-haves. I hope Apple got a lot of responses like mine, and listens to them.
What have folks found to be the best bang for the buck, SSD or RAM or both?
Both. But the SSD makes the biggest difference by a longshot. And since the mini has an extra drive bay you can install an SSD as the main/startup drive and keep the HDD for storage. Works beautifully on my 2012 i7.
The problem, at least from previous experience, is that MBPs don't run all that well like that and get crazy-noisy. I haven't owned a quad-core Mini, but the Mini I have owned have been fairly quiet. But, yea, in terms of bang-for-buck, you're probably right, if noise isn't a concern.
Oh, a troll... nice (there's a first for everything, Fanboi). But, I meant that quite seriously. Outside some camera improvements and FaceID (which I guess is kind of awesome for the sci-fi crowd?), what was so amazing? Yes, I was especially disappointed being more in need of Mac equipment currently, but I'm also an iOS user. There wasn't much in the way of anything that compelling to me. In fact, most of the moves would actually tend to keep me on my current equipment.
Tim talks crap he knows it too, as he just rattled those words off like on autopilot. Totally ignoring one of the few products you sell for 3 years is not love - unless that's the way he displays love. I've moved to Windows 10 after waiting so long. Release a decent upgraded product and I may come back. No interest in an all-in-ones.
Well, and as mentioned, because it was kind of a downgrade in 2014, it's really closer to 5 years. I've considered Windows, but it's just not there yet (if ever). But, it would certainly open up the hardware possibilities. The problem is around eco-systems. I'm pretty heavily invested in Apple in terms of content, workflows, software, and other equipment. Switching comes at a pretty big cost. That's why I'm so vocal about my displeasure with Apple's moves (so, much so, that fanboys are now calling me a troll!).
I really want Apple to come back... I'm just starting to lose my faith.
What have folks found to be the best bang for the buck, SSD or RAM or both?
Both. But the SSD makes the biggest difference by a longshot. And since the mini has an extra drive bay you can install an SSD as the main/startup drive and keep the HDD for storage. Works beautifully on my 2012 i7.
Yes, unless you're incredibly RAM-starved, the SSD is a game-changer. I also don't mind having my big-storage external. My only problem/complaint is how Spotlight and other Apple services can't seem to deal properly with 'sleeping' external systems. I wonder if that's fixed in High Sierra? Having the system pause for several seconds every time you try to search something or open a save dialog is a royal pain!
I have to say, not doing anything for the Mac mini makes it look like you don't give a crap. What other company can do that and keep their doors open? It should be getting updated every year!!! I'm going too assume Apple is selling the thing for the same price they did 3 years ago. That's typical Apple also. After 3 years, it should be half off.
What other company indeed.
Many PC makers have failed after laser focusing on product upgrades at every opportunity.
Those same companies would discount anything that wasn’t cutting edge to move “obsolete” product.
While I like a deal like the next guy, I’m pretty glad Apple isn’t the company you are comparing it to.
I think Apple is pretty good at keeping their doors open.
May I interest you in a heavily discounted Gateway 2000 PC?
I have to say, not doing anything for the Mac mini makes it look like you don't give a crap. What other company can do that and keep their doors open? It should be getting updated every year!!! I'm going too assume Apple is selling the thing for the same price they did 3 years ago. That's typical Apple also. After 3 years, it should be half off.
Halving it doesn't make any sense. What evidence do you have to support that halving the price would still yield them the same profit per unit? If you don't understand how that would affect upgrading the device years later with a doubling of the price point you can look at people bitching about the iPhone X price point which has clear reasons for being higher priced than the iPhone 8 series, and it's certainly not double the price of the iPhone 8 series.
The bottom line is it's low-yield product that shouldn't get the same treatment as other products or be forced into an update simply because you want a new Mac mini or you want a Mac mini at a massively reduced lower price. Your position on the matter comes down to "does the cost warrant its value to me?" That's it! That goes for me and everyone else, too. This assertion that any company "should" do something because you wish it is ridiculous.
