Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
The cost of the components isnt as big a deal as one unanswered question - will it trottle? Seriously if this machine suffers from overheating it will end up being damned industry wide.
I know Intel has a process rev giving even better thermals but that is a lot of compute to pack in a thin enclosure. If it overheats doing pro work people will be pissed.
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
The cost of the components isnt as big a deal as one unanswered question - will it trottle? Seriously if this machine suffers from overheating it will end up being damned industry wide.
I know Intel has a process rev giving even better thermals but that is a lot of compute to pack in a thin enclosure. If it overheats doing pro work people will be pissed.
Agreed. I'm not a "professional" but that was my pet peeve with various Macs over the years. Given this model were horsepower is the key selling point, hopefully Apple designers were willing to sacrifice in favor of performance more than usual.
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.
Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.
What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.
...but again, this assumes your time has no value, that a single provider warranty has no value, and ignores the awesome longevity, resale value, and lower TCO of a Mac. A Mac’s value is more than a bunch of PC parts slapped into a case.
Why are you posting a build from June? The one I posted it from today.
Outside of the keyboard, mouse, OS and monitor, what major components am I missing?
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.
Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.
What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.
...but again, this assumes your time has no value, that a single provider warranty has no value, and ignores the awesome longevity, resale value, and lower TCO of a Mac. A Mac’s value is more than a bunch of PC parts slapped into a case.
Why are you posting a build from June? The one I posted it from today.
Outside of the keyboard, mouse, OS and monitor, what major components am I missing?
There are also trade-offs for the warranty, while it's not through a single company, the duration on individual parts is often between 3 and 7 years.
Putting this together will take 15-20 minutes. One would end up saving more time because they'd have a faster machine.
You wouldn't need to worry about resale in the short term because you'd have a system with 64 PCIe lanes, 4 PCIe 3.0 x16 slots, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1 slot, 3 Ultra M.2 ports, 1 U.2 port, 8 SATA3 ports and 8 memory slots. It's easy to just upgrade.
You're missing Thunderbolt 3 which is a major component. Its also missing 10Gb/sec Ethernet. You're still failing to realize that the display is a major component and its puzzling why you left it out. Its a major component and a major selling point of the iMac itself.
Nobody cares about short term value...its the long term value. There are only so many things you can upgrade. 4 or 5 years from now the upgrade options will be just as limited as the the iMac Pro so you're not really gaining much there. The bus speed today will be just as slow today as it will be in 5yrs.
I seriously doubt the speed of this amazing CPU you keep pushing isn't enough to make up for the time spent to build the PC (which more Professionals don't want to do and will take most more than 15-20 minutes...thats BS!), the time spent troubleshooting issues, installing the OS and the apps they need, etc. As I said before, there are a lot of Professionals who already use a Mac so why would they go through the pain of switching to a different platform, building the PC (if they even know how), installing the OS, etc?
How about the experience of using a Mac? The integration of Apple services and other hardware? What part is 7yrs on the warranty in your build? And don't tell me the case either. As said by @StrangeDays, there's a hell of a lot more to a Mac than just the sum of its parts. If you just want to be a BestBuy geek and just worry about specs then be my guest, but there's a hell of a lot more to a computer than the specs.
Thunderbolt 3 isn't nearly that important when you have a motherboard with that much expansion and 64 PCIe lanes.
2x 10 Gb/s Ethernet can be added for $175 extra in the PCIe x1 slot, which might not be needed.
The display is left out because it gives the option to choose a display or multiple displays that best suite your needs.
In 4 to 5 years from now the upgrade options will NOT be just as limited as the iMac Pro. That's astonishing to think you would even suggest that. I'm at a loss of words.
Threadripper 1950X offers some considerable performance as a CPU, but the GPU as well is the Radeon Vega Frontier Edition with 16 GB HBM2, that's a lot better than the Radeon Pro Vega 56 with 8 GB HBM2.
Building it might take less than 15 minutes if you know what you're doing. If you're really taking your time then maybe at most an hour. Setup is also really easy with new operating systems like Windows 10, it even finds and installs all of the drivers.
If you want a pre-built with a singular warranty/customer service, next month companies like Lenovo and HP will be able to sell Threadripper (Alienware had exclusivity till the end of 2017).
Turns out it's actually 10 years for the power supply. The liquid cooling is 5 years. The RAM is lifetime. The motherboard, GPU, SSD and CPU are 3 years.
