There's no way Apple can ever sell many iPhones in India. Apple doesn't sell $100 smartphones. A used iPhone 4s could be too expensive for most Indian consumers. That's just the way it is. I'm sure Apple must realize this and is merely going through the motions so as not to insult India. India should have allowed Apple to sell refurbished iPhones to consumers but pride seems to be more important than common sense. Both Apple and Indian consumers lose out. Android smartphones have about 98% market share in India. Just unbelievable. That fact alone practically obliterates any chance of Apple gaining global smartphone market share percentage. The Android smartphone manufacturers are laughing hard at Apple in India.
India does not discriminate for or against apple. It does not allow any used or refurbished goods to be sold in the country (from any company), since such a regulation can and will be misused by the 'global' corporations to dump electronic junk in the country.
The restriction exists for the sake of the environment, and we don't see any reason why it should be changed.
Refurbished phones are sold all over the world. In fact refurbishing a phone utilises components that otherwise might go into landfill.
Are they really sold all over the world? I'm in Canada and can't seem to find a way to buy a refurb iPhone. Are they available in the USA?
Most Indians living in India get their iPhones from abroad, whether themselves or through a friend or family member who is travelling. India sales is not reflective of market share.
I find it funny how people who know nothing about India are commenting like rabid dogs and spewing venom.
India ALLOWS refurbished phones and electronics to be sold provided the they were originally sold in India as a new product. It only restricts import of used / refurbished products. Because yes we don't need the shit from west, we don't need your used phones. India is not your junkyard. No one is forcing Apple to sell in India.. they can get the hell out of here of they wish.
Spell Check before posting please.
*eye-roll* As far as I know it's typically hyphenated when used as a verb, "spell-check". Even when used as a noun there's no need to capitalize check.
FWIW I don't think a simple spell-check would have identified the relatively minor grammatical issues. His spelling appeared to be fine.
I find it funny how people who know nothing about India are commenting like rabid dogs and spewing venom.
India ALLOWS refurbished phones and electronics to be sold provided the they were originally sold in India as a new product. It only restricts import of used / refurbished products. Because yes we don't need the shit from west, we don't need your used phones. India is not your junkyard. No one is forcing Apple to sell in India.. they can get the hell out of here of they wish.
Spell Check before posting please.
I find nothing wrong with this person's spelling. Why the hell do you care so much about how someone spells something anyways on here? Seriously?
We (especially the USA) always think we know what is best for another country. We have ruined many a country for the sake of US corporate profits.
If India wants to have high import taxes and other regulations, that's up to them. We are all concerned about their access to an iPhone, but a majority of Indians have real issues and getting the latest iPhone isn't one of them.
It is hard first but Apple or otherwise, companies have to understand deeply local social fabric and how to push(emotional marketing) products through right channels(like Pepsi does) and incentives(like monthly installments). India is certainly tough do business but not impossible. Find the right segments to sell high end products and than work your way down with locally refurbished products. Many Indians who live overseas but have family ties with India buy and gift Apple products when travel to visit back. Same true for IT Indians picks up Apple products overseas. Android has larger market in India because they build larger screen phones with inferior internals and not good built quality but sell at cheap price. Fits well for mentality of large poor population countries.
There's no way Apple can ever sell many iPhones in India. Apple doesn't sell $100 smartphones. A used iPhone 4s could be too expensive for most Indian consumers. That's just the way it is. I'm sure Apple must realize this and is merely going through the motions so as not to insult India. India should have allowed Apple to sell refurbished iPhones to consumers but pride seems to be more important than common sense. Both Apple and Indian consumers lose out. Android smartphones have about 98% market share in India. Just unbelievable. That fact alone practically obliterates any chance of Apple gaining global smartphone market share percentage. The Android smartphone manufacturers are laughing hard at Apple in India.
India does not discriminate for or against apple. It does not allow any used or refurbished goods to be sold in the country (from any company), since such a regulation can and will be misused by the 'global' corporations to dump electronic junk in the country.
The restriction exists for the sake of the environment, and we don't see any reason why it should be changed.
Refurbishing phones is the environmentally friendly practice. Opposite of India’s policy. “Reduce. Re-use. Recycle.” Ever heard of it?
Think you should read carefully before you comment. I used the word "misuse". Misuse in this case is importing junk under the title of 'refurb'. For customs or officials it would be indistinguishable. Using refurbished electronics is environmentally friendly, sending refurbed junk to other countries is not environmentally friendly for that country.
