Tim is at the apex of hypocritical CEOs. He's a complete pushover when it comes to China, and will cut every corner regarding privacy when it comes to making a buck there. In the U.S. however, he'll fight tooth and nail when it comes to helping the feds in unlock a terrorist phone.
You’re an idiot.
Lol.. was the first thing that popped up in my head when I read his post..
A US Senator talking about moral obligations? I just don't quite know how to react to that.
To be fair Mr. Cook does feel he, and by extension Apple, has a "moral obligation" to speak out when he sees inequality or hate on display. According to PatentlyApple the problem is it's a selective moral obligation that depends on the source of that hate or inequality. You might disagree of course. http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2017/08/apples-ceo-sends-out-another-preachy-memo.html
Regarding China specifically Mr. Cook really has little choice other than "kiss the ring" IMO. Apple can't afford to alienate Chinese leadership, something Cook is more comfortable doing and worries about less when he does so in Western countries. I don't think he's too concerned with aggravating US or EU leaders. Not eh Chinese tho. Apple absolutely needs Chinese manufacturing and cooperation and they've put themselves in the position of needing the immense Chinese iPhone revenue. Chinese leaders have no qualms about curtailing companies that avoid playing ball with them, so Apple plays ball while very gently nudging Chinese leadership to be more open.
A US Senator talking about moral obligations? I just don't quite know how to react to that.
To be fair Mr. Cook does feel he, and by extension Apple, has a "moral obligation" to speak out when he sees inequality or hate on display. According to PatentlyApple the problem is it's a selective moral obligation that depends on the source of that hate or inequality. You might disagree of course. http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2017/08/apples-ceo-sends-out-another-preachy-memo.html
Regarding China specifically Mr. Cook really has little choice other than "kiss the ring" IMO. Apple can't afford to alienate Chinese leadership, something Cook is more comfortable doing and worries about less when he does so in Western countries. I don't think he's too concerned with aggravating US or EU leaders. Not eh Chinese tho. Apple absolutely needs Chinese manufacturing and cooperation and they've put themselves in the position of needing the immense Chinese iPhone revenue. Chinese leaders have no qualms about curtailing companies that avoid playing ball with them, so Apple plays ball while very gently nudging Chinese leadership to be more open.
Stop conflating things (per your usual style).
Do you not see that there is an important distinction between the issue in the memo you trot out and the complexities of doing business in another legal jurisdiction? What is the legal conundrum, if any, he’s dealing with in the memo you cite?
Tim is at the apex of hypocritical CEOs. He's a complete pushover when it comes to China, and will cut every corner regarding privacy when it comes to making a buck there. In the U.S. however, he'll fight tooth and nail when it comes to helping the feds in unlock a terrorist phone.
dewme said: ... job that the US government, and more specifically, the US State Department is responsible for? As in that moribund government agency that's been systematically neutered by the Moron in Chief.
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to. While I have my dislike of Trump for many reasons, I hope he does a heck of a lot more neutering of the State Dept! You know all those Syrian refugees? US State Dept work there. The other 6 countries we've destabilized or are going to in the ME? Yep, those folks (and Congress people). Millions of lives destroyed... thanks, USA. At least Trump ordered the CIA units home who were propping up the terrorists.
Please take a look at the topics under "What We Do" on the US Dept of State home page. Working with foreign governments to relieve human right issues, ensure US companies get fair access to foreign markets, etc., are all things that are clearly in the wheelhouse of the state department and not the CEO of a technology company. The problem we have with the current administration is that they politically cherry pick the things that they don't like about an agency or policy, and instead of fixing the things they don't like about it, they destroy the entire organization or install a puppet leader, family members included, to decimate, neuter, or use it as a tool of destruction against the very purpose that the organization was created to serve. It's a creeping rot that started at the top.
Tim is at the apex of hypocritical CEOs. He's a complete pushover when it comes to China, and will cut every corner regarding privacy when it comes to making a buck there. In the U.S. however, he'll fight tooth and nail when it comes to helping the feds in unlock a terrorist phone.