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.
Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.
What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.
...but again, this assumes your time has no value, that a single provider warranty has no value, and ignores the awesome longevity, resale value, and lower TCO of a Mac. A Mac’s value is more than a bunch of PC parts slapped into a case.
Why are you posting a build from June? The one I posted it from today.
Outside of the keyboard, mouse, OS and monitor, what major components am I missing?
There are also trade-offs for the warranty, while it's not through a single company, the duration on individual parts is often between 3 and 7 years.
Putting this together will take 15-20 minutes. One would end up saving more time because they'd have a faster machine.
You wouldn't need to worry about resale in the short term because you'd have a system with 64 PCIe lanes, 4 PCIe 3.0 x16 slots, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1 slot, 3 Ultra M.2 ports, 1 U.2 port, 8 SATA3 ports and 8 memory slots. It's easy to just upgrade.
I posted it because it's an article from PC Gamer from June and it's 1) not missing major components like yours, and 2) good enough for the point.
I built gaming rigs for two decades for myself and others. So let me ask you:
- Why are you still pretending your list of missing components is the same as a complete Mac? - Why are you still ignoring the cost of your build time (15-20 minutes! good one bro...yes if only)? - Why are you still ignoring the cost of self-support? - Why are you still ignoring the hassle of multiple vendors who each point "that away" when you try to nail down a support issue? - Why are you still ignoring the longer resale value of a Mac? - Why are you still ignoring the TCO?
I'll tell you why -- because you're either intellectually dishonest, or delusional, or just the latest troll to pop by. Probably all three.
But we get it -- you're a gaming PC guy and you think build-yer-own systems are exactly the same as a Mac. Been there, dude. But one day when you're tired and bored with all the dicking around perhaps you'll reach the value proposition space where I am now. But until then, why bother wasting everybody's time coming to an Apple site to tell us you think DIY PCs are better than Macs? Who cares? What do you imagine we'll do with that rather useless information? Change our world views on computing platforms because some guy likes DIY PCs? No man.
Just don't buy it. We need a truly modular Mac Pro, not iMac Pro. But a standalone Mac Pro machine with upgradable slots.
No, you mean "you" need that. I don't. I mount my iMac via a VESA arm onto my clean, wooden desk surface, and I don't want a bunch of shit sitting everywhere. I earn my living and occasionally play on this configuration, and it's my computing preference. I don't upgrade the machine very often, and I've never had the display go out, so an AIO solution is an acceptable trade-off for me. YMMV.
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.
Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.
What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.
...but again, this assumes your time has no value, that a single provider warranty has no value, and ignores the awesome longevity, resale value, and lower TCO of a Mac. A Mac’s value is more than a bunch of PC parts slapped into a case.
Why are you posting a build from June? The one I posted it from today.
Outside of the keyboard, mouse, OS and monitor, what major components am I missing?
There are also trade-offs for the warranty, while it's not through a single company, the duration on individual parts is often between 3 and 7 years.
Putting this together will take 15-20 minutes. One would end up saving more time because they'd have a faster machine.
You wouldn't need to worry about resale in the short term because you'd have a system with 64 PCIe lanes, 4 PCIe 3.0 x16 slots, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1 slot, 3 Ultra M.2 ports, 1 U.2 port, 8 SATA3 ports and 8 memory slots. It's easy to just upgrade.
The cooler is large, noisy and probably the H100 is the better option for the thread ripper. If it were my build I'd go with the Noctura and live with a bit less cooling to get a quieter solution. I guess going with a louder budget case on a $3K build is a personal decision and the PSU is solid but I tend to pay extra for quieter gear.
Get premium parts that are quiet and that $2000 budget drops quickly. Also, by discounting the monitor you really are stacking the deck as you can get crappy 4K displays for cheap. You like to hand wave that part but the iMac monitor is nice. It's not an Eizo but really nice...and better if you're video editing vs doing stuff for print.
/shrug
This isn't the PC I would build. And even if it was, it's not a 15 minute build. I'm pretty sure the last time I installed Windows it took about 15 minutes for a bare install. That's before all the updates that tends to happen. From a pure hardware build perspective, I guess you maybe could just slap all the parts together in 15-20 mins but I've spent that long being anal about wire management. That's assuming that the cooler isn't too big and hits something, everything goes on clean, you didn't lose the DOA lotto, etc. Then I tend to do some kind of burn in test because, yeah, all those warranties sound great until you have to deal with their customer support. Better to test everything to have anything that'll suffer from infant mortality die quickly within the return period.
