Apple's project 'Marzipan' will let iOS apps run on the Mac in 2018 - report

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 71
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,683member
    To be honest, I can't think of any iOS App I would use on my Mac except maybe for Infinite Flight. The Mac App store is already pretty damn good and offers a lot, especially for my needs. 
    I spend most of my day on my Mac and there are a few apps I'd be happy to have on the Mac so I don't have to pick up the phone. Not many but a few. As to having a mouse work on an iPad - I have no idea why people are so against this. It would immediately make the iPad so much more efficient for entering data. It would turn the iPad into a laptop and what on earth is wrong with that? It is not as if it would be obligatory. When Steve Jobs famously elevated 'the finger' to the perfect input device he was selling a relatively new concept. That was great salesmanship but not an indictment of the mouse as oftentimes the better input device. Which is better for Numbers or Excel? Which is better for editing text? And with the respect to the Pencil that just proves that the finger is not always the best.

    edited December 2017 ben20GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 42 of 71
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 17,780member
    danv2 said:
    I have to be honest, I kind of want to vomit now. This only underscores them backtracking on years, and years, and years, of research and design. The touch screen is not the desktop and vice versa. This is the Red Wedding of macOS essentially to me. Making these super universal apps will destroy ecosystems, and make people incredibly frustrated. It did not work for Microsoft, and it did not work for Google, why in the hell is Apple doing this? Who did they hire? I'm betting some Google or Redmond recruit has gotten his claws in deep enough to poison the well and destroy a good thing. I can be up front in saying Jobs is rolling around in his grave at the moment, and yeah, I take that and run with it because its the truth. And yeah, Jobs is dead, but this is ripping up the playbook and crapping on the idea of a tablet OS and a desktop OS. They are separate, they are different. Programmers and customers alike do not like to conflate them. Mark my words though: 2018 Apple will require you to build a Mac OS app as well, and then state you can't put it on the App Store unless you have a version of both. The end result: anarchy and hell.

    Jesus dude.  Overreact much?  You're flipping out over some supposed change pf philosophy to the OS, when no such change is planned.  You're jumping off a bridge because you think Apple will next "require" Mac OS apps to get approved on the iOS App store.  In addition to the fact that this isn't happening, why would that even make sense?  If the Mac can run iOS apps, why would Apple require a Mac version?  This is about letting someone fire up Boom Beach on their Mac instead of their iPad once in a while.  It's not about conflating versions of Word.  The native Mac apps are still going to be more complete.  

    Relax.  
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 43 of 71
    danv2 said:
    I have to be honest, I kind of want to vomit now. This only underscores them backtracking on years, and years, and years, of research and design. The touch screen is not the desktop and vice versa. This is the Red Wedding of macOS essentially to me. Making these super universal apps will destroy ecosystems, and make people incredibly frustrated. It did not work for Microsoft, and it did not work for Google, why in the hell is Apple doing this? Who did they hire? I'm betting some Google or Redmond recruit has gotten his claws in deep enough to poison the well and destroy a good thing. I can be up front in saying Jobs is rolling around in his grave at the moment, and yeah, I take that and run with it because its the truth. And yeah, Jobs is dead, but this is ripping up the playbook and crapping on the idea of a tablet OS and a desktop OS. They are separate, they are different. Programmers and customers alike do not like to conflate them. Mark my words though: 2018 Apple will require you to build a Mac OS app as well, and then state you can't put it on the App Store unless you have a version of both. The end result: anarchy and hell.
    Save the vomit. Today a developer can make a single iOS app that will run on iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, and Apple Watch. iPhone/iPad are mostly the same GUI, but TV and Watch have completely different GUIs. The change will allow a developer to add one more target, the Mac, which has its own GUI.
    StrangeDaysrandominternetpersonjasenj1mattinoz
  • Reply 44 of 71
    The titles of the article (both here and on Bloomberg) are misleading.