And btw this kind of sending junk from developed countries to developing countries used to be quite common. And the number of people who have died of asbestos (old ships) and mercury (old electronics) poisoning in developing countries due to imported junk is staggering. These regulations are in place due to past experience, and has nothing to do with apple.
Also, restrictions on used goods is quite common across the world and apple seems to be fine with those countries.
India does not discriminate for or against apple. It does not allow any used or refurbished goods to be sold in the country (from any company), since such a regulation can and will be misused by the 'global' corporations to dump electronic junk in the country.
The restriction exists for the sake of the environment, and we don't see any reason why it should be changed.
Do you believe this yourself? Is it better for the environment to give a piece of electronics a second life or to discard it and manufacture a new one? If there is consumer-demand for refurbished devices at considerable prices they're definitely *not* electronic junk.
Ofcourse. It is not a matter of faith, it is fact. Because it is expensive to handle e-waste in the west and many small European countries have run out of landfills, a host of dubious organisations have come up that try to ship e-waste to countries like india where unregulated operations without safety measure are run. Results in a lot of lead/mercury poisoning. This happens despite all of it being illegal. Thankfully they have really cracked down on this stuff since 2010, and so it is highly contained.
Here's an article from 2004 that gives an idea of the situation before:
Apple has higher margins on their products than any other manufacturer. I would like to see Apple reduce their margins in India, so that they can be more competitive. If they did that, it would be good for Apple and for India. Apple would get more market share, and India would get more jobs (i.e., Apple Stores, sales & support). And if Apple can get more iOS and MacOS development centers in India, that would benefit both even more.
There's no way Apple can ever sell many iPhones in India. Apple doesn't sell $100 smartphones. A used iPhone 4s could be too expensive for most Indian consumers. That's just the way it is. I'm sure Apple must realize this and is merely going through the motions so as not to insult India. India should have allowed Apple to sell refurbished iPhones to consumers but pride seems to be more important than common sense. Both Apple and Indian consumers lose out. Android smartphones have about 98% market share in India. Just unbelievable. That fact alone practically obliterates any chance of Apple gaining global smartphone market share percentage. The Android smartphone manufacturers are laughing hard at Apple in India.
India does not discriminate for or against apple. It does not allow any used or refurbished goods to be sold in the country (from any company), since such a regulation can and will be misused by the 'global' corporations to dump electronic junk in the country.
The restriction exists for the sake of the environment, and we don't see any reason why it should be changed.
A valid concern, but India is currently neck-deep in toxic materials and chemicals which leech into the ground and water supply.
lorin schultz said: Are they really sold all over the world? I'm in Canada and can't seem to find a way to buy a refurb iPhone. Are they available in the USA?
In N.A. the properly termed refurbished phones (recent returns, repaired defectives) are probably used in the service stream for replacement units or sold on the US refurb site. I haven't seem them on the Apple Canada Refurbished & Clearancesection like other devices.
Apple doesn't trade-in phones themselves. That's up to their partner Brightstar or Apple's independent reseller network (hi there!)
Told you guys before. India is not like China. The Chinese can sell a kidney for an iPhone while the Indian wouldn’t even give up a Masala for it...bottom line: Indians are cheap, man...lol no offense!
So you think selling a Kidney for an iPhone is Awesome ?? that's moronic. Indians are smart and do not "waste" money where is not needed. Increase your knowledge about India. You are such an asshole.
Told you guys before. India is not like China. The Chinese can sell a kidney for an iPhone while the Indian wouldn’t even give up a Masala for it...bottom line: Indians are cheap, man...lol no offense!
So you think selling a Kidney for an iPhone is Awesome ?? that's moronic. Indians are smart and do not "waste" money where is not needed. Increase your knowledge about India. You are such an asshole.
There's no way Apple can ever sell many iPhones in India. Apple doesn't sell $100 smartphones. A used iPhone 4s could be too expensive for most Indian consumers. That's just the way it is. I'm sure Apple must realize this and is merely going through the motions so as not to insult India. India should have allowed Apple to sell refurbished iPhones to consumers but pride seems to be more important than common sense. Both Apple and Indian consumers lose out. Android smartphones have about 98% market share in India. Just unbelievable. That fact alone practically obliterates any chance of Apple gaining global smartphone market share percentage. The Android smartphone manufacturers are laughing hard at Apple in India.
There are ample iPhone in India , brought in by traveling IT folks around the globe, and people can buy them used on Quikr and OLX, but the government policy to allow or not allow iPhone to be sold as Refurb is their decision. Think about all the Damn old Android phones also coming from all over the world to be sold as Refurb with old OS versions that are completely hackable OTA .. How much risk that puts on the citizens and their digital life. Especially government's push for digital transactions etc.
If you are an Indian and making this comment, then you should be ashamed. IF you are not an Indian, then Shut up and learn more.
I hope Apple understand this, I believe they do and are working on a bigger plan and it will work out. We also know Apple does not care about market share they only sell their products at one price and if you want it you have to pay the price.
I know there are lots of people who visit this site who have an India background or are from India. One things I can said about them their national pride is as great as the US if not more and because of this they think India is going to be the next great economic super power. Their belief comes from having 1.3B people which feeds into the more is always better, they have highest market share of people in the world so they think they will be greater than the US or China.
However, every India i have meet or talked to seem to miss the obvious, most of the country is mess and lack the money to do anything different. This publish report highlights all the things going on in India. The most interesting things about India which I learn from this report most everyone rather spend money on a wedding than luxury items as an example if success. Everything I have heard from people on here and other places see India in a completely different light than this report. This report explains what is happening in India and why Apple will not see the same success they see in China and the US.
India has a long upward battle, they have lots of infrastructure issues, they have huge income disparity issues. The people making most of the money work for the Government, it is the single largest employer. Imagine if people who worked in the US government made more than people in high tech. As % of income India spend far more on food than anything else, they are still struggling to feed themselves. If someone in India wants a data plan on their phone they have to give up eating something.
I find it funny how people who know nothing about India are commenting like rabid dogs and spewing venom.
India ALLOWS refurbished phones and electronics to be sold provided the they were originally sold in India as a new product. It only restricts import of used / refurbished products. Because yes we don't need the shit from west, we don't need your used phones. India is not your junkyard. No one is forcing Apple to sell in India.. they can get the hell out of here of they wish.
India has vast potential, but has always been held back by disastrous economic policies. That China, an authoritarian society has been able to grow while India has not, despite its natural riches and otherwise talented human resources speaks volumes. This tax is just another economic own goal they will tie themselves up in knots justifying, as you can see in this thread. Diversion of android phones into local assembly factories reduces product quality, and the products get sold at a loss. Workers are diverted to these factories when they should be in unique factories building india’s unique value add to exports to turn India into an economic powerhouse. That is what it should be concentrating on rather than wasting time trying to do lame import replacement. The market won’t get the attention from Apple it deserves. Apple’s share of domestic sales is minuscule, it isn’t worth it trying to do anything about it, so the tax just puts the best smartphone and ecosystem further out of consumers’ and actually quite importantly, small businesses’ reach. Meanwhile the wealthy in India just buy an iPhone when OS and bring extras back for their friends and family.
India does not discriminate for or against apple. It does not allow any used or refurbished goods to be sold in the country (from any company), since such a regulation can and will be misused by the 'global' corporations to dump electronic junk in the country.
The restriction exists for the sake of the environment, and we don't see any reason why it should be changed.
Do you believe this yourself? Is it better for the environment to give a piece of electronics a second life or to discard it and manufacture a new one? If there is consumer-demand for refurbished devices at considerable prices they're definitely *not* electronic junk.
Ofcourse. It is not a matter of faith, it is fact. Because it is expensive to handle e-waste in the west and many small European countries have run out of landfills, a host of dubious organisations have come up that try to ship e-waste to countries like india where unregulated operations without safety measure are run. Results in a lot of lead/mercury poisoning. This happens despite all of it being illegal. Thankfully they have really cracked down on this stuff since 2010, and so it is highly contained.
Here's an article from 2004 that gives an idea of the situation before:
Now imagine if they leave a loophole like the one that apple is asking for. It is not going to happen.
India is smart to have these restriction. Apple makes such a big deal of being progressive (gay and transgender rights, supporting illegal aliens, the environment) but the buck trumps all.
If wages for manufacturing and assembling workers in India is lower than China then it probably makes sense for Apple to diversify its partner factories geographically in India.
India has the opportunity to grow there economy and avoid some of China’s mistakes.
if Apple didn't get 99% of its manufacturing in China the Chinese would probably be just as tough tariff and tax wise as the Indians.
India does not discriminate for or against apple. It does not allow any used or refurbished goods to be sold in the country (from any company), since such a regulation can and will be misused by the 'global' corporations to dump electronic junk in the country.
The restriction exists for the sake of the environment, and we don't see any reason why it should be changed.