Meh...building a white box is something an enthusiast might do. It's not something I'd bother with as a studio. At the end of it all with a monitor, better parts, etc you're saving maybe $500 and for me MacOS and my time is worth more than $500 over Windows and dealing with some idiot CSR for hours because I lost the DOA lotto.
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.
Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.
What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.
...but again, this assumes your time has no value, that a single provider warranty has no value, and ignores the awesome longevity, resale value, and lower TCO of a Mac. A Mac’s value is more than a bunch of PC parts slapped into a case.
Why are you posting a build from June? The one I posted it from today.
Outside of the keyboard, mouse, OS and monitor, what major components am I missing?
There are also trade-offs for the warranty, while it's not through a single company, the duration on individual parts is often between 3 and 7 years.
Putting this together will take 15-20 minutes. One would end up saving more time because they'd have a faster machine.
You wouldn't need to worry about resale in the short term because you'd have a system with 64 PCIe lanes, 4 PCIe 3.0 x16 slots, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1 slot, 3 Ultra M.2 ports, 1 U.2 port, 8 SATA3 ports and 8 memory slots. It's easy to just upgrade.
I posted it because it's an article from PC Gamer from June and it's 1) not missing major components like yours, and 2) good enough for the point.
I built gaming rigs for two decades for myself and others. So let me ask you:
- Why are you still pretending your list of missing components is the same as a complete Mac? - Why are you still ignoring the cost of your build time (15-20 minutes! good one bro...yes if only)? - Why are you still ignoring the cost of self-support? - Why are you still ignoring the hassle of multiple vendors who each point "that away" when you try to nail down a support issue? - Why are you still ignoring the longer resale value of a Mac? - Why are you still ignoring the TCO?
I'll tell you why -- because you're either intellectually dishonest, or delusional, or just the latest troll to pop by. Probably all three.
But we get it -- you're a gaming PC guy and you think build-yer-own systems are exactly the same as a Mac. Been there, dude. But one day when you're tired and bored with all the dicking around perhaps you'll reach the value proposition space where I am now. But until then, why bother wasting everybody's time coming to an Apple site to tell us you think DIY PCs are better than Macs? Who cares? What do you imagine we'll do with that rather useless information? Change our world views on computing platforms because some guy likes DIY PCs? No man.
It's from June, Threadripper and Vega hadn't even launched then. My posted build is not missing major components, like I said, you can select your own monitor or monitors to better suite your needs. If you can't build it yourself and need a singular warranty, Lenovo and HP will have systems with Threadripper in about a month (Alienware had exclusive use for 2017). There are already small companies that will pre-build and warranty a computer with those specifications. Putting the hardware into the case should not take longer than 15-20 minutes. The lower cost of entry (for the computer hardware) and the upgradability completely negate the resale and total cost of ownership. You're also missing the fact that the build I posted is more powerful by a fair margin than the entry iMac Pro.
You're making blanket statements and resorting to personal attacks, again.
Bottom line is this...if true professionals wanted to fuck around building their own PC, and providing their own support then this would have been the norm far before Apple came long. Obviously, this is not the case. So you can go on your PCPartPicker site and build whatever the hell you want and it still isn't going to come close to what the Mac experience is. The end result is more than the sum of the parts that go inside the the computer (Mac or PC)...its far more than that. If this wasn't the case then Apple wouldn't be where it is today in the Professional field and they wouldn't continue to use their products.
I have a feeling that the iMac Pro will end up selling very well because it appeals to a very broad base. If you feel you need more than the iMac Pro, its coming. If maybe you can't wait, get the iMac Pro and when the new Mac Pro arrives, sell the iMac Pro for pretty much exactly what you paid for it, and buy the Mac Pro and whatever display you want. You really won't be out much in the end if anything.
Time is money for them and being their own IT Technician is a huge waste of their time. The build posted by @VRing is not going to make massive amounts of Professionals switch their all of their shit to Windows. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NGV9sJ
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.
Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.
What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.
...but again, this assumes your time has no value, that a single provider warranty has no value, and ignores the awesome longevity, resale value, and lower TCO of a Mac. A Mac’s value is more than a bunch of PC parts slapped into a case.
