dysamoria said: It's amazing how so many tech people side with "liberty" and slam government "control and overreach", but will still side with and promote draconian corporate policy in discussions of public issues between a company and an employee... so long as they're not the employee themselves.
Things are rarely so black and white as "you broke the rule and deserve whatever punishment is dealt", but these guys seem to be comfortable with nothing but.
Clearly, you’ve never been in a position to sign an NDA. I have, they ARE black and white, and for very good reasons already articulated far better than I could hope to
All the emotionalism and hand-wringing on display here is simply ill-informed.
Well-stated. I have to sign them all the time, and I have never seen a provision that says disclosure is authorized when your daughter says "please, daddy."
You know you better than anybody else does. If you know you can't or don't want to keep secrets, don't get a job that requires that.
Did the person who lost an iPhone 4 at a bar months before it was to be unveiled get fired? How about the person that uploaded the HomePod firmware that contained data on other unreleased Apple products? I think the person that uploaded the iOS 11 GM was a disgruntled employee, and while that part can't wholly be Apple's fault it's certainly Apple's fault for allowing an employee to add internet-facing files to their servers with secret URLs. They really need better security and likely a two-key system for uploading any new content, which would also have likely saved them from the HomePod firmware debacle.
From the information presented, I think the decision was harsh but perhaps there is more context that hasn't come out yet.
What about the information already presented in the article strikes you as this move on Apple's part being 'harsh'?
Clearly he referring to the engineer being fired. I agree that it appears harsh.
There's literally no additional information to be had from this child's iPhone X video. Let's keep in mind that it was done the week of pre-orders and about 6 weeks after the device was already demoed in vivid detail by Apple. Based on the information presented I can't imagine firing this engineer over this one issue. If you had said, "Apple has a lot more information than we do and they felt it necessary to fire the engineer so who are we to say that they are wrong. It's their company and it's likely they didn't break any laws with letting the engineer go," that would be a very different response while still agreeing with Apple's firing of the employee. Instead you made a draconian implication that rules need to followed to the letter, that there's not room for gray areas or conscious consideration of the scope of an offense, and that punishments should be as brutal as possible in your initial comment. Maybe there were other circumstances, like other lapses I judgement which made this a final strike against him, but you made zero indication that this might simply be the final straw on the camel's back in your original comment. I can't agree with such despotic ways of thinking.
It's amazing how so many tech people side with "liberty" and slam government "control and overreach", but will still side with and promote draconian corporate policy in discussions of public issues between a company and an employee... so long as they're not the employee themselves.
Things are rarely so black and white as "you broke the rule and deserve whatever punishment is dealt", but these guys seem to be comfortable with nothing but. The second someone suggests that an employee's mistake might be better handled with grace and kindness instead of abrupt dismissal, the corporate fascists start using phrases like "victim card", "rules are rules", and demonstrating a callousness that suggests that they might make horrible vindictive employers themselves (or hoping to see everyone else treated with as much callous disregard as they themselves have been treated somewhere in their own personal histories).
Rule of law = "corporate fascists"? Wow. 'Nuff said.
/rolleyes
Yes! He said it very well! ... Sorry you feel it doesn't apply to you. But, the people he was talking about tend to live under delusions like yours...
Groan... no need to feel sorry at all. I am quite happy with the feeling that it doesn't apply to me.
I am the biggest fan of shareholder capitalism, so save your sympathy for your like-minded fellow-men.
OK, this thread has gone into some depth regarding the NDA violations committed by the Apple engineer and his daughter, and whether the consequences, in the form of his termination and public sullying of his reputation, are justified in this scenario, given the iPhone X is due to launch in a matter of days, and was already presented publicly in the Steve Jobs Theatre to the media some weeks ago.
Time Index 0:00 - Father is shown handing over iPhone X unlocked to daughter, in clear sight of the Apple Caffé Macs, with another Apple employee sitting right next to him
Time Index 0:01 - Daughter beings to showcase certain swipe / navigation gestures that are custom to iPhone X
Time Index 0:09 - Daughter is seen holding a Canon dSLR camera with one hand, pointed at the screen of the iPhone X (doing the actual video taping), whilst she shows off the front camera system
Time Index 0:16 - Daughter makes introductory remark of "Dad has the new iPhone X"
Time Index 0:17 - Daughter asks her father "Are people calling it the iPhone 10, or the..." to which the father can be heard responding "Yes"
Time Index 0:28 - Daughter continues to demonstrate gestures and navigation designed for iPhone X
Time Index 0:38 - Daughter takes a picture of herself with the rear-facing camera, with her face clearly displayed on the pre-production iPhone X
Time Index 0:43 - Father now has iPhone X in his hand, showing of Animoji to his daughter and proclaims "That's my face"
Time Index 0:49 - Daughter pans dSLR camera to father's face to capture clear shot of him holding the phone and demoing it for her
Time Index 0:50 - Daughter pans dSLR around Caffé Macs, showcasing where the video was captured
Time Index 0:51 - Daughter tapes herself outside the caffe, clearly showing Apple Campus and fellow employees
Everyone here knows how secretive Apple is about their technologies, and adherence to rules of the company. In the summery outlined above, the father is just as complicit in the violations as the daughter, by actively participating in actions that are clearly outlined as forbidden, and being terminable offences, in the Apple NDA, which he signed as a condition of his employment at Apple. Having worked for IBM some years ago, I can attest to the NDA's mandated by large corporations to protect items such as proprietary technologies, facilities, employee privacy, and so on.
If, say, the father had placed the iPhone X down on the table while he went to the counter to get something, and his daughter surreptitiously started taping herself reviewing the iPhone X, that could "possibly" be then classified as negligence on the part of the father, and perhaps he may have gotten off with a temporary suspension, reprimand, or pay cut, whichever HR would deem suitable in that circumstance.
However, this was not a case of accidental exposure, it was wilful, starting with him allowing his daughter admittance onto the campus grounds with a large dSLR camera configured for video recording (outline of zoom mic can be seen attached to the camera hot shoe at time index 0:09), and later proceeding to assist his daughter by providing verbal information on the device, and performing an Animoji demo for her.
This demonstrates massive lack of judgement, deliberate intent, and violation of (likely) many clauses of his NDA signed with Apple.
In any corporate, or even public sector, employment situation, any one of those disclosures would be grounds for immediate dismissal, let alone all of them combined.
The argument made by individuals here that some of this information was already in the public domain is completely irrelevant. We forget to think about the illegal video taping of the Caffé Macs, the video taping of fellow employees whom did not provide any consent to being taped in an area which they feel is secured from this sort of action due to the same NDA they signed, ensuring privacy, and quite possibly other aspects I haven't touched on here.
The bulk of the blame here can be levelled against the father, starting with the moment he let her into the building with a dSLR around her neck, and THAT is the bottom line. This single action empowered the rest to transpire, so the full blame lays with him, and termination was the ONLY logical, and rational, course of action Apple could have taken in this instance.
The publicity of this termination, thus creating an atmosphere of distrust in his potential hiring by other firms, can be blamed on the daughter uploading this to the public domain, and also (still) on the father for allowing her to upload the video, so like the saying goes, he made his bed, now he must sleep in it.
All other points here, be it political, conspiracy, morality, are completely mute.
dysamoria said: It's amazing how so many tech people side with "liberty" and slam government "control and overreach", but will still side with and promote draconian corporate policy in discussions of public issues between a company and an employee... so long as they're not the employee themselves.
Things are rarely so black and white as "you broke the rule and deserve whatever punishment is dealt", but these guys seem to be comfortable with nothing but.
Clearly, you’ve never been in a position to sign an NDA. I have, they ARE black and white, and for very good reasons already articulated far better than I could hope to
All the emotionalism and hand-wringing on display here is simply ill-informed.
Well-stated. I have to sign them all the time, and I have never seen a provision that says disclosure is authorized when your daughter says "please, daddy."
You know you better than anybody else does. If you know you can't or don't want to keep secrets, don't get a job that requires that.
Yep! Rules is Rules! (Except when it happens to a 'rules is rules' kind a guy).
Give the guy a break! While it shouldn't happen, firing someone over something he hasn't posted doesn't look good. Steve Jobs was no angel, Apple has a double standard here.
Give the guy a break! While it shouldn't happen, firing someone over something he hasn't posted doesn't look good. Steve Jobs was no angel, Apple has a double standard here.
Read my post above, he ALLOWED his daughter to enter the campus with a dSLR camera and zoom mic for video taping.
This was premeditated, and planned, and shows wilful violation of Apple's rules, and the NDA he signed.
And then he continued to let her post this video online. He's 100% responsible for his firing, and probable difficulties of being hired in his field in the future. No, I won't give him a break, and any ethical and moral person would say the same.
And if, for the sake of argument, if he was so stupid as to think no harm would come of this, then I'm glad Apple canned his dumb ass, as someone that stupid shouldn't be working for company like Apple in the first place.
Give the guy a break! While it shouldn't happen, firing someone over something he hasn't posted doesn't look good. Steve Jobs was no angel, Apple has a double standard here.
Read my post above, he ALLOWED his daughter to enter the campus with a dSLR camera and zoom mic for video taping.
This was premeditated, and planned, and shows wilful violation of Apple's rules, and the NDA he signed.
And then he continued to let her post this video online. He's 100% responsible for his firing, and probable difficulties of being hired in his field in the future. No, I won't give him a break, and any ethical and moral person would say the same.
And if, for the sake of argument, if he was so stupid as to think no harm would come of this, then I'm glad Apple canned his dumb ass, as someone that stupid shouldn't be working for company like Apple in the first place.
How would you know this information? Have you been on the campus? Let me tell, cases like that go to court and the perspective might be very different for this guy, he may win his case against a firing! Be very careful, there is know way you know what happened!
Give the guy a break! While it shouldn't happen, firing someone over something he hasn't posted doesn't look good. Steve Jobs was no angel, Apple has a double standard here.
Do the right thing, put your dollars where your mouth is, and boycott Apple, then.
Apple has reportedly fired an engineer who worked on iPhone X after his daughter posted a hands-on video of the device to YouTube, breaking the company's non-disclosure agreement policies.
Last week, Brooke Amelia Peterson posted a short hands-on video of Apple's hotly anticipated smartphone to her YouTube channel, showing off Apple Pay and a few iPhone X exclusive user interface features.
Thanks to hype leading up to the phone's release, the "in the wild" clip shot in the Caffe Macs restaurant on Apple's campus, quickly garnered media attention. Apple subsequently called for its removal, a request with which Peterson complied, but not before the footage went viral.
In a post to her YouTube channel on Saturday, Peterson claims Apple was forced to fire her father over the incident. Company rules strictly prohibit the documenting of unreleased hardware, whether it be photos, video or descriptions of device features. Unauthorized filming on Apple property is also verboten.
"Apple let him go," Peterson said. "At the end of the day, when you work for Apple, it doesn't matter how good of a person you are, if you break a rule they just have no tolerance."
Apple's strict NDA policy is in place not only to ensure the security of proprietary technology, but also for employee safety.
The device in question was an internal development unit that carried sensitive information like employee QR codes, product codenames and internal software, including a Text Edit app.
According to The Verge, the elder Peterson worked on iPhone RF and wireless circuit design prior to his dismissal. Prior reports claim the engineer was scheduled to make the move to Apple's new Apple Park campus in December.
Apple has not responded to requests for comment.
Peterson said her father takes full responsibility for the turn of events, adding that her family holds no animosity toward the company.
No stupid chick..don’t blame Apple...YOU and only YOU caused your father to get fired. Be glad they didn’t sue him to boot. Are you going to drive an Uber to make up the family financial deficit because you wanted to be popular and/or get hits?
This scandal makes Watergate look like amateur night.