Bullshit. The mini is not the high margin, high volume thing that Apple needs to be successful. Actions speak louder than words. No updates since when? Tim threw a verbal bone and everyone is eating it up.
I'd love my mac Mini a lot more if it was easier to swap out the internal HD and RAM ... jeez what a PITA on my late 2012 i5, 4GB RAM model. I use it as a headless a server for Plex and Home sharing. It is soooo (f****g) slow I have to upgrade something. I don't mean its serving operations, it works fine, I mean doing anything on it directly. I can go for coffee while waiting for it to open System Preference for example. What have folks found to be the best bang for the buck, SSD or RAM or both?
Both would help, the SSD more so. I had a 2009 MacMini (older style case) that was my main machine for almost eight years because I swapped in an SSD and max ram. Check out Other World Computing (aka macsalesDOTcom). Your mini has a 6G sata connector, better CPU, and the ability to take 16GB RAM... all good things. An SSD and some more RAM in that thing would make it feel like new.
Thanks, I'm convinced. I just tried booting from an external SSD and the difference in its responsiveness is amazing. I have a pile of 256 GB SSDs so I can do that right away. Ok over to watch OWC's 'how to dismantle the little bugger' again
Yeah my sister has a 2010 MPB that was behaving the same way - I put in an SSD and 8GB RAM and now the thing is a screamer (relatively speaking). The SSDs make a huge difference in the performance of older Macs.
I hadn't though of introducing macOS on A-series chips by using the Mac mini before, I always thought the first one was going to be the MacBook. But now that I think about it, I can see them introducing both at once. A high end Mac Pro that's modular and a bit boxy, expandable and expensive. And then release the Mac mini along with the MacBook as A series powered devices that can run apps from the Mac App store or others that are compiled for them insanely easily. (I really hope they don't use the A series processors as an excuse to lock down apps to app store purchased ones. It's already a PITA to install a lot of apps these days.)
It must be annoying for Tim to have every reply posted online. No wonder he keeps them short and vague.
“Introducing Mac Mini with A12 processor”
Would you buy it?
But really with iPads and Apple TVs running A-processors and MacBooks/iMacs being more efficient I see Mac Minis becoming less important and becoming a smaller niche.
If it runs macOS without compromise and all Mac apps along with it... YES I would buy it.
Looking at te bigger picture it’s becoming more and more irrelevant.
and iMac Pro is on the website. It just said “coming December”. and is it me or has HomePod hype died down?
I hadn't though of introducing macOS on A-series chips by using the Mac mini before, I always thought the first one was going to be the MacBook. But now that I think about it, I can see them introducing both at once. A high end Mac Pro that's modular and a bit boxy, expandable and expensive. And then release the Mac mini along with the MacBook as A series powered devices that can run apps from the Mac App store or others that are compiled for them insanely easily. (I really hope they don't use the A series processors as an excuse to lock down apps to app store purchased ones. It's already a PITA to install a lot of apps these days.)
1) I don't want a weak ass A-series chip with under 8GiB RAM in Mac, and preferably would like to have at least a 16GiB option, not to mention a much faster and more powerful CPU, GPU, higher thermals than what's found in an iPhone, and possibly even transitions for x86_64 virtualization.
2) Why come to the MacBook first? Personally I find that confusing when there's an entire product line called MacBook Air that could use a refresh with the MacBook look and feel but with macOS running on and Apple-designed ARM SoC that would allow a clear demarcation point between the other Mac products.
It must be annoying for Tim to have every reply posted online. No wonder he keeps them short and vague.
“Introducing Mac Mini with A12 processor”
Would you buy it?
But really with iPads and Apple TVs running A-processors and MacBooks/iMacs being more efficient I see Mac Minis becoming less important and becoming a smaller niche.
If it runs macOS without compromise and all Mac apps along with it... YES I would buy it.
and is it me or has HomePod hype died down?