Why are you posting a build from June? The one I posted it from today.
Outside of the keyboard, mouse, OS and monitor, what major components am I missing?
There are also trade-offs for the warranty, while it's not through a single company, the duration on individual parts is often between 3 and 7 years.
Putting this together will take 15-20 minutes. One would end up saving more time because they'd have a faster machine.
You wouldn't need to worry about resale in the short term because you'd have a system with 64 PCIe lanes, 4 PCIe 3.0 x16 slots, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1 slot, 3 Ultra M.2 ports, 1 U.2 port, 8 SATA3 ports and 8 memory slots. It's easy to just upgrade.
The cooler is large, noisy and probably the H100 is the better option for the thread ripper. If it were my build I'd go with the Noctura and live with a bit less cooling to get a quieter solution. I guess going with a louder budget case on a $3K build is a personal decision and the PSU is solid but I tend to pay extra for quieter gear.
Get premium parts that are quiet and that $2000 budget drops quickly. Also, by discounting the monitor you really are stacking the deck as you can get crappy 4K displays for cheap. You like to hand wave that part but the iMac monitor is nice. It's not an Eizo but really nice...and better if you're video editing vs doing stuff for print.
/shrug
This isn't the PC I would build. And even if it was, it's not a 15 minute build. I'm pretty sure the last time I installed Windows it took about 15 minutes for a bare install. That's before all the updates that tends to happen. From a pure hardware build perspective, I guess you maybe could just slap all the parts together in 15-20 mins but I've spent that long being anal about wire management. That's assuming that the cooler isn't too big and hits something, everything goes on clean, you didn't lose the DOA lotto, etc. Then I tend to do some kind of burn in test because, yeah, all those warranties sound great until you have to deal with their customer support. Better to test everything to have anything that'll suffer from infant mortality die quickly within the return period.
Meh...building a white box is something an enthusiast might do. It's not something I'd bother with as a studio. At the end of it all with a monitor, better parts, etc you're saving maybe $500 and for me MacOS and my time is worth more than $500 over Windows and dealing with some idiot CSR for hours because I lost the DOA lotto.
I took a moment to add parts, there's a lot of tweaking one can do if you want different cooling or different part options. Even the pricing on a number of the parts is higher than it should be. The point being, in that ballpark you can get a more powerful computer with around $2000 to spend on other things (assuming you have $5000 to spend).
Yes, I was referring to the hardware when I said 15-20 minutes.
It's not hand waving, it's just showing that you're not tied down to a single display option. If you need to spend $1000+ on a display to pair with it, nothing is stopping you.There are lots of monitor options, I'm just not including it in the price because someone might find a better match for their needs. That could be a multi-monitor setup, a larger display, etc.
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.
Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.
What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.
Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.
What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.
The DIY build has a better CPU and GPU than the iMac Pro.
By the time the iMac Pro launches, there will be even more price drops and other new products only a month or so away (look to CES).
Folks like you are the problem. Talk much, but don't listen.
Build a PC using EXACTLY the same components as the iMac Pro. XEON CPU, 5K monitor, etc...
What part of "comparison" eludes you? It's like you're just egging to have your list ripped apart.
Threadripper 1950X and the Radeon Vega Frontier Edition are going to offer a considerable amount more performance than the entry iMac Pro. Why would you purposely choose weaker options that cost more?
Bottom line is this...if true professionals wanted to fuck around building their own PC, and providing their own support then this would have been the norm far before Apple came long. Obviously, this is not the case. So you can go on your PCPartPicker site and build whatever the hell you want and it still isn't going to come close to what the Mac experience is. The end result is more than the sum of the parts that go inside the the computer (Mac or PC)...its far more than that. If this wasn't the case then Apple wouldn't be where it is today in the Professional field and they wouldn't continue to use their products.
I have a feeling that the iMac Pro will end up selling very well because it appeals to a very broad base. If you feel you need more than the iMac Pro, its coming. If maybe you can't wait, get the iMac Pro and when the new Mac Pro arrives, sell the iMac Pro for pretty much exactly what you paid for it, and buy the Mac Pro and whatever display you want. You really won't be out much in the end if anything.