    Bloomberg: “Apple Plans Combined iPhone, iPad and Mac Apps to Create One User Experience”

     reality: “Apple Plans Combined iPhone, iPad and Mac SDKs to Create One Developer Experience”
    edited December 2017 StrangeDaysrandominternetpersonjasenj1roundaboutnowdysamoriaGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 45 of 71
    danv2 said:
    danv2 said:
    I have to be honest, I kind of want to vomit now. This only underscores them backtracking on years, and years, and years, of research and design. The touch screen is not the desktop and vice versa. This is the Red Wedding of macOS essentially to me. Making these super universal apps will destroy ecosystems, and make people incredibly frustrated. It did not work for Microsoft, and it did not work for Google, why in the hell is Apple doing this? Who did they hire? I'm betting some Google or Redmond recruit has gotten his claws in deep enough to poison the well and destroy a good thing. I can be up front in saying Jobs is rolling around in his grave at the moment, and yeah, I take that and run with it because its the truth. And yeah, Jobs is dead, but this is ripping up the playbook and crapping on the idea of a tablet OS and a desktop OS. They are separate, they are different. Programmers and customers alike do not like to conflate them. Mark my words though: 2018 Apple will require you to build a Mac OS app as well, and then state you can't put it on the App Store unless you have a version of both. The end result: anarchy and hell.
    It’s a rumor, dude. 

    And no, I think your 2018 prediction is just panicked nonsense. They’re not going to force iOS devs to produce macOS versions anymore than they force iOS devs to make iPad or tvOS versions today. 
    I wanna be wrong about this, trust me, I hope I am entirely and superbly wrong. If I end up wrong, then I'll be incredibly happy. 
    This is all about making it easy for an iOS developer (we have LOTS of those) to also be a Mac developer (we have LESS of those), minimizing the effort. One app, one set of files, that can build and look right on Mac and all the other devices.
    dysamoriamattinoz
  • Reply 46 of 71
    Flytrap said:
    danv2 said:
    I have to be honest, I kind of want to vomit now. This only underscores them backtracking on years, and years, and years, of research and design. The touch screen is not the desktop and vice versa...  ...It did not work for Microsoft, and it did not work for Google, why in the hell is Apple doing this? ...But this is ripping up the playbook and crapping on the idea of a tablet OS and a desktop OS. They are separate....

    I think that you need to reread the article... particularly this part:
    With the expected upcoming changes, developers will be able to create a single application that can work with either a touchscreen, a mouse, or a trackpad.
    I do not think that there is any backtracking of the original stance from the Jobsian days. It is just a common build with all the binaries for touch based wearable watch, mobile phone and tablet; pointer based devices like the AppleTV; mouse and trackpad based desktops and laptop portables; and soon (I hope) voice based digital assistants like the home pod.  These will always remain separate targets, but the developers toolchain will be significantly simplified.  Developers already separate the user interface, from the business logic from the data from the communication protocols between the different parts.... all that this adds is an additional interface view (pretty easy for apps that already support a light mobile interface with a heavy desktop browser view) - most of the code, which is sitting in the cloud, anyway, remains the same

    Apple are the only one who can pull this off, because of the their control of all the target platforms - of course it does not work well when developers also want to target Windows, Chrome, Android etc. desktop, browser and mobile operating systems.

    In my experience, the reason why developers have been slow to embrace the Mac AppStore has been because there are many toolchains that target multiple mobile operating systems, but few that target multiple desktop operating systems as effectively and economically as targeting the desktop browser has been. So I doubt that this strategy will change much... unless, Apple creates a compelling case for developers to build apps that interact directly with their desktop counterparts without the round trip via the cloud.
    Agreed.  This is not about bringing a mouse / trackpad to the iPad or a touch-screen to the Mac. It's about code convergence at the architectural layer => a single universal app that is optimized to run on iPhone, iPad, Mac.  I for one am excited about this and think it's long overdue.
    tmaymacky the macky
  • Reply 47 of 71
    bhupesh said:
    I don't see Apple allowing touch UI Apps on the Mac. I think what is more likely is Apple creating tools to help developers create universal Apps. The Apps would still be required to have the appropriate UI for each platform. As a developer, I would seriously consider take advantage of this. I could have one App that runs on all of Apple's major platforms.
    Bingo!
    StrangeDaysmacky the macky
  • Reply 48 of 71
    Actually to the naysayers can I just say this ability will finally signify an end to me having to use Windows which would be the best thing.

