Face ID, TrueDepth camera component supplies 'stable,' technology will span 2018 iPhone li...

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited October 2017
Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo believes that the 2018 model-year iPhone will launch "on time" and with a "stable supply" sporting the existing TrueDepth system, and Face ID user authentication.




In a research note seen by AppleInsider Kuo believes that prognostications of a lower-spec TrueDepth system with hybrid glass and plastic lenses in a late 2018 iPhone are inaccurate. The analyst believes that Apple will stick with the existing technology with no increase or decrease in sensitivity or accuracy.

Furthermore, Apple's supply of the components needed for the future iPhone, as well as the iPhone X are "now stable, leaving no need to switch to other solutions."

Glass suppliers for the system in 2017 are expected to be Largan, Genius, Hoya, and/or Asia Optical, suggesting that Apple has either already diversified its supply chain, or will have done so before any 2018 model year phone heads to mass production.

Earlier in April, Kuo predicted that Apple will push its advantage over Android handset makers by integrating Face ID and its underlying TrueDepth camera system into all 2018 iPhone models, completely replacing current Touch ID technology found in the iPhone 8.

Android-based 3D sensing technologies are expected to mature between the second half of 2018 and first half of 2019, which will lead to higher rates of adoption, Kuo saidKuo said.

He also believes that the TrueDepth system will be integrated into the 2018 iPad lineup.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 35
    red oakred oak Posts: 848member
    Gas pedal mashed against the metal.   Impressive  

    I hope Apple is digging a meaningful moat here on the technology, IP/patents, vendor lock-in and supply 
    edited October 2017 watto_cobrad_2
  • Reply 2 of 35
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    I wonder if this component was ever in short supply or if this was one of the standard annual rumours for new iPhones. This one did feel different than previous reports of component shortcomings, but it's also an atypical year for the iPhone. I just hope that Face ID comes to iPads and Macs soon.
    calirepressthispscooter63watto_cobrad_2
  • Reply 3 of 35
    from now: "The New iPhone X" which in 2018 will have a newer processor, better battery etc etc, introduced at the price of the current iPhone X. iPhone X will drop in price. Keep iPhone (Whatever Iteration) and its plus sibling at a very affordable price - (hopefully with newer processors, rest can stay the same)
    edited October 2017 repressthis
  • Reply 4 of 35
    Rumors and analysts are now synonymous when it come to Apple. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 35
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    I don’t believe a word unless it comes from Apple.

    This guy will say the obvious “FaceID coming to other Apple devices!” And if they don’t in 2018 he’ll use the analyst exit plan “well AHEM! There was a supply issue so they had to hold off until next year”.

    Let’s be real, we all know FaceID isn’t gonna stay trapped in iPhone.
    Watch is the most practical. Imagine the battery life it will save? Only turning on when you look at it.

    I hope Apple can shrink the technology in 2018 or eliminate it. Maybe place the cameras and speaker into the tiny top bezel? That would be awesome.

    Cant wait for iPads and Macs with FaceID also.

    vannygee said:
    from now: "The New iPhone X" which in 2018 will have a newer processor, better battery etc etc, introduced at the price of the current iPhone X. iPhone X will drop in price. Keep iPhone (Whatever Iteration) and its plus sibling at a very affordable price - (hopefully with newer processors, rest can stay the same)
    I see a new SE soon that hopefully drops the old one for the same price. 
    edited October 2017 tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 35
    Soli said:
    I wonder if this component was ever in short supply or if this was one of the standard annual rumours for new iPhones. This one did feel different than previous reports of component shortcomings, but it's also an atypical year for the iPhone. I just hope that Face ID comes to iPads and Macs soon.
    You are too kind to that mystic seer of the East. I was going to post: “Oh sure, a month after you tried to destroy AAPL with your spurious, baseless “reports” of supple constraints, all is well now. Did you get enough cheap AAPL for your clients?

    reprinting Kuo’s trash rewards him for lying. 
    StrangeDaysrepressthispscooter63calimagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 35

    I see a new SE soon that hopefully drops the old one for the same price. 
    I see Apple introducing another OLED iPhone in 2018, that one using the 8 Plus chassis for a 6.5” display starting at $999. Then in 2019 the SE chassis will become OLEDized (4.7”) at $799. 