Time is money for them and being their own IT Technician is a huge waste of their time. The build posted by @VRing is not going to make massive amounts of Professionals switch their all of their shit to Windows. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NGV9sJ
I don't think that many pro's will build their own PC's, but they'll look closely at workstation from vendors like HP. They have done an excellent job in keep their systems up to date. And many of their models are far more capable than Mac Pros, and even the iMac Pro. Apple could learn a lot from HP, specially in the workstation market.
Bottom line is this...if true professionals wanted to fuck around building their own PC, and providing their own support then this would have been the norm far before Apple came long. Obviously, this is not the case. So you can go on your PCPartPicker site and build whatever the hell you want and it still isn't going to come close to what the Mac experience is. The end result is more than the sum of the parts that go inside the the computer (Mac or PC)...its far more than that. If this wasn't the case then Apple wouldn't be where it is today in the Professional field and they wouldn't continue to use their products.
I have a feeling that the iMac Pro will end up selling very well because it appeals to a very broad base. If you feel you need more than the iMac Pro, its coming. If maybe you can't wait, get the iMac Pro and when the new Mac Pro arrives, sell the iMac Pro for pretty much exactly what you paid for it, and buy the Mac Pro and whatever display you want. You really won't be out much in the end if anything.
Time is money for them and being their own IT Technician is a huge waste of their time. The build posted by @VRing is not going to make massive amounts of Professionals switch their all of their shit to Windows. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NGV9sJ
I don't think that many pro's will build their own PC's, but they'll look closely at workstation from vendors like HP. They have done an excellent in keep their systems up to date. And many of their modelos are far more capable than Mac Pros and the iMac Pro. Apple could learn a lot from HP, specially in the workstation market.
I agree, I am sure it is unpopular here but I have been thinking Apple should buy HP and do an off brand Mac, almost a clone of its own. Desktops, servers running OS X. I loved the Mac since 1987 when I purchased my first one, but I cannot find a desktop in their line up that meets my businesses needs. Its really starting to effect our work. I know the Mac isn't Apples main focus, they have created a a lot of other products I depend on... (Apple Pencil, I love that thing).
I love new iMac, its amazing how much they were Apple to accomplish in that form factor. It will meet many peoples needs. But I have been down the iMac road and purchased 12 at one point, 10 of them failed multiple times from heat. Having a monitor attached to that much hardware doesn't work for me. I know I have to wait until next year for another Mac Pro, and I will, but I would like to see Mac OS X on more things, I hate Windows and Apple is forcing me to use Windows more and more.
Thunderbolt 3 isn't nearly that important when you have a motherboard with that much expansion and 64 PCIe lanes.
2x 10 Gb/s Ethernet can be added for $175 extra in the PCIe x1 slot, which might not be needed.
The display is left out because it gives the option to choose a display or multiple displays that best suite your needs.
You seem to be shirking out of the responsibility of choosing a suitable display to make your system equivalent in the comparison with the iMac Pro.
If there was an iMac Pro in the workplace that needed to be replaced and you told the boss “I can get the equivalent for cheaper”, you’d be expected to get everything so that the equivalent system is immediately usable, not plonk a box on the desk and tell the boss “go choose a monitor you like”. Also as you are comparing, the monitor should be at least as good as the display on the iMac Pro, otherwise you’re not comparing like with like.
Another thing with the workplace scenario is that Thunderbolt 3 will be very useful for quickly detaching and attaching external drive arrays from an old faulty machine and to the new replacement. With PCI storage you’re limited to how many slots and the physical size within the computer’s case. There’s also the harassment of opening and unplugging the cards should anything go wrong with that computer. Thunderbolt 3 removes those limitations.
Thunderbolt 3 isn't nearly that important when you have a motherboard with that much expansion and 64 PCIe lanes.
2x 10 Gb/s Ethernet can be added for $175 extra in the PCIe x1 slot, which might not be needed.
The display is left out because it gives the option to choose a display or multiple displays that best suite your needs.
You seem to be shirking out of the responsibility of choosing a suitable display to make your system equivalent in the comparison with the iMac Pro.
If there was an iMac Pro in the workplace that needed to be replaced and you told the boss “I can get the equivalent for cheaper”, you’d be expected to get everything so that the equivalent system is immediately usable, not plonk a box on the desk and tell the boss “go choose a monitor you like”. Also as you are comparing, the monitor should be at least as good as the display on the iMac Pro, otherwise you’re not comparing like with like.
Another thing with the workplace scenario is that Thunderbolt 3 will be very useful for quickly detaching and attaching external drive arrays from an old faulty machine and to the new replacement. With PCI storage you’re limited to how many slots and the physical size within the computer’s case. There’s also the harassment of opening and unplugging the cards should anything go wrong with that computer. Thunderbolt 3 removes those limitations.
Exactly my point with Thunderbolt 3...its also extremely versatile where as PCIe isn't always.
When you add in a display with the same quality as the iMac/iMac Pro, you're back up to the price of the iMac Pro so did you really gain much in the end, other than possibly a faster processor? Sure, maybe you can upgrade it later on, but eventually its not going to make a difference. I'd like to know know many Professional actually get into their Mac now and upgrade it assuming they have one that makes this possible? I'm not talking about the Photographer who does this on the side...I'm talking about the person who is extremely serious and this is the day job, maybe even has their own company. Do you just buy what you need and need for the future and then when it doesn't suit your needs you just a new Mac, or do you upgrade it?
Anyone know the price breakdown for the major components of this? $5K is huge money, and critics will be all about the "Apple tax." It would help to know that the processor costs $x, the video card costs $x, the 1TB SSD costs $x, etc. Presumably Apple is earning a margin of near 30%, so I expect these components are surprisingly expensive (adding up to well over $3000).
Many have tried to build a similar PC and have failed to do a fair comparison. The graphics cards in them are brand new (I think the reason for the Dec availability) as well as the Xeon processors are also new. Those alone are quite expensive. Since people cannot get their hands on these new AMD Vega/Vega Pro graphics they're trying to compare a PC with dual 1080TI graphics cards and thats not really a fair comparison in the end. Same goes for the CPU...many are just comparing the highest end current Core i7 which again, isn't a fair comparison. Even then, they come to about $4500 if I remember correctly. Again, that doesn't count in the design costs, assembly, shipping, sales costs, support costs, etc.
Apple did one during the keynote with an HP Workstation and it was over $7,000. I think we'll have to wait a little bit when the parts become fully available for the public.
What many fail to factor in when calculating a cost is the R&D, engineering, making the software all work efficiently, the OS, and any apps included, assembly, shipping, retail, support costs, etc. These are all factored into the cost of any product, yet people just go on PC Part Picker and price out the parts and think thats a fair comparison when its not.
...but again, this assumes your time has no value, that a single provider warranty has no value, and ignores the awesome longevity, resale value, and lower TCO of a Mac. A Mac’s value is more than a bunch of PC parts slapped into a case.
Why are you posting a build from June? The one I posted it from today.
Outside of the keyboard, mouse, OS and monitor, what major components am I missing?
There are also trade-offs for the warranty, while it's not through a single company, the duration on individual parts is often between 3 and 7 years.
Putting this together will take 15-20 minutes. One would end up saving more time because they'd have a faster machine.
You wouldn't need to worry about resale in the short term because you'd have a system with 64 PCIe lanes, 4 PCIe 3.0 x16 slots, 1 PCIe 2.0 x1 slot, 3 Ultra M.2 ports, 1 U.2 port, 8 SATA3 ports and 8 memory slots. It's easy to just upgrade.
I posted it because it's an article from PC Gamer from June and it's 1) not missing major components like yours, and 2) good enough for the point.
I built gaming rigs for two decades for myself and others. So let me ask you:
- Why are you still pretending your list of missing components is the same as a complete Mac? - Why are you still ignoring the cost of your build time (15-20 minutes! good one bro...yes if only)? - Why are you still ignoring the cost of self-support? - Why are you still ignoring the hassle of multiple vendors who each point "that away" when you try to nail down a support issue? - Why are you still ignoring the longer resale value of a Mac? - Why are you still ignoring the TCO?
I'll tell you why -- because you're either intellectually dishonest, or delusional, or just the latest troll to pop by. Probably all three.
But we get it -- you're a gaming PC guy and you think build-yer-own systems are exactly the same as a Mac. Been there, dude. But one day when you're tired and bored with all the dicking around perhaps you'll reach the value proposition space where I am now. But until then, why bother wasting everybody's time coming to an Apple site to tell us you think DIY PCs are better than Macs? Who cares? What do you imagine we'll do with that rather useless information? Change our world views on computing platforms because some guy likes DIY PCs? No man.
