[...] Of course my biggest issue with all of these routers is their cost.
My initial reaction was sticker shock, but then I realized I paid more than that to have multiple Airports, and they don't provide mesh coverage.
Would even a decent router and extenders by much less expensive that what this costs?
I have two Airports configured to provide the same type of coverage mesh systems provide. Apple makes it real easy to configure the second device and it uses the same SSID so what's the difference between this configuration and a mesh system? I hardwired the second Airport to the first via ethernet so I wouldn't lose any speed. Apple sells the Extreme for $199, Amazon has refurbished for $169. The Veloc info says there are no unsightly connecting cables, but you still have the power cord and the main ethernet cable from your cable/DSL modem so there are cables involved. The Veloc has two ethernet ports so they can be connected the same way I connected my Airports.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202056 I used the roaming configuration. Using Airport Utility, go under Wireless, then drop down menu to Extend Wireless Network. The Utility handles all the configuration settings and you're off and running. I haven't tried using a third Airport but I see no reason why this wouldn't work.
Other manufacturers stuff just doesn't look as elegant as Apple's stuff. Maybe it's b/c Linksys, LogiTech, etc., is printed on them and the white or aluminum color is never the right shade.
I understand Apple's position...but I don't like it. I used to proudly display the Apple white routers I owned. I'll miss them.
Right now I have an ugly black plastic cable modem/router combo, from a manufacturer that I can't remember the name of. It's hidden on the floor behind a bookshelf. One of the ugliest pieces of tech in my house. The printer is pretty ugly, too. That's in my closet. I have a Blu-Ray player, disconnected and under the bed in the second bedroom.
Best.
I don't stare at my router all day long so I don't really care what it looks like...it sits I a closet. I haven't seen my router in months.
Too bad they don't sell the Netgear Orbi because I think it's a better system. It has a dedicated 5.8 GHz backhaul channel capable of 1.7 Gbps. The satellite has a built-in 4-port Ethernet switch, so I've moved all the wifi devices in my entertainment center (Mac mini, Apple TV, Blue-Ray player, Samsung TV) to Ethernet, which fixed an issue I had with my Mac mini dropping off the wifi network. I had been using an 802.11ac Airport Extreme and there was a very noticeable improvement in my wifi speeds with the Orbi.
I made the jump to mesh last year and the Velop was on my short list of contenders. I ended up going with the Amplifi in the end. I liked the screen that allows updates to be applied with a few touches of the screen, rather than digging out an app. Also, the Velop was hard to get, or maybe delayed when I wanted to make the upgrade.
Reason for needing mesh (since the haters love to nerdsplain to people why they don't need mesh technology): I bought an empty lot adjacent to my home several years ago (during the housing bubble bursting, the lot was cheaper than a nice used car) and have since built up lots of gardens and spend more and more time there through the summer. The downside was my AirPort Extreme Base Station wouldn't reach the areas I spend my time there. Combine that with all the great outdoor nerd gear I'm interested in using, and I needed to upgrade the coverage of my network.
I wonder if the Velop ends up being the anointed successor, if Apple will somehow bless them to offer special abilities. Siri? Airplay?
Retired my AirPort Extreme Dual Band with Improved Antenna (a great device) with the handwriting on the wall as Apple chases shiny things like TV shows and rental music. My eero is OK but does not have the ability to be controlled from a Mac- it is iOS only. Maybe the Hipsters like squinting at their iPhone, but I want a browser interface or a dedicated app. That and no audio jack on the satellites are my only gripes with the eero.
That Linksys thing is ugly. If I brought that thing home I would be in the dog house.
Sticker shock. If you can live with 2.5/5 no AC you can get 5 AP-EXP for their 3-pack. And for someone with a normal-sized house and you want AC, AP-EXT is likely going to do the job for less. Hope this is not a harbinger for replacement of the AP line.
Anybody using Plume? I considered it but haven’t gone yet to mesh. I’d use my house hardwiring for Ethernet backhauling to maximize the WiFi connectivity for delivery. Just curious about Plume vs the others mentioned here.
Apple used to make their own printers, including the Laserwriter. They made their own monitors. They even made a digital camera. In my opinion it’s just common sense that Apple decided to let peripheral manufacturers who specialize in certain peripherals do their thing. The problem , as we saw with the LG monitor, is that those manufacturers aren’t always on the same level of quality. With the Linksys mesh routers they have the category covered. The Airport Extreme and the Time Capsule are still available.
The Linksys mesh routers do not include a USB port so there is no way to attach a USB printer or hard drive. So diminished capability in comparison to the Apple products whatever you think of them.
You are dredging news up from the depths of time. Prior to 2004.
Is this part of the entry not true?:
Huawei:
"The source code of the issues was actually from a 3rd party partner"
I'm not trying to paint Huawei as innocent but thanks to certain world famous leaks, I'm far more worried about what many government agencies are trying to dip their fingers into than what's going on in my home network.
And seeing that Huawei runs about a third of the world's communications backbone technology there is always a risk that your data is flowing through their equipment anyway. How far do you go to protect that data? And what do those who communicate with you, do to protect it?
