Thank god! Hopefully this means less complaining from the hard core Mac side of the house, and stalls any further "Apple can't deliver" talk on the forums.
You and me both. That said, there are already posts here, in this thread that heavily lean in that direction.
I’m not a pro user. Just curious the reason for completely sealing the machine. Apple wants to force pro users to pay their upgrade pricing? If it’s an engineering reason then does that signal bad design descisions? As we saw with the trash can Mac Pro Apple sometimes gets it wrong. Why do you think Apple made this decision?
The only reason I can think of that they removed the RAM door is better airflow. It did show socketed RAM in the render video.
I too wish for a RAM door, ECC RAM is expensive, ECC RAM from Apple is tear inducing
Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM.
How would they give you access to RAM in this machine? It's not laptop-grade RAM (i.e.: small), it's not centered in chassis (i.e.: easier to make hatch that is hidden from view and without affecting the structural integrity of the casing), and it's split over two areas on the logic board. They'd need two separate bay doors which adds additional complexity and cost to an already expensive machine for the rare need to change the RAM with ease. It's simply not going to be top of Apple's priorities. If an AIO doesn't interest you then hold out for the new Mac Pro or go with a completely different vendor.
Thank god! Hopefully this means less complaining from the hard core Mac side of the house, and stalls any further "Apple can't deliver" talk on the forums.
You and me both. That said, there are already posts here, in this thread that heavily lean in that direction.
I’m not a pro user. Just curious the reason for completely sealing the machine. Apple wants to force pro users to pay their upgrade pricing? If it’s an engineering reason then does that signal bad design descisions? As we saw with the trash can Mac Pro Apple sometimes gets it wrong. Why do you think Apple made this decision?
I believe Apple knows what its doing here. They see a market and they go after it. I'm not a pro either, but I'm gonna assume a lot are going to not just buy the $4999 model, but rather spec it out as much as they can afford as from what I see, is what a typical Professional user will do. As I've said in the past, I think most Professionals don't care if they can get inside it. They just want to do work and not screw around with messing with the insides, being their own IT support, etc. They buy as much as they can afford, and use it until its no longer useful for their work and then they sell it for a high price (value of owning a Mac), and go get something newer.
The RAM slots are full sized RAM slots so if you take that along with the completely redesigned cooling system the RAM is not accessible from the same spot as the regular 27" iMac. it doesn't use SODIMMs like the regular iMac does. I think Apple would rather have a Mac that suits their needs rather than sit there and try and make it designed so the back cover(s) come off, etc, etc. This is what the Mac Pro is for.
For me personally it would be like buying a fully loaded Ford Shelby GT just to go to the grocery store. Not that I wouldn’t like that but for home use it would be a bit overkill. I’m hoping this machine finds a home with professionals, not the faux professionals who blather on here about ports and towers and such but real professionals who would put the machine to good use.
Professionals will not use Apple display - it is below quality and precision required by professional publishing and design. We run design shop.
So because it doesn't meet your specs it doesn't meet anyone's specs? Your design shop is the gold standard of design I guess. I must ask...what display do you use then? Why is it better than what is on the current 27" iMac, which is not the same as previous 27" iMacs.
Think it’s for coders. Too many of them at Apple, Google, Facebook etc. what you said about monitor is irrelevant to this group.
Owning a SW company, I can indeed confirm that coders just need a large monitor, not a super high quality one like designers. A 1 TB SSD disk is not really needed for coders (256 GB seems to be sufficient). As such the price of the machine is not compatible with my business.
I agree but for somewhat different reasons. Very few software developers really need this type of machine on their desk. Will every software developer want one? Hell yeah, as long as it's being purchased with other people's money (OPM). Many modern software development organizations who are doing agile, scaled agile, continuous integration, continuous delivery, etc., are spending the bulk of their capital today on blade servers to support privately managed clouds, massive virtualization, and automated/scripted build and test environments. Once you break the individual dev tasks into smaller chunks and offload brute force jobs to your servers the horsepower needed on the desktop doesn't require massive computing resources.
From Apple.com it appears that the keyboard is sans Touch Bar.
I like using TB, even though there’s plenty of room for improvement. IMO this is/was an optimal time to introduce Touch Bar to the desktop market, and not doing so means that Touch Bar is not the “better than touchscreens” solution as Apple first pitched.
Yep, it sure does look like the TouchBar was going down a dead-end street. Kinda of like the Trash Can Mac Pro. I bought a 2015 MBP this past summer because I don't like the new keyboards. You can still buy new mid 2015 MBPs and the Mac Book Airs. Says a lot about the continuing popularity of the old designs.
I would actually like a stand alone keyboard with both Function Keys and a Touchbar with TouchID, but don't want to be stuck on the new keyboards.
Thank god! Hopefully this means less complaining from the hard core Mac side of the house, and stalls any further "Apple can't deliver" talk on the forums.
You and me both. That said, there are already posts here, in this thread that heavily lean in that direction.
I’m not a pro user. Just curious the reason for completely sealing the machine. Apple wants to force pro users to pay their upgrade pricing? If it’s an engineering reason then does that signal bad design descisions? As we saw with the trash can Mac Pro Apple sometimes gets it wrong. Why do you think Apple made this decision?
In reality these machines will be low volume sales. Therefore Apple is breaking even on the development costs. One way to make up the money is to limit the upgradability and force users to buy RAM etc from Apple at purchase. Personally, I think flexibility in a high-end Mac is important. First it opens up the machine to more customers and therefore increases sales. Second, having a screen that is not ideal for graphics limits the utility of a machine. A headless machine is a better approach with the ability to upgrade RAM, SSD, and GPU. Selling an high end iMac will split sales for the MacPro when it eventually comes out.
"Pricing for optional upgrades to the machine is not yet available."
I used to jack G5 towers up to 10 grand or so before closing browser. Hopefully this machine will break that record and tide me over until the Mac Pro is released. It's been a long time ...
Yes, when you think the Mac II FX loaded was >$12,000 it's not all that bad. Personally I just can't pull the trigger on an iMac Pro, however powerful, until I know what the Mac Pro 2018 will offer. Not that I'm not tempted.
Apple hasn't said that they would release the new "Mac Pro" in 2018. They only said that it wouldn't be in 2017. It could be 2019 as they are going to have to rethink the design and it may be dependent on arrival of new technologies. If it comes it's going to be released in 2019 it will probably be demoed at WWDC. I think it will come in 2019 so that they can get lots of iMac Pro sales.
Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM.
Since it's probably expensive ECC ram, some users would try to throw in some cheap ram and complain to Apple when it has issues or doesn't work. Then they'll try to get a new iMac Pro with their warranty.
Think it’s for coders. Too many of them at Apple, Google, Facebook etc. what you said about monitor is irrelevant to this group.
Owning a SW company, I can indeed confirm that coders just need a large monitor, not a super high quality one like designers. A 1 TB SSD disk is not really needed for coders (256 GB seems to be sufficient). As such the price of the machine is not compatible with my business.
Programmers in Apple will be able to mothball their Hackintosh computers that were springing up now.
Edit: Hackintosh not Mackintosh (dang auto-correct)
It doesn't look like the A10 Chip with SIRI has shown up in the iMac Pro as was reported in a few news stories. Maybe that will happen next year in the regular iMac after the HomePod is released (with hopefully a newer, more powerful SIRI that runs most things locally).
I think a lot of my feelings about the all in one design depend on how much the RAM is. In reality the only reason to want slots is to avoid the staggering cost of Apple upgrades. The relatively low price makes me wonder if they might show some restraint on RAM costs. Maybe we can get a price break on 128GB? That would make a lot of people not care about this issue. The 10-core 128gb units seeded to developers make me wonder if that is the high-value for money configuration.
Now the AR and VR developers at Apple have something fast enough to develop on.
For me its a tad expensive, I can get 22k Geekbench on my iMac 5k and 32Gb RAM is enough.
I would like this machine as its nearly twice as fast with the 10 core, but guessing its going to be nearer £6,000.00 in UK pounds, so hard to justify.
For Swift developers that speed is worth it as the compiler ain't fast enough yet.
Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM.
I don't know what you do, but I'm a software dev in household brand fortune 100 & 500 companies. I have never, ever seen any of our IT department perform component upgrades on our workstations. Never. Machines are retired and swapped out only. Corporate workstations are not DIY tinkerer toys.
Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM.
Since it's probably expensive ECC ram, some users would try to throw in some cheap ram and complain to Apple when it has issues or doesn't work. Then they'll try to get a new iMac Pro with their warranty.
Doubtful as I suspect anyone buying this machine knows a thing or two about computers.
For me personally it would be like buying a fully loaded Ford Shelby GT just to go to the grocery store. Not that I wouldn’t like that but for home use it would be a bit overkill. I’m hoping this machine finds a home with professionals, not the faux professionals who blather on here about ports and towers and such but real professionals who would put the machine to good use.
Professionals will not use Apple display - it is below quality and precision required by professional publishing and design. We run design shop.
Well I wish you'd told me that when my company made shows for ESPN, we used all Apple 30" displays, darn it where were you?
Thank god! Hopefully this means less complaining from the hard core Mac side of the house, and stalls any further "Apple can't deliver" talk on the forums.
You and me both. That said, there are already posts here, in this thread that heavily lean in that direction.
I’m not a pro user. Just curious the reason for completely sealing the machine. Apple wants to force pro users to pay their upgrade pricing? If it’s an engineering reason then does that signal bad design descisions? As we saw with the trash can Mac Pro Apple sometimes gets it wrong. Why do you think Apple made this decision?
I'll never understand why you come from the position of assuming Apple is trying to screw you/people. It's paranoid and weird.
I come from the position of believing it's engineering-driven, as so many of Apple's past decisions have proven to be. Why would this be different? How do I know what the thermal design issues at play are?? That seems far more likely than "Apple is trying to screw you!"
Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM.
Since it's probably expensive ECC ram, some users would try to throw in some cheap ram and complain to Apple when it has issues or doesn't work. Then they'll try to get a new iMac Pro with their warranty.
Doubtful as I suspect anyone buying this machine knows a thing or two about computers.
And you would be wrong. As @vadimyuryev implies there are millions of users who claim to be professionals but who are, in fact, clueless.
Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM.
Am I the only person who buys machines fully loaded?
I think a friend of mine was fully loaded when he bought his Dell.
Comments
I too wish for a RAM door, ECC RAM is expensive, ECC RAM from Apple is tear inducing
The RAM slots are full sized RAM slots so if you take that along with the completely redesigned cooling system the RAM is not accessible from the same spot as the regular 27" iMac. it doesn't use SODIMMs like the regular iMac does. I think Apple would rather have a Mac that suits their needs rather than sit there and try and make it designed so the back cover(s) come off, etc, etc. This is what the Mac Pro is for.
So because it doesn't meet your specs it doesn't meet anyone's specs? Your design shop is the gold standard of design I guess. I must ask...what display do you use then? Why is it better than what is on the current 27" iMac, which is not the same as previous 27" iMacs.
I bought a 2015 MBP this past summer because I don't like the new keyboards. You can still buy new mid 2015 MBPs and the Mac Book Airs. Says a lot about the continuing popularity of the old designs.
I would actually like a stand alone keyboard with both Function Keys and a Touchbar with TouchID, but don't want to be stuck on the new keyboards.
Personally, I think flexibility in a high-end Mac is important. First it opens up the machine to more customers and therefore increases sales. Second, having a screen that is not ideal for graphics limits the utility of a machine. A headless machine is a better approach with the ability to upgrade RAM, SSD, and GPU. Selling an high end iMac will split sales for the MacPro when it eventually comes out.
Apple hasn't said that they would release the new "Mac Pro" in 2018. They only said that it wouldn't be in 2017. It could be 2019 as they are going to have to rethink the design and it may be dependent on arrival of new technologies. If it comes it's going to be released in 2019 it will probably be demoed at WWDC. I think it will come in 2019 so that they can get lots of iMac Pro sales.
Programmers in Apple will be able to mothball their Hackintosh computers that were springing up now.
Edit: Hackintosh not Mackintosh (dang auto-correct)
Maybe that will happen next year in the regular iMac after the HomePod is released (with hopefully a newer, more powerful SIRI that runs most things locally).
For me its a tad expensive, I can get 22k Geekbench on my iMac 5k and 32Gb RAM is enough.
I would like this machine as its nearly twice as fast with the 10 core, but guessing its going to be nearer £6,000.00 in UK pounds, so hard to justify.
I'll never understand why you come from the position of assuming Apple is trying to screw you/people. It's paranoid and weird.
I come from the position of believing it's engineering-driven, as so many of Apple's past decisions have proven to be. Why would this be different? How do I know what the thermal design issues at play are?? That seems far more likely than "Apple is trying to screw you!"
So weird.