Do you believe this yourself? Is it better for the environment to give a piece of electronics a second life or to discard it and manufacture a new one? If there is consumer-demand for refurbished devices at considerable prices they're definitely *not* electronic junk.
Ofcourse. It is not a matter of faith, it is fact. Because it is expensive to handle e-waste in the west and many small European countries have run out of landfills, a host of dubious organisations have come up that try to ship e-waste to countries like india where unregulated operations without safety measure are run. Results in a lot of lead/mercury poisoning. This happens despite all of it being illegal. Thankfully they have really cracked down on this stuff since 2010, and so it is highly contained.
Here's an article from 2004 that gives an idea of the situation before:
Now imagine if they leave a loophole like the one that apple is asking for. It is not going to happen.
Lets all get this straight, it was not like US companies just back up dump truck in india and started to offload this stuff in India. Some Indian company along with its government allowed this to happen. I suspect some Indian entrepreneur thought they were going to cash in on recycling electronic and recover the gold and silver. Then realize India does not have the technology to recover the gold or found out real fast it was too costly. Before they new it the all stack up and they did not know what to do with. I also notice they were attempting to recycle cargo ships and they did not work out real well since no one would buy the poor quality steel India product. China steel is better grade and is mostly made from new iron ore.
Typical, blame everyone else for the short coming of India's government. There is so much corruption in India, that is why government workers make more than most people in the country.
India does not discriminate for or against apple. It does not allow any used or refurbished goods to be sold in the country (from any company), since such a regulation can and will be misused by the 'global' corporations to dump electronic junk in the country.
The restriction exists for the sake of the environment, and we don't see any reason why it should be changed.
Do you believe this yourself? Is it better for the environment to give a piece of electronics a second life or to discard it and manufacture a new one? If there is consumer-demand for refurbished devices at considerable prices they're definitely *not* electronic junk.
Ofcourse. It is not a matter of faith, it is fact. Because it is expensive to handle e-waste in the west and many small European countries have run out of landfills, a host of dubious organisations have come up that try to ship e-waste to countries like india where unregulated operations without safety measure are run. Results in a lot of lead/mercury poisoning. This happens despite all of it being illegal. Thankfully they have really cracked down on this stuff since 2010, and so it is highly contained.
Here's an article from 2004 that gives an idea of the situation before:
Now imagine if they leave a loophole like the one that apple is asking for. It is not going to happen.
Lets all get this straight, it was not like US companies just back up dump truck in india and started to offload this stuff in India. Some Indian company along with its government allowed this to happen. I suspect some Indian entrepreneur thought they were going to cash in on recycling electronic and recover the gold and silver. Then realize India does not have the technology to recover the gold or found out real fast it was too costly. Before they new it the all stack up and they did not know what to do with. I also notice they were attempting to recycle cargo ships and they did not work out real well since no one would buy the poor quality steel India product. China steel is better grade and is mostly made from new iron ore.
Typical, blame everyone else for the short coming of India's government. There is so much corruption in India, that is why government workers make more than most people in the country.
I really wanted to provide a logical reply, but your post is so not going anywhere, I don't even know what to say.
So, i'll stick to one point. Ofcourse there are indian business people culpable in sending e-waste over to india. It is a low-cost way of obtaining over 100+ metals that go into electronics. Business folk don't belong to a nation, they are only interested in profits. But, that doesn't mean the people of india or the government want it that way. They do the best they can to limit the situation, just like any other country. If the people or government were capable of stamping these things out a 100% you wouldn't have poverty, mafia, drugs or any other ills anywhere in the world including china and US. China has an equally bad e-waste problem BTW.
And regarding the ships / steel random digression in your post - you should check out which is the largest steel company in the world today - ArcellorMittal owned by Sunil Mittal is three times the second largest company china state-owned Baosteel. I rest my case.
Comments
https://www.apple.com/shop/browse/home/specialdeals/iphone
Only the 6s there and not that cheap
FWIW I don't think a simple spell-check would have identified the relatively minor grammatical issues. His spelling appeared to be fine.
If India wants to have high import taxes and other regulations, that's up to them. We are all concerned about their access to an iPhone, but a majority of Indians have real issues and getting the latest iPhone isn't one of them.
And btw this kind of sending junk from developed countries to developing countries used to be quite common. And the number of people who have died of asbestos (old ships) and mercury (old electronics) poisoning in developing countries due to imported junk is staggering. These regulations are in place due to past experience, and has nothing to do with apple.