It's from June, Threadripper and Vega hadn't even launched then. My posted build is not missing major components, like I said, you can select your own monitor or monitors to better suite your needs. If you can't build it yourself and need a singular warranty, Lenovo and HP will have systems with Threadripper in about a month (Alienware had exclusive use for 2017). There are already small companies that will pre-build and warranty a computer with those specifications. Putting the hardware into the case should not take longer than 15-20 minutes. The lower cost of entry (for the computer hardware) and the upgradability completely negate the resale and total cost of ownership. You're also missing the fact that the build I posted is more powerful by a fair margin than the entry iMac Pro.
You're making blanket statements and resorting to personal attacks, again.
We’ve already pointed out the shit you’ve excluded.
Which part of pointing out all the shit you ignored is a personal attack?
Here’s an example of your intellectual dishonesty: building the system in 15-20 minutes. I’ve built systems for decades and that’s simply bullshit. Even if you’re lucky enough to have a case and mobo and and power supply and video cards and components where everything physically goes in without hassles, you haven’t included time for troubleshooting and resolving unforeseen but seemingly inevitable issues. Just the other month I helped a friend perform the simple task of swapping his CPU heatsink & fan, and it turned out to be a major hassle in itself and took two trips to the store and a 1-2 hours mucking in the case. For a heatsink & fan. So get real.
The Mac Pro having this would be interesting, 100Tflops of AI training tensor processing is one thing that could significantly set it apart from the WX9100-ey chip in the iMac Pro
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I know Intel has a process rev giving even better thermals but that is a lot of compute to pack in a thin enclosure. If it overheats doing pro work people will be pissed.
2x 10 Gb/s Ethernet can be added for $175 extra in the PCIe x1 slot, which might not be needed.
The display is left out because it gives the option to choose a display or multiple displays that best suite your needs.
In 4 to 5 years from now the upgrade options will NOT be just as limited as the iMac Pro. That's astonishing to think you would even suggest that. I'm at a loss of words.
Threadripper 1950X offers some considerable performance as a CPU, but the GPU as well is the Radeon Vega Frontier Edition with 16 GB HBM2, that's a lot better than the Radeon Pro Vega 56 with 8 GB HBM2.
Building it might take less than 15 minutes if you know what you're doing. If you're really taking your time then maybe at most an hour. Setup is also really easy with new operating systems like Windows 10, it even finds and installs all of the drivers.
If you want a pre-built with a singular warranty/customer service, next month companies like Lenovo and HP will be able to sell Threadripper (Alienware had exclusivity till the end of 2017).
Turns out it's actually 10 years for the power supply. The liquid cooling is 5 years. The RAM is lifetime. The motherboard, GPU, SSD and CPU are 3 years.
I built gaming rigs for two decades for myself and others. So let me ask you:
- Why are you still pretending your list of missing components is the same as a complete Mac?
- Why are you still ignoring the cost of your build time (15-20 minutes! good one bro...yes if only)?
- Why are you still ignoring the cost of self-support?
- Why are you still ignoring the hassle of multiple vendors who each point "that away" when you try to nail down a support issue?
- Why are you still ignoring the longer resale value of a Mac?
- Why are you still ignoring the TCO?
I'll tell you why -- because you're either intellectually dishonest, or delusional, or just the latest troll to pop by. Probably all three.
But we get it -- you're a gaming PC guy and you think build-yer-own systems are exactly the same as a Mac. Been there, dude. But one day when you're tired and bored with all the dicking around perhaps you'll reach the value proposition space where I am now. But until then, why bother wasting everybody's time coming to an Apple site to tell us you think DIY PCs are better than Macs? Who cares? What do you imagine we'll do with that rather useless information? Change our world views on computing platforms because some guy likes DIY PCs? No man.
Get premium parts that are quiet and that $2000 budget drops quickly. Also, by discounting the monitor you really are stacking the deck as you can get crappy 4K displays for cheap. You like to hand wave that part but the iMac monitor is nice. It's not an Eizo but really nice...and better if you're video editing vs doing stuff for print.
/shrug
This isn't the PC I would build. And even if it was, it's not a 15 minute build. I'm pretty sure the last time I installed Windows it took about 15 minutes for a bare install. That's before all the updates that tends to happen. From a pure hardware build perspective, I guess you maybe could just slap all the parts together in 15-20 mins but I've spent that long being anal about wire management. That's assuming that the cooler isn't too big and hits something, everything goes on clean, you didn't lose the DOA lotto, etc. Then I tend to do some kind of burn in test because, yeah, all those warranties sound great until you have to deal with their customer support. Better to test everything to have anything that'll suffer from infant mortality die quickly within the return period.
