Well, since this seems to be the thread for SE2 wish listing...
Things I really want in the SE2: The current (best) processor Keep the flat sides, so it will sit on one end or side 3.5mm TRS jack ( I don't use it for ear buds / phones, but for injecting signals into audio systems) More RAM wouldn't hurt More battery wouldn't hurt A DAC that will play 192/24 natively would be nice The 'chin and 'forehead' could shrink a little...no biggy.
Things I don't care about: Price Thickness Waterproof 3D touch Wireless charging. VR anything
Well, since this seems to be the thread for SE2 wish listing...
Things I really want in the SE2: The current (best) processor Keep the flat sides, so it will sit on one end or side 3.5mm TRS jack ( I don't use it for ear buds / phones, but for injecting signals into audio systems) More RAM wouldn't hurt More battery wouldn't hurt A DAC that will play 192/24 natively would be nice The 'chin and 'forehead' could shrink a little...no biggy.
Things I don't care about: Price Thickness Waterproof 3D touch Wireless charging. VR anything
I think the SE2 will have a 4” model and the 4.7” model
I actually like this idea a lot. And it seems to make sense. So you have the easy to assemble iPhone SE case with 4" and 4.7". Using Touch ID from iPhone 6S / iPhone 7, whichever is cheaper. So it would segment into three market between iPhone SE and X Design. So the next year line up.
If the SE2 is real, it'll have an A11, not an A10.
When the SE came out, it shipped with Apple's latest/best chip, the A9. When the 2015 iPod Touch came out, it featured Apple's latest/best chip, the A8. The pattern is pretty clear — when Apple releases a new product that isn't intended to be on an annual update schedule, they use their best tech, it's going to have a long shelf life.
Yes, not only have they done it with A10 during iPhone 6s era, another reason is the Custom GPU and Neural Engine, so assuming they dump iPhone 7 and 6s next year, every single iPhone in their line up will have their new Custom GPU and Neural Engine, important for AI and AR.
I am also hoping all iPhone SE and 8 will have Qualcomm X16, as currently being used in iPhone 8 and X. While The newer X will be all Intel, XMM7580. This is significant because it also means every iPhone sold next year will be capable of supporting FDD Massive MIMO, LAA, 4CA, Basically all the important pieces for 4.9G / LTE Advance Pro. This is a huge incentive for carrier to upgrade their network.
I am also secretly hoping next year X finally get 4GB Memory.
SE 2 will continue ride onto the success of SE in that market, India and
surrounding nations. For western world, current SE is pretty much least
of choice in iPhone lineup unless in future takes iPhone X
characteristic. What Phone user's like ? More screen real estate(thin
bezel,edge to edge screen,as little top/bottom space for
camera/sensors,etc) in whatever frame put into is everyone's desire.
Hoping for next year's LCD iPhone 8S / Plus have same/similar frame size
but reflects iPhone X characteristic. When you put iPhone X next to 8
and 8 Plus; that top/bottom large spaces hits you in decision making
with less desire to buy 8 / Plus over perfect iPhone X. Someday, Apple's
dream of one slab of glass iPhone will come to fruition/realization.
You're kidding, right?! The SE was very successful in the US and many
believe that success took Apple by surprise. I would venture to say that many, if not
most people bought it for it's size not price.
I suspect that size attracted some and price attracted others. That's why I would like to see Apple release both an SE-2 and an SE-X with a no-bezel OLED display and A11 processor... ... (plus just name would be fun!)
But, to be honest, the Apple Watch with LTE could attract some who have been attracted to the SE due its size. I am thinking of workers and athletes who want access to phone, messages, etc but don't want to carry a big phone while their doing their thing. Those people could get a bigger phone and leave it in the car without losing connection.
Just make it the features of an 8 in the SE size. Instant buy. and by that I mean an A11 chip, camera, force touch, etc. basically an iPhone 8 in a smaller form factor. The only meaningful difference would be size.
Agreed.
Actually, I'm somewhat agitated that Apple doesn't do exactly that. When the SE was first released in Spring 2016, it contained all the guts of the iPhone 6S that had been released 6 months before. I was hoping/expecting to see an update this past spring to iPhone 7 guts, and then see it upgraded to iPhone 8 guts in Spring 2018. Oh well.
The price likely was set low and stays low because the manufacturing processes were able to be used beyond their "normal" lifecycle of 12 months. Apple used the same technique with the 2017 iPad.
Those buying the latest & greatest pay for the research and tooling. Those willing to accept 2nd generation get quality products at far lower prices.