I'm looking forward to it, but it all depends on whether it will be able to work with the Apple TV as both a speaker system for my TV and as a way of use Siri voice commands to control content without having to press and hold the Siri button on the Apple TV remote.
polymnia said: While I like a deal like the next guy, I’m pretty glad Apple isn’t the company you are comparing it to.
They seem to be headed there quickly, just sans the deal part.
Soli said: The bottom line is it's low-yield product that shouldn't get the same treatment as other products or be forced into an update simply because you want a new Mac mini or you want a Mac mini at a massively reduced lower price. Your position on the matter comes down to "does the cost warrant its value to me?" That's it! That goes for me and everyone else, too. This assertion that any company "should" do something because you wish it is ridiculous.
What does that have to do with anything? So, your argument is that because they sell less of them than the precious iPhone, it should go un-updated for YEARS while the iPhone gets yearly or more updates? Why? Please explain. No, its cost doesn't warrant it's value. The problem is there isn't a good alternative. And, it isn't about wishes, we're just making comments about what the company we're depending on is doing or not doing. If Apple is doing everything perfectly for you, great. They aren't for many of us. I'd rather complain in hopes of getting their attention before I move away and start recommending alternatives.
cgWerks said: What does that have to do with anything? So, your argument is that because they sell less of them than the precious iPhone, it should go un-updated for YEARS while the iPhone gets yearly or more updates? Why? Please explain. No, its cost doesn't warrant it's value. The problem is there isn't a good alternative. And, it isn't about wishes, we're just making comments about what the company we're depending on is doing or not doing. If Apple is doing everything perfectly for you, great. They aren't for many of us. I'd rather complain in hopes of getting their attention before I move away and start recommending alternatives.
1) It has everything to do with why the Mac mini hasn't been updated.
2) It's odd (but not surprising) that you believe the iPhone is the only product Apple updates.
3) Apple dictates their own product line. People aren't buying low-yeild, low profit products so they have less incentive to update. Now you can argue that if they did update more they would get more revenue, and potentially more profit, but it's about finite resources going to things that are less relevant to the company's bottom line (i.e.: wasteful).
4) You can bitch and moan all you want but you just sound like a colossal douche when you tell a company what it should do because you want something.
5) Apple has never done anything "perfect" for me because I don't live in a fantasy world. There are changes and directions I'd take that Apple either doesn't make because my "perfect" product is too esoteric, or because my timeline is further ahead. The difference is you don't see me crying about it because I don't it personally when a company acts in their own best interest and my support for Apple begins and ends when I choose a product that best suits my needs. If another company comes along with something better than I take it. I own them nothing and they own me nothing. One day, hopefully, you will understand that very simple concept about the free market instead of the nightmare that they design around your singular needs.
cali said: and is it me or has HomePod hype died down?
I'm looking forward to it, but it all depends on whether it will be able to work with the Apple TV as both a speaker system for my TV and as a way of use Siri voice commands to control content without having to press and hold the Siri button on the Apple TV remote.
Another product that I don't really get, but once again I seem in the minority of our 'modern' society? I don't want a device in the middle of my home listening, nor do I need to voice-control my toilet paper delivery. And, does anyone care about sound quality anymore?
My wife actually said the other day that she finds stereo sound annoying! That hurt my soul, LOL. I'm not sure she's even ever heard a real relatively decent stereo system in her life. The 25+ yr-old HK receiver I had died before we got married, and nothing we've purchased since (even relatively expensive Kenwood and Yamaha AVR systems haven't come close... I think I'm done with attempting surround sound, too.) and while I've heard good Infinity < 5" speakers in the past, we've had nothing to match them let alone a nice big pair of 15" - 18" woofer, 3-way towers. There's something special about actual bass you can feel vs overblown 'thumping'. We don't even have a respectable pair of speakers anymore (besides the studio monitors I'm selling because they are paired with a too-noisy amp for my office environment). What is the world coming to???
There, I think that was my curmudgeon, get off my grass, rant of the day!
cali said: and is it me or has HomePod hype died down?