Meh...building a white box is something an enthusiast might do. It's not something I'd bother with as a studio. At the end of it all with a monitor, better parts, etc you're saving maybe $500 and for me MacOS and my time is worth more than $500 over Windows and dealing with some idiot CSR for hours because I lost the DOA lotto.
You're making blanket statements and resorting to personal attacks, again.
I have a feeling that the iMac Pro will end up selling very well because it appeals to a very broad base. If you feel you need more than the iMac Pro, its coming. If maybe you can't wait, get the iMac Pro and when the new Mac Pro arrives, sell the iMac Pro for pretty much exactly what you paid for it, and buy the Mac Pro and whatever display you want. You really won't be out much in the end if anything.
Time is money for them and being their own IT Technician is a huge waste of their time. The build posted by @VRing is not going to make massive amounts of Professionals switch their all of their shit to Windows. https://pcpartpicker.com/list/NGV9sJ
Yes, I was referring to the hardware when I said 15-20 minutes.
It's not hand waving, it's just showing that you're not tied down to a single display option. If you need to spend $1000+ on a display to pair with it, nothing is stopping you.There are lots of monitor options, I'm just not including it in the price because someone might find a better match for their needs. That could be a multi-monitor setup, a larger display, etc.
I don't think that many pro's will build their own PC's, but they'll look closely at workstation from vendors like HP. They have done an excellent job in keep their systems up to date. And many of their models are far more capable than Mac Pros, and even the iMac Pro. Apple could learn a lot from HP, specially in the workstation market.
I love new iMac, its amazing how much they were Apple to accomplish in that form factor. It will meet many peoples needs. But I have been down the iMac road and purchased 12 at one point, 10 of them failed multiple times from heat. Having a monitor attached to that much hardware doesn't work for me. I know I have to wait until next year for another Mac Pro, and I will, but I would like to see Mac OS X on more things, I hate Windows and Apple is forcing me to use Windows more and more.
If you don’t like it then YOU don’t buy it.
You seem to be shirking out of the responsibility of choosing a suitable display to make your system equivalent in the comparison with the iMac Pro.
If there was an iMac Pro in the workplace that needed to be replaced and you told the boss “I can get the equivalent for cheaper”, you’d be expected to get everything so that the equivalent system is immediately usable, not plonk a box on the desk and tell the boss “go choose a monitor you like”. Also as you are comparing, the monitor should be at least as good as the display on the iMac Pro, otherwise you’re not comparing like with like.
Another thing with the workplace scenario is that Thunderbolt 3 will be very useful for quickly detaching and attaching external drive arrays from an old faulty machine and to the new replacement. With PCI storage you’re limited to how many slots and the physical size within the computer’s case. There’s also the harassment of opening and unplugging the cards should anything go wrong with that computer.
Thunderbolt 3 removes those limitations.
When you add in a display with the same quality as the iMac/iMac Pro, you're back up to the price of the iMac Pro so did you really gain much in the end, other than possibly a faster processor? Sure, maybe you can upgrade it later on, but eventually its not going to make a difference. I'd like to know know many Professional actually get into their Mac now and upgrade it assuming they have one that makes this possible? I'm not talking about the Photographer who does this on the side...I'm talking about the person who is extremely serious and this is the day job, maybe even has their own company. Do you just buy what you need and need for the future and then when it doesn't suit your needs you just a new Mac, or do you upgrade it?
Which part of pointing out all the shit you ignored is a personal attack?
Here’s an example of your intellectual dishonesty: building the system in 15-20 minutes. I’ve built systems for decades and that’s simply bullshit. Even if you’re lucky enough to have a case and mobo and and power supply and video cards and components where everything physically goes in without hassles, you haven’t included time for troubleshooting and resolving unforeseen but seemingly inevitable issues. Just the other month I helped a friend perform the simple task of swapping his CPU heatsink & fan, and it turned out to be a major hassle in itself and took two trips to the store and a 1-2 hours mucking in the case. For a heatsink & fan. So get real.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/12/nvidia-brings-its-monster-volta-gpu-to-a-graphics-cards-and-it-costs-3000/