I still like that design. For Halloween, I decorated using a HDTV connected up to my old iPhone 5 (running an older iOS, but still works). I put some YouTube videos on there to play for the kids who came to visit. I hadn’t used the 5/5s/5c/SE form factor in a long time, and I marveled at how useable, light, and slim that model was. And I know people who still use 5s models, despite the Internet trolls spinning the “disappointed” narrative when it was introduced.
Rather than paint it as out of date, I consider it one of Apple’s best designs: the quintessential iPhone. The refinement of Apple’s original design.
I wouldn’t mind if Apple introduced an updated iPod Touch with A10 and upgraded cameras and wireless.
The IPhone 5s is the oldest phone supported in IO 11. It’s reported to be a bit slow, but still works fine.
I was considering buying the IPhone SE recently, but the price is high when considering the age of the hardware. If Apple keeps the same price point for the SE2 it will be a fantastic value.
I ended up refurbishing an IPhone 6s (cracked screen) at the Apple Store. It’s now in mint condition and should be supported for IOS upgrades for the next 2 years.
My sister had the 6s sitting in a drawer collecting dust. It’s amazing the number of people that buy new phones and don’t realize the value of the old one, even “broken”.
The 6s is a good size at 4.7” but the 4” (SE) is better if you keep it in your pocket while sitting.
Women probably prefer the larger phones because they lack useable pockets anyways. The 4” is a bit small for male “power” users, but the portability is great and the “phone + music” functions work well. Kids prefer larger than 4” for the games...
I was considering buying the IPhone SE recently, but the price is high when considering the age of the hardware. - Come on, you are talking about a phone which is faster than all of the fastest Android phones out there in the world. When it comes to value for money, there is nothing to beat SE in the iPhone line up.
The IPhone 6s that I refurbished cost me $150 for the new screen. The IPhone SE starts at $349 for 32Gb. The 6s has 64Gb and has better specs on the screen, camera, etc.
The IPhone SE is getting old in the tooth that’s why the SE2 is coming out. I would consider the SE2 if it was out (if I didn’t get a great deal on the 6s).
If someone was considering the SE, I’d tell them to wait for the SE2.
You “cherry picked” what to comment on... I also called the SE2 a “fantastic value”.
Could have sold that iPhone 6s for $250+ even with the cracked screen. Then the SE would have only cost you $100. Disingenuous to say the 6s cost you $150 but the SE would have cost you $350. SE runs slightly faster than the 6s with better battery life too. has the same rear camera. Only 2 yr old hardware in the phone. still, looking forward to an SE2.
Lighten up! He did what worked best for him. Because you would have chosen something different doesn't make his choices wrong... There are lots of ways to skin these cats...
Women probably prefer the larger phones because they lack useable pockets anyways...
what world do you live in?
the only anecdotal correlations i have seen in my daily interaction with dozens of new people everyday revolve around age, vision & gadget-loving. increased age, decreased vision & love of the new always seem to draw people to larger screens, but i have never seen gender playing a role at all.
So you live in a genderless world where everybody has pockets?
Add force touch w/ mechanical home button and Taptic engine.
Keep 3.5 headphone jack ( Apple dongle situation (donglegate) totally unreasonable - I can't plug Apple earbuds into laptop without adapter no lightening port on mac??!! say what? what a stupid decision )
Keep price low
I'll buy 20 units
Happy Thanksgiving everybody - we can still say that I hope.
GeorgeBMac said: I suspect that size attracted some and price attracted others.
That's why I would like to see Apple release both an SE-2 and an SE-X with a no-bezel OLED display and A11 processor... ... (plus just name would be fun!)
But, to be honest, the Apple Watch with LTE could attract some who have been attracted to the SE due its size. I am thinking of workers and athletes who want access to phone, messages, etc but don't want to carry a big phone while their doing their thing. Those people could get a bigger phone and leave it in the car without losing connection.
I suppose if you just need a phone to make an emergency call, but for me the size is about a phone that fits well in my hand as a phone... and because I often have a laptop/desktop, I just don't need the screen space of the bigger phones. But, the watch would be too small. So, if I added the Watch, I'd still have the SE. For a bigger screen, I'd have an iPad mini or regular iPad.
IMO, the big screen phones are kind of a worst of all worlds unless you're trying to use it as a fairly primary device.
GeorgeBMac said: So you live in a genderless world where everybody has pockets?
Dimension B. ... what is it? Ze (I suppose I'd better be careful, being in Canada... the black-choppers might show up and whisk me away to some tribunal.)
The SE was and is absolutely a budget phone. It's specs and price confirm that. It was developed from the 5s mainly for the India market.