Well, and even fund organizations trying to shut-down free-speech in the USA.
bshank said: China is a sovereign country. Apple does business there. Apple’s policy is compliance wherever it does business.
While at the same time taking 'moral' stands in the USA. I think we get this... we're just pointing out the hypocrisy.
Jesus christ, which part of “Apple is a US company and not a Chinese one” is so hard for you to understand? The US part, or the not-Chinese part?
And please, do tell us how Cook is funding organizations trying to shut down free speech. This ought to be good...
Damn! I thought it was an Irish company! Fooled me!
A US Senator talking about moral obligations? I just don't quite know how to react to that.
To be fair Mr. Cook does feel he, and by extension Apple, has a "moral obligation" to speak out when he sees inequality or hate on display. According to PatentlyApple the problem is it's a selective moral obligation that depends on the source of that hate or inequality. You might disagree of course. http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2017/08/apples-ceo-sends-out-another-preachy-memo.html
Regarding China specifically Mr. Cook really has little choice other than "kiss the ring" IMO. Apple can't afford to alienate Chinese leadership, something Cook is more comfortable doing and worries about less when he does so in Western countries. I don't think he's too concerned with aggravating US or EU leaders. Not eh Chinese tho. Apple absolutely needs Chinese manufacturing and cooperation and they've put themselves in the position of needing the immense Chinese iPhone revenue. Chinese leaders have no qualms about curtailing companies that avoid playing ball with them, so Apple plays ball while very gently nudging Chinese leadership to be more open.
Stop conflating things (per your usual style).
Do you not see that there is an important distinction between the issue in the memo you trot out and the complexities of doing business in another legal jurisdiction? What is the legal conundrum, if any, he’s dealing with in the memo you cite?
Did you even read my post?? There's an entire paragraph about the distinction and it begins with "regarding China" in case you can't find it. :eyeroll:
Tim is at the apex of hypocritical CEOs. He's a complete pushover when it comes to China, and will cut every corner regarding privacy when it comes to making a buck there. In the U.S. however, he'll fight tooth and nail when it comes to helping the feds in unlock a terrorist phone.
China is a sovereign country. Apple does business there. Apple’s policy is compliance wherever it does business. They make a lot of money that way and it benefits our economy. Don’t like that Apple will sell Macs and iPhones to the Chinese? Then don’t buy Apple. It’s really that easy bro. You’re not going to start some sort of anti-Apple revolution here.
Its the hypocrisy though. What if the US declares RT a "foreign agent". Will Tim try fight that? I doubt it.
Tim is a good CEO, but he is too political. The problem with being too right on about some subjects ( diversity etc) is that it will rankle when other more serious human rights issues are brushed aside for the bottom line.
Don’t you just love it when members of Congress, who are wholly owned subsidiaries of corporations and pressure group lobbyists, lecture others on morality?
U.S. Senator Patrick Leahy has moral obligation to take his free expression issue to Chinese directly. Politicians talk to much jibber-jabber and work little. Wish they learn from Chinese. For outsiders, doing business in China as is difficult and don't make it more.
Companies obligations of to make money and follow the rule of law. As you pointed out, if the US government want to change China policies they are more than welcome to go have the conversation. You know the US government is not going to come to Apple defense if China closes they out like they did google and face book. Because Apple follows the rule of law in China, they are many high paid people working in the US. If Apple decide to be the political arm for the US government, you can bet the US government is not going to help those who loose their jobs find a new one.
StrangeDays said: Jesus christ, which part of “Apple is a US company and not a Chinese one” is so hard for you to understand? The US part, or the not-Chinese part?
And please, do tell us how Cook is funding organizations trying to shut down free speech. This ought to be good...
I thought a few weeks back everyone was arguing that they were an international company. But, my point was that morality doesn't change when you change location between the USA and China. It's irrelevant what their laws are... if Apple is standing on a moral claim in the USA, it's hypocritical not to take the same stand anywhere else. If they are simply rule-following in either place, then they don't have grounds to make a fuss about laws they don't agree with.