I'm looking forward to it, but it all depends on whether it will be able to work with the Apple TV as both a speaker system for my TV and as a way of use Siri voice commands to control content without having to press and hold the Siri button on the Apple TV remote.
Another product that I don't really get, but once again I seem in the minority of our 'modern' society? I don't want a device in the middle of my home listening, nor do I need to voice-control my toilet paper delivery. And, does anyone care about sound quality anymore?
1) Does that mean you disable Hey Siri on other devices? How do you keep other devices from listening to keywords?
2) Do you realize that if Apple wanted to spy on you that they could enable audio recordings at any time? The same goes for video recording and of course watching everything you do on your screens, your keystrokes, and user patterns, and everything that goes through their servers. Listening for a "wake word" doesn't make Siri and Apple more sinister, it's just an irrational fear.
Soli said: 1) It has everything to do with why the Mac mini hasn't been updated.
2) It's odd (but not surprising) that you believe the iPhone is the only product Apple updates.
3) Apple dictates their own product line. People aren't buying low-yeild, low profit products so they have less incentive to update. Now you can argue that if they did update more they would get more revenue, and potentially more profit, but it's about finite resources going to things that are less relevant to the company's bottom line (i.e.: wasteful).
4) You can bitch and moan all you want but you just sound like a colossal douche when you tell a company what it should do because you want something.
5) Apple has never done anything "perfect" for me because I don't live in a fantasy world. There are changes and directions I'd take that Apple either doesn't make because my "perfect" product is too esoteric, or because my timeline is further ahead. The difference is you don't see me crying about it because I don't it personally when a company acts in their own best interest and my support for Apple begins and ends when I choose a product that best suits my needs. If another company comes along with something better than I take it. I own them nothing and they own me nothing. One day, hopefully, you will understand that very simple concept about the free market instead of the nightmare that they design around your singular needs.
How much resources does it take to put a modern chipset in that case and price it properly? For crying out loud, they started a whole silly AI-car project with *HUNDREDS* of people working for it! Don't tell me they couldn't spare the resources to update the Mini or Mac Pro or a number of other products. That's just a lame attempt at justifying their shortsightedness.
The iPhone isn't the only product that they update, but sometimes it seems like it's the only product that really matters to them... because, well, pie-chart. And, in 5 or 10 years when no one cares about the iPhone or it isn't the flavor of the month anymore, then what? Oh, yea, the silly AI-car project, I guess. Or, maybe the Watch or HomePod will hav become a hit by then? Meanwhile, the industry influences and content producers will have moved on, and then what?
Yes, Apple dictates their own product line. That doesn't mean I can't point out stupid. And, it doesn't mean a 30+ year Apple evangelist shouldn't try to call them out in hopes of some course-correction just as fervently as I've recommended their products over that time. Do they owe me something? Legally, no. But, I've effectively sold many $millions of their product and brand over the years, even in their darkest moments... for free. They do owe me something in terms of relationship, yes, just not on paper. I've at least earned the right to bitch and complain!
And, it's not just because I want something. It's because I actually care how things turn out for them. They have had a huge impact on the world, and have made technology a better place to be. I don't want to see that all thrown away and head back into another tech 'dark ages'. I've been through previous ones, and it wan't fun. If Apple just becomes another Windows, we all lose.
re: #5 - Please explain how an up-to-date Mac Mini or Mac Pro is a 'fantasy world'. It has nothing to do with esoteric or further ahead. It has to do with serving your core (and loyal) customers. And, it isn't in their best interest! If I really thought it was, I'd just move on to Windows and say bye-bye to Apple. (BTW, we're economically far from a free market.)
Soli said: 1) Does that mean you disable Hey Siri on other devices? How do you keep other devices from listening to keywords?
2) Do you realize that if Apple wanted to spy on you that they could enable audio recordings at any time? The same goes for video recording and of course watching everything you do on your screens, your keystrokes, and user patterns, and everything that goes through their servers. Listening for a "wake word" doesn't make Siri and Apple more sinister, it's just an irrational fear.
