Who the fuck cares. The way he's going he's to be bankrupt within 3 years.
You want to bet on that? Look at Amazon now, same situation 20 years ago. Tesla uses current profit to reinvest in infrastructure, R&D and future projects. Look at 25% margin on Model S and X, and tell me how it will bankrupt?
For one thing they can't get the damn cars out the door and then when they do they have countless issues with quality. As they stand now...I would never buy a Tesla.
Who the fuck cares. The way he's going he's to be bankrupt within 3 years.
You want to bet on that? Look at Amazon now, same situation 20 years ago. Tesla uses current profit to reinvest in infrastructure, R&D and future projects. Look at 25% margin on Model S and X, and tell me how it will bankrupt?
For one thing they can't get the damn cars out the door and then when they do they have countless issues with quality. As they stand now...I would never buy a Tesla
You sound like my grandfather — nice guy, just repeats shit he sees on Facebook ... no real knowledge or facts.
Given that their original Roadster was based on a Lotus platform, and that their new Roadster bears more than a passing resemblance to the current Lotus Evora, is this another case of Tesla farming out the largest parts of manufacturing to Lotus?
I don't know for sure, but I highly doubt it. I remember reading an article about the original Roadster (probably 10+ years ago) that said Musk chose the Lotus chassis to save development time. In (his) hindsight, it wasn't the best chassis for an electric car, as the later Model S debuted with a floor pan containing the batteries. I don't think the original Roadster had the same battery arrangement.
Who the fuck cares. The way he's going he's to be bankrupt within 3 years.
You want to bet on that? Look at Amazon now, same situation 20 years ago. Tesla uses current profit to reinvest in infrastructure, R&D and future projects. Look at 25% margin on Model S and X, and tell me how it will bankrupt?
For one thing they can't get the damn cars out the door and then when they do they have countless issues with quality. As they stand now...I would never buy a Tesla.
Who the fuck cares. The way he's going he's to be bankrupt within 3 years.
You want to bet on that? Look at Amazon now, same situation 20 years ago. Tesla uses current profit to reinvest in infrastructure, R&D and future projects. Look at 25% margin on Model S and X, and tell me how it will bankrupt?
For one thing they can't get the damn cars out the door and then when they do they have countless issues with quality. As they stand now...I would never buy a Tesla
You sound like my grandfather — nice guy, just repeats shit he sees on Facebook ... no real knowledge or facts.
Who the fuck cares. The way he's going he's to be bankrupt within 3 years.
You want to bet on that? Look at Amazon now, same situation 20 years ago. Tesla uses current profit to reinvest in infrastructure, R&D and future projects. Look at 25% margin on Model S and X, and tell me how it will bankrupt?
For one thing they can't get the damn cars out the door and then when they do they have countless issues with quality. As they stand now...I would never buy a Tesla.
Who the fuck cares. The way he's going he's to be bankrupt within 3 years.
You want to bet on that? Look at Amazon now, same situation 20 years ago. Tesla uses current profit to reinvest in infrastructure, R&D and future projects. Look at 25% margin on Model S and X, and tell me how it will bankrupt?
For one thing they can't get the damn cars out the door and then when they do they have countless issues with quality. As they stand now...I would never buy a Tesla
You sound like my grandfather — nice guy, just repeats shit he sees on Facebook ... no real knowledge or facts.
Its well known in the auto industry if you happen to follow that like I do that Tesla has very poor quality with fit and finish and massive software issues. They're vehicles are not worth the amount of money being charged for them and at this time...certainly not worth the wait. I know they're still a fairly young car company but they have a ways to go.
I have no faith in whatever Elon Musk says. Believe it when I see it. Same goes for the Tesla 3
Don't anyone tell J. Random1337 about SpaceX, right?
Right? I mean it's all because of Musk and not the legion of ex-NASA engineers who did the work. Sorry, but Tesla isn't our moonshot and this company will be Tucker and his machine part deux.
I have no faith in whatever Elon Musk says. Believe it when I see it. Same goes for the Tesla 3
Don't anyone tell J. Random1337 about SpaceX, right?
Right? I mean it's all because of Musk and not the legion of ex-NASA engineers who did the work. Sorry, but Tesla isn't our moonshot and this company will be Tucker and his machine part deux.