According to Cisco that entry was not true, they weren't allowed to talk about it until so. I was on my phone earlier and not having a multi-clipboard sucks. But between that, AT&T dropping them and Motorola suing them for theft, just trying to point out they have a sketchy past.
You're right about the NSA and others being close to the engineering process of these backbones being the higher concern.
I'm far from a conspiracy theorist, but I don't trust this company. They feel like a shady Samsung
After a lot of research, I went with the Ubiquiti Amplifi Mesh set when it came time to replace my AirPorts. Dead simple to set up and assign "profiles" to each device based on usage and anticipated data flow (ie: Streaming device, Gaming Computer, etc). No issues so far.
We recently tried switched from a dumb modem feeding an Apple router to a the cable company's modem/router/WiFi base station.
The Apple TV in the bedroom wouldn't connect reliably. Back to my Mac would't work. Home Sharing and AirPlay were inconsistent. I called the cable company and had them bridge the modem so the Airport could be the router again. Everything immediately went back to working properly.
This is why I want Apple-branded equipment handling the communications between my Apple-branded devices. Maybe there are settings that can be adjusted and ports that can be opened on the box from the cable company, but that's all WAY above my pay grade and I have zero interest in being bothered with that kind of crap.
You are dredging news up from the depths of time. Prior to 2004.
Is this part of the entry not true?:
Huawei:
"The source code of the issues was actually from a 3rd party partner"
I'm not trying to paint Huawei as innocent but thanks to certain world famous leaks, I'm far more worried about what many government agencies are trying to dip their fingers into than what's going on in my home network.
And seeing that Huawei runs about a third of the world's communications backbone technology there is always a risk that your data is flowing through their equipment anyway. How far do you go to protect that data? And what do those who communicate with you, do to protect it?
According to Cisco that entry was not true, they weren't allowed to talk about it until so. I was on my phone earlier and not having a multi-clipboard sucks. But between that, AT&T dropping them and Motorola suing them for theft, just trying to point out they have a sketchy past.
You're right about the NSA and others being close to the engineering process of these backbones being the higher concern.
I'm far from a conspiracy theorist, but I don't trust this company. They feel like a shady Samsung
I know what you mean but just take different stance. Both are valid. And there is a lot of grey in the mix too.
For Huawei specifically, I find it encouraging that in spite of probable government efforts to actually find a smoking gun, none have been found for years except for Snowden's revelation which showed that a gun actually existed but in fact belonged to the US who, to great irony, was left in very bad light for 'getting caught' doing exactly what it was accusing Huawei of. Almost comical.
I remember years ago Paris Police launched a prostitution crackdown, raided a brothel and caught their own police chief with his trousers around his ankles.
After that, every time I hear Blackadder say: "I'm happy as a Frenchman who's invented a pair of self- removing trousers", I can't help but laugh.
I imagine the US has tried very hard to actually find something but come up blank.
The lack of trust will persist for a time in the US but Huawei has already won over large swathes of the world and as long as they don't get stained by some scandal, they will probably swing opinion around at some point.
Richard Yu even went off script at his CES keynote and actually showed some feeling. He obviously feels the US is behaving very unfairly.
It is rumoured that Apple pays Huawei millions every year as the net result of IP cross licencing, with Apple supposedly using IP resulting from almost 800 Huawei patents while Huawei has access to Apple IP covered by around 80 patents. Huawei has global R&D centres and invests around 10% of total revenue to that end. That puts the IP theft part into a little more context even if there may be cases (industry wide).
[...] Of course my biggest issue with all of these routers is their cost.
My initial reaction was sticker shock, but then I realized I paid more than that to have multiple Airports, and they don't provide mesh coverage.
Would even a decent router and extenders by much less expensive that what this costs?
I have two Airports configured to provide the same type of coverage mesh systems provide. Apple makes it real easy to configure the second device and it uses the same SSID so what's the difference between this configuration and a mesh system? I hardwired the second Airport to the first via ethernet so I wouldn't lose any speed. Apple sells the Extreme for $199, Amazon has refurbished for $169. The Veloc info says there are no unsightly connecting cables, but you still have the power cord and the main ethernet cable from your cable/DSL modem so there are cables involved. The Veloc has two ethernet ports so they can be connected the same way I connected my Airports.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202056 I used the roaming configuration. Using Airport Utility, go under Wireless, then drop down menu to Extend Wireless Network. The Utility handles all the configuration settings and you're off and running. I haven't tried using a third Airport but I see no reason why this wouldn't work.
I am very interested in hearing other people's opinions on this set-up. I'm thinking of getting another Airport Extreme and setting up a mesh network in the same fashion as rob53. Does anyone know if this set-up would be just as good as a Netgear Orbi or Ubiquiti Amplifi mesh network?
[...] Of course my biggest issue with all of these routers is their cost.
My initial reaction was sticker shock, but then I realized I paid more than that to have multiple Airports, and they don't provide mesh coverage.
Would even a decent router and extenders by much less expensive that what this costs?