    Throughout Apple will continue to produce SEs using LED screens in a 4” inch configuration at $399. 
    ksecrepressthiscanukstorm
  • Reply 8 of 35
    SendMcjakSendMcjak Posts: 66unconfirmed, member
    cali said:

    Let’s be real, we all know FaceID isn’t gonna stay trapped in iPhone.
    Watch is the most practical. Imagine the battery life it will save? Only turning on when you look at it.
    Yeah..........
    repressthis
  • Reply 9 of 35
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    cali said:
    Watch is the most practical. Imagine the battery life it will save? Only turning on when you look at it.
    I've considered that—and of course I'd love to see it happen posthaste—but I wonder when that will feasible.

    In the iPhone, the battery is large enough that the Face ID components can be a minimal power draw in that always-ready, instant-authentication state, but how will that translate with the Apple Watch battery and what I assume is both a better secure element and processor, both likely to be part of a future S-series SiP. The Series 3 Watch has a 279 mAh (1.07 WHrs) battery while the iPhone X apparently has a 2716 mAh battery; or about 1/10h the capacity.


    edited October 2017 caliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 35
    Soli said:
    cali said:
    Watch is the most practical. Imagine the battery life it will save? Only turning on when you look at it.
    I've considered that—and of course I'd love to see it happen posthaste—but I wonder when that will feasible.

    In the iPhone, the battery is large enough that the Face ID components can be a minimal power draw in that already ready, instant-authentication state, but how will that translate with the Apple Watch battery and what I assume is both a better secure element and processor, both likely to be part of a future S-series SiP. The Series 3 Watch has a 279 mAh (1.07 WHrs) battery while the iPhone X apparently has a 2716 mAh battery; or about 1/10h the capacity.


    Exactly. How would running all this overhead circuitry end up *saving* power? Overkill defined.
    repressthisasdasdwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 35
    netroxnetrox Posts: 1,011member
    I can't wait for iPad to have FaceID because I don't want to use my fingerprint, I want to be able to pick it up, be recognized instantly and start writing right away. Right now, it's much half baked with the Pencil tap to write feature on my iPad Pro (first gen).
  • Reply 12 of 35
    cali said:
    I hope Apple can shrink the technology in 2018 or eliminate it. Maybe place the cameras and speaker into the tiny top bezel? That would be awesome.
    That would be great, but it’s pretty obvious that Apple either put in the X’s notch on purpose or is completely ‘owning it’. Either way, it’s not a trivial decision to back track now. At some point it was no longer a technical decision—they could have easily had a small bezel on top of the X with no notch. The notch is part of Apple’s UI design guidelines and developers can’t ignore it. I suspect we’ll be seeing the notch for some time.

    I think it’s a weird decision considering we’ve been looking at notch-less screens (TV’s and monitors) for decades. Maybe Apple is capable of redefining a standard like that but I’m not a big fan of it.

    With that said, I have preordered the X. 
    edited October 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 35
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    Soli said:
    cali said:
    Watch is the most practical. Imagine the battery life it will save? Only turning on when you look at it.
    I've considered that—and of course I'd love to see it happen posthaste—but I wonder when that will feasible.

    In the iPhone, the battery is large enough that the Face ID components can be a minimal power draw in that already ready, instant-authentication state, but how will that translate with the Apple Watch battery and what I assume is both a better secure element and processor, both likely to be part of a future S-series SiP. The Series 3 Watch has a 279 mAh (1.07 WHrs) battery while the iPhone X apparently has a 2716 mAh battery; or about 1/10h the capacity.
    Exactly. How would running all this overhead circuitry end up *saving* power? Overkill defined.
    Saving power may not be possible, but I don't know enough about the tech to know just how much false arm raises cost in terms power compared to what the future of the Face ID tech will cost in terms of energy. I do know that if I turn on Theater Mode at night that the battery life is reduced, but I couldn't tell you by how much, and I believe that also includes disabling notificaiotns and possibly reducing network activity.

    Even if it's a net loss (which I'm sure it is for Face ID over Touch ID) the convenience and security benefits could be substantial. I think it would make the device more Apple-y to having a "magical" experience when you look at the display, even if you haven't moved your arm.

    Above shrinking the components even further and making them more power efficient is likely a need to make them work further away than Face ID currently works (about 75 cm) and with more accuracy so that, say, looking at the back of your hand or a page in a book jut past your wrist won't cause it to turn on the display because you're not looking at the Watch face. That's certainly sounds considerably more precise than the current implementation of Face ID and I'd think would need to be a part of the system because right now the Watch doesn't turn on the display under the typical way I look over and around my wrist when doing many tasks.