Cook donated millions to SPLC. SPLC has put a bunch of wrong-think organizations and individuals on their 'hate group' list, not only attempting to censor them, but impacting their livelihoods and even endangering their lives. (Essentially, Cook is funding a USA-based terrorist organization and hate-group.)
The SPLC a terrorist org? You are completely delusional if that's what you're suggesting, so thanks for making your crank-factor clear. The SPLC's entire premise is based on freedom of speech and the press.
"The Student Press Law Center is an advocate for student First Amendment rights, for freedom of online speech, and for open government on campus. The SPLC provides information, training and legal assistance at no charge to student journalists and the educators who work with them."
As for China -- Apple is based in the USA, which is its corporate headquarters. It is a US citizen, and as such is entitled to participate in our democratic republic. It has the legal right to do so. None of this is the case for Apple in China.
You argument is as flimsy as my stating this one -- that if you are a proponent of democracy then it's your moral obligation to pack your bags and champion this cause in China. You believe in democracy don't you? Then why in god's name aren't you in China beating the drum for democracy! Or in Saudi Arabia? What's stopping you, Mr. Werks? Why are you not overseas spending your savings promoting your values? It's your moral imperative by your own reasoning! Right? Wrong. It's a stupid argument, and the reason it's stupid is why you're here and not there doing what you're asking Apple to do.
But I get it, you're mad they don't make the Macs you remember and Cook is supportive of gay rights.
Tim is at the apex of hypocritical CEOs. He's a complete pushover when it comes to China, and will cut every corner regarding privacy when it comes to making a buck there. In the U.S. however, he'll fight tooth and nail when it comes to helping the feds in unlock a terrorist phone.
Well, and even fund organizations trying to shut-down free-speech in the USA.
bshank said: China is a sovereign country. Apple does business there. Apple’s policy is compliance wherever it does business.
While at the same time taking 'moral' stands in the USA. I think we get this... we're just pointing out the hypocrisy.
Jesus christ, which part of “Apple is a US company and not a Chinese one” is so hard for you to understand? The US part, or the not-Chinese part?
And please, do tell us how Cook is funding organizations trying to shut down free speech. This ought to be good...
Damn! I thought it was an Irish company! Fooled me!
Nope, that's where their European subsidiary is based and where its tax obligations reside for the region.
well, yes, apple should but can they? a lot of the policies vary region to region. in a state like china, for instance, they can either, follow the established laws obediently or just make a peaceful exit. there's nothing in-between. and seeing most providers do indeed obediently follow those laws, i would suggest the freedom of speech slogans and stances in first world nations are nothing but a marketing gimmick. when china demanded apple take down those vpn apps, apple had no option other than compliance. true, users were still able to get around by configuring vpns like ivacy and nord without app, manually but again, apple had already played its part.
StrangeDays said: Jesus christ, which part of “Apple is a US company and not a Chinese one” is so hard for you to understand? The US part, or the not-Chinese part?
And please, do tell us how Cook is funding organizations trying to shut down free speech. This ought to be good...
I thought a few weeks back everyone was arguing that they were an international company. But, my point was that morality doesn't change when you change location between the USA and China. It's irrelevant what their laws are... if Apple is standing on a moral claim in the USA, it's hypocritical not to take the same stand anywhere else. If they are simply rule-following in either place, then they don't have grounds to make a fuss about laws they don't agree with.
Cook donated millions to SPLC. SPLC has put a bunch of wrong-think organizations and individuals on their 'hate group' list, not only attempting to censor them, but impacting their livelihoods and even endangering their lives. (Essentially, Cook is funding a USA-based terrorist organization and hate-group.)
The SPLC a terrorist org? You are completely delusional if that's what you're suggesting, so thanks for making your crank-factor clear. The SPLC's entire premise is based on freedom of speech and the press.
