Well no notch or one sided notch would still work well.
What to do with the iPod touch?
If Apple can secure a deal/ruling that cellular service is based on feature cost not device. Or even drop fall back radios and have and LTE only device with eSim now that VoLTE is broadly spread. Then an Upgraded iPodTouch could merge with the SE and sit at the same price point for those who don't want cell service, use the eSIM loader to get on-going payments carriers.
I think I'd rather have a 4.7" new phone instead of a 6.1" new phone. I feel that an iPhone X in the footprint of an iPhone SE would be a fantastic phone.
He’s just predicting common sense he’s no wizard or anything.
Logically Apple will sell a larger display which will be humongous because of lack of bezels.
what I would like to see in 2017:
Smaller notch Twice as many Dots in the projector InVisage Technology for better AR/FaceID
Why do you care how many dots are invisibly projected onto your face? Talk about a weird specification fetish.
Just saw on "The New Screen Savers" podcast the host Megan Morrone being viewed in slo-mo video through an infrared camera while using Face ID. It's interesting. The "dots" are more like a grid projected onto the face in extremely rapid fashion.
It’s really cool to see and it’s obviously a first gen product. I see Apple doubling the dots for better recognition and AR and increasing the range accuracy. TwinGate may be out the door.
SE update is expected next spring. It won't have an edge-to-edge display — it will be a budget model.
What’s this based on? I haven’t seen a single rumor yet.
Release patterns. A new SE is due this coming Spring or holiday 2018. I’ve been wanting an iPhone 6 style SE for years.
An iPhone X style SE would be even better but harder to pull off unless Apple plans to release SE in holiday 2018.
Heck they can make it the size and feel of the original iPhone with the same screen size of the 5. THAT would be interested because a lot of people liked both the screen of iPhone 5 but the smaller feel and fit of small iPhones.
I definitely would love to have an iPhone the size of the Plus model but all display like the iPhone X.
Exactly! We might have broken our every other year iPhone buying plan this year if they had. But truthfully, the X is having teething pains, because so much of it is new to Apple, that waiting until next year is likely a better bet anyway.
No reason to wait the iPhone X has a larger display than the Plus models TODAY!
No, it doesn’t. The display is longer, but a lot narrower. Go to a store and see for yourself. There’s a major difference in the size of the keyboard, and many keyboard features the + models have when in horizontal mode aren’t in the X model. You’re just repeating the same nonsense some others are by looking at the (unintentional by Apple) deceptive 5.8” number rather than the 5.5” number.
we see the same thing with 10.5” Android tablets vs the 9.7” iPads. The Android tablet screen sounds larger, but area wise, it’s a lot smaller because of the 16:9 ratio rather than the iPad’s 3:2 ratio.
I see. Sorry I was going by graphs and anecdotal conversations at the Apple Store. People were laying the X on top of their Plus and exclaiming “wow the screen is actually larger”. I didn’t doubt it after seeings graphs like the one pictured.
but really are you gonna skip the phone over a few centimeters?
Yes. Because that seemingly small number makes a big difference when I type. I found that going to the 6+ when it first came out lowered my typing errors noticably. I don’t want to go backwards. In addition, as I mentioned, you don’t get the better horizontal keyboard of the + models. It’s the same keyboard as the regular sized phones, and that’s a big difference there too. Actually, the bigger screen gives a lot more info. Maps is much better, editing photos is much better. It’s just much better in every way.
Apple can start multi years long iPhone cycle with different frame size with edge to edge, faceid iPhones. or Apple just take current non X iPhones frames(SE,8,8PLUS) and make it edge to edge like X, than along side add 6" plus model. Every palm size covered.
I find it hard to believe Apple will release a phone that’s 5.8 and 6.1 and 6.5 even if the middle one is cheaper and less expensive, I find it more believable that Apple will release a 5.2, 5.8 and 6.5 Span.
SE update is expected next spring. It won't have an edge-to-edge display — it will be a budget model.
I'm sticking to my prediction of two X's next year no upgrade to iPhone 8 and no new SE till 2019 where it will be the same albeit with an A12 by which time the X's will be on A13
I loved my 6 Plus which I used for 3 years but now realize that the size of the iPhone X is much more comfortable. I’ll stay with this size going forward if Apple keeps it available
Has anyone thought if Apple just took current LCD iPhones 8 and Plus frame and put thin or edge to edge LCD Face-ID than what that screen size would be ?