I have two Airports configured to provide the same type of coverage mesh systems provide. Apple makes it real easy to configure the second device and it uses the same SSID so what's the difference between this configuration and a mesh system? I hardwired the second Airport to the first via ethernet so I wouldn't lose any speed. Apple sells the Extreme for $199, Amazon has refurbished for $169. The Veloc info says there are no unsightly connecting cables, but you still have the power cord and the main ethernet cable from your cable/DSL modem so there are cables involved. The Veloc has two ethernet ports so they can be connected the same way I connected my Airports.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202056 I used the roaming configuration. Using Airport Utility, go under Wireless, then drop down menu to Extend Wireless Network. The Utility handles all the configuration settings and you're off and running. I haven't tried using a third Airport but I see no reason why this wouldn't work.
I am very interested in hearing other people's opinions on this set-up. I'm thinking of getting another Airport Extreme and setting up a mesh network in the same fashion as rob53. Does anyone know if this set-up would be just as good as a Netgear Orbi or Ubiquiti Amplifi mesh network?
No. First, adding an extender does not create a mesh. Google it. Mesh has advantages over extenders.
Second, it doesn't work as well as you'd think. Our kitchen was a dead spot so we bought a second Airport Extreme and, with help from Apple telephone support, set it up as an extender to cover that side of the house.
The problem is that even though it's all one network with a common SSID, it's still seen by devices as two separate transmission points, and the device has to decide which one it wants to connect to. So, if I'm doing something in the living room and walk into the kitchen, the device may or may not switch over and connect to the second transmitter. Most of the time it just tries to cling to the signal from the living room.
So no, adding a second Airport is not the same or as good as a mesh system.
[...] Of course my biggest issue with all of these routers is their cost.
My initial reaction was sticker shock, but then I realized I paid more than that to have multiple Airports, and they don't provide mesh coverage.
Would even a decent router and extenders by much less expensive that what this costs?
I have two Airports configured to provide the same type of coverage mesh systems provide. Apple makes it real easy to configure the second device and it uses the same SSID so what's the difference between this configuration and a mesh system? I hardwired the second Airport to the first via ethernet so I wouldn't lose any speed. Apple sells the Extreme for $199, Amazon has refurbished for $169. The Veloc info says there are no unsightly connecting cables, but you still have the power cord and the main ethernet cable from your cable/DSL modem so there are cables involved. The Veloc has two ethernet ports so they can be connected the same way I connected my Airports.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202056 I used the roaming configuration. Using Airport Utility, go under Wireless, then drop down menu to Extend Wireless Network. The Utility handles all the configuration settings and you're off and running. I haven't tried using a third Airport but I see no reason why this wouldn't work.
I am very interested in hearing other people's opinions on this set-up. I'm thinking of getting another Airport Extreme and setting up a mesh network in the same fashion as rob53. Does anyone know if this set-up would be just as good as a Netgear Orbi or Ubiquiti Amplifi mesh network?
No. First, adding an extender does not create a mesh. Google it. Mesh has advantages over extenders.
Second, it doesn't work as well as you'd think. Our kitchen was a dead spot so we bought a second Airport Extreme and, with help from Apple telephone support, set it up as an extender to cover that side of the house.
The problem is that even though it's all one network with a common SSID, it's still seen by devices as two separate transmission points, and the device has to decide which one it wants to connect to. So, if I'm doing something in the living room and walk into the kitchen, the device may or may not switch over and connect to the second transmitter. Most of the time it just tries to cling to the signal from the living room.
So no, adding a second Airport is not the same or as good as a mesh system.
I don't understand how mesh and extender became synonymous terms for some people. Perhaps oddly, it only seems to be with people who have AirPort products. Maybe they just want to assume that anything Apple does is the best and latest technology, despite the AirPort products not having any HW updates in many years? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Apple used to make their own printers, including the Laserwriter. They made their own monitors. They even made a digital camera. In my opinion it’s just common sense that Apple decided to let peripheral manufacturers who specialize in certain peripherals do their thing. The problem , as we saw with the LG monitor, is that those manufacturers aren’t always on the same level of quality. With the Linksys mesh routers they have the category covered. The Airport Extreme and the Time Capsule are still available.
The Linksys mesh routers do not include a USB port so there is no way to attach a USB printer or hard drive. So diminished capability in comparison to the Apple products whatever you think of them.
I think you mean "different capability" rather than "diminished capability"
Apple AP products do not offer mesh networking.
To be clear, I have been happy with all my Apple AP products, though at present I use a Mesh product (Apmlifi as mentioned above).
After a lot of research, I went with the Ubiquiti Amplifi Mesh set when it came time to replace my AirPorts. Dead simple to set up and assign "profiles" to each device based on usage and anticipated data flow (ie: Streaming device, Gaming Computer, etc). No issues so far.
Ditto here - I had a 6 year old Time Capsule that had served me will but was showing its age. Too bad Apple didn’t continue their wifi router development. I liked the integration with OS X, but their routers are definitely behind the times in terms of capabilities. The Amplifi system is very capