Apple sacks iPhone X engineer after daughter posts hands-on video to YouTube

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  • Reply 61 of 286
    red oakred oak Posts: 964member
    Most people support Apple's decision, but they don't stand a chance when this engineer realizes he has to take it to court (because he may not work again, at least at the same level). The reason is that double-edged sword that Apple uniquely wields in controlling the technology, not to mention that facility. A reasonable person might ask how much it would have really cost Apple to ensure that phones could not film without first obtaining a code number or other authorization and what precautions were taken to assist employees with authorized visitors in complying with the security policies. The answer to these questions probably mean this girl will have her education paid for while she stars in her own cable show.
    WTF are u talking about 
    StrangeDaysmacguijony0
  • Reply 62 of 286
    Most people support Apple's decision, but they don't stand a chance when this engineer realizes he has to take it to court (because he may not work again, at least at the same level). The reason is that double-edged sword that Apple uniquely wields in controlling the technology, not to mention that facility. A reasonable person might ask how much it would have really cost Apple to ensure that phones could not film without first obtaining a code number or other authorization and what precautions were taken to assist employees with authorized visitors in complying with the security policies. The answer to these questions probably mean this girl will have her education paid for while she stars in her own cable show.
    Engineer for sure broke a contract he signed. Good luck to him, maybe he'll be hired by another tech company.
    I know someone who works at Apple. None of the proprietary information is ever part of our discussions. Never.
    SpamSandwichbaconstangradarthekatpscooter63jony0
  • Reply 63 of 286
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    dewme said:
    While we don’t know the details, sure a demotion of something could also be considered. But it’s not like Apple cut his finger off... Apple engineers can work anywhere they want. Many will sympathize with him and I doubt he’ll have much trouble finding another gig. 
    Sympathize? This guy put his coworker's and teammate's jobs at risk to indulge his daughter in a stupid stunt. I wouldn’t be looking for someone with such little regard for his coworkers, team, and company to join any team or organization that I am part of. There are plenty of smart and qualified engineers available to fill the position he held at Apple. Now if he publicly apologized to his former team, coworkers, and Apple and showed some remorse then he absolutely deserves a second chance - at a company that doesn’t have as much at stake or has to endure as much public scrutiny as Apple has to deal with on a daily basis. 

    This isn't a Big Corporation vs Little Employee situation. It’s a case of an individual ignoring or forgetting his personal and professional responsibility to his team and employer for purely selfish reasons.
    You can say he violated an agreement or two but I don't see how he "put his coworker's and teammate's jobs at risk." What damage did the video itself directly cause them? Was there a single piece of information about the device looks or works that you can't see elsewhere with official Apple material? I also have a had time applying your doomsday scenario to the HomePod firmware release which actually had copious amounts of unknown information disseminated. Is Apple now going to kill the HomePod project because of that major gaffe? I wouldn't think so.
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 64 of 286
    hodarhodar Posts: 349member
    plankton said:
    This product was within days of release and EVERY rumor site in the world has published details weeks and months ago.  Some was undoubtedly leaked by Apple to create a buzz, some was by other NDA violators. So what is Apple to do? Cease all relations with sites like Daring Fireball, Rene Ritchie at iMore—who undoubtedly has an internal leaker violating NDA but gets invited to every press event nevertheless—and the rest of the enablers?
    It's not the firing that gets me, it's the Apple hypocrisy.
    The engineer was a fool to let his stupid daughter do what she did, but have a little empathy. There was nothing in the YouTube video millions of people did not already know.
    A severe scolding and a pay downgrade would have been appropriate but firing is a step too far IMO.


    Welcome to life.  Perhaps someday when you have a job, perhaps you MAY rise in position high enough to be trusted enough to sign an NDA.  Then you will be trusted to handle company confidential material like this fool was.  If you screw up, being fired is the MILDEST consequence you can hope for.  Apple could access financial damages from this early release and that could be millions; and guess WHO IS RESPONSIBLE.  In the real world, there are consequences.   Unlike Mom’s basement; the real world will follow through. 