Has anyone thought if Apple just took current LCD iPhones 8 and Plus frame and put thin or edge to edge LCD Face-ID than what that screen size would be ?
The problem is that there isn’t an edge to edge LCD. Several years ago some small company claimed to have one, but nothing came of it. Don’t you think if they existed, companies would have been using them?
Has anyone thought if Apple just took current LCD iPhones 8 and Plus frame and put thin or edge to edge LCD Face-ID than what that screen size would be ?
The problem is that there isn’t an edge to edge LCD. Several years ago some small company claimed to have one, but nothing came of it. Don’t you think if they existed, companies would have been using them?
Xiaomi Mi Mix has LCD display AND 83% screen to body ratio. It is not edge to edge (and with many other unacceptable compromises for an iPhone), but even a high screen to body ratio such as 78% to 80% (like LG G6 which also has LCD display) would serve the purpose unlike the current 8 plus which has 68% (the worst screen to body ratio of ALL phones which has a 5.5 inch display), isn't it?
He’s just predicting common sense he’s no wizard or anything.
Logically Apple will sell a larger display which will be humongous because of lack of bezels.
what I would like to see in 2017:
Smaller notch Twice as many Dots in the projector InVisage Technology for better AR/FaceID
Why do you care how many dots are invisibly projected onto your face? Talk about a weird specification fetish.
Just saw on "The New Screen Savers" podcast the host Megan Morrone being viewed in slo-mo video through an infrared camera while using Face ID. It's interesting. The "dots" are more like a grid projected onto the face in extremely rapid fashion.
It’s really cool to see and it’s obviously a first gen product. I see Apple doubling the dots for better recognition and AR and increasing the range accuracy. TwinGate may be out the door
I'm sorry, there is nothing "creative" about taking some technical specification that is part of a complex system and arbitrarily saying that you wish that number were twice as big. We have no way of knowing how much better FaceID would be with twice as many dots; in fact twice as many dots may be counterproductive at this point (increased compute time required with minimal increase in discrimination). Why not argue for doubling the resolution of the fingerprint reader in TouchID or doubling the power of the camera flash? This is what I mean by specification fetish. And the fact is there is no "twingate" to deal with. How many possible iPhone X purchasers are there who a) are worried that there is someone who looks exactly like them who they will come in contact with but don't trust and b) would change their purchase decision if told that the next iPhone does a better job distinguishing twins? This is not a meaningful population in any sense of the word.
Now if you'd said, "I hope Apple keeps improving FaceID like they did with TouchID" no one would argue with you. It's only the faux-expert suggestion that Apple should double the number of "dots" that I called you out on. Personally, I expect more advances for FaceID based on the back end (the processing of the inputs) than from improving the dot projection in the short term.
Has anyone thought if Apple just took current LCD iPhones 8 and Plus frame and put thin or edge to edge LCD Face-ID than what that screen size would be ?
The problem is that there isn’t an edge to edge LCD. Several years ago some small company claimed to have one, but nothing came of it. Don’t you think if they existed, companies would have been using them?
Xiaomi Mi Mix has LCD display AND 83% screen to body ratio. It is not edge to edge (and with many other unacceptable compromises for an iPhone), but even a high screen to body ratio such as 78% to 80% (like LG G6 which also has LCD display) would serve the purpose unlike the current 8 plus which has 68% (the worst screen to body ratio of ALL phones which has a 5.5 inch display), isn't it?
It’s still not edge to edge. The screen body ratio they have doesn’t need edge to edge, just getting rid of most of the top and bottom shelves will do it. Really, look at how thin the edges of the LCD iPhone screen is now. It’s just 3/32”. That’s not much. That’s all we’re talking about. It’s not the edge to edge screen that the problem, it’s the shelves.
the smaller Pixel, and a number of others, look almost like an iPhone from the front. It’s not just the iPhone. It doesn’t matter what size the screen is, though ironically, the larger screen phones do better in this, not worse. That’s because the shelves are the same height in an iPhone, no matter how big the screen. So big screened phones have a better screen to surface area ratio than smaller ones.
He’s just predicting common sense he’s no wizard or anything.
Logically Apple will sell a larger display which will be humongous because of lack of bezels.
what I would like to see in 2017:
Smaller notch Twice as many Dots in the projector InVisage Technology for better AR/FaceID
Why do you care how many dots are invisibly projected onto your face? Talk about a weird specification fetish.
Just saw on "The New Screen Savers" podcast the host Megan Morrone being viewed in slo-mo video through an infrared camera while using Face ID. It's interesting. The "dots" are more like a grid projected onto the face in extremely rapid fashion.
It’s really cool to see and it’s obviously a first gen product. I see Apple doubling the dots for better recognition and AR and increasing the range accuracy. TwinGate may be out the door
I'm sorry, there is nothing "creative" about taking some technical specification that is part of a complex system and arbitrarily saying that you wish that number were twice as big. We have no way of knowing how much better FaceID would be with twice as many dots; in fact twice as many dots may be counterproductive at this point (increased compute time required with minimal increase in discrimination). Why not argue for doubling the resolution of the fingerprint reader in TouchID or doubling the power of the camera flash? This is what I mean by specification fetish. And the fact is there is no "twingate" to deal with. How many possible iPhone X purchasers are there who a) are worried that there is someone who looks exactly like them who they will come in contact with but don't trust and b) would change their purchase decision if told that the next iPhone does a better job distinguishing twins? This is not a meaningful population in any sense of the word.
Now if you'd said, "I hope Apple keeps improving FaceID like they did with TouchID" no one would argue with you. It's only the faux-expert suggestion that Apple should double the number of "dots" that I called you out on. Personally, I expect more advances for FaceID based on the back end (the processing of the inputs) than from improving the dot projection in the short term.
A lot of people don’t understand technology, though because they use it, they assume they do.
every sensor technology has an ideal point at which improvement in that area yields nothing. For Touch ID, the resolution is sufficient to read any detail that means anything for ID purposes. Going to a higher resolution gives nothing. There are some pretty heavy technical articles on this from scientists in a couple of universities. I’ve linked to them in the past.
the same thing it true for Face ID. Is Apple’s the best there can be? Likely not. But not necessarily because more dots are needed. If you see renditions of what the dots look like one the face, you can see that they almost touch. There hardly any room for more. So it seems as thought they are plenty. In addition, that’s the hardest part to make, and the one that’s been holding production up, though it’s getting better.
making a tiny chip, which looks to be about 3/16” square, with a lens array of 30,000 lenses fit exactly over that IR led projector, is extremely difficult. Those dots need to be projected exactly correctly for a good two feet out. If I didn’t know that it was being done, I’d say that it was almost impossible! Making it with more dots would likely make it impossible.
so really, it’s the software, and the neural chip that makes this all work. Once the IR camera reads those dots, and sends it back, it’s the magic behind that does all the work. It seems to me that it’s the software that is where we’ll see improvements in positives and negatives. And that’s something that’s backwards compatible. So next year, with an OS update, Face ID will become better.
Has anyone thought if Apple just took current LCD iPhones 8 and Plus frame and put thin or edge to edge LCD Face-ID than what that screen size would be ?
The problem is that there isn’t an edge to edge LCD. Several years ago some small company claimed to have one, but nothing came of it. Don’t you think if they existed, companies would have been using them?
Xiaomi Mi Mix has LCD display AND 83% screen to body ratio. It is not edge to edge (and with many other unacceptable compromises for an iPhone), but even a high screen to body ratio such as 78% to 80% (like LG G6 which also has LCD display) would serve the purpose unlike the current 8 plus which has 68% (the worst screen to body ratio of ALL phones which has a 5.5 inch display), isn't it?
It’s still not edge to edge. The screen body ratio they have doesn’t need edge to edge, just getting rid of most of the top and bottom shelves will do it. Really, look at how thin the edges of the LCD iPhone screen is now. It’s just 3/32”. That’s not much. That’s all we’re talking about. It’s not the edge to edge screen that the problem, it’s the shelves.
the smaller Pixel, and a number of others, look almost like an iPhone from the front. It’s not just the iPhone. It doesn’t matter what size the screen is, though ironically, the larger screen phones do better in this, not worse. That’s because the shelves are the same height in an iPhone, no matter how big the screen. So big screened phones have a better screen to surface area ratio than smaller ones.
