South Korea probes Apple's decision to slow down iPhones with weak batteries

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 39
    VRing said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will twist it into a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    I disagree, especially when even Apple Store staff remained in the dark. They couldn't even suggest for a user to replace their battery to fix any performance issues.
    Of course you do. 

    However you’re very much wrong again. Store geniuses can and do test the battery. If it fails diagnostics they suggest replacement.

    Do you use Apple gear? 
    Muntzwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 39
    Rayz2016 said:

    vonbrick said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    wood1208 said:
    Does reduce performance feature only acts on aged battery on iPhone 6/6S or it just does the same on Brand new iPhone 6/6S. If IOS/Firmware reads battery life degradation to a point before activating such feature than understandable. What happens in Brand new iPhoe 6/6S have genuine battery issue and software thinks it is degraded to a point to slow performance and customer will never know. Best solution is IOS should inform customer of battery performance degradation and let customer either choose to turn on in settings to turn on such feature or go replace the battery. .
    iOS does inform the customer of battery degradation. There’s a setting under Battery. In addition to this, if you contact Apple they will be able to test the battery remotely if your eyesight is good enough to read the phone’s serial number. Apple won’t just replace the battery because you ask them however. If the phone is shutting down or the battery is draining really quickly then the problem could be somewhere else. 
    Where in the Battery section does it report that my battery (or any battery in any version of iOS) is now operating in a "Degraded" mode based on its age or functional state?  And then where is the user notified that this automatic battery/power management will continue based on the same age/state?  Bonus points if you can also point to a message that informs me (or any user) that it is recommended based on this activity that I take my iPhone take an Apple-certified repair shop to have my battery tested or replaced?
    Er… what?

    When the phone tells me that the battery needs servicing, then it reasonably expects that common sense should tell me that I should:
    a. Get the battery serviced
    b. Expect degraded performance and/or an eventual shutdown.

    What it doesn't need to do is give me a list of possible causes for the battery problem or associated symptoms, because until the phone is looked at by a qualified bod then it's best not to assume what the problem is. The warning is there to get people to take the phone back to the shop. It is not there to give them a readout of possible scenarios and then say, "Your choice, dude."

    When my car warns me that it is running out of petrol then I can:
    a. Stop the car at a filling station
    b. Carry on, but expect degraded performance and/or an eventual shutdown. 

    What my car doesn't do, is try to guess how long I can run on fumes because that can change depending on how I'm driving it. 

    If the phone says the battery needs servicing, I don't checklist of options to tell me to get the battery serviced.
    No, seriously...I'm actually asking:  Where is this message from the phone that says my battery "needs servicing"?  We have one 6s Plus that is becoming unusable after the update to 11 (it can't even reliably bounce between landscape and portrait mode)...my 7 Plus is also beginning to slow way down.  I honestly cannot find any onboard tool or Apple app that tells me anything but how much battery remains and which apps are eating it...??

    As a consumer of much technology, perhaps it's interesting to note that a Galaxy S7 (purchased in Spring 2016) still functions normally.  It contains the original battery, retains a day-long charge with normal usage and doesn't seem to get "throttled" in any way...?
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 23 of 39
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,487member
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will view it as a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    Yeah, well let them try to prove a ‘sinister upgrade scheme’ in a court of law. Conspiracy theories don’t hold water with a judge. And by the way, George W Bush (43) ordered the levies blown in New Orleans when Katrina hit. It was a sinister plot to kill poor people.
    watto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 24 of 39
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,487member
    Oh my, South Korea, home to Samsung, is asking Apple to explain themselves. Wow, that one came out of nowhere.
    Muntzwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 25 of 39
    bshankbshank Posts: 254member
    VRing said:
    Apple doesn't slow down all the phones, only those with degraded battery. Also it slows down only in the peak performance time. Why can't people just understand that? When would you buy a new phone? when your phone shuts down randomly or when it lags sometimes? If Apple wants you to buy a new phone, it could just let your phone shut down due to poor battery. Its actually making you not to buy a new phone often. My 6S has the same exact Geekbench score now on iOS 11.2.1 just like it the day I bought it.
    Users that did experience this problem never knew that a battery replacement could remedy it. Apple never told them either, and to top it off, some of these users might have been under warranty and eligible for a free battery replacement.
    Apple told all of us in release notes for iOS 10.2.1
    Muntzwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 39
    VRingVRing Posts: 108member
    lkrupp said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will view it as a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    Yeah, well let them try to prove a ‘sinister upgrade scheme’ in a court of law. Conspiracy theories don’t hold water with a judge. And by the way, George W Bush (43) ordered the levies blown in New Orleans when Katrina hit. It was a sinister plot to kill poor people.
    ^Dismissing as a conspiracy theory.
    lkrupp said:
    Oh my, South Korea, home to Samsung, is asking Apple to explain themselves. Wow, that one came out of nowhere.
    ^Deflecting because South Korea and Samsung.

    What nonsense. How toxic of you.

    So here are the facts:
    • Apple slowed performance of iPhone models with degraded batteries (seen within a year of release).
    • Apple didn't tell anyone, not even Apple Store staff.
    • Users, some of which had been / are under warranty, had not been made aware that a battery replacement would remedy performance issues.
    edited December 2017 sgunderson94muthuk_vanalingamsingularityaylk
  • Reply 27 of 39
    I love this forum and have been reading it for a long time.  I finally signed up to comment because I decided I wanted to say something/ask a question.  I have countless Apple products and love all of them, but I have some older devices.  I do not understand why devices like my IPAD 3 have slowed to a snail's pace when doing simple things like using imessage.  I understand the slowdown for newer apps that demand more resources (although I am pretty sure they can be optimized for older devices), but issues like this scream forced obsolescence.  There is a significant lag (2 or 3 seconds when typing letters) when just interfacing with settings inside of the device.  A company worth almost $1 Trillion cannot figure out how to stop forcing older devices to not upgrade in order to not slow them down?  Why can't we move back to an older IOS if the new one slows our devices to "unusable" speeds?  Again, a $1 Trillion company cannot figure out how to allow us to do this?  I was told upgrading the IOS would make my device more efficient.....this was an exaggeration or a lie.  My IPAD 3 has plenty of battery life.  I paid almost $1000 for it and I want to still use it for simple things, but the IOS is such dogcrap that it is unusable.  I am ready for Apple to get the message that this is not good for them in the long run becasue people like me are starting to wake up to this garbage.  My Nexus 7, which is about the same age as my IPAD 3, does not suffer from this problem. 
    muthuk_vanalingamaylk
  • Reply 28 of 39
    VRing said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will twist it into a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    I disagree, especially when even Apple Store staff remained in the dark. They couldn't even suggest for a user to replace their battery to fix any performance issues.
    Of course you do. 

    However you’re very much wrong again. Store geniuses can and do test the battery. If it fails diagnostics they suggest replacement.

    Do you use Apple gear? 
    He isn't necessarily wrong.  Do you have proof the Genius Bar test for battery capacity is the exact same test the phone uses to determine when to throttle?  Anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise, but hopefully you can provide links to the inner workings of the iOS algorithms for battery capacity and throttling thresholds that nobody else has been able to find.

    There were multiple instances of people who took their sluggish phones with degraded benchmark scores into the Apple store only to have the battery capacity test fine.  They were told to do a phone restore which didn't fix the issue; however, when they had a third party replace the battery the throttling went away.  The Apple Store staff had absolutely no idea if the phone was being throttled.  They did suggest replacement if the battery failed the 80% capacity test, but if it passed the test they blamed resource-hogging apps or bloated storage for the slowdown even though a battery replacement could (and frequently did) rectify the issue.

    My personal guess is the phone looks at instantaneous voltage output from the battery and throttles the CPU as soon as it falls below a preset limit.  A battery with 90% capacity that can't supply the proper voltage at high demand levels will test fine in-store but could still trigger throttling.  That is why people are upset Apple offers no message when the phone clips the CPU performance and why it looks suspiciously like Apple did so in a deliberate attempt to avoid having to fix devices that were still under warranty.

    At this point nobody knows how the systems work.  To claim absolutely that the Genius Bar test would positively identify phone throttling related performance issues has no factual basis.  Until Apple discloses the algorithms they use any claims as to what they do are pure speculation.
    edited December 2017 VRingmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 29 of 39
    VRing said:
    Users that did experience this problem never knew that a battery replacement could remedy it. Apple never told them either, and to top it off, some of these users might have been under warranty and eligible for a free battery replacement.
    I have a friend who was in this situation starting in 2016. Her iPhone 6 had a relatively large number of cycles but was still showing good capacity (~90%). It took a few tries but Apple did replace the whole phone under warranty early in 2017.

    I subsequently (June) replaced the battery in my out of warranty 6 after it was showing battery crashes from 40%-> 20% in about 20 minutes for no apparent reason. That was based on her experience plus the articles I was seeing at the time discussing the battery issue and software fixes.

    I understand most users don't follow AppleIsider, ArsTechnica, or MacRumors so perhaps I was lucky to have the knowledge.
  • Reply 30 of 39
    bshank said:
    VRing said:
    Apple doesn't slow down all the phones, only those with degraded battery. Also it slows down only in the peak performance time. Why can't people just understand that? When would you buy a new phone? when your phone shuts down randomly or when it lags sometimes? If Apple wants you to buy a new phone, it could just let your phone shut down due to poor battery. Its actually making you not to buy a new phone often. My 6S has the same exact Geekbench score now on iOS 11.2.1 just like it the day I bought it.
    Users that did experience this problem never knew that a battery replacement could remedy it. Apple never told them either, and to top it off, some of these users might have been under warranty and eligible for a free battery replacement.
    Apple told all of us in release notes for iOS 10.2.1
    Here's the statement from the release notes:  "It also improves power management during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns on iPhone."

    How in the world would any reasonable user infer the software is looking for a battery that cannot supply proper voltage out of that statement?  That statement could just as easily mean that the software cuts back on background app activity, slightly dims the display, reduces wi-fi & Bluetooth transmit power, or any number of other possibilities during peak workloads to ensure the full processing power of the phone is available to the active application.  Nowhere does it mention throttling or battery issues.

    It would have been much different if they would have stated they were throttling CPU power in response to inadequate battery output.  That would have put the owners on notice it was a hardware problem that could be eligible for a warranty repair or replacement.
    VRingmuthuk_vanalingamaylk
  • Reply 31 of 39
    VRing said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will twist it into a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    I disagree, especially when even Apple Store staff remained in the dark. They couldn't even suggest for a user to replace their battery to fix any performance issues.
    There was a warning in the battery section of Settings. How stupid are people?
    Muntzwatto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 39
    VRing said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will twist it into a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    I disagree, especially when even Apple Store staff remained in the dark. They couldn't even suggest for a user to replace their battery to fix any performance issues.
    There was a warning in the battery section of Settings. How stupid are people?
    The throttling was occurring without the warning appearing in the Settings app.
    VRingmuthuk_vanalingamsingularityaylk
  • Reply 33 of 39
    foggyhill said:
    78Bandit said:
    VRing said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will twist it into a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    I disagree, especially when even Apple Store staff remained in the dark. They couldn't even suggest for a user to replace their battery to fix any performance issues.
    Of course you do. 

    However you’re very much wrong again. Store geniuses can and do test the battery. If it fails diagnostics they suggest replacement.

    Do you use Apple gear? 
    He isn't necessarily wrong.  Do you have proof the Genius Bar test for battery capacity is the exact same test the phone uses to determine when to throttle?  Anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise, but hopefully you can provide links to the inner workings of the iOS algorithms for battery capacity and throttling thresholds that nobody else has been able to find.

    There were multiple instances of people who took their sluggish phones with degraded benchmark scores into the Apple store only to have the battery capacity test fine.  They were told to do a phone restore which didn't fix the issue; however, when they had a third party replace the battery the throttling went away.  The Apple Store staff had absolutely no idea if the phone was being throttled.  They did suggest replacement if the battery failed the 80% capacity test, but if it passed the test they blamed resource-hogging apps or bloated storage for the slowdown even though a battery replacement could (and frequently did) rectify the issue.

    My personal guess is the phone looks at instantaneous voltage output from the battery and throttles the CPU as soon as it falls below a preset limit.  A battery with 90% capacity that can't supply the proper voltage at high demand levels will test fine in-store but could still trigger throttling.  That is why people are upset Apple offers no message when the phone clips the CPU performance and why it looks suspiciously like Apple did so in a deliberate attempt to avoid having to fix devices that were still under warranty.

    At this point nobody knows how the systems work.  To claim absolutely that the Genius Bar test would positively identify phone throttling related performance issues has no factual basis.  Until Apple discloses the algorithms they use any claims as to what they do are pure speculation.
    You pulled lot of crap out if your ass here huh
    Anything besides a personal attack that provides proof what Apple is actually doing?  I would love to see evidence the Genius Bar test does indeed identify all instances where the throttling introduced in iOS 10.2.1 is triggered due to insufficient battery power output.
    muthuk_vanalingam[Deleted User]
  • Reply 34 of 39
    78Bandit said:
    VRing said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will twist it into a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    I disagree, especially when even Apple Store staff remained in the dark. They couldn't even suggest for a user to replace their battery to fix any performance issues.
    Of course you do. 

    However you’re very much wrong again. Store geniuses can and do test the battery. If it fails diagnostics they suggest replacement.

    Do you use Apple gear? 
    He isn't necessarily wrong.  Do you have proof the Genius Bar test for battery capacity is the exact same test the phone uses to determine when to throttle?  Anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise, but hopefully you can provide links to the inner workings of the iOS algorithms for battery capacity and throttling thresholds that nobody else has been able to find.

    There were multiple instances of people who took their sluggish phones with degraded benchmark scores into the Apple store only to have the battery capacity test fine.  They were told to do a phone restore which didn't fix the issue; however, when they had a third party replace the battery the throttling went away.  The Apple Store staff had absolutely no idea if the phone was being throttled.  They did suggest replacement if the battery failed the 80% capacity test, but if it passed the test they blamed resource-hogging apps or bloated storage for the slowdown even though a battery replacement could (and frequently did) rectify the issue.