Give the guy a break! While it shouldn't happen, firing someone over something he hasn't posted doesn't look good. Steve Jobs was no angel, Apple has a double standard here.
Read my post above, he ALLOWED his daughter to enter the campus with a dSLR camera and zoom mic for video taping.
This was premeditated, and planned, and shows wilful violation of Apple's rules, and the NDA he signed.
And then he continued to let her post this video online. He's 100% responsible for his firing, and probable difficulties of being hired in his field in the future. No, I won't give him a break, and any ethical and moral person would say the same.
And if, for the sake of argument, if he was so stupid as to think no harm would come of this, then I'm glad Apple canned his dumb ass, as someone that stupid shouldn't be working for company like Apple in the first place.
How would you know this information? Have you been on the campus? Let me tell, cases like that go to court and the perspective might be very different for this guy, he may win his case against a firing! Be very careful, there is know way you know what happened!
It doesn't take a genius to understand some basic concepts about corporate protection policies, and again, as I stated in my post above, having worked for IBM, who in many regards is as secretive as Apple, their NDA contained ALL of the policies I mentioned above, and many more.
Your attempt at defending his actions shows complete ignorance, and demonstrates your lack of understanding about NDA's, and their legal standing, in general, or in the protections the company builds into them.
Perhaps you should watch the video again, that I linked in my main post, he incriminates himself beyond any possible defence.
dysamoria said: It's amazing how so many tech people side with "liberty" and slam government "control and overreach", but will still side with and promote draconian corporate policy in discussions of public issues between a company and an employee... so long as they're not the employee themselves.
Things are rarely so black and white as "you broke the rule and deserve whatever punishment is dealt", but these guys seem to be comfortable with nothing but.
Clearly, you’ve never been in a position to sign an NDA. I have, they ARE black and white, and for very good reasons already articulated far better than I could hope to
All the emotionalism and hand-wringing on display here is simply ill-informed.
Well-stated. I have to sign them all the time, and I have never seen a provision that says disclosure is authorized when your daughter says "please, daddy."
You know you better than anybody else does. If you know you can't or don't want to keep secrets, don't get a job that requires that.
Yep! Rules is Rules! (Except when it happens to a 'rules is rules' kind a guy).
lol. Let me know when you are capable of adding value to the discussion. This will be my last response to you until then.
One fact not mentioned. Not only did the father unlock the phone and give it to his daughter, an NDA violation, film within the campus itself, an NDA violation, but sometime after this, he must have given her access to this phone and allow her to connect it to her YouTube channel and upload the filming there.
Apple would unlikely ever found out about the first two violations, but for the third violation.
One fact not mentioned. Not only did the father unlock the phone and give it to his daughter, an NDA violation, film within the campus itself, an NDA violation, but sometime after this, he must have given her access to this phone and allow her to connect it to her YouTube channel and upload the filming there.
Apple would unlikely ever found out about the first two violations, but for the third violation.
Really quite stupid.
In my post above, I link to the video on Reddit, and at time index 0:09, the daughter can be seen holding a Canon dSLR camera with zoom microphone attached to the hot shoe, this was the actual camera doing the filming, and not the iPhone itself.
The entire video appears to have been shot using this dSLR.
Idiot. What is he doing letting ANYONE TOUCH unreleased hardware, let alone a teenager. I remember in the past when leaked PHOTOS appeared and what a ruckus that caused. A non authorized users touching unreleased hardware then posting a VIDEO. Come on now. At the very least that person can't be trusted to have access to anything restricted if he lets his kids use it. If I was in that field I wouldn't think of even taking hardware out of the office without written permission and guidelines to do so. I am sure there is an NDA outlining this with the results of violation. Apple HAS TO abide by the NDA they issued. Are they just supposed it say we didn't mean it? If there was anything negative suggested legal action would also be reasonable. Read what you sign and believe it. I have signed agreements to keep certain things confidential and always ask for written clarification of any grey areas. I doubt letting your kids use and post videos is a grey area. He couldn't wait just a few months and let her be the first person to have one on release day?
This does not violate NDA. Because Apple already disclosed iPhone X to the world.