Agreed. But the comment from @wood1208 should be seen in context. The OP was expecting a much larger display diagonal in the same dimensions as iPhone 8 & 8 Plus, with minimal bezels AND LCD display (for cutting costs or may be his preferred choice of display technology). I thought this was a fairly reasonable ask, but your response seemed to suggest otherwise. Am I missing something here?
Has anyone thought if Apple just took current LCD iPhones 8 and Plus frame and put thin or edge to edge LCD Face-ID than what that screen size would be ?
The problem is that there isn’t an edge to edge LCD. Several years ago some small company claimed to have one, but nothing came of it. Don’t you think if they existed, companies would have been using them?
Xiaomi Mi Mix has LCD display AND 83% screen to body ratio. It is not edge to edge (and with many other unacceptable compromises for an iPhone), but even a high screen to body ratio such as 78% to 80% (like LG G6 which also has LCD display) would serve the purpose unlike the current 8 plus which has 68% (the worst screen to body ratio of ALL phones which has a 5.5 inch display), isn't it?
It’s still not edge to edge. The screen body ratio they have doesn’t need edge to edge, just getting rid of most of the top and bottom shelves will do it. Really, look at how thin the edges of the LCD iPhone screen is now. It’s just 3/32”. That’s not much. That’s all we’re talking about. It’s not the edge to edge screen that the problem, it’s the shelves.
the smaller Pixel, and a number of others, look almost like an iPhone from the front. It’s not just the iPhone. It doesn’t matter what size the screen is, though ironically, the larger screen phones do better in this, not worse. That’s because the shelves are the same height in an iPhone, no matter how big the screen. So big screened phones have a better screen to surface area ratio than smaller ones.
Agreed. But the comment from @wood1208 should be seen in context. The OP was expecting a much larger display diagonal in the same dimensions as iPhone 8 & 8 Plus, with minimal bezels AND LCD display (for cutting costs or may be his preferred choice of display technology). I thought this was a fairly reasonable ask, but your response seemed to suggest otherwise. Am I missing something here?
I find it difficult to understand what he’s expecting. So, for example, the bezel widths on the LCD is always going to be the same 3/32” per edge. So that comes out to a total of 3/16” that’s it! That’s not much. We’re “losing” 3/16” screen width, and height, because of the screen bezels. Percentage wise, that’s minuscule. The larger the screen, the less that matters as a percentage. So, in reality, it doesn’t mean much. That’s for Apple’s standard 16:9 screen. If we eliminate the top and bottom shelves, then we gain that screen height. So that’s where it comes from, even with those small screen bezels.
then, we get a full surface screen, minus the chop in the middle of the top because of the cameras, sensors, speakers, etc. So, what exactly is he expecting? If it’s the same bezelless screen as the OLED - he’s not going to get it.
Has anyone thought if Apple just took current LCD iPhones 8 and Plus frame and put thin or edge to edge LCD Face-ID than what that screen size would be ?
The problem is that there isn’t an edge to edge LCD. Several years ago some small company claimed to have one, but nothing came of it. Don’t you think if they existed, companies would have been using them?
Xiaomi Mi Mix has LCD display AND 83% screen to body ratio. It is not edge to edge (and with many other unacceptable compromises for an iPhone), but even a high screen to body ratio such as 78% to 80% (like LG G6 which also has LCD display) would serve the purpose unlike the current 8 plus which has 68% (the worst screen to body ratio of ALL phones which has a 5.5 inch display), isn't it?
It’s still not edge to edge. The screen body ratio they have doesn’t need edge to edge, just getting rid of most of the top and bottom shelves will do it. Really, look at how thin the edges of the LCD iPhone screen is now. It’s just 3/32”. That’s not much. That’s all we’re talking about. It’s not the edge to edge screen that the problem, it’s the shelves.
the smaller Pixel, and a number of others, look almost like an iPhone from the front. It’s not just the iPhone. It doesn’t matter what size the screen is, though ironically, the larger screen phones do better in this, not worse. That’s because the shelves are the same height in an iPhone, no matter how big the screen. So big screened phones have a better screen to surface area ratio than smaller ones.