    I have a couple of apps that have an iOS version and a Windows Store version but no Mac version. Sometimes I need the ease that a desktop has before using the iOS apps. With this option I can use an iOS app with a mouse for extra ease and precision.

    I will be able to stop using Parallels and Windows forever.
  • Reply 49 of 71
    mcdavemcdave Posts: 1,856member
    danv2 said:
    danv2 said:
    I have to be honest, I kind of want to vomit now. This only underscores them backtracking on years, and years, and years, of research and design. The touch screen is not the desktop and vice versa. This is the Red Wedding of macOS essentially to me. Making these super universal apps will destroy ecosystems, and make people incredibly frustrated. It did not work for Microsoft, and it did not work for Google, why in the hell is Apple doing this? Who did they hire? I'm betting some Google or Redmond recruit has gotten his claws in deep enough to poison the well and destroy a good thing. I can be up front in saying Jobs is rolling around in his grave at the moment, and yeah, I take that and run with it because its the truth. And yeah, Jobs is dead, but this is ripping up the playbook and crapping on the idea of a tablet OS and a desktop OS. They are separate, they are different. Programmers and customers alike do not like to conflate them. Mark my words though: 2018 Apple will require you to build a Mac OS app as well, and then state you can't put it on the App Store unless you have a version of both. The end result: anarchy and hell.
    It’s a rumor, dude. 

    And no, I think your 2018 prediction is just panicked nonsense. They’re not going to force iOS devs to produce macOS versions anymore than they force iOS devs to make iPad or tvOS versions today. 
    I wanna be wrong about this, trust me, I hope I am entirely and superbly wrong. If I end up wrong, then I'll be incredibly happy. 
    Don’t worry, you’re reading this wrong. Is not about converged devices/UIs, Apple have been breaking the PC apart since iPod.

    Its about converging software projects.  The truth, under the UI, iOS is MacOS. Most non-UI frameworks are now on a par but at the moment I have to designate a different target OS.  This means that I don’t have to copy model objects from my MacOS to iOS projects but just add two UIs; one GUI, one Touch.

    This way we get more Mac Apps whilst retaining device-appropriate  UI (not like Windows).  Of course it also means ARM Macs are more viable.
    asdasdjasenj1dysamoriamattinoz
  • Reply 50 of 71
    MacRumors has a different take on this report — “Apple Plans to Let Developers Release Universal Apps That Work Across iPhone, iPad, and Mac”

    https://www.macrumors.com/2017/12/20/apple-plans-universal-ios-mac-apps/

    ...they frame the report around being about universal app releases, not running iOS apps on macOS. This seems more likely for the dev reasons discussed earlier here.
    edited December 2017 dysamoria
  • Reply 51 of 71
    entropysentropys Posts: 3,228member
    It seems the idea is the underlying core code would be universal and you just Target different product classes (iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Mac) for app thinning purposes (you won’t need Mac stuff on an iPhone) and especially to get the relevant GUI.

    It would make it easier for iOS developers to create a Mac version of their software, and AppStore unity, which would be good for the consumer as you could buy once run everywhere, and cynically for Apple it is more likely to get its cut for Mac software sales. You would get more iOS based games on the Mac too.

    This would still allow a developer to target only Macs though for a program that needs a lot of grunt, and legacy Mac apps would still work outside this framework unless Apple chose to close off that path.

    Downside is that in the desire to make apps universal, Mac apps *could* end up less fully functioned and less powerful. See Pages et al.
    canukstormdysamoria
  • Reply 52 of 71
    A series apps run on Intel.........Intel apps run on A series!!!
  • Reply 53 of 71
    Very interesting.

    I recycled my 2009 MBP and 2006 intel iMac for a 2017 MacBook just to have the latest and greatest MacOS. I love having Messages at my fingertips as well as the improved Notes App. I would be thrilled if I had access to my AppleWatch App on my MacBook. Maybe the News app, too. 