Oh wow. Stop the presses! We have a post in this thread that's telling us something basic that everyone up until this point must have obviously missed!!
A reasonable person might ask how much it would have really cost Apple to ensure that phones could not film without first obtaining a code number or other authorization
You do realise that to film the iPhone X she had to use another camera, right? And Apple can't just add pattern recognition and block all other cameras in the world from filming their products without some sort of Apple code…
Not pattern recognition, no..but they have a patent on how to disable consumers from making videos where they are not welcome to do so.
Comments
You know you better than anybody else does. If you know you can't or don't want to keep secrets, don't get a job that requires that.
I am the biggest fan of shareholder capitalism, so save your sympathy for your like-minded fellow-men.
Let's summarize this video first:
Everyone here knows how secretive Apple is about their technologies, and adherence to rules of the company. In the summery outlined above, the father is just as complicit in the violations as the daughter, by actively participating in actions that are clearly outlined as forbidden, and being terminable offences, in the Apple NDA, which he signed as a condition of his employment at Apple. Having worked for IBM some years ago, I can attest to the NDA's mandated by large corporations to protect items such as proprietary technologies, facilities, employee privacy, and so on.
If, say, the father had placed the iPhone X down on the table while he went to the counter to get something, and his daughter surreptitiously started taping herself reviewing the iPhone X, that could "possibly" be then classified as negligence on the part of the father, and perhaps he may have gotten off with a temporary suspension, reprimand, or pay cut, whichever HR would deem suitable in that circumstance.
However, this was not a case of accidental exposure, it was wilful, starting with him allowing his daughter admittance onto the campus grounds with a large dSLR camera configured for video recording (outline of zoom mic can be seen attached to the camera hot shoe at time index 0:09), and later proceeding to assist his daughter by providing verbal information on the device, and performing an Animoji demo for her.
This demonstrates massive lack of judgement, deliberate intent, and violation of (likely) many clauses of his NDA signed with Apple.
In any corporate, or even public sector, employment situation, any one of those disclosures would be grounds for immediate dismissal, let alone all of them combined.
The argument made by individuals here that some of this information was already in the public domain is completely irrelevant. We forget to think about the illegal video taping of the Caffé Macs, the video taping of fellow employees whom did not provide any consent to being taped in an area which they feel is secured from this sort of action due to the same NDA they signed, ensuring privacy, and quite possibly other aspects I haven't touched on here.
The bulk of the blame here can be levelled against the father, starting with the moment he let her into the building with a dSLR around her neck, and THAT is the bottom line. This single action empowered the rest to transpire, so the full blame lays with him, and termination was the ONLY logical, and rational, course of action Apple could have taken in this instance.
The publicity of this termination, thus creating an atmosphere of distrust in his potential hiring by other firms, can be blamed on the daughter uploading this to the public domain, and also (still) on the father for allowing her to upload the video, so like the saying goes, he made his bed, now he must sleep in it.
All other points here, be it political, conspiracy, morality, are completely mute.
This was premeditated, and planned, and shows wilful violation of Apple's rules, and the NDA he signed.
And then he continued to let her post this video online. He's 100% responsible for his firing, and probable difficulties of being hired in his field in the future. No, I won't give him a break, and any ethical and moral person would say the same.
And if, for the sake of argument, if he was so stupid as to think no harm would come of this, then I'm glad Apple canned his dumb ass, as someone that stupid shouldn't be working for company like Apple in the first place.
Your attempt at defending his actions shows complete ignorance, and demonstrates your lack of understanding about NDA's, and their legal standing, in general, or in the protections the company builds into them.
Perhaps you should watch the video again, that I linked in my main post, he incriminates himself beyond any possible defence.
Apple would unlikely ever found out about the first two violations, but for the third violation.
Really quite stupid.
The entire video appears to have been shot using this dSLR.
Steve Jobs didn’t talk about unreleased products. There’s no double standard.
He couldn't wait just a few months and let her be the first person to have one on release day?
Oh wait... it's 196th...