"The Student Press Law Center is an advocate for student First Amendment rights, for freedom of online speech, and for open government on campus. The SPLC provides information, training and legal assistance at no charge to student journalists and the educators who work with them."
As for China -- Apple is based in the USA, which is its corporate headquarters. It is a US citizen, and as such is entitled to participate in our democratic republic. It has the legal right to do so. None of this is the case for Apple in China.
You argument is as flimsy as my stating this one -- that if you are a proponent of democracy then it's your moral obligation to pack your bags and champion this cause in China. You believe in democracy don't you? Then why in god's name aren't you in China beating the drum for democracy! Or in Saudi Arabia? What's stopping you, Mr. Werks? Why are you not overseas spending your savings promoting your values? It's your moral imperative by your own reasoning! Right? Wrong. It's a stupid argument, and the reason it's stupid is why you're here and not there doing what you're asking Apple to do.
But I get it, you're mad they don't make the Macs you remember and Cook is supportive of gay rights.
He's stil a crank though for labelling people he disagrees with as terrorists and hate groups as opposed to real terrorists and hate groups. SPLC, like all organizations, has issues I agree with and those I don't.
But then again, I'm a moderate conservative that hates Trump and the alt-right racist asshats that have taken over the GOP. But hell, even the moderates have kissed the ring and prostituted themselves to get a broken tax cut thats going to cause huge deficits. For a short while I was a big fan of Lindsey Graham but not after last week.
I dunno what the heck the GOP stands for anymore but it sure as hell isn't fiscal responsibility and deficit reduction. The only republican senators with any balls either have terminal cancer or won't be running again. That pretty much means I'm essentially politcally orphaned.
As long as Apple totally refuse to pay any tax at all what so ever, Tim can take his “moral” and stick where his boyfriend normally visit him. Every single crown they earn inside EU is funnelled through Irish tax heaven with 0,0005 tax, i.e. no tax at all.
Don’t you just love it when members of Congress, who are wholly owned subsidiaries of corporations and pressure group lobbyists, lecture others on morality?
Beware of false equivalencies and generalizations... 49 members of the senate voted against the latest giveaway to billionaires...
Wrong doing often hides behind the excuse of: "Well, they all do it"
StrangeDays said: Jesus christ, which part of “Apple is a US company and not a Chinese one” is so hard for you to understand? The US part, or the not-Chinese part?
And please, do tell us how Cook is funding organizations trying to shut down free speech. This ought to be good...
I thought a few weeks back everyone was arguing that they were an international company. But, my point was that morality doesn't change when you change location between the USA and China. It's irrelevant what their laws are... if Apple is standing on a moral claim in the USA, it's hypocritical not to take the same stand anywhere else. If they are simply rule-following in either place, then they don't have grounds to make a fuss about laws they don't agree with.
Cook donated millions to SPLC. SPLC has put a bunch of wrong-think organizations and individuals on their 'hate group' list, not only attempting to censor them, but impacting their livelihoods and even endangering their lives. (Essentially, Cook is funding a USA-based terrorist organization and hate-group.)
The SPLC a terrorist org? You are completely delusional if that's what you're suggesting, so thanks for making your crank-factor clear. The SPLC's entire premise is based on freedom of speech and the press.
"The Student Press Law Center is an advocate for student First Amendment rights, for freedom of online speech, and for open government on campus. The SPLC provides information, training and legal assistance at no charge to student journalists and the educators who work with them."
As for China -- Apple is based in the USA, which is its corporate headquarters. It is a US citizen, and as such is entitled to participate in our democratic republic. It has the legal right to do so. None of this is the case for Apple in China.
You argument is as flimsy as my stating this one -- that if you are a proponent of democracy then it's your moral obligation to pack your bags and champion this cause in China. You believe in democracy don't you? Then why in god's name aren't you in China beating the drum for democracy! Or in Saudi Arabia? What's stopping you, Mr. Werks? Why are you not overseas spending your savings promoting your values? It's your moral imperative by your own reasoning! Right? Wrong. It's a stupid argument, and the reason it's stupid is why you're here and not there doing what you're asking Apple to do.