My guess is Apple will raise the price of the SE2 by at least the $50 it dropped from the current SE. And the SE2 with improved specs will still be the budget, entry level phone with not one spec exceeding or even equaling that of any other iPhone.
I agree that Apple was surprised at it's domestic sales which I believe were motivated by the size and form factor over price. This was an unexpected plus for Apple.
My 5s is running iOS 11 and it's really slow when moving from screen to screen, or loading a screen. Scrolling through any screen that has a list of apps is slow and halting. The 5s is the lowest rung on the current upgrade ladder and likely won't be listed as compatible with iOS 12.
The SE still uses first gen Touch ID, same as my 5s. It works perfectly about 85-90% of the time for me. The remaining times require multiple attempts or resorting to my passcode.
The 6s got new and improved TID and the 7 got the non-button but I don't think TID was a new iteration, just the new non-button.
I hope Apple keeps the exact form factor of the current SE. It change the look very slightly from the 5s' polished chamfer on the metal band. If the next SE looked exactly like this one, I'd be ok with that.
Wish everyone would stop calling it the budget iPhone. For most of us, it's the size that counts, not the cost - if it were specced and priced the same as the iPhone 8, similar to what Sony did with they're Z range, I'm sure it would still sell in the millions.
Battery upgrade is a welcome boost, I've been impressed by my wife's iPhone 8 battery life so if it's at least on par with that I'd be delighted.
Apple product marketing associate size with price. Bigger the size, the higher price, give the same features. The SE model is classified as the iPhones "budget" model. According to the AT&T sales rep, theses are the people who cannot afford the "regular" iPhone, so they buy the SE, who are usually the older people and those on assistance. No middle school and higher person would consider carrying an SE! Take away the status of the iPhone because it the poor people's iPhone!
And while there may be some truth to that, it certainly bodes well for a restyled SE 2, so the SE can drop to a truly budget configuration for around $199.
Apple may drop the price of the SE to clear out inventory, but don’t expect it to last. Apple has time of obsolescence in mind when they sell new phones. They want to have any phone sold to be able to be upgraded to the latest OS for 4 years (the life of the phone). This is how Apple maintain an excellent reputation... continuing to sell old hardware isn’t advantageous to their Brand.
—x— Some people may not buy the SE do to perceived cheapness, but that’s not what the SE is. The SE stands for Special Edition. The C model IPhone was supposed to fill the “cheap” role. Apple killed that line off, likely because of what I mentioned above about the Apple Brand.
So how do you explain the Series 1 Apple Watch? It was too slow when they released it, and not much has changed. Apple needs a budget phone, just like it needs a budget watch, to lower the bar of entry since there are very few markets left into which to expand sales and profits. As long as it's not painful to use, a speed bumped an SE "Series 1" will serve the purpose just fine.
The SE was and is absolutely a budget phone. It's specs and price confirm that. It was developed from the 5s mainly for the India market.
My guess is Apple will raise the price of the SE2 by at least the $50 it dropped from the current SE. And the SE2 with improved specs will still be the budget, entry level phone with not one spec exceeding or even equaling that of any other iPhone.
I agree that Apple was surprised at it's domestic sales which I believe were motivated by the size and form factor over price. This was an unexpected plus for Apple.
My 5s is running iOS 11 and it's really slow when moving from screen to screen, or loading a screen. Scrolling through any screen that has a list of apps is slow and halting. The 5s is the lowest rung on the current upgrade ladder and likely won't be listed as compatible with iOS 12.
The SE still uses first gen Touch ID, same as my 5s. It works perfectly about 85-90% of the time for me. The remaining times require multiple attempts or resorting to my passcode.
The 6s got new and improved TID and the 7 got the non-button but I don't think TID was a new iteration, just the new non-button.
I hope Apple keeps the exact form factor of the current SE. It change the look very slightly from the 5s' polished chamfer on the metal band. If the next SE looked exactly like this one, I'd be ok with that.
Yes, Apple seems to have designed it as a 'budget' phone, and likely for foreign markets (ex: my SE cost between $600 and $700 here in Canada, so aside from that being less than $1000+, you can decide if that's budget or not, I guess), but I suppose ALSO to appease people screaming for that form factor.
I hope they were surprised, though since they combined 'budget' with the form factor, it's hard to know which was the main driver. And, it's sad that you're probably correct in that they won't make one of that form factor with feature parity.
The main problem with the 5s is that it only has 1GB or RAM, whereas the SE has 2GB. iOS 11 feels as good as iOS 10, possibly a bit faster. I've had little issue with Touch ID, though it's really dependent on the state of one's fingers. The air is super-dry up here in the winter, and I'll have trouble if I haven't kept my hands in good shape (i.e.: lotion). That's one advantage of Face ID... though it opens up a whole bunch of other use-case problems (like the phone mounted or sitting in the car... Touch ID just took a finger press... Face ID will require removing the phone, or unbuckling and leaning, etc.).
I also hope Apple keeps the ***EXACT*** form factor, and I'd be quite disappointed if they don't. IMO, the iPhones between have felt and looked cheap. That's one advantage of the 10, is that it looks/feels like a quality phone once again (even though I prefer the look/feel of the SE).
mac_128 said: So how do you explain the Series 1 Apple Watch? It was too slow when they released it, and not much has changed. Apple needs a budget phone, just like it needs a budget watch, to lower the bar of entry since there are very few markets left into which to expand sales and profits. As long as it's not painful to use, a speed bumped an SE "Series 1" will serve the purpose just fine.
Agreed... I think all this 'Apple doesn't make budget stuff' is baloney. They've almost always had a model in their various lines that was priced to compete with competitors or offer a relatively entry level model. My first Mac (I used them before I had my own) was a Mac LC. What they don't do is make cheap $*(#@ just to lure people into buying, like most of the rest of the brands.
Like take laptops. People are complaining right now about the price of the MBP. And, some criticism is due (especially with the flaws), and in terms of price, they are higher than they were last generation. But, the MBP is still competitively priced for what it actually is.
Go to Dell or HP and actually spec out a similar machine and the price will be in the same range. The difference is that with Dell or HP, you *CAN* actually buy a really cheapo model with spinning HD, crapy screen, too little RAM, etc. ... or even some less premium brand and get into the $500-$1k range that Apple doesn't even offer. Apple has a close-to-$1k model too, but then is isn't necessarily 'apples to apples' either.
But, people will buy lots of those $600 laptops thinking they got such an incredible deal compared to Apple. It will break more quickly and never be anywhere near as good. And, unless they are tech competent, it will cost them more in the long run in terms of repair, tech support, and upgrading more quickly. (I've had relatives do this... and then come to me for tech support after I warned them... they are lucky they are relatives! )
My son is saving up for a laptop to create and edit videos (and gaming, etc.) and his friends think he's nuts and our relatives think we're crazy parents and he should just go buy an $800 Windows bargain. It's hard to explain the actually difference to them, as they aren't technically aware enough. Even he asks, Dad, why does it cost so much more? It is hard to understand unless you're into it. Why does a BMW cost more than a Pontiac Sunbird? Why does a Vitamix cost more than a Black & Decker? It's hard to explain if you just see a simple car or blender.
The SE was and is absolutely a budget phone. It's specs and price confirm that. It was developed from the 5s mainly for the India market.
My guess is Apple will raise the price of the SE2 by at least the $50 it dropped from the current SE. And the SE2 with improved specs will still be the budget, entry level phone with not one spec exceeding or even equaling that of any other iPhone.
I agree that Apple was surprised at it's domestic sales which I believe were motivated by the size and form factor over price. This was an unexpected plus for Apple.
My 5s is running iOS 11 and it's really slow when moving from screen to screen, or loading a screen. Scrolling through any screen that has a list of apps is slow and halting. The 5s is the lowest rung on the current upgrade ladder and likely won't be listed as compatible with iOS 12.
The SE still uses first gen Touch ID, same as my 5s. It works perfectly about 85-90% of the time for me. The remaining times require multiple attempts or resorting to my passcode.
The 6s got new and improved TID and the 7 got the non-button but I don't think TID was a new iteration, just the new non-button.
I hope Apple keeps the exact form factor of the current SE. It change the look very slightly from the 5s' polished chamfer on the metal band. If the next SE looked exactly like this one, I'd be ok with that.
Yes, Apple seems to have designed it as a 'budget' phone, and likely for foreign markets (ex: my SE cost between $600 and $700 here in Canada, so aside from that being less than $1000+, you can decide if that's budget or not, I guess), but I suppose ALSO to appease people screaming for that form factor.
I hope they were surprised, though since they combined 'budget' with the form factor, it's hard to know which was the main driver. And, it's sad that you're probably correct in that they won't make one of that form factor with feature parity.
The main problem with the 5s is that it only has 1GB or RAM, whereas the SE has 2GB. iOS 11 feels as good as iOS 10, possibly a bit faster. I've had little issue with Touch ID, though it's really dependent on the state of one's fingers. The air is super-dry up here in the winter, and I'll have trouble if I haven't kept my hands in good shape (i.e.: lotion). That's one advantage of Face ID... though it opens up a whole bunch of other use-case problems (like the phone mounted or sitting in the car... Touch ID just took a finger press... Face ID will require removing the phone, or unbuckling and leaning, etc.).
