I had no idea they were building an Apple "gathering place" in downtown Brooklyn. For a company some think is going out of business, they sure are opening a lot of new Apple places. However, two stores in Crooklyn and not even one in Queens seems a bit unfair. Not that it matters because I always purchase products directly from Apple's online site.
There's an Apple store in the Queens Center Mall on Queens Blvd and Woodhaven Blvd. And it has nothing to do with fairness or unfairness. It has to do with who lives in each place and the incremental revenue Apple can gather from another store. Indian (and maybe Chinese) food aside, Queens also has really lousy restaurants compared to Brooklyn, but that's the way it is. Queens is not a very hip place (I live there).
Some years ago, the Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz tried to get Apple to move into a location in downtown Brooklyn closer to Brooklyn Heights, I believe on the southeast corner of Court Street and Joralemon, but Apple didn't want to be there, although much of downtown Brooklyn has been completely transformed. Large parts of it are unrecognizable from 20 years ago.
No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot. Net sales were $215 billion in calendar 2016. Net income was $48.7 billion. Net sales were $131 billion the first half of this year. The stock is just 0.57% of its 52-week (and all-time) high and 67% above it's 52-week low. Apple and Exxon-Mobil constantly switch places as to which has the highest market capitalization. Apple Services is almost at the level where if spun-off, it could be a Fortune 500 company all by itself and most people never even think much about it.
No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot.
Oh contraire, mon frère. There are millions of blithering idiots who think just that and some of them post right here in AI. It comes in all forms, usually starting with “Steve would never have allowed this,” followed by “Apple has lost its way,” and the ever popular “Apple can’t innovate anymore”. And let’s not forget the “QA has gone done tremendously since Steve died” talking point. All of these are expressions of blithering idiots who think Apple is about to fail, is failing, has failed.
Less than two years ago I was in a conversation with a person holding an iPhone in their hand and admiring it. I said they should go to the local Apple store and take a look at some of the colors and models. Their response? “Apple, I though they went out of business.”
I had no idea they were building an Apple "gathering place" in downtown Brooklyn. For a company some think is going out of business, they sure are opening a lot of new Apple places. However, two stores in Crooklyn and not even one in Queens seems a bit unfair. Not that it matters because I always purchase products directly from Apple's online site.
There's an Apple store in the Queens Center Mall on Queens Blvd and Woodhaven Blvd. And it has nothing to do with fairness or unfairness. It has to do with who lives in each place and the incremental revenue Apple can gather from another store. Indian (and maybe Chinese) food aside, Queens also has really lousy restaurants compared to Brooklyn, but that's the way it is. Queens is not a very hip place (I live there).
Some years ago, the Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz tried to get Apple to move into a location in downtown Brooklyn closer to Brooklyn Heights, I believe on the southeast corner of Court Street and Joralemon, but Apple didn't want to be there, although much of downtown Brooklyn has been completely transformed. Large parts of it are unrecognizable from 20 years ago.
No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot. Net sales were $215 billion in calendar 2016. Net income was $48.7 billion. Net sales were $131 billion the first half of this year. The stock is just 0.57% of its 52-week (and all-time) high and 67% above it's 52-week low. Apple and Exxon-Mobil constantly switch places as to which has the highest market capitalization. Apple Services is almost at the level where if spun-off, it could be a Fortune 500 company all by itself and most people never even think much about it.
I wish Markowitz had won out — I'm in the heights! Haha
I had no idea they were building an Apple "gathering place" in downtown Brooklyn. For a company some think is going out of business, they sure are opening a lot of new Apple places. However, two stores in Crooklyn and not even one in Queens seems a bit unfair. Not that it matters because I always purchase products directly from Apple's online site.
There's an Apple store in the Queens Center Mall on Queens Blvd and Woodhaven Blvd. And it has nothing to do with fairness or unfairness. It has to do with who lives in each place and the incremental revenue Apple can gather from another store. Indian (and maybe Chinese) food aside, Queens also has really lousy restaurants compared to Brooklyn, but that's the way it is. Queens is not a very hip place (I live there).