But I get it, you're mad they don't make the Macs you remember and Cook is supportive of gay rights.
While I agree with your points, SPLC stands for "Southern Poverty Law Center" and it got its start with a lawyer Morris Dees fighting civil rights cases. It has since broadened its scope to identify discriminatory hate groups and often brings civil litigation against them -- so the hate groups tend to hate the SPLC even more than the minority groups they are organized to hate. Haters hate nothing more than to be hated.
Comments
Lol.. was the first thing that popped up in my head when I read his post..
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2017/08/apples-ceo-sends-out-another-preachy-memo.html
Regarding China specifically Mr. Cook really has little choice other than "kiss the ring" IMO. Apple can't afford to alienate Chinese leadership, something Cook is more comfortable doing and worries about less when he does so in Western countries. I don't think he's too concerned with aggravating US or EU leaders. Not eh Chinese tho. Apple absolutely needs Chinese manufacturing and cooperation and they've put themselves in the position of needing the immense Chinese iPhone revenue. Chinese leaders have no qualms about curtailing companies that avoid playing ball with them, so Apple plays ball while very gently nudging Chinese leadership to be more open.
Do you not see that there is an important distinction between the issue in the memo you trot out and the complexities of doing business in another legal jurisdiction? What is the legal conundrum, if any, he’s dealing with in the memo you cite?
Tim is a good CEO, but he is too political. The problem with being too right on about some subjects ( diversity etc) is that it will rankle when other more serious human rights issues are brushed aside for the bottom line.
Companies obligations of to make money and follow the rule of law. As you pointed out, if the US government want to change China policies they are more than welcome to go have the conversation. You know the US government is not going to come to Apple defense if China closes they out like they did google and face book. Because Apple follows the rule of law in China, they are many high paid people working in the US. If Apple decide to be the political arm for the US government, you can bet the US government is not going to help those who loose their jobs find a new one.
"The Student Press Law Center is an advocate for student First Amendment rights, for freedom of online speech, and for open government on campus. The SPLC provides information, training and legal assistance at no charge to student journalists and the educators who work with them."
http://www.splc.org
As for China -- Apple is based in the USA, which is its corporate headquarters. It is a US citizen, and as such is entitled to participate in our democratic republic. It has the legal right to do so. None of this is the case for Apple in China.
You argument is as flimsy as my stating this one -- that if you are a proponent of democracy then it's your moral obligation to pack your bags and champion this cause in China. You believe in democracy don't you? Then why in god's name aren't you in China beating the drum for democracy! Or in Saudi Arabia? What's stopping you, Mr. Werks? Why are you not overseas spending your savings promoting your values? It's your moral imperative by your own reasoning! Right? Wrong. It's a stupid argument, and the reason it's stupid is why you're here and not there doing what you're asking Apple to do.
But I get it, you're mad they don't make the Macs you remember and Cook is supportive of gay rights.
Nope, that's where their European subsidiary is based and where its tax obligations reside for the region.
https://www.splcenter.org/
He's stil a crank though for labelling people he disagrees with as terrorists and hate groups as opposed to real terrorists and hate groups. SPLC, like all organizations, has issues I agree with and those I don't.
But then again, I'm a moderate conservative that hates Trump and the alt-right racist asshats that have taken over the GOP. But hell, even the moderates have kissed the ring and prostituted themselves to get a broken tax cut thats going to cause huge deficits. For a short while I was a big fan of Lindsey Graham but not after last week.
I dunno what the heck the GOP stands for anymore but it sure as hell isn't fiscal responsibility and deficit reduction. The only republican senators with any balls either have terminal cancer or won't be running again. That pretty much means I'm essentially politcally orphaned.
Every single crown they earn inside EU is funnelled through Irish tax heaven with 0,0005 tax, i.e. no tax at all.
49 members of the senate voted against the latest giveaway to billionaires...
Wrong doing often hides behind the excuse of: "Well, they all do it"