I've got 'Hey Siri' disabled except if the phone is unlocked. I don't use Siri much, and my phone is the only place I use it. This is partly for security, but also partly because I just don't find Siri that useful. The only place I use it is in the car, where it actually doesn't work well without CarPlay (which I don't have).
But, yes, I understand that with microphones all over the place, we're pretty much out of luck if any player isn't honest with us (and, as recent news indicates, lots of non-Apple companies aren't). I still have some faith in Apple in that regard, I suppose. But, I guess it's more that I just don't find a need for such a device, so why add a device that's designed to do it? (Note: while I don't, others do pay attention to such things, and I think if our Macs or iDevices were sending all our keystrokes, audio, video, etc. back to Apple, security experts somewhere would probably report on that. However, with a device designed to send audio to Apple all the time, they might not as easily notice. So, I'm not sure it's completely irrational. Nor, is the idea of being spied on... it's probably more irrational to think you're not being spied on!)
Comments
Install macOS on it and make it your boot drive.
Make your internal drive your storage drive for Plex files.
Oh, a troll... nice (there's a first for everything, Fanboi). But, I meant that quite seriously. Outside some camera improvements and FaceID (which I guess is kind of awesome for the sci-fi crowd?), what was so amazing? Yes, I was especially disappointed being more in need of Mac equipment currently, but I'm also an iOS user. There wasn't much in the way of anything that compelling to me. In fact, most of the moves would actually tend to keep me on my current equipment.
Well, and as mentioned, because it was kind of a downgrade in 2014, it's really closer to 5 years. I've considered Windows, but it's just not there yet (if ever). But, it would certainly open up the hardware possibilities. The problem is around eco-systems. I'm pretty heavily invested in Apple in terms of content, workflows, software, and other equipment. Switching comes at a pretty big cost. That's why I'm so vocal about my displeasure with Apple's moves (so, much so, that fanboys are now calling me a troll!).
I really want Apple to come back... I'm just starting to lose my faith.
See, Apple? Simple. We’ve done all the engineering for you in the comment section of a random website. What could possibly be taking so long?
Many PC makers have failed after laser focusing on product upgrades at every opportunity.
Those same companies would discount anything that wasn’t cutting edge to move “obsolete” product.
While I like a deal like the next guy, I’m pretty glad Apple isn’t the company you are comparing it to.
I think Apple is pretty good at keeping their doors open.
May I interest you in a heavily discounted Gateway 2000 PC?
The bottom line is it's low-yield product that shouldn't get the same treatment as other products or be forced into an update simply because you want a new Mac mini or you want a Mac mini at a massively reduced lower price. Your position on the matter comes down to "does the cost warrant its value to me?" That's it! That goes for me and everyone else, too. This assertion that any company "should" do something because you wish it is ridiculous.
and iMac Pro is on the website. It just said “coming December”. and is it me or has HomePod hype died down?
2) Why come to the MacBook first? Personally I find that confusing when there's an entire product line called MacBook Air that could use a refresh with the MacBook look and feel but with macOS running on and Apple-designed ARM SoC that would allow a clear demarcation point between the other Mac products.
I'm looking forward to it, but it all depends on whether it will be able to work with the Apple TV as both a speaker system for my TV and as a way of use Siri voice commands to control content without having to press and hold the Siri button on the Apple TV remote.
What does that have to do with anything? So, your argument is that because they sell less of them than the precious iPhone, it should go un-updated for YEARS while the iPhone gets yearly or more updates? Why? Please explain. No, its cost doesn't warrant it's value. The problem is there isn't a good alternative. And, it isn't about wishes, we're just making comments about what the company we're depending on is doing or not doing. If Apple is doing everything perfectly for you, great. They aren't for many of us. I'd rather complain in hopes of getting their attention before I move away and start recommending alternatives.
2) It's odd (but not surprising) that you believe the iPhone is the only product Apple updates.