Some years ago, the Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz tried to get Apple to move into a location in downtown Brooklyn closer to Brooklyn Heights, I believe on the southeast corner of Court Street and Joralemon, but Apple didn't want to be there, although much of downtown Brooklyn has been completely transformed. Large parts of it are unrecognizable from 20 years ago.
No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot. Net sales were $215 billion in calendar 2016. Net income was $48.7 billion. Net sales were $131 billion the first half of this year. The stock is just 0.57% of its 52-week (and all-time) high and 67% above it's 52-week low. Apple and Exxon-Mobil constantly switch places as to which has the highest market capitalization. Apple Services is almost at the level where if spun-off, it could be a Fortune 500 company all by itself and most people never even think much about it.
Exxon is less than half the market cap of Apple these days. It’s been years since it was even close. And Apple services is now the size of a Fortune 400 company. Yeah, it’ll be fine.
I had no idea they were building an Apple "gathering place" in downtown Brooklyn. For a company some think is going out of business, they sure are opening a lot of new Apple places. However, two stores in Crooklyn and not even one in Queens seems a bit unfair. Not that it matters because I always purchase products directly from Apple's online site.
There's an Apple store in the Queens Center Mall on Queens Blvd and Woodhaven Blvd. And it has nothing to do with fairness or unfairness. It has to do with who lives in each place and the incremental revenue Apple can gather from another store. Indian (and maybe Chinese) food aside, Queens also has really lousy restaurants compared to Brooklyn, but that's the way it is. Queens is not a very hip place (I live there).
Some years ago, the Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz tried to get Apple to move into a location in downtown Brooklyn closer to Brooklyn Heights, I believe on the southeast corner of Court Street and Joralemon, but Apple didn't want to be there, although much of downtown Brooklyn has been completely transformed. Large parts of it are unrecognizable from 20 years ago.
No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot. Net sales were $215 billion in calendar 2016. Net income was $48.7 billion. Net sales were $131 billion the first half of this year. The stock is just 0.57% of its 52-week (and all-time) high and 67% above it's 52-week low. Apple and Exxon-Mobil constantly switch places as to which has the highest market capitalization. Apple Services is almost at the level where if spun-off, it could be a Fortune 500 company all by itself and most people never even think much about it.
Exxon is less than half the market cap of Apple these days. It’s been years since it was even close. And Apple services is now the size of a Fortune 400 company. Yeah, it’ll be fine.
I recently read that the Apple Watch division is now bigger than than the iPod division during its heyday.
fmalloy said: The window manufacturer said "it's the strongest glass yet".
23% stronger than our previous glass.
zoetmb said: No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot. Net sales were $215 billion in calendar 2016. Net income was $48.7 billion. Net sales were $131 billion the first half of this year. The stock is just 0.57% of its 52-week (and all-time) high and 67% above it's 52-week low. Apple and Exxon-Mobil constantly switch places as to which has the highest market capitalization. Apple Services is almost at the level where if spun-off, it could be a Fortune 500 company all by itself and most people never even think much about it.
Ever heard of Novell? I'm a Novell CNE. Once, they were pretty much the company in tech and computer networking. The industry revolved around them. How about Kodak? Enron? Blockbuster? Reader's Digest? Myspace?
As I said earlier, even the doomsayers don't think they are headed anywhere soon. But, once they complete their transition to a fashion brand, and then go out of style, what then? Look at that building, and the 'space ship' and imagine how fast they are burning through cash (they are fortunately making a lot of right now). Imagine how fast the collapse could be?
lkrupp said: Oh contraire, mon frère. There are millions of blithering idiots who think just that and some of them post right here in AI. It comes in all forms, usually starting with “Steve would never have allowed this,” followed by “Apple has lost its way,” and the ever popular “Apple can’t innovate anymore”. And let’s not forget the “QA has gone done tremendously since Steve died” talking point. All of these are expressions of blithering idiots who think Apple is about to fail, is failing, has failed.
Less than two years ago I was in a conversation with a person holding an iPhone in their hand and admiring it. I said they should go to the local Apple store and take a look at some of the colors and models. Their response? “Apple, I though they went out of business.”
And... I've been arguing with the latter kind of blithering idiots for decades. But, I think you're selling short some of us in the former group who used to be Apple's biggest fans. There's a huge difference between the 'tech industry experts' and journalists and 'investors' and such who never really got it until Apple's numbers got too huge to ignore... and those of us who've probably spent way too much of our life paying close attention. Just because we're not fanboys doesn't mean we're blithering idiots. (The fanboys have always been around as well.)
radarthekat said: Exxon is less than half the market cap of Apple these days. It’s been years since it was even close. And Apple services is now the size of a Fortune 400 company. Yeah, it’ll be fine.
I worked at a nearly Fortune 50 company, that last I checked was on it's way between 150 and 200. If you don't do the right things, you won't stay there.
I had no idea they were building an Apple "gathering place" in downtown Brooklyn. For a company some think is going out of business, they sure are opening a lot of new Apple places. However, two stores in Crooklyn and not even one in Queens seems a bit unfair. Not that it matters because I always purchase products directly from Apple's online site.
There's an Apple store in the Queens Center Mall on Queens Blvd and Woodhaven Blvd. And it has nothing to do with fairness or unfairness. It has to do with who lives in each place and the incremental revenue Apple can gather from another store. Indian (and maybe Chinese) food aside, Queens also has really lousy restaurants compared to Brooklyn, but that's the way it is. Queens is not a very hip place (I live there).
Some years ago, the Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz tried to get Apple to move into a location in downtown Brooklyn closer to Brooklyn Heights, I believe on the southeast corner of Court Street and Joralemon, but Apple didn't want to be there, although much of downtown Brooklyn has been completely transformed. Large parts of it are unrecognizable from 20 years ago.
No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot. Net sales were $215 billion in calendar 2016. Net income was $48.7 billion. Net sales were $131 billion the first half of this year. The stock is just 0.57% of its 52-week (and all-time) high and 67% above it's 52-week low. Apple and Exxon-Mobil constantly switch places as to which has the highest market capitalization. Apple Services is almost at the level where if spun-off, it could be a Fortune 500 company all by itself and most people never even think much about it.
Flushing, Queens has some of the best Chinese food in NYC and arguably one of the best Thai places, SriPraPhai, as well. Hip is in the eye of the Hipster. But again, some would argue that Long Island City and several other hotspots are (becoming) hip, in the position of what Brooklyn was a couple decades ago. With gentrification pushing out many in my home borough, Queens is looking more and more like the place to move before it too becomes expensive.
zoetmb said: No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot. Net sales were $215 billion in calendar 2016. Net income was $48.7 billion. Net sales were $131 billion the first half of this year. The stock is just 0.57% of its 52-week (and all-time) high and 67% above it's 52-week low. Apple and Exxon-Mobil constantly switch places as to which has the highest market capitalization. Apple Services is almost at the level where if spun-off, it could be a Fortune 500 company all by itself and most people never even think much about it.
Ever heard of Novell? I'm a Novell CNE. Once, they were pretty much the company in tech and computer networking. The industry revolved around them. How about Kodak? Enron? Blockbuster? Reader's Digest? Myspace?
As I said earlier, even the doomsayers don't think they are headed anywhere soon. But, once they complete their transition to a fashion brand, and then go out of style, what then? Look at that building, and the 'space ship' and imagine how fast they are burning through cash (they are fortunately making a lot of right now). Imagine how fast the collapse could be?
It's reasonable to say that one day Apple will no longer be at the top or even exist, but I can't get on-board a statement that says they're "burning through cash" when the one of biggest complaint about the company is that they don't spend enough of their earnings.
They have over $600 billion in cash and assets, if they never made another dime and their brand, IP, and all other aspects of the company are nullified they could still run for two more decades based on their 10-K filing showing $26.8 billion for 2017's operating expenses.
Of course, that scenario is impossible ,and then there's a lot they could do to keep it going, like we've seen with countless other failing companies (which includes Apple before Steve Jobs came back to nest).