    Best.
    I wonder if my school's 2004 eMacs will support iOS apps.
  • Reply 54 of 71
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,709member
    MacRumors has a different take on this report — “Apple Plans to Let Developers Release Universal Apps That Work Across iPhone, iPad, and Mac”

    https://www.macrumors.com/2017/12/20/apple-plans-universal-ios-mac-apps/

    ...they frame the report around being about universal app releases, not running iOS apps on macOS. This seems more likely for the dev reasons discussed earlier here.
    Storeyboards are so damn close to allowing this now it's not hard to imagine they couldn't make the leap and could have been setting themselves up over the last few versions. Sure there might be lots of underlying work to unify the two platforms but it's not like there hasn't been a transition going on anyway.

    Indeed I'd be surprised if this project wasn't Swift Interface, which might as well universal where possible and tweak-able to suit each platform.

    Although I do think Apple could have 3 real platforms instead of 2.5 and have a proper iPad Platform that could well be a cross-over iPad/Mac and push the ability of iPad apps to be productive apps that could run on a Mac as well would be a great thing.
  • Reply 55 of 71
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,681member
    Flytrap said:
    danv2 said:
    I have to be honest, I kind of want to vomit now. This only underscores them backtracking on years, and years, and years, of research and design. The touch screen is not the desktop and vice versa...  ...It did not work for Microsoft, and it did not work for Google, why in the hell is Apple doing this? ...But this is ripping up the playbook and crapping on the idea of a tablet OS and a desktop OS. They are separate....
    I think that you need to reread the article... particularly this part:
    With the expected upcoming changes, developers will be able to create a single application that can work with either a touchscreen, a mouse, or a trackpad.
    I do not think that there is any backtracking of the original stance from the Jobsian days. It is just a common build with all the binaries for touch based wearable watch, mobile phone and tablet; pointer based devices like the AppleTV; mouse and trackpad based desktops and laptop portables; and soon (I hope) voice based digital assistants like the home pod.  These will always remain separate targets, but the developers toolchain will be significantly simplified.  Developers already separate the user interface, from the business logic from the data from the communication protocols between the different parts.... all that this adds is an additional interface view (pretty easy for apps that already support a light mobile interface with a heavy desktop browser view) - most of the code, which is sitting in the cloud, anyway, remains the same

    Apple are the only one who can pull this off, because of the their control of all the target platforms - of course it does not work well when developers also want to target Windows, Chrome, Android etc. desktop, browser and mobile operating systems.

    In my experience, the reason why developers have been slow to embrace the Mac AppStore has been because there are many toolchains that target multiple mobile operating systems, but few that target multiple desktop operating systems as effectively and economically as targeting the desktop browser has been. So I doubt that this strategy will change much... unless, Apple creates a compelling case for developers to build apps that interact directly with their desktop counterparts without the round trip via the cloud.
    Several times, this. The dev value-add here would be being able to utilize your exact same business access layer of models and class libraries, and just having different front-end views calling it (your iOS front-end, your tvOS front-end, and now perhaps your macOS front-end), all in one project. As you said this removes some barriers and eases pain points.

    I'd bet this is more likely what they're implementing.
    There’s nothing stopping that happening now. Mac OS and iOS share the same non UI frameworks.  This, if it happens would either be a merge of app kit and UI kit or alternatively merely a way to simulate touch and multi touch on the Mac (that’s there already for devs). 
  • Reply 56 of 71
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,681member
    jimstead said:
    danv2 said:
    I have to be honest, I kind of want to vomit now. This only underscores them backtracking on years, and years, and years, of research and design. The touch screen is not the desktop and vice versa. This is the Red Wedding of macOS essentially to me. Making these super universal apps will destroy ecosystems, and make people incredibly frustrated. It did not work for Microsoft, and it did not work for Google, why in the hell is Apple doing this? Who did they hire? I'm betting some Google or Redmond recruit has gotten his claws in deep enough to poison the well and destroy a good thing. I can be up front in saying Jobs is rolling around in his grave at the moment, and yeah, I take that and run with it because its the truth. And yeah, Jobs is dead, but this is ripping up the playbook and crapping on the idea of a tablet OS and a desktop OS. They are separate, they are different. Programmers and customers alike do not like to conflate them. Mark my words though: 2018 Apple will require you to build a Mac OS app as well, and then state you can't put it on the App Store unless you have a version of both. The end result: anarchy and hell.
    Save the vomit. Today a developer can make a single iOS app that will run on iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, and Apple Watch. iPhone/iPad are mostly the same GUI, but TV and Watch have completely different GUIs. The change will allow a developer to add one more target, the Mac, which has its own GUI.
    That wouldn’t be new at all. In fact the Mac OS and iOS shared code long before the tvOS and the watch. Obviously. 