3) Apple dictates their own product line. People aren't buying low-yeild, low profit products so they have less incentive to update. Now you can argue that if they did update more they would get more revenue, and potentially more profit, but it's about finite resources going to things that are less relevant to the company's bottom line (i.e.: wasteful).
4) You can bitch and moan all you want but you just sound like a colossal douche when you tell a company what it should do because you want something.
5) Apple has never done anything "perfect" for me because I don't live in a fantasy world. There are changes and directions I'd take that Apple either doesn't make because my "perfect" product is too esoteric, or because my timeline is further ahead. The difference is you don't see me crying about it because I don't it personally when a company acts in their own best interest and my support for Apple begins and ends when I choose a product that best suits my needs. If another company comes along with something better than I take it. I own them nothing and they own me nothing. One day, hopefully, you will understand that very simple concept about the free market instead of the nightmare that they design around your singular needs.
My wife actually said the other day that she finds stereo sound annoying! That hurt my soul, LOL. I'm not sure she's even ever heard a real relatively decent stereo system in her life. The 25+ yr-old HK receiver I had died before we got married, and nothing we've purchased since (even relatively expensive Kenwood and Yamaha AVR systems haven't come close... I think I'm done with attempting surround sound, too.) and while I've heard good Infinity < 5" speakers in the past, we've had nothing to match them let alone a nice big pair of 15" - 18" woofer, 3-way towers. There's something special about actual bass you can feel vs overblown 'thumping'. We don't even have a respectable pair of speakers anymore (besides the studio monitors I'm selling because they are paired with a too-noisy amp for my office environment). What is the world coming to???
There, I think that was my curmudgeon, get off my grass, rant of the day!
2) Do you realize that if Apple wanted to spy on you that they could enable audio recordings at any time? The same goes for video recording and of course watching everything you do on your screens, your keystrokes, and user patterns, and everything that goes through their servers. Listening for a "wake word" doesn't make Siri and Apple more sinister, it's just an irrational fear.
The iPhone isn't the only product that they update, but sometimes it seems like it's the only product that really matters to them... because, well, pie-chart. And, in 5 or 10 years when no one cares about the iPhone or it isn't the flavor of the month anymore, then what? Oh, yea, the silly AI-car project, I guess. Or, maybe the Watch or HomePod will hav become a hit by then? Meanwhile, the industry influences and content producers will have moved on, and then what?
Yes, Apple dictates their own product line. That doesn't mean I can't point out stupid. And, it doesn't mean a 30+ year Apple evangelist shouldn't try to call them out in hopes of some course-correction just as fervently as I've recommended their products over that time. Do they owe me something? Legally, no. But, I've effectively sold many $millions of their product and brand over the years, even in their darkest moments... for free. They do owe me something in terms of relationship, yes, just not on paper. I've at least earned the right to bitch and complain!
And, it's not just because I want something. It's because I actually care how things turn out for them. They have had a huge impact on the world, and have made technology a better place to be. I don't want to see that all thrown away and head back into another tech 'dark ages'. I've been through previous ones, and it wan't fun. If Apple just becomes another Windows, we all lose.
re: #5 - Please explain how an up-to-date Mac Mini or Mac Pro is a 'fantasy world'. It has nothing to do with esoteric or further ahead. It has to do with serving your core (and loyal) customers. And, it isn't in their best interest! If I really thought it was, I'd just move on to Windows and say bye-bye to Apple. (BTW, we're economically far from a free market.)
But, yes, I understand that with microphones all over the place, we're pretty much out of luck if any player isn't honest with us (and, as recent news indicates, lots of non-Apple companies aren't). I still have some faith in Apple in that regard, I suppose. But, I guess it's more that I just don't find a need for such a device, so why add a device that's designed to do it?
(Note: while I don't, others do pay attention to such things, and I think if our Macs or iDevices were sending all our keystrokes, audio, video, etc. back to Apple, security experts somewhere would probably report on that. However, with a device designed to send audio to Apple all the time, they might not as easily notice. So, I'm not sure it's completely irrational. Nor, is the idea of being spied on... it's probably more irrational to think you're not being spied on!)