Sure, their Watch may not be fashionable forever, but that's not the primary reason people are interested in the device. I think it's likely they'll keep increasing the fashion aspect of the device, just as every year we've seen new band colors, styles, designs, and materials. They're already doing what other smartwatch makers didn't do and also catering to women and ordinary people, not just geeks.
Other vendors need to follow suit but Swatch and Rolex can't do electronics well, will never have the options Apple has with even pairing to an iPhone, and Android and Samsung have shown no talent or understanding of making something fashionable. FitBit may be able to keep afloat with a device that is primarily a fitness tracker and other vendors, like Withings/Nokia, have regular looking watches that do base fitness tracking and offer Bluetooth, but I wouldn't classify those devices as being a direct threat to Apple—but let's say they eventually start to take marketshare from the Watch, it wouldn't be difficult for Apple to come down to their level while beating them on price, quality, and functionality.
zoetmb said: No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot. Net sales were $215 billion in calendar 2016. Net income was $48.7 billion. Net sales were $131 billion the first half of this year. The stock is just 0.57% of its 52-week (and all-time) high and 67% above it's 52-week low. Apple and Exxon-Mobil constantly switch places as to which has the highest market capitalization. Apple Services is almost at the level where if spun-off, it could be a Fortune 500 company all by itself and most people never even think much about it.
Ever heard of Novell? I'm a Novell CNE. Once, they were pretty much the company in tech and computer networking. The industry revolved around them. How about Kodak? Enron? Blockbuster? Reader's Digest? Myspace?
As I said earlier, even the doomsayers don't think they are headed anywhere soon. But, once they complete their transition to a fashion brand, and then go out of style, what then? Look at that building, and the 'space ship' and imagine how fast they are burning through cash (they are fortunately making a lot of right now). Imagine how fast the collapse could be?
It's reasonable to say that one day Apple will no longer be at the top or even exist, but I can't get on-board a statement that says they're "burning through cash" when the one of biggest complaint about the company is that they don't spend enough of their earnings.
They have over $600 billion in cash and assets, if they never made another dime and their brand, IP, and all other aspects of the company are nullified they could still run for two more decades based on their 10-K filing showing $26.8 billion for 2017's operating expenses.
Of course, that scenario is impossible ,and then there's a lot they could do to keep it going, like we've seen with countless other failing companies (which includes Apple before Steve Jobs came back to nest).
Sure, their Watch may not be fashionable forever, but that's not the primary reason people are interested in the device. I think it's likely they'll keep increasing the fashion aspect of the device, just as every year we've seen new band colors, styles, designs, and materials. They're already doing what other smartwatch makers didn't do and also catering to women and ordinary people, not just geeks.
Other vendors need to follow suit but Swatch and Rolex can't do electronics well, will never have the options Apple has with even pairing to an iPhone, and Android and Samsung have shown no talent or understanding of making something fashionable. FitBit may be able to keep afloat with a device that is primarily a fitness tracker and other vendors, like Withings/Nokia, have regular looking watches that do base fitness tracking and offer Bluetooth, but I wouldn't classify those devices as being a direct threat to Apple—but let's say they eventually start to take marketshare from the Watch, it wouldn't be difficult for Apple to come down to their level while beating them on price, quality, and functionality.
Well said. Also, the goal of Apple was never to be the largest, most profitable company on the planet. If Apple is still making great products that make people's lives better (and they are on solid financial ground) 20 years from now, they'll be successful on their own terms--whether they the most valuable company in the world or the 100th most valuable. As an AAPL investor, I love the fact that Apple has done spectacularly well. As a lover of Apple products, I don't really care about their financial benchmarks.
Soli said: It's reasonable to say that one day Apple will no longer be at the top or even exist, but I can't get on-board a statement that says they're "burning through cash" when the one of biggest complaint about the company is that they don't spend enough of their earnings.
They have over $600 billion in cash and assets, if they never made another dime and their brand, IP, and all other aspects of the company are nullified they could still run for two more decades based on their 10-K filing showing $26.8 billion for 2017's operating expenses.
...
Sure, their Watch may not be fashionable forever, but that's not the primary reason people are interested in the device. ...