You mean the car company that didn't even have 2 years of production, didn't last 3 years before shuttering, only made 51 automobiles, and never had a 2nd model? You think that's the same thing as Tesla with 14 years on the market, plenty of IP they've created over 1.5 decades, with 1000x the number of automobiles shipping just this year alone, 6 model categories, and doing things other automobile companies are constantly having to play catch because they're run by people like you that scoffed that the idea of an EV that is fun to drive, that ICE wasn't the best path forward for entity, and that no automated system could ever be better than a human driver in their reaction time and awareness.
Even if Musk kicked your dog this blatant hatred for a company that has pushed every other company to innovate faster and better is something that a reasonable person would make. You could say that you hate Musk because he's from South Africa or you could say you prefer Edison over Tesla—it really don't matter what your reasons are—but to ignore what he's done for the industry is, well, you sound like an Alabama voter who's still planning to vote for Roy Moore next month because party is more important than anything else.
I truly weep for the generations to come that will have no idea what driving an automobile with a real, gasoline engine feels like... and somehow this is progress
I bet a few horse and buggy drivers in Germany said the same thing to Karl Benz in 1888!
Aw, c’mon. There nothing like the feeling of a fine leather buggy whip in your hands. And the instant acceleration of a team of horses. ;-)
I truly weep for the generations to come that will have no idea what driving an automobile with a real, gasoline engine feels like... and somehow this is progress
This is phenomenal progress in all its glory. Electric beats gasoline in every category from simplicity to safety to performance to autonomy. The oil industry went through great lengths to silence electric, until Musk slapped that industry across the face.
Way to cheer, fanboi.
Unfortunately, almost nothing in your post is true. If anything, Tesla is on a path to bankruptcy of its own accord, and if not, all the electric models that are on the way over the next few years from all the major OEMs will probably bury him.
And stop the farcical rumor-mongering about the oil companies trying to "silence" electric cars. They have done no such thing.
I truly weep for the generations to come that will have no idea what driving an automobile with a real, gasoline engine feels like... and somehow this is progress
Uh, this IS progress, on multiple levels, regardless of your twisted view of gas cars somehow being more advanced. Its like weeping for the generations that have no idea of what ejecting a VHS tape feels like, or an optical drive, or using a flip phone, etc.
Yet another example of the many clueless posters on this forum who don't get the joy of driving. It's not about progress. It's about the passion for the machine. EV's are sterile and emotionless.
I truly weep for the generations to come that will have no idea what driving an automobile with a real, gasoline engine feels like... and somehow this is progress
Or making calls on a landline, or listening to music on a Walkman with orange foam headphones.
I personally tire of your narcissism, but don't let me stand in the way of all those consumers, media, and investors that love you unconditionally, no matter the burn rate and the failed promises.
I forgot to mention that those tax credits that Tesla has been living on, here and worldwide, are drying up, and early evidence is that fewer or no tax credits substantially affects sales.
I just want to know who was in the audience for the event whooping like Elon’s personal admiration squad.
I truly weep for the generations to come that will have no idea what driving an automobile with a real, gasoline engine feels like... and somehow this is progress
Uh, this IS progress, on multiple levels, regardless of your twisted view of gas cars somehow being more advanced. Its like weeping for the generations that have no idea of what ejecting a VHS tape feels like, or an optical drive, or using a flip phone, etc.
Yet another example of the many clueless posters on this forum who don't get the joy of driving. It's not about progress. It's about the passion for the machine. EV's are sterile and emotionless.
I truly weep for the generations to come that will have no idea what driving an automobile with a real, gasoline engine feels like... and somehow this is progress
My grandpa was weeping for horses and lamenting that we didn't get to shovel manure out of the barn. Those darn Amish have all the fun. Seriously though, I feel the same way about automatic transmissions. Except when I'm stuck in traffic, or eating a burrito - on the road...
SpamSandwich said: Never happen. Musk previously said his plan was to step down from Tesla as CEO once their Model 3 was shipping in good numbers and that SpaceX and Mars colonization would be his focus for the rest of his life.