    Being fired was being let off EASY. 
    netmagemagman1979baconstanglongpathradarthekatjony0
  • Reply 65 of 286
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    hodar said:
    Being fired was being let off EASY. 
    Enough with the hyperbole, and put down your torch and pitchfork. That's all Apple can do unless you can prove damages. The disgruntled employee that uploaded the iOS 11 GM didn't hurt sales, but that may be considered digital theft and so criminal charged may be possible for that guy, but you'll have to explain to me how this video is 1) a criminal offense, and/or 2) Apple has been financially hurt.
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 66 of 286
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,913member
    Apple, I Disagree with this decision. 

    Firing is extreme. 

    It is not correct.


    Written like a true millennial.  He signed an NDA.  Grow up.  
    netmagemacseekerSemperFimagman1979SpamSandwichbshankbaconstanglongpathradarthekatStrangeDays
  • Reply 67 of 286
    smaffei said:
    Why is no one asking "How did she unlock the phone?" It's an employee phone, it is locked with facial recognition and a passcode. In order to use the phone she would need dad to use his face or give her the lock passcode. Dad knew this was going on. That is why he was fired.
    great point....

    I see this as half on her father, and half on the daughter.
    I suspect that he might get a job from a company that wants to take advantage of the situation, but the daughter has basically shot down her dad’s career. aka it’s a real get a clue moment.
    I suppose anything is possible, but it does not look good at this point.
    I hope that the daughter can understand how much she has injured her father and the trust that was given to him, but he totally had to unlock the phone to make it happen....
    This will take years for the daughter and her father to work out. I hope it will work out in the long run.
  • Reply 68 of 286
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    jon.pdx said:
    smaffei said:
    Why is no one asking "How did she unlock the phone?" It's an employee phone, it is locked with facial recognition and a passcode. In order to use the phone she would need dad to use his face or give her the lock passcode. Dad knew this was going on. That is why he was fired.
    great point....

    I see this as half on her father, and half on the daughter.
    I suspect that he might get a job from a company that wants to take advantage of the situation, but the daughter has basically shot down her dad’s career. aka it’s a real get a clue moment.
    I suppose anything is possible, but it does not look good at this point.
    I hope that the daughter can understand how much she has injured her father and the trust that was given to him, but he totally had to unlock the phone to make it happen....
    This will take years for the daughter and her father to work out. I hope it will work out in the long run.
    Wait, what? You're not blaming the father for letting her film in the cafe as he used the iPhone X as well as filming her as she used his iPhone X? You're blaming her for using the iPhone X he gave her? Seriously, WTF?

    PS: It's not a "great point" when the father is there. Her holding the phone out toward the camera her father is using to film the iPhone X would likely have unlocked it then and there if he hadn't already unlocked it in some way prior to giving it to her. This isn't rocket science.
    edited October 2017 bshankjony0
  • Reply 69 of 286
    oh, where is that humane apple CEO that is so concerned with human rights and all kind of social, antisocial and more or less rational rights??...


  • Reply 70 of 286
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 2,794member
    This guy should have been fired instantly. And hello sympathizers to this fired employee, do you understand if Apple overlook and let this incident go than it leaves a door open where other employees not afraid of their job and leak more untimely information. Those competitors lurking and looking for every bit of info that Apple is working on soon as they can get their hands on so they can come out with product ahead or close to Apple's release of products. Do you know how many billions of dollars at stake and possibly competitive disadvantage. So, stupid Brooke Amelia Peterson should know that she is putting her dad in bad situation. I would kick my daughter for messing with my carrier. Do you remember the Apple employee left unannounced prototype iPhone in drinking bar and Apple had to put lots of resources to retrieve it.
    edited October 2017 baconstanglongpathStrangeDays
  • Reply 71 of 286
    And if you were he, you would have to put your other foot up your own ass for compromising your career, considering he was the person at fault allowing for the activity to occur.
    edited October 2017 magman1979baconstanglongpathjony0
  • Reply 72 of 286
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    A google/Samsung employee is born!

    CobraGuy said:
    CobraGuy said:
    The security breach of the century right here.

    Good job destroying the guys life Apple.
    Apple held the engineer to standards that are well known to both parties. The engineer knows he screwed up and has accepted the consequences of his actions. 

    Why blame Apple? Don’t you understand that people are responsible for their own actions, and if you violate a contract, there are consequences?

    I suppose you blame the police, prosecutor and judge for destroying the bank robber’s life, too. 
    Bank robber probably threatened people with a gun.

    just when I thought Apple was a loving, caring and diverse company.

    Apple is the only tech company that protects user privacy and goes to great length to protect the environment. Your opinion changes nothing.

    CobraGuy said:
    If this were Samsung, I doubt they would be getting much support.
    Why bring up a knockoff company, are you one of those iKnockoff users?

    samsung doesn’t create original hardware so no one cares. 
    magman1979baconstangpscooter63jony0
  • Reply 73 of 286
    He should not have given the new iPhone to her daughter to use!  Teenagers are loose ships sink ship type of people.  In other words, they cannot keep secrets and will do stuff like this without think of the consequences!
    macseekermagman1979
  • Reply 74 of 286
    dewmedewme Posts: 4,546member
    You can say he violated an agreement or two but I don't see how he "put his coworker's and teammate's jobs at risk." What damage did the video itself directly cause them? Was there a single piece of information about the device looks or works that you can't see elsewhere with official Apple material? I also have a had time applying your doomsday scenario to the HomePod firmware release which actually had copious amounts of unknown information disseminated. Is Apple now going to kill the HomePod project because of that major gaffe? I wouldn't think so.”

    These NDAs aren’t situational, i.e., the implications of unauthorized disclosure are not assessed based on the potential impact of the actual incident. It’s a formal trust relationship that’s been put in place and this employee violated that trust. But with anything related to a major Apple (and other major companies) product release anything that causes even a small percentage impact on sales can result in losses, missed targets, and employee furloughs. Another concrete example is that employee devices may contain undisclosed inventions that are still in development and for which patent disclosures have not been formally submitted. The unauthorized disclosure of inventions prior to filing could potentially keep a company from obtaining intellectual property protection for the invention. This could have serious bottom line and workforce implications. Whether this particular employee's device contained any such inventions is unknown, but this is exactly why an NDA was in place.
    netmagemagman1979baconstanglongpathradarthekatpscooter63
  • Reply 75 of 286
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,595member
    Of course, I am not privy to the details of the fathers error beyond the article. But, all parties could come out ahead by making this incident a teachable moment where this apparently well respected employee could continue in some capacity at Apple. All employees, management and the public in general would benefit from witnessing Apple again as an entity with a compassionate corporate ethos and yet would reaffirm and strengthen their policy against this breach internally.  Being that it is a public problem now, the family is contrite, remorseful and apologetic and are still clearly Apple boosters, all parties can gain in an Apple PR sensitive move. The Public beyond Apple will be watching this in hopes of slinging arrows at Apple, as always.
    Nonsense - this is not about compassion but about living by the rules. The potential damage to Apple caused by leaks can be significant, impacting the entire enterprise competitively and financially. Apple had no choice. Conversely, this guy knew what was going on as he and his daughter sat in Apple’s own cafe doing this stupid stunt. This IS the teachable moment!
    baconstangradarthekatpscooter63
  • Reply 76 of 286
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Did the person who lost an iPhone 4 at a bar months before it was to be unveiled get fired?
    I’m not sure why you’re equating the accidental loss of a device intended to be removed from the office for outside testing with the intentional violation of your NDA by letting your kid record a video of an unreleased product inside of Apple’s HQ where any filming isn’t allowed anyway and then publishing it YouTube. Obviously they are not the same. One is an accident. One was willful and demonstrates insanely poor judgement.
    He may have accidentally forgotten the device but do you think when he was issued the device for testing outside of campus that he wasn't given a disclosure agreement to sign that stated that he's not to leave it anywhere, allow anyone else to use it, and/or not to talk about the device he has in a special case to obfuscate its appearance? I'd think that's pretty standard boiler plate for any company with a modicum of security and probably barely scratching the surface when it comes to what Apple likely had him sign. If I were in charge of this issue at Apple I'd even put in there that the employee should not imbibe if they wish to be part of this testing program because of the greater chance of having a lapse in judgement. Accident or not, the comments here are mostly very adamant about any violation of an agreement being a fireable offense—"no exceptions!," hence my mention of the iPhone 4 incident.
    The biggest difference in these two incidents may be time--before a change in policy vs after a change in policy.  The iPhone 4 incident may very well have caused that change in policy.  This is all speculation, but the iPhone 4 engineer may have used the one "get out of jail free card" for the entire company.  After that, Apple may well have decided that any violation is a fireable offense.  I don't claim to know.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 77 of 286
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    dewme said:
    i.e., the implications of unauthorized disclosure are not assessed based on the potential impact of the actual incident.
    That's what I said. You, on the other hand, said, "This guy put his coworker's and teammate's jobs at risk," which specifically indicated that he put others at risk, not that the NDA is in place to prevent the potential risk of putting the company (and individuals) at risk. Those are very different claims.
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 78 of 286
    freerangefreerange Posts: 1,595member
    johnbear said:
    oh, where is that humane apple CEO that is so concerned with human rights and all kind of social, antisocial and more or less rational rights??...