    PS: I'd love for watchOS PIN to allow a much stronger option than 4-digits. Since it also unlocks my Mac, which also has 1Password that only needs the password inputted after a restart/login, the convenience of unlocking my Mac with my Watch is a security weak point with 10k possible combinations and no limit to the number of attempts an attacker could try if they stole my MBP in sleep mode and my Watch. That saving grace here is that there must be an internet connection enabled for using this feature because iCloud is involved, which means I would be able to issue Lost Mode and/or Erase to my Mac and Watch as I see fit, assuming I'm free to do so and have access to the internet. Still, I'd like an option for up to a 10-digit PIN to increase the complexity from 10 thousand to 10 billion, with no indication on the keypad of the PIN's length.
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 14 of 35
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member

    georgie01 said:
    cali said:
    I hope Apple can shrink the technology in 2018 or eliminate it. Maybe place the cameras and speaker into the tiny top bezel? That would be awesome.
    That would be great, but it’s pretty obvious that Apple either put in the X’s notch on purpose or is completely ‘owning it’. Either way, it’s not a trivial decision to back track now. At some point it was no longer a technical decision—they could have easily had a small bezel on top of the X with no notch. The notch is part of Apple’s UI design guidelines and developers can’t ignore it. I suspect we’ll be seeing the notch for some time.

    I think it’s a weird decision considering we’ve been looking at notch-less screens (TV’s and monitors) for decades. Maybe Apple is capable of redefining a standard like that but I’m not a big fan of it.

    With that said, I have preordered the X. 
    I think the notch is the right way to go. If you consider what a notch-less iPhone X would look like you now have a smaller overall display if you consider the same form factor, but now still have a forehead and chin because Apple would make the top and bottom symmetrical. But then you have nothing on the bottom, just a back bar; and you can't make that go to the edge because the rounded corners would look silly on the bottom but not the top, as well as the aforementioned symmetry issue.

    I think the rounded corners and all four sides have the same thickness edge, save for the notch, is the best option and makes the fit and finish look amazing. And it's not like we're getting any obstruction from the notch since the rounded corners are also obstructions to the previous right angles of the display and the safe areas will allow an even larger display of content without any obstruction, even with videos, if you tap the video. You also get more resolution, and better and brighter pixels. It's a win-win-win-win, IMO.
    calibb-15patchythepirate
  • Reply 15 of 35

    PS: I'd love for watchOS PIN to allow a much stronger option than 4-digits. Since it also unlocks my Mac, which also has 1Password that only needs the password inputted after a restart/login, the convenience of unlocking my Mac with my Watch is a security weak point with 10k possible combinations and no limit to the number of attempts an attacker could try if they stole my MBP in sleep mode and my Watch. That saving grace here is that there must be an internet connection enabled for using this feature because iCloud is involved, which means I would be able to issue Lost Mode and/or Erase to my Mac and Watch as I see fit, assuming I'm free to do so and have access to the internet. Still, I'd like an option for up to a 10-digit PIN to increase the complexity from 10 thousand to 10 billion, with no indication on the keypad of the PIN's length.
    There is a security setting on the watch that wipes it after 10 attempts at unlock.  Therefore, after stealing your MBP and your watch, they would have a 1 in 1000 change of breaking in before the watch wiped itself.  
    Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 35
    yojimbo007yojimbo007 Posts: 1,128member
    How enlightening Kuo... 
  • Reply 17 of 35
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member

    PS: I'd love for watchOS PIN to allow a much stronger option than 4-digits. Since it also unlocks my Mac, which also has 1Password that only needs the password inputted after a restart/login, the convenience of unlocking my Mac with my Watch is a security weak point with 10k possible combinations and no limit to the number of attempts an attacker could try if they stole my MBP in sleep mode and my Watch. That saving grace here is that there must be an internet connection enabled for using this feature because iCloud is involved, which means I would be able to issue Lost Mode and/or Erase to my Mac and Watch as I see fit, assuming I'm free to do so and have access to the internet. Still, I'd like an option for up to a 10-digit PIN to increase the complexity from 10 thousand to 10 billion, with no indication on the keypad of the PIN's length.
    There is a security setting on the watch that wipes it after 10 attempts at unlock.  Therefore, after stealing your MBP and your watch, they would have a 1 in [10,000] change of breaking in before the watch wiped itself.  
    1) Thanks for that. I didn't know that existed. Has that been there since watchOS 1.0?