I also hope Apple keeps the ***EXACT*** form factor, and I'd be quite disappointed if they don't. IMO, the iPhones between have felt and looked cheap. That's one advantage of the 10, is that it looks/feels like a quality phone once again (even though I prefer the look/feel of the SE).
mac_128 said: So how do you explain the Series 1 Apple Watch? It was too slow when they released it, and not much has changed. Apple needs a budget phone, just like it needs a budget watch, to lower the bar of entry since there are very few markets left into which to expand sales and profits. As long as it's not painful to use, a speed bumped an SE "Series 1" will serve the purpose just fine.
Agreed... I think all this 'Apple doesn't make budget stuff' is baloney. They've almost always had a model in their various lines that was priced to compete with competitors or offer a relatively entry level model. My first Mac (I used them before I had my own) was a Mac LC. What they don't do is make cheap $*(#@ just to lure people into buying, like most of the rest of the brands.
Like take laptops. People are complaining right now about the price of the MBP. And, some criticism is due (especially with the flaws), and in terms of price, they are higher than they were last generation. But, the MBP is still competitively priced for what it actually is.
Go to Dell or HP and actually spec out a similar machine and the price will be in the same range. The difference is that with Dell or HP, you *CAN* actually buy a really cheapo model with spinning HD, crapy screen, too little RAM, etc. ... or even some less premium brand and get into the $500-$1k range that Apple doesn't even offer. Apple has a close-to-$1k model too, but then is isn't necessarily 'apples to apples' either.
But, people will buy lots of those $600 laptops thinking they got such an incredible deal compared to Apple. It will break more quickly and never be anywhere near as good. And, unless they are tech competent, it will cost them more in the long run in terms of repair, tech support, and upgrading more quickly. (I've had relatives do this... and then come to me for tech support after I warned them... they are lucky they are relatives! )
My son is saving up for a laptop to create and edit videos (and gaming, etc.) and his friends think he's nuts and our relatives think we're crazy parents and he should just go buy an $800 Windows bargain. It's hard to explain the actually difference to them, as they aren't technically aware enough. Even he asks, Dad, why does it cost so much more? It is hard to understand unless you're into it. Why does a BMW cost more than a Pontiac Sunbird? Why does a Vitamix cost more than a Black & Decker? It's hard to explain if you just see a simple car or blender.
I was with you -- until you got to the part about justifying the cost of Macs... You make good points that a BMW has intangible benefits over a (say) Chevy that are hard to define. But, you also ignore the fact that, for many, they just want to get to Chicago and either the BMW or the Chevy will get them there in reasonable safety and comfort. But, you can buy 3 Chevy's for price of the BMW. Or, comparing the $600 mainstream laptop to the $3,000 MBP, have enough money left over to buy both an iPhone X and an iPad Pro...
GeorgeBMac said: I was with you -- until you got to the part about justifying the cost of Macs...
You make good points that a BMW has intangible benefits over a (say) Chevy that are hard to define. But, you also ignore the fact that, for many, they just want to get to Chicago and either the BMW or the Chevy will get them there in reasonable safety and comfort. But, you can buy 3 Chevy's for price of the BMW. Or, comparing the $600 mainstream laptop to the $3,000 MBP, have enough money left over to buy both an iPhone X and an iPad Pro...
Well, it was just sort of a rough analogy to get the concept across in a few categories where people interested in them might get the difference. For example, people who cook a bunch know that you can't do in a $100 blender what you can in a Vitamix, and you can't do things that you can nearly as well. And, yes, the Chevy will get you around, but it's a whole different driving experience. There's a qualitative and performance difference, not just brand favoritism.
That kind of applies, maybe even more strongly, to laptops. Can both the $600 laptop and the MBP send an email? Sure, and you could just get an iPhone SE or MacBook Air for it too. But, once you start talking about more intense and complex tasks, or if you care about the speed or overall 'feel' of the experience while getting the tasks done, then there's no real competition between the two.
So, like many other products, you have to determine what your actual needs are, what your wants are, and what kind of experience you're willing to pay for. But, it isn't like, say, some clothing from the fancy store where it was made in the same factory as the budget store clothes, possibly even with less quality but a 5x price tag. Many who criticize Apple seem to think that's what is really going on (which makes me so sick when I see Apple chasing simple fashion in some ways now).
If the SE2 is real, it'll have an A11, not an A10.
When the SE came out, it shipped with Apple's latest/best chip, the A9. When the 2015 iPod Touch came out, it featured Apple's latest/best chip, the A8. The pattern is pretty clear — when Apple releases a new product that isn't intended to be on an annual update schedule, they use their best tech, it's going to have a long shelf life.
Never going to happen. It is in the budget phone category, meaning lower cost, cheaper components and that signature of the SE model. Ever mid-school children avoid have this SE iPhone.
What an ignorant comment. It's about market differentiation, and price. It costs no more to make the A11 than the A10. In the long run, it may cost more to keep the A10 production line open instead of simply switching to a more universal chip. Also, think -- do you really believe it costs apple $100 more to put 32GB more RAM in your iPhone, or is it just Apple milking the system through differentiation to max out profitability and market share?
This is true. The cost of a CPU is the R&D; once that's done, there's nothing about the silicon that makes it magically more expensive than an older chip. Just look at the way Intel sells crippled high-performance chips to fill in their mid-tier market.
A funny and under-reported thing about the current line-up is the persistence of the 6S series. In the past, Apple would sell "the new generation, and the previous generation discounted." Now we've got the 8/X generation, the 7 gen, and the 6S still hanging around. That's nearly as big a change to Apple's strategy as introducing the X on top of the 8.
So the "low-end" tier looks like… 32gb SE $350 128gb SE $450 32gb 6S $450
If the 6S is the best-selling of these three models, consumers want affordable big phones. If it's the 128gb SE, there's a market for great small phones. If it's the 32gb SE, then yeah, it's all about budget.
Unfortunately none of us know what the results of this experiment are, but the fact that Apple released a 128gb SE at all (instead of keeping 16/64, or bumping to 32/64) tells me the market for great small phones is significant. If the 6S is outselling it, on the other hand, small phones are probably doomed.
GeorgeBMac said: I was with you -- until you got to the part about justifying the cost of Macs...
You make good points that a BMW has intangible benefits over a (say) Chevy that are hard to define. But, you also ignore the fact that, for many, they just want to get to Chicago and either the BMW or the Chevy will get them there in reasonable safety and comfort. But, you can buy 3 Chevy's for price of the BMW. Or, comparing the $600 mainstream laptop to the $3,000 MBP, have enough money left over to buy both an iPhone X and an iPad Pro...
Well, it was just sort of a rough analogy to get the concept across in a few categories where people interested in them might get the difference. For example, people who cook a bunch know that you can't do in a $100 blender what you can in a Vitamix, and you can't do things that you can nearly as well. And, yes, the Chevy will get you around, but it's a whole different driving experience. There's a qualitative and performance difference, not just brand favoritism.
That kind of applies, maybe even more strongly, to laptops. Can both the $600 laptop and the MBP send an email? Sure, and you could just get an iPhone SE or MacBook Air for it too. But, once you start talking about more intense and complex tasks, or if you care about the speed or overall 'feel' of the experience while getting the tasks done, then there's no real competition between the two.
So, like many other products, you have to determine what your actual needs are, what your wants are, and what kind of experience you're willing to pay for. But, it isn't like, say, some clothing from the fancy store where it was made in the same factory as the budget store clothes, possibly even with less quality but a 5x price tag. Many who criticize Apple seem to think that's what is really going on (which makes me so sick when I see Apple chasing simple fashion in some ways now).
I agree... Particularly the part about: "Many who criticize Apple seem to think that's what is really going on"
But, with Macs, I think Apple is pushing the boundaries of what has become a commodity market with their ultra premium prices. For many people, myself included, the price cannot be justified no matter how good it feels to use... But, using your car analogy: I admit that see more BMWs on the road than Chevy's. So OK, you're probably right.
Particularly the part about: "Many who criticize Apple seem to think that's what is really going on"
But, with Macs, I think Apple is pushing the boundaries of what has become a commodity market with their ultra premium prices. For many people, myself included, the price cannot be justified no matter how good it feels to use... But, using your car analogy: I admit that see more BMWs on the road than Chevy's. So OK, you're probably right.
Yes, even now with the 'pro' Mac equipment, as they seem more aimed at entrepreneurs and such with money than certain traditional pro segments. They are trying to get the best of both worlds... high margins and increased number of units. That's smart, and I wish them all the best with it... but that doesn't mean they should *only* do that and neglect other critical segments of their user-base (which I think will have costs that don't show up well on spreadsheets).
re: more BMWs than Chevys. - Heh, though you do realize we're having conversations about going AI with cars because some huge percentage of drivers can't even be bothered to pay attention to the road rather than their texting and Facebook. That isn't exactly saying much for their capacity to understand the difference between the two if they tried.