That will keep him busy and out of trouble, I guess. Though sad to see the talent a bit wasted. Some new tech will probably come out of it.
tmay said: Tesla isn't, and won't likely, ever make any money in automobile production, and as I noted above, tax credits are decreasing/ending worldwide for EV's, and that is having an adverse effect on sales, especially the Tesla S and X. More to the point, gas is cheap, and IC engined cars still sell in the 10's of millions with many EV competitors coming that will have the effect of driving down prices.
It's not meant to sustain them, just get them going. While I'm not sure how quickly (if ever) we get to 100% EV, it's pretty clear it has a big future. All we need is a battery breakthrough to really push it forward quickly. And, even as an auto enthusiast, I'm fairly happy to move in that direction seeing as makers like Tesla and BMW are keeping them interesting. (I initially got interested in EVs when I saw a Mini that had been converted with AWD and like 600+ HP many years ago.)
bikertwin said: While we’ll always need to move things like food to distant markets, the future is density instead of sprawl in our cities.
So, per capita, we’ll need to move stuff around less, as people are much closer together. With self-driving cars, there’s no need for performance, as you don’t want your car slinging you around the cabin while you’re doing work or socializing. And cities are pushing for fewer (or no) cars in their densest centers; instead, walking, biking, & transit are the future there.
So we’re in a transition period, where people still buy & own cars individually, so you need performance to market them. But that will change.
Sounds like a bleak future. But, what are they going to do, have a small manufacturing plant and farm right in your sky-scraper to make your iOS devices and food?
osmartormenajr said: Really??? I'll be more than glad to be rid of the vrum-vrum psyche that comes with most of male drivers...
How about good parenting, teach them how to think, and give them some driving lessons?
bloggerblog said: This is phenomenal progress in all its glory. Electric beats gasoline in every category from simplicity to safety to performance to autonomy. The oil industry went through great lengths to silence electric, until Musk slapped that industry across the face.
Well, until you take one to the race track... but they'll get there eventually, I suppose. So, why didn't the silence Musk? The reality is that the technology is *just* getting here to make this happen. Previous EV stuff was %$#).
If you look at cars today, and think, what would Apple do if they wanted to move it forward, the way they did for the smartphones back in 2007, I can't think they could do anything better than what Tesla does. It pushes autonomy as far as is practical, their aesthetic design is top notch, and they take a step forward while also trying to stay practical. And for some industries, you cannot do this at profit, at least at first. At least they are trying, and building things, even if profits are to follow. It's something we can see, and soon, be able to afford also, with Tesla 3. So yes, I think that is why we see this on an Apple forum, and also because Apple tried to enter this field. So if Apple would buy Tesla, I can see Musk as the CEO visionary, and Cook as the COO he's always been.
I used to think it was a good idea when the car rumors started. But, I don't think Apple is capable, and if they did, the results would be scary. You can't build a car in the shoddy why Apple builds their stuff, especially the software. You can't release 4 or 5 updates to fix thousands of cars crashing and burning all over the place. And, I wouldn't pin too much hope in AI... it's being way overhyped.
I don’t need to go 250 mph, but the 650 mile range is a dealmaker. I often drive 550 miles one-way to visit relatives, and my vehicle must be able to do that without substantial recharge delays. Either great range or turbo-recharging or both is essential for me. Surely Im not alone. Good work Tesla!
Yea, up where I currently live, 250 miles just doesn't cut it.
toddzrx said: Yet another example of the many clueless posters on this forum who don't get the joy of driving. It's not about progress. It's about the passion for the machine. EV's are sterile and emotionless.
Please, explain why an EV couldn't be a joy to drive? While I haven't driven one yet, I'm quite interested in doing so. (Did you see my earlier post about the BMW i8?)
I currently drive a BMW. I've owned a few of them. I've had a Porsche 928. I've had a Miata. I've ridden in and driven some pretty cool cars over the years. I'm a car enthusiast... even did some amateur racing for a while. I don't quite understand your statement though.
If you mean a little cube that you get in with no steering wheel that queues up behind the cube ahead of it... then yea, I'm right there with you. But, that's not a matter of EV or not. If you're bemoaning the days of 'muscle cars' that burned the tires off at the light and then crashed at the first curve... I've driven those too, and I'm sure an EV could be programmed to do that if it makes your day (probably far better than any thing from the '60s).
dewme said: Seriously though, I feel the same way about automatic transmissions. Except when I'm stuck in traffic, or eating a burrito - on the road...