    My personal guess is the phone looks at instantaneous voltage output from the battery and throttles the CPU as soon as it falls below a preset limit.  A battery with 90% capacity that can't supply the proper voltage at high demand levels will test fine in-store but could still trigger throttling.  That is why people are upset Apple offers no message when the phone clips the CPU performance and why it looks suspiciously like Apple did so in a deliberate attempt to avoid having to fix devices that were still under warranty.

    At this point nobody knows how the systems work.  To claim absolutely that the Genius Bar test would positively identify phone throttling related performance issues has no factual basis.  Until Apple discloses the algorithms they use any claims as to what they do are pure speculation.
    Don't be absurd, you're making straw men of things I never claimed. Read the quoted posts -- he said store personally can't even suggest a user replace their battery, which is false and what I chimed in with the fact that store geniuses perform battery diagnostics, and if the battery fails the test they recommend replacement.

    Just because people experience "slowness" on their phones doesn't mean it's peak power draw throttling. In most instances I would suspect it isn't. Older phones run newer stuff more slowly. This is how computing works.

    But oh! Conspiracy! Field day for haters!
    edited December 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 39

    78Bandit said:
    foggyhill said:
    78Bandit said:
    VRing said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will twist it into a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    I disagree, especially when even Apple Store staff remained in the dark. They couldn't even suggest for a user to replace their battery to fix any performance issues.
    Of course you do. 

    However you’re very much wrong again. Store geniuses can and do test the battery. If it fails diagnostics they suggest replacement.

    Do you use Apple gear? 
    He isn't necessarily wrong.  Do you have proof the Genius Bar test for battery capacity is the exact same test the phone uses to determine when to throttle?  Anecdotal evidence suggests otherwise, but hopefully you can provide links to the inner workings of the iOS algorithms for battery capacity and throttling thresholds that nobody else has been able to find.

    There were multiple instances of people who took their sluggish phones with degraded benchmark scores into the Apple store only to have the battery capacity test fine.  They were told to do a phone restore which didn't fix the issue; however, when they had a third party replace the battery the throttling went away.  The Apple Store staff had absolutely no idea if the phone was being throttled.  They did suggest replacement if the battery failed the 80% capacity test, but if it passed the test they blamed resource-hogging apps or bloated storage for the slowdown even though a battery replacement could (and frequently did) rectify the issue.

    My personal guess is the phone looks at instantaneous voltage output from the battery and throttles the CPU as soon as it falls below a preset limit.  A battery with 90% capacity that can't supply the proper voltage at high demand levels will test fine in-store but could still trigger throttling.  That is why people are upset Apple offers no message when the phone clips the CPU performance and why it looks suspiciously like Apple did so in a deliberate attempt to avoid having to fix devices that were still under warranty.

    At this point nobody knows how the systems work.  To claim absolutely that the Genius Bar test would positively identify phone throttling related performance issues has no factual basis.  Until Apple discloses the algorithms they use any claims as to what they do are pure speculation.
    You pulled lot of crap out if your ass here huh
    Anything besides a personal attack that provides proof what Apple is actually doing?  I would love to see evidence the Genius Bar test does indeed identify all instances where the throttling introduced in iOS 10.2.1 is triggered due to insufficient battery power output.
    Whoever claimed such a thing? Please quote them.
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 36 of 39
    JFC_PAJFC_PA Posts: 885member
    VRing said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will twist it into a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    I disagree, especially when even Apple Store staff remained in the dark. They couldn't even suggest for a user to replace their battery to fix any performance issues.
    Of course you do. 

    However you’re very much wrong again. Store geniuses can and do test the battery. If it fails diagnostics they suggest replacement.

    Do you use Apple gear? 
    I had precisely that experience with an Apple Watch series 0. I had a new one (Series 2, no charge) in four days. 
  • Reply 37 of 39
    JFC_PAJFC_PA Posts: 885member
    78Bandit said:
    VRing said:
    jd_in_sb said:
    Apple’s intentions were good but I can see how some will twist it into a sinister upgrade scheme. People love conspiracies. 
    I disagree, especially when even Apple Store staff remained in the dark. They couldn't even suggest for a user to replace their battery to fix any performance issues.
    There was a warning in the battery section of Settings. How stupid are people?
    The throttling was occurring without the warning appearing in the Settings app.
    No, apparent slowing down was occurring due to any possible number of things including apps that hadn’t been upgraded to match the newer iOS code.
  • Reply 38 of 39
    Unexpected shutdown vs slower device during peaks... both of those situations would cause someone to get a new phone... but which one is more likely?  My vote would be on the shutdowns.  That said, it should’ve been stated or disseminated that a battery replacement will fix the issue when the software was put in place.
  • Reply 39 of 39
    aylkaylk Posts: 54member
    So if Apple is doing this because it intends to give you the best performance possible at all times... Are these phones running full speed when connected to the USB power adapter? 
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