    He’s busy running the most successful company in the world you halfwit. And one of the key reasons Apple is so successful is that they keep their innovation, their technology and products as tightly held secrets until launch as there are a myriad of significantly large players out there gunning for them and trying to steal Apple’s technology. Now go get yourself a good education in Business 101.
    edited October 2017 tycho_macusernetmagemagman1979baconstangpscooter63
  • Reply 79 of 286
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Did the person who lost an iPhone 4 at a bar months before it was to be unveiled get fired?
    I’m not sure why you’re equating the accidental loss of a device intended to be removed from the office for outside testing with the intentional violation of your NDA by letting your kid record a video of an unreleased product inside of Apple’s HQ where any filming isn’t allowed anyway and then publishing it YouTube. Obviously they are not the same. One is an accident. One was willful and demonstrates insanely poor judgement.
    He may have accidentally forgotten the device but do you think when he was issued the device for testing outside of campus that he wasn't given a disclosure agreement to sign that stated that he's not to leave it anywhere, allow anyone else to use it, and/or not to talk about the device he has in a special case to obfuscate its appearance? I'd think that's pretty standard boiler plate for any company with a modicum of security and probably barely scratching the surface when it comes to what Apple likely had him sign. If I were in charge of this issue at Apple I'd even put in there that the employee should not imbibe if they wish to be part of this testing program because of the greater chance of having a lapse in judgement. Accident or not, the comments here are mostly very adamant about any violation of an agreement being a fireable offense—"no exceptions!," hence my mention of the iPhone 4 incident.
    The biggest difference in these two incidents may be time--before a change in policy vs after a change in policy.  The iPhone 4 incident may very well have caused that change in policy.  This is all speculation, but the iPhone 4 engineer may have used the one "get out of jail free card" for the entire company.  After that, Apple may well have decided that any violation is a fireable offense.  I don't claim to know.
    Speculation is perfectly fine and useful or conversation, so I appreciate the wording of your statement.

    I'd also proffer that other factors are at play. For example, if, say, Angela Ahrendt or Jony Ive had filmed the iPhone X in the wild last week without permission that they wouldn't have been fired because of their importance to the company.

    Now, many will read those names and think, "I can't imagine them ever doing that," and whilst that's not the point I can certainly use that thought for a rebuttal. IOW, it's not improbable that an employee that makes this egregious (albeit an unharmful to iPhone X sales) mistake has likely made other mistakes at Apple. Again I'll mention the "final straw" analogy.
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 80 of 286
    He should not have given the new iPhone to her daughter to use!  Teenagers are loose ships sink ship type of people.  In other words, they cannot keep secrets and will do stuff like this without think of the consequences!
    She's at least in her 20s! Married, trying to get pregnant...
    netmage
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