But, I think in many ways, that analogy also fits well to the computer market, as over the years, most of the PC people I interacted with made the decision on price alone, uninformed-bias, etc.... not actual sound calculated reasons.
Comments
Things I really want in the SE2:
The current (best) processor
Keep the flat sides, so it will sit on one end or side
3.5mm TRS jack ( I don't use it for ear buds / phones, but for injecting signals into audio systems)
More RAM wouldn't hurt
More battery wouldn't hurt
A DAC that will play 192/24 natively would be nice
The 'chin and 'forehead' could shrink a little...no biggy.
Things I don't care about:
Price
Thickness
Waterproof
3D touch
Wireless charging.
VR anything
iPhone SE 4" $349
iPhone SE 4.7" $449
iPhone 8 4.7" $599
iPhone 8 5.8" $699
iPhone X 5.8" $899
iPhone X 6.x" $999
Yes, not only have they done it with A10 during iPhone 6s era, another reason is the Custom GPU and Neural Engine, so assuming they dump iPhone 7 and 6s next year, every single iPhone in their line up will have their new Custom GPU and Neural Engine, important for AI and AR.
I am also hoping all iPhone SE and 8 will have Qualcomm X16, as currently being used in iPhone 8 and X. While The newer X will be all Intel, XMM7580. This is significant because it also means every iPhone sold next year will be capable of supporting FDD Massive MIMO, LAA, 4CA, Basically all the important pieces for 4.9G / LTE Advance Pro. This is a huge incentive for carrier to upgrade their network.
I am also secretly hoping next year X finally get 4GB Memory.
That's why I would like to see Apple release both an SE-2 and an SE-X with a no-bezel OLED display and A11 processor...
... (plus just name would be fun!)
But, to be honest, the Apple Watch with LTE could attract some who have been attracted to the SE due its size. I am thinking of workers and athletes who want access to phone, messages, etc but don't want to carry a big phone while their doing their thing. Those people could get a bigger phone and leave it in the car without losing connection.
Those buying the latest & greatest pay for the research and tooling. Those willing to accept 2nd generation get quality products at far lower prices.
Keep the same form factor, size and weight.
A11
Add force touch w/ mechanical home button and Taptic engine.
Keep 3.5 headphone jack ( Apple dongle situation (donglegate) totally unreasonable - I can't plug Apple earbuds into laptop without adapter no lightening port on mac??!! say what? what a stupid decision )
Keep price low
I'll buy 20 units
Happy Thanksgiving everybody - we can still say that I hope.
IMO, the big screen phones are kind of a worst of all worlds unless you're trying to use it as a fairly primary device.
Dimension B.
(I suppose I'd better be careful, being in Canada... the black-choppers might show up and whisk me away to some tribunal.)
My guess is Apple will raise the price of the SE2 by at least the $50 it dropped from the current SE. And the SE2 with improved specs will still be the budget, entry level phone with not one spec exceeding or even equaling that of any other iPhone.
I agree that Apple was surprised at it's domestic sales which I believe were motivated by the size and form factor over price. This was an unexpected plus for Apple.
My 5s is running iOS 11 and it's really slow when moving from screen to screen, or loading a screen. Scrolling through any screen that has a list of apps is slow and halting. The 5s is the lowest rung on the current upgrade ladder and likely won't be listed as compatible with iOS 12.
The SE still uses first gen Touch ID, same as my 5s. It works perfectly about 85-90% of the time for me. The remaining times require multiple attempts or resorting to my passcode.
The 6s got new and improved TID and the 7 got the non-button but I don't think TID was a new iteration, just the new non-button.
I hope Apple keeps the exact form factor of the current SE. It change the look very slightly from the 5s' polished chamfer on the metal band. If the next SE looked exactly like this one, I'd be ok with that.
I hope they were surprised, though since they combined 'budget' with the form factor, it's hard to know which was the main driver. And, it's sad that you're probably correct in that they won't make one of that form factor with feature parity.
The main problem with the 5s is that it only has 1GB or RAM, whereas the SE has 2GB. iOS 11 feels as good as iOS 10, possibly a bit faster. I've had little issue with Touch ID, though it's really dependent on the state of one's fingers. The air is super-dry up here in the winter, and I'll have trouble if I haven't kept my hands in good shape (i.e.: lotion). That's one advantage of Face ID... though it opens up a whole bunch of other use-case problems (like the phone mounted or sitting in the car... Touch ID just took a finger press... Face ID will require removing the phone, or unbuckling and leaning, etc.).
I also hope Apple keeps the ***EXACT*** form factor, and I'd be quite disappointed if they don't. IMO, the iPhones between have felt and looked cheap. That's one advantage of the 10, is that it looks/feels like a quality phone once again (even though I prefer the look/feel of the SE).
Agreed... I think all this 'Apple doesn't make budget stuff' is baloney. They've almost always had a model in their various lines that was priced to compete with competitors or offer a relatively entry level model. My first Mac (I used them before I had my own) was a Mac LC. What they don't do is make cheap $*(#@ just to lure people into buying, like most of the rest of the brands.
Like take laptops. People are complaining right now about the price of the MBP. And, some criticism is due (especially with the flaws), and in terms of price, they are higher than they were last generation. But, the MBP is still competitively priced for what it actually is.
Go to Dell or HP and actually spec out a similar machine and the price will be in the same range. The difference is that with Dell or HP, you *CAN* actually buy a really cheapo model with spinning HD, crapy screen, too little RAM, etc. ... or even some less premium brand and get into the $500-$1k range that Apple doesn't even offer. Apple has a close-to-$1k model too, but then is isn't necessarily 'apples to apples' either.
But, people will buy lots of those $600 laptops thinking they got such an incredible deal compared to Apple. It will break more quickly and never be anywhere near as good. And, unless they are tech competent, it will cost them more in the long run in terms of repair, tech support, and upgrading more quickly. (I've had relatives do this... and then come to me for tech support after I warned them... they are lucky they are relatives!
My son is saving up for a laptop to create and edit videos (and gaming, etc.) and his friends think he's nuts and our relatives think we're crazy parents and he should just go buy an $800 Windows bargain. It's hard to explain the actually difference to them, as they aren't technically aware enough. Even he asks, Dad, why does it cost so much more? It is hard to understand unless you're into it. Why does a BMW cost more than a Pontiac Sunbird? Why does a Vitamix cost more than a Black & Decker? It's hard to explain if you just see a simple car or blender.
You make good points that a BMW has intangible benefits over a (say) Chevy that are hard to define.
But, you also ignore the fact that, for many, they just want to get to Chicago and either the BMW or the Chevy will get them there in reasonable safety and comfort. But, you can buy 3 Chevy's for price of the BMW. Or, comparing the $600 mainstream laptop to the $3,000 MBP, have enough money left over to buy both an iPhone X and an iPad Pro...
That kind of applies, maybe even more strongly, to laptops. Can both the $600 laptop and the MBP send an email? Sure, and you could just get an iPhone SE or MacBook Air for it too. But, once you start talking about more intense and complex tasks, or if you care about the speed or overall 'feel' of the experience while getting the tasks done, then there's no real competition between the two.
So, like many other products, you have to determine what your actual needs are, what your wants are, and what kind of experience you're willing to pay for. But, it isn't like, say, some clothing from the fancy store where it was made in the same factory as the budget store clothes, possibly even with less quality but a 5x price tag. Many who criticize Apple seem to think that's what is really going on (which makes me so sick when I see Apple chasing simple fashion in some ways now).
A funny and under-reported thing about the current line-up is the persistence of the 6S series. In the past, Apple would sell "the new generation, and the previous generation discounted." Now we've got the 8/X generation, the 7 gen, and the 6S still hanging around. That's nearly as big a change to Apple's strategy as introducing the X on top of the 8.
So the "low-end" tier looks like…
32gb SE $350
128gb SE $450
32gb 6S $450
If the 6S is the best-selling of these three models, consumers want affordable big phones. If it's the 128gb SE, there's a market for great small phones. If it's the 32gb SE, then yeah, it's all about budget.
Unfortunately none of us know what the results of this experiment are, but the fact that Apple released a 128gb SE at all (instead of keeping 16/64, or bumping to 32/64) tells me the market for great small phones is significant. If the 6S is outselling it, on the other hand, small phones are probably doomed.
Particularly the part about:
"Many who criticize Apple seem to think that's what is really going on"
But, with Macs, I think Apple is pushing the boundaries of what has become a commodity market with their ultra premium prices. For many people, myself included, the price cannot be justified no matter how good it feels to use... But, using your car analogy: I admit that see more BMWs on the road than Chevy's. So OK, you're probably right.
re: more BMWs than Chevys. - Heh, though you do realize we're having conversations about going AI with cars because some huge percentage of drivers can't even be bothered to pay attention to the road rather than their texting and Facebook. That isn't exactly saying much for their capacity to understand the difference between the two if they tried.
But, I think in many ways, that analogy also fits well to the computer market, as over the years, most of the PC people I interacted with made the decision on price alone, uninformed-bias, etc.... not actual sound calculated reasons.