Also, restrictions on used goods is quite common across the world and apple seems to be fine with those countries.
Here's an article from 2004 that gives an idea of the situation before:
https://www.outlookindia.com/magazine/story/india-use-me/222679
This is an article from last year, outlining the situation despite the crackdown.
http://www.business-standard.com/content/b2b-manufacturing-industry/us-china-account-for-70-of-india-s-e-waste-imports-116030400460_1.html
Now imagine if they leave a loophole like the one that apple is asking for. It is not going to happen.
Apple doesn't trade-in phones themselves. That's up to their partner Brightstar or Apple's independent reseller network (hi there!)
If you are an Indian and making this comment, then you should be ashamed. IF you are not an Indian, then Shut up and learn more.
I hope Apple understand this, I believe they do and are working on a bigger plan and it will work out. We also know Apple does not care about market share they only sell their products at one price and if you want it you have to pay the price.
I know there are lots of people who visit this site who have an India background or are from India. One things I can said about them their national pride is as great as the US if not more and because of this they think India is going to be the next great economic super power. Their belief comes from having 1.3B people which feeds into the more is always better, they have highest market share of people in the world so they think they will be greater than the US or China.
However, every India i have meet or talked to seem to miss the obvious, most of the country is mess and lack the money to do anything different. This publish report highlights all the things going on in India. The most interesting things about India which I learn from this report most everyone rather spend money on a wedding than luxury items as an example if success. Everything I have heard from people on here and other places see India in a completely different light than this report. This report explains what is happening in India and why Apple will not see the same success they see in China and the US.
http://www.goldmansachs.com/our-thinking/pages/macroeconomic-insights-folder/rise-of-the-india-consumer/report.pdf
India has a long upward battle, they have lots of infrastructure issues, they have huge income disparity issues. The people making most of the money work for the Government, it is the single largest employer. Imagine if people who worked in the US government made more than people in high tech. As % of income India spend far more on food than anything else, they are still struggling to feed themselves. If someone in India wants a data plan on their phone they have to give up eating something.
That China, an authoritarian society has been able to grow while India has not, despite its natural riches and otherwise talented human resources speaks volumes.
This tax is just another economic own goal they will tie themselves up in knots justifying, as you can see in this thread. Diversion of android phones into local assembly factories reduces product quality, and the products get sold at a loss. Workers are diverted to these factories when they should be in unique factories building india’s unique value add to exports to turn India into an economic powerhouse. That is what it should be concentrating on rather than wasting time trying to do lame import replacement.
The market won’t get the attention from Apple it deserves. Apple’s share of domestic sales is minuscule, it isn’t worth it trying to do anything about it, so the tax just puts the best smartphone and ecosystem further out of consumers’ and actually quite importantly, small businesses’ reach.
Meanwhile the wealthy in India just buy an iPhone when OS and bring extras back for their friends and family.
If wages for manufacturing and assembling workers in India is lower than China then it probably makes sense for Apple to diversify its partner factories geographically in India.
India has the opportunity to grow there economy and avoid some of China’s mistakes.
if Apple didn't get 99% of its manufacturing in China the Chinese would probably be just as tough tariff and tax wise as the Indians.
Lets all get this straight, it was not like US companies just back up dump truck in india and started to offload this stuff in India. Some Indian company along with its government allowed this to happen. I suspect some Indian entrepreneur thought they were going to cash in on recycling electronic and recover the gold and silver. Then realize India does not have the technology to recover the gold or found out real fast it was too costly. Before they new it the all stack up and they did not know what to do with. I also notice they were attempting to recycle cargo ships and they did not work out real well since no one would buy the poor quality steel India product. China steel is better grade and is mostly made from new iron ore.
Typical, blame everyone else for the short coming of India's government. There is so much corruption in India, that is why government workers make more than most people in the country.
So, i'll stick to one point. Ofcourse there are indian business people culpable in sending e-waste over to india. It is a low-cost way of obtaining over 100+ metals that go into electronics. Business folk don't belong to a nation, they are only interested in profits. But, that doesn't mean the people of india or the government want it that way. They do the best they can to limit the situation, just like any other country. If the people or government were capable of stamping these things out a 100% you wouldn't have poverty, mafia, drugs or any other ills anywhere in the world including china and US. China has an equally bad e-waste problem BTW.
And regarding the ships / steel random digression in your post - you should check out which is the largest steel company in the world today - ArcellorMittal owned by Sunil Mittal is three times the second largest company china state-owned Baosteel. I rest my case.