Agreed. But the comment from @wood1208 should be seen in context. The OP was expecting a much larger display diagonal in the same dimensions as iPhone 8 & 8 Plus, with minimal bezels AND LCD display (for cutting costs or may be his preferred choice of display technology). I thought this was a fairly reasonable ask, but your response seemed to suggest otherwise. Am I missing something here?
I find it difficult to understand what he’s expecting. So, for example, the bezel widths on the LCD is always going to be the same 3/32” per edge. So that comes out to a total of 3/16” that’s it! That’s not much. We’re “losing” 3/16” screen width, and height, because of the screen bezels. Percentage wise, that’s minuscule. The larger the screen, the less that matters as a percentage. So, in reality, it doesn’t mean much. That’s for Apple’s standard 16:9 screen. If we eliminate the top and bottom shelves, then we gain that screen height. So that’s where it comes from, even with those small screen bezels.
then, we get a full surface screen, minus the chop in the middle of the top because of the cameras, sensors, speakers, etc. So, what exactly is he expecting? If it’s the same bezelless screen as the OLED - he’s not going to get it.
The way I understood is - Couple of LCD iPhones with much larger display area than 8/8+ due to trimming of bezels (top and bottom for sure, side bezels to the extent possible), which makes screen to body ratio anywhere close to 80% as opposed to 68% currently. This would make the phone have a much larger display diagonal as compared to what we see with giant bezels in 8 & 8 Plus.
I also forgot to mention - not necessarily 16:9 ratio display. More like 19.5:9, similar to iPhone X. Not that I agree with that idea, but I guess that is what people imply when they talk about much larger screen in similar dimensions.
Has anyone thought if Apple just took current LCD iPhones 8 and Plus frame and put thin or edge to edge LCD Face-ID than what that screen size would be ?
The problem is that there isn’t an edge to edge LCD. Several years ago some small company claimed to have one, but nothing came of it. Don’t you think if they existed, companies would have been using them?
Xiaomi Mi Mix has LCD display AND 83% screen to body ratio. It is not edge to edge (and with many other unacceptable compromises for an iPhone), but even a high screen to body ratio such as 78% to 80% (like LG G6 which also has LCD display) would serve the purpose unlike the current 8 plus which has 68% (the worst screen to body ratio of ALL phones which has a 5.5 inch display), isn't it?
It’s still not edge to edge. The screen body ratio they have doesn’t need edge to edge, just getting rid of most of the top and bottom shelves will do it. Really, look at how thin the edges of the LCD iPhone screen is now. It’s just 3/32”. That’s not much. That’s all we’re talking about. It’s not the edge to edge screen that the problem, it’s the shelves.
the smaller Pixel, and a number of others, look almost like an iPhone from the front. It’s not just the iPhone. It doesn’t matter what size the screen is, though ironically, the larger screen phones do better in this, not worse. That’s because the shelves are the same height in an iPhone, no matter how big the screen. So big screened phones have a better screen to surface area ratio than smaller ones.
Agreed. But the comment from @wood1208 should be seen in context. The OP was expecting a much larger display diagonal in the same dimensions as iPhone 8 & 8 Plus, with minimal bezels AND LCD display (for cutting costs or may be his preferred choice of display technology). I thought this was a fairly reasonable ask, but your response seemed to suggest otherwise. Am I missing something here?
I find it difficult to understand what he’s expecting. So, for example, the bezel widths on the LCD is always going to be the same 3/32” per edge. So that comes out to a total of 3/16” that’s it! That’s not much. We’re “losing” 3/16” screen width, and height, because of the screen bezels. Percentage wise, that’s minuscule. The larger the screen, the less that matters as a percentage. So, in reality, it doesn’t mean much. That’s for Apple’s standard 16:9 screen. If we eliminate the top and bottom shelves, then we gain that screen height. So that’s where it comes from, even with those small screen bezels.
then, we get a full surface screen, minus the chop in the middle of the top because of the cameras, sensors, speakers, etc. So, what exactly is he expecting? If it’s the same bezelless screen as the OLED - he’s not going to get it.