Yea, I hear you there. I haven't driven a really good DSG (the one in my Jetta was pretty dumb) or PDK transmission yet, but they do keep getting better. They certainly have advantages at times too. And, yea, when stuck in traffic, I sometimes wish I had an auto. But, for most other driving, I'll take a manual any day.
SpamSandwich said: Never happen. Musk previously said his plan was to step down from Tesla as CEO once their Model 3 was shipping in good numbers and that SpaceX and Mars colonization would be his focus for the rest of his life.
That will keep him busy and out of trouble, I guess. Though sad to see the talent a bit wasted. Some new tech will probably come out of it.
tmay said: Tesla isn't, and won't likely, ever make any money in automobile production, and as I noted above, tax credits are decreasing/ending worldwide for EV's, and that is having an adverse effect on sales, especially the Tesla S and X. More to the point, gas is cheap, and IC engined cars still sell in the 10's of millions with many EV competitors coming that will have the effect of driving down prices.
It's not meant to sustain them, just get them going. While I'm not sure how quickly (if ever) we get to 100% EV, it's pretty clear it has a big future. All we need is a battery breakthrough to really push it forward quickly. And, even as an auto enthusiast, I'm fairly happy to move in that direction seeing as makers like Tesla and BMW are keeping them interesting. (I initially got interested in EVs when I saw a Mini that had been converted with AWD and like 600+ HP many years ago.)
bikertwin said: While we’ll always need to move things like food to distant markets, the future is density instead of sprawl in our cities.
So, per capita, we’ll need to move stuff around less, as people are much closer together. With self-driving cars, there’s no need for performance, as you don’t want your car slinging you around the cabin while you’re doing work or socializing. And cities are pushing for fewer (or no) cars in their densest centers; instead, walking, biking, & transit are the future there.
So we’re in a transition period, where people still buy & own cars individually, so you need performance to market them. But that will change.
Sounds like a bleak future. But, what are they going to do, have a small manufacturing plant and farm right in your sky-scraper to make your iOS devices and food?
osmartormenajr said: Really??? I'll be more than glad to be rid of the vrum-vrum psyche that comes with most of male drivers...
How about good parenting, teach them how to think, and give them some driving lessons?
bloggerblog said: This is phenomenal progress in all its glory. Electric beats gasoline in every category from simplicity to safety to performance to autonomy. The oil industry went through great lengths to silence electric, until Musk slapped that industry across the face.
Well, until you take one to the race track... but they'll get there eventually, I suppose. So, why didn't the silence Musk? The reality is that the technology is *just* getting here to make this happen. Previous EV stuff was %$#).
So, for some $300K, I can get a 911 GT2 RS that recently busted the record at Nurburgring. Sure, doesn't accelerate as fast as a Tesla S 200, and doesn't have the top end, but it's a real drivers car, which I don't consider Tesla's to be. YMMV.
As I stated earlier, reduction in tax credits has had an effect on sales, so if Tesla isn't "going" at this point in time, I'm not seeing that change anytime soon.
I truly weep for the generations to come that will have no idea what driving an automobile with a real, gasoline engine feels like... and somehow this is progress
Uh, this IS progress, on multiple levels, regardless of your twisted view of gas cars somehow being more advanced. Its like weeping for the generations that have no idea of what ejecting a VHS tape feels like, or an optical drive, or using a flip phone, etc.
Yet another example of the many clueless posters on this forum who don't get the joy of driving. It's not about progress. It's about the passion for the machine. EV's are sterile and emotionless.
Go test drive a model S P100D.
You mean the one that whipped around VIR by cars that cost a fifth as much? 190th out of 220:
It's not hard to build a car that goes fast in a straight line, regardless of power train. Doing it over and over again is a different story. Building something that goes around a track quickly is yet another hurdle. Here's the full article on the Tesla Lightning Lap:
I truly weep for the generations to come that will have no idea what driving an automobile with a real, gasoline engine feels like... and somehow this is progress
I can't wait for self driving cars to take away the tedium and tension of my rush hour every day. And of course make it safer.