    What might be new is using a single storyboard or xib for the projects. 

    More likely it will just allow iOS apps to run on the Mac with little or no modification. Control Center on the Mac is basically an iOS type app layout. Expand that to show your iOS apps - with no Mac code - to run in a single screen. With Autolayout most apps will run well enough. 

    edited December 2017
  • Reply 57 of 71
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,870member
    tallest skil said:

    How will they be universal? How will many of them even work on OS X, given that they’d require more than one point of interaction? This sounds more like a fake rumor yet again.

    Touch pad/track pad?
  • Reply 58 of 71
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 1,709member
    ben20 said:
    Cool. Finally can use IOS apps with a mouse! What a time saver!
    I wonder if they could make a pencil case (like the airpods case) that doubled as a field generator and let you use the Apple pencil as a 3D/6DOF mouse. On any surface not just the iPad screen.

    Like the Airpods would instantly work with any device on a connected iCloud account.
    Use it with your iMac, go out to meeting take your iPad use the pencil to take notes, stop for coffee and set iPad with keyboard and pencil can be used as a mouse in the same app, to tidy up your notes and send.
  • Reply 59 of 71
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    danv2 said:
    wwchris said:
    Mouse support would actually allow the iPad to become a "real" computer. Que the "what's a computer" jokes. :-)
    This is my point entirely as well. If you start adding in the mouse to iPad apps you essentially just have a thin laptop. The entire point of the iPad was to avoid a mouse. The entire point of a desktop OS is to use a mouse. Splicing the two together holds no water, and has no dignity in the investment made during development. This isn't thinking different, this is thinking like the rest of the crowd and becoming a sheep. I'm none to happy about it either, but hey, I guess this is where we go. We give up on rock solid ideas that won entire platform wars to be just like the rest of the engineers losing ground.
    Many iPad apps would work fine with zero updates.  Don't forget developers regularly run iOS apps in XCode various emulators.   Of course those are actually recompiled apps for i86.     


    Frankly i dont think Apple understands Mac users or PC users in general.  They regularly F up the hardware lines with long drawn out product revisions and the wonder why people are buying.   The entire desktop line is rather pathetic at the moment and that includes iMac Pro.  The only thing that gets updated are the excuses Apple throws about.   You look at hardware available to Apple and you have to winder where in the hell are the updates and if not updates new models.  
    dysamoria
  • Reply 60 of 71
    paxman said:
    To be honest, I can't think of any iOS App I would use on my Mac except maybe for Infinite Flight. The Mac App store is already pretty damn good and offers a lot, especially for my needs. 
    I spend most of my day on my Mac and there are a few apps I'd be happy to have on the Mac so I don't have to pick up the phone. Not many but a few. As to having a mouse work on an iPad - I have no idea why people are so against this. It would immediately make the iPad so much more efficient for entering data. It would turn the iPad into a laptop and what on earth is wrong with that? It is not as if it would be obligatory. When Steve Jobs famously elevated 'the finger' to the perfect input device he was selling a relatively new concept. That was great salesmanship but not an indictment of the mouse as oftentimes the better input device. Which is better for Numbers or Excel? Which is better for editing text? And with the respect to the Pencil that just proves that the finger is not always the best.

    I wouldn't be against using a mouse on an iPad. I'm really into photo editing so I can see where a mouse would work well, especially if you are doing selective adjustments. Things like replacing a sky would be much better using a mouse compared to the Pencil or your finger. 
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