First, thanks for the tone of your response.
When I say burning through cash, what I mean is that the bigger Apple gets, the more money they need to spend just to stay in operation, plus they get used to spending much more frivolously than a smaller company. I've often been amazed - having worked for small companies, huge companies, and running my own business - how some of these huge companies can even get away with the level of waste in terms of spending. But, if troubled times come, these same companies have a really difficult time scaling back down. But you're right that with their extreme amount of cash, they could weather quite a bit.
But, I guess I don't want to see Apple just survive, and become another consumer mega-corp churning out more stuff people don't need (but somehow get tricked and talked into buying). I want a company that is making industry-changing technologies that we can't get along without because they make our lives better and more productive. That's the Apple I fear I'm losing. It's about more than being a brand-fanboy, or having neat stuff. Apple changed my life and the lives of many.
re: fashion - Unfortunately, I wasn't just talking about the Watch. It seems this is a fundamental shift in how they are approaching their product design, marketing, and even what markets they go after. No doubt, some of these shifts are even contributing to their success. But, here's the thing.... if Apple grows to be 10x how big they are now... and stays in business for the next 100,000 years.... if they lose what made them great and become a shiny-trinket manufacturer, I'll consider them a horrible failure.
So, I guess for me, this more along the lines of a moral imperative than share-holder value. Apple had been moving in the direction (and had accomplished quite a bit) of Jobs' 'change the world' mission. Was that just Jobs' brilliant marketing fluff? I really don't think so. But, I want that change to be for the better. Beats headphones, Car Karaoke shows, the world's best emojis, etc. aren't what I have in mind when I think about 'changing the world.'
randominternetperson said: Well said. Also, the goal of Apple was never to be the largest, most profitable company on the planet. If Apple is still making great products that make people's lives better (and they are on solid financial ground) 20 years from now, they'll be successful on their own terms--whether they the most valuable company in the world or the 100th most valuable. As an AAPL investor, I love the fact that Apple has done spectacularly well. As a lover of Apple products, I don't really care about their financial benchmarks.
Yes, and that's exactly why I'm afraid for their future. Because if you shift from making great products, to chasing the Kardashians, what happens when the Kardashians aren't the flavor of the year anymore? Things that make us more productive and improve our lives never go out of style... Car Karaoke and poo-emojis, not so much. (And, just so I'm not misunderstood... the problem isn't making the emojis or such to add some fun to the products, but when you're letting other things fall through the cracks, while these are you 'big things' then it's a problem.)
On the one hand, as you say, great products sell themselves. On the other hand, you're holding your finger to the wind of culture, and letting marketing drive product design to maximize your short-term profit. It's an entirely polar-opposite way of approaching business.
Comments
Some years ago, the Brooklyn Borough President, Marty Markowitz tried to get Apple to move into a location in downtown Brooklyn closer to Brooklyn Heights, I believe on the southeast corner of Court Street and Joralemon, but Apple didn't want to be there, although much of downtown Brooklyn has been completely transformed. Large parts of it are unrecognizable from 20 years ago.
No one thinks Apple is going out of business unless they're a blithering idiot. Net sales were $215 billion in calendar 2016. Net income was $48.7 billion. Net sales were $131 billion the first half of this year. The stock is just 0.57% of its 52-week (and all-time) high and 67% above it's 52-week low. Apple and Exxon-Mobil constantly switch places as to which has the highest market capitalization. Apple Services is almost at the level where if spun-off, it could be a Fortune 500 company all by itself and most people never even think much about it.
Less than two years ago I was in a conversation with a person holding an iPhone in their hand and admiring it. I said they should go to the local Apple store and take a look at some of the colors and models. Their response? “Apple, I though they went out of business.”
I shit you not.
In any event shattered glass is the reason smart builders prefer concrete and steel.
Ever heard of Novell? I'm a Novell CNE. Once, they were pretty much the company in tech and computer networking. The industry revolved around them. How about Kodak? Enron? Blockbuster? Reader's Digest? Myspace?