    2) I just noticed there's an option to disable Simple Passcode so you can add a much more complex PIN. On top of that, instead of simply having it authenticate when it has the correct PIN, disabling Simple Password requires you to also hit an "OK" button which appears after you've typed the first digit. Even if you keep the PIN simple an attacker would still not know how long your PIN is without having seen you type it in. Has this feature always been there since watchOS 1.0, too?


    edited October 2017 cali
  • Reply 18 of 35
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,652member
    Soli said:
    I wonder if this component was ever in short supply or if this was one of the standard annual rumours for new iPhones. This one did feel different than previous reports of component shortcomings, but it's also an atypical year for the iPhone. I just hope that Face ID comes to iPads and Macs soon.
    You are too kind to that mystic seer of the East. I was going to post: “Oh sure, a month after you tried to destroy AAPL with your spurious, baseless “reports” of supple constraints, all is well now. Did you get enough cheap AAPL for your clients?

    reprinting Kuo’s trash rewards him for lying. 
    If you think he’s lying then you can make a killing. Seems reliable to me. There were shortages and they are being alleviated. 
  • Reply 19 of 35
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    Soli said:
    cali said:
    Watch is the most practical. Imagine the battery life it will save? Only turning on when you look at it.
    I've considered that—and of course I'd love to see it happen posthaste—but I wonder when that will feasible.

    In the iPhone, the battery is large enough that the Face ID components can be a minimal power draw in that always-ready, instant-authentication state, but how will that translate with the Apple Watch battery and what I assume is both a better secure element and processor, both likely to be part of a future S-series SiP. The Series 3 Watch has a 279 mAh (1.07 WHrs) battery while the iPhone X apparently has a 2716 mAh battery; or about 1/10h the capacity.


    With time my friend, with time....

    The logical steps are increasing battery life with software and smaller components for a bigger battery.

    the question is less “how” is it gonna happen but “when”. At its current state the notch will look ugly on a tiny Watch but bet your as* Apple isn’t sitting around waiting for the tech to shrink itself.
    If Apple can shrink the notch into the bezel or somehow move sensors into the screen we will see FaceID on the Watch.

    Soli said:
    cali said:
    Watch is the most practical. Imagine the battery life it will save? Only turning on when you look at it.
    I've considered that—and of course I'd love to see it happen posthaste—but I wonder when that will feasible.

    In the iPhone, the battery is large enough that the Face ID components can be a minimal power draw in that already ready, instant-authentication state, but how will that translate with the Apple Watch battery and what I assume is both a better secure element and processor, both likely to be part of a future S-series SiP. The Series 3 Watch has a 279 mAh (1.07 WHrs) battery while the iPhone X apparently has a 2716 mAh battery; or about 1/10h the capacity.


    Exactly. How would running all this overhead circuitry end up *saving* power? Overkill defined.

    All those false Wakes you don’t notice throughout the day. Often I see people’s Watches light up when they’re not looking.

    Keep in mind the Watch has a tiny screen compared to iPhone X. The possibility isn’t space age it’s very soon.

    The logical FaceID evolution:

    iPhone 2017
    iPad/MacBook 2018
    Apple TV/Watch 2019
  • Reply 20 of 35
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,028member
    cali said:
    Soli said:
    cali said:
    Watch is the most practical. Imagine the battery life it will save? Only turning on when you look at it.
    I've considered that—and of course I'd love to see it happen posthaste—but I wonder when that will feasible.

    In the iPhone, the battery is large enough that the Face ID components can be a minimal power draw in that always-ready, instant-authentication state, but how will that translate with the Apple Watch battery and what I assume is both a better secure element and processor, both likely to be part of a future S-series SiP. The Series 3 Watch has a 279 mAh (1.07 WHrs) battery while the iPhone X apparently has a 2716 mAh battery; or about 1/10h the capacity.


    With time my friend, with time....

    The logical steps are increasing battery life with software and smaller components for a bigger battery.

    the question is less “how” is it gonna happen but “when”. At its current state the notch will look ugly on a tiny Watch but bet your as* Apple isn’t sitting around waiting for the tech to shrink itself.
    If Apple can shrink the notch into the bezel or somehow move sensors into the screen we will see FaceID on the Watch.
    At least with the Watch there's a large enough bezel that they could potentially put in there without affecting the device footprint or eating Into the display, at least how it's designed now. They could also put the sensors around the display, which could offset the load and even allow for the extra precision I mentioned by having multiple sensors and sensors further apart so that different angles of your eyes' gaze can be calculated. The possibilities are grande. #GodILoveTechnology
    cali
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