Comments
https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/tesla/model-s
Car is rated as best, yet old man here would never buy.
This is wrt the model 3 and Tesla in general, which is really what the issue is;
https://twitter.com/Tweetermeyer?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.asymco.com/
Automotive Journalists aren't all hypnotized by Elon.
or, do a google search on "production hell"
No facts...well here is some bathroom reading material:
https://jalopnik.com/this-guy-documents-nearly-a-year-of-quality-problems-wi-1819955046
http://fortune.com/2016/06/27/model-x-lawsuit/
https://www.wired.com/2017/05/tesla-quality/
http://bgr.com/2017/11/13/tesla-model-3-problems-fit-and-finish/
Its well known in the auto industry if you happen to follow that like I do that Tesla has very poor quality with fit and finish and massive software issues. They're vehicles are not worth the amount of money being charged for them and at this time...certainly not worth the wait. I know they're still a fairly young car company but they have a ways to go.
Even if Musk kicked your dog this blatant hatred for a company that has pushed every other company to innovate faster and better is something that a reasonable person would make. You could say that you hate Musk because he's from South Africa or you could say you prefer Edison over Tesla—it really don't matter what your reasons are—but to ignore what he's done for the industry is, well, you sound like an Alabama voter who's still planning to vote for Roy Moore next month because party is more important than anything else.
Unfortunately, almost nothing in your post is true. If anything, Tesla is on a path to bankruptcy of its own accord, and if not, all the electric models that are on the way over the next few years from all the major OEMs will probably bury him.
And stop the farcical rumor-mongering about the oil companies trying to "silence" electric cars. They have done no such thing.
Seriously though, I feel the same way about automatic transmissions. Except when I'm stuck in traffic, or eating a burrito - on the road...
It's not meant to sustain them, just get them going. While I'm not sure how quickly (if ever) we get to 100% EV, it's pretty clear it has a big future. All we need is a battery breakthrough to really push it forward quickly. And, even as an auto enthusiast, I'm fairly happy to move in that direction seeing as makers like Tesla and BMW are keeping them interesting. (I initially got interested in EVs when I saw a Mini that had been converted with AWD and like 600+ HP many years ago.)
Sounds like a bleak future.
How about good parenting, teach them how to think, and give them some driving lessons?
Well, until you take one to the race track... but they'll get there eventually, I suppose.
So, why didn't the silence Musk? The reality is that the technology is *just* getting here to make this happen. Previous EV stuff was %$#).
Yea, up where I currently live, 250 miles just doesn't cut it.
I currently drive a BMW. I've owned a few of them. I've had a Porsche 928. I've had a Miata. I've ridden in and driven some pretty cool cars over the years. I'm a car enthusiast... even did some amateur racing for a while. I don't quite understand your statement though.
If you mean a little cube that you get in with no steering wheel that queues up behind the cube ahead of it... then yea, I'm right there with you. But, that's not a matter of EV or not. If you're bemoaning the days of 'muscle cars' that burned the tires off at the light and then crashed at the first curve... I've driven those too, and I'm sure an EV could be programmed to do that if it makes your day (probably far better than any thing from the '60s).
Yea, I hear you there. I haven't driven a really good DSG (the one in my Jetta was pretty dumb) or PDK transmission yet, but they do keep getting better. They certainly have advantages at times too. And, yea, when stuck in traffic, I sometimes wish I had an auto. But, for most other driving, I'll take a manual any day.
As I stated earlier, reduction in tax credits has had an effect on sales, so if Tesla isn't "going" at this point in time, I'm not seeing that change anytime soon.
http://www.autonews.com/article/20171117/BLOG06/171119792/should-tesla-stop-building-cars
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-20062017-historical-data-every-lap-time-every-car-feature
It's not hard to build a car that goes fast in a straight line, regardless of power train. Doing it over and over again is a different story. Building something that goes around a track quickly is yet another hurdle. Here's the full article on the Tesla Lightning Lap:
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/tesla-model-s-p85d-at-lightning-lap-2016-feature
Sorry, but I want my car/motorcycle to actually do more than go fast in a straight line, once.