As I said earlier, even the doomsayers don't think they are headed anywhere soon. But, once they complete their transition to a fashion brand, and then go out of style, what then? Look at that building, and the 'space ship' and imagine how fast they are burning through cash (they are fortunately making a lot of right now). Imagine how fast the collapse could be?
And... I've been arguing with the latter kind of blithering idiots for decades. But, I think you're selling short some of us in the former group who used to be Apple's biggest fans. There's a huge difference between the 'tech industry experts' and journalists and 'investors' and such who never really got it until Apple's numbers got too huge to ignore... and those of us who've probably spent way too much of our life paying close attention. Just because we're not fanboys doesn't mean we're blithering idiots. (The fanboys have always been around as well.)
I worked at a nearly Fortune 50 company, that last I checked was on it's way between 150 and 200. If you don't do the right things, you won't stay there.
They have over $600 billion in cash and assets, if they never made another dime and their brand, IP, and all other aspects of the company are nullified they could still run for two more decades based on their 10-K filing showing $26.8 billion for 2017's operating expenses.
Of course, that scenario is impossible ,and then there's a lot they could do to keep it going, like we've seen with countless other failing companies (which includes Apple before Steve Jobs came back to nest).
Sure, their Watch may not be fashionable forever, but that's not the primary reason people are interested in the device. I think it's likely they'll keep increasing the fashion aspect of the device, just as every year we've seen new band colors, styles, designs, and materials. They're already doing what other smartwatch makers didn't do and also catering to women and ordinary people, not just geeks.
Other vendors need to follow suit but Swatch and Rolex can't do electronics well, will never have the options Apple has with even pairing to an iPhone, and Android and Samsung have shown no talent or understanding of making something fashionable. FitBit may be able to keep afloat with a device that is primarily a fitness tracker and other vendors, like Withings/Nokia, have regular looking watches that do base fitness tracking and offer Bluetooth, but I wouldn't classify those devices as being a direct threat to Apple—but let's say they eventually start to take marketshare from the Watch, it wouldn't be difficult for Apple to come down to their level while beating them on price, quality, and functionality.
When I say burning through cash, what I mean is that the bigger Apple gets, the more money they need to spend just to stay in operation, plus they get used to spending much more frivolously than a smaller company. I've often been amazed - having worked for small companies, huge companies, and running my own business - how some of these huge companies can even get away with the level of waste in terms of spending. But, if troubled times come, these same companies have a really difficult time scaling back down. But you're right that with their extreme amount of cash, they could weather quite a bit.
But, I guess I don't want to see Apple just survive, and become another consumer mega-corp churning out more stuff people don't need (but somehow get tricked and talked into buying). I want a company that is making industry-changing technologies that we can't get along without because they make our lives better and more productive. That's the Apple I fear I'm losing. It's about more than being a brand-fanboy, or having neat stuff. Apple changed my life and the lives of many.
re: fashion - Unfortunately, I wasn't just talking about the Watch. It seems this is a fundamental shift in how they are approaching their product design, marketing, and even what markets they go after. No doubt, some of these shifts are even contributing to their success. But, here's the thing.... if Apple grows to be 10x how big they are now... and stays in business for the next 100,000 years.... if they lose what made them great and become a shiny-trinket manufacturer, I'll consider them a horrible failure.
So, I guess for me, this more along the lines of a moral imperative than share-holder value. Apple had been moving in the direction (and had accomplished quite a bit) of Jobs' 'change the world' mission. Was that just Jobs' brilliant marketing fluff? I really don't think so. But, I want that change to be for the better. Beats headphones, Car Karaoke shows, the world's best emojis, etc. aren't what I have in mind when I think about 'changing the world.'
Yes, and that's exactly why I'm afraid for their future. Because if you shift from making great products, to chasing the Kardashians, what happens when the Kardashians aren't the flavor of the year anymore? Things that make us more productive and improve our lives never go out of style... Car Karaoke and poo-emojis, not so much. (And, just so I'm not misunderstood... the problem isn't making the emojis or such to add some fun to the products, but when you're letting other things fall through the cracks, while these are you 'big things' then it's a problem.)