The way I understood is - Couple of LCD iPhones with much larger display area than 8/8+ due to trimming of bezels (top and bottom for sure, side bezels to the extent possible), which makes screen to body ratio anywhere close to 80% as opposed to 68% currently. This would make the phone have a much larger display diagonal as compared to what we see with giant bezels in 8 & 8 Plus.
Well yes, getting rid of the shelves, which you are calling bezels, which are really the thin black lines around the screen, will give you a longer display. That what I’ve been saying to you in my posts.
Comments
What to do with the iPod touch?
If Apple can secure a deal/ruling that cellular service is based on feature cost not device. Or even drop fall back radios and have and LTE only device with eSim now that VoLTE is broadly spread. Then an Upgraded iPodTouch could merge with the SE and sit at the same price point for those who don't want cell service, use the eSIM loader to get on-going payments carriers.
Yes. Because that seemingly small number makes a big difference when I type. I found that going to the 6+ when it first came out lowered my typing errors noticably. I don’t want to go backwards. In addition, as I mentioned, you don’t get the better horizontal keyboard of the + models. It’s the same keyboard as the regular sized phones, and that’s a big difference there too. Actually, the bigger screen gives a lot more info. Maps is much better, editing photos is much better. It’s just much better in every way.
I'm sorry, there is nothing "creative" about taking some technical specification that is part of a complex system and arbitrarily saying that you wish that number were twice as big. We have no way of knowing how much better FaceID would be with twice as many dots; in fact twice as many dots may be counterproductive at this point (increased compute time required with minimal increase in discrimination). Why not argue for doubling the resolution of the fingerprint reader in TouchID or doubling the power of the camera flash? This is what I mean by specification fetish. And the fact is there is no "twingate" to deal with. How many possible iPhone X purchasers are there who a) are worried that there is someone who looks exactly like them who they will come in contact with but don't trust and b) would change their purchase decision if told that the next iPhone does a better job distinguishing twins? This is not a meaningful population in any sense of the word.
Now if you'd said, "I hope Apple keeps improving FaceID like they did with TouchID" no one would argue with you. It's only the faux-expert suggestion that Apple should double the number of "dots" that I called you out on. Personally, I expect more advances for FaceID based on the back end (the processing of the inputs) than from improving the dot projection in the short term.
the smaller Pixel, and a number of others, look almost like an iPhone from the front. It’s not just the iPhone. It doesn’t matter what size the screen is, though ironically, the larger screen phones do better in this, not worse. That’s because the shelves are the same height in an iPhone, no matter how big the screen. So big screened phones have a better screen to surface area ratio than smaller ones.
A lot of people don’t understand technology, though because they use it, they assume they do.
every sensor technology has an ideal point at which improvement in that area yields nothing. For Touch ID, the resolution is sufficient to read any detail that means anything for ID purposes. Going to a higher resolution gives nothing. There are some pretty heavy technical articles on this from scientists in a couple of universities. I’ve linked to them in the past.
the same thing it true for Face ID. Is Apple’s the best there can be? Likely not. But not necessarily because more dots are needed. If you see renditions of what the dots look like one the face, you can see that they almost touch. There hardly any room for more. So it seems as thought they are plenty. In addition, that’s the hardest part to make, and the one that’s been holding production up, though it’s getting better.
making a tiny chip, which looks to be about 3/16” square, with a lens array of 30,000 lenses fit exactly over that IR led projector, is extremely difficult. Those dots need to be projected exactly correctly for a good two feet out. If I didn’t know that it was being done, I’d say that it was almost impossible! Making it with more dots would likely make it impossible.
so really, it’s the software, and the neural chip that makes this all work. Once the IR camera reads those dots, and sends it back, it’s the magic behind that does all the work. It seems to me that it’s the software that is where we’ll see improvements in positives and negatives. And that’s something that’s backwards compatible. So next year, with an OS update, Face ID will become better.
then, we get a full surface screen, minus the chop in the middle of the top because of the cameras, sensors, speakers, etc. So, what exactly is he expecting? If it’s the same bezelless screen as the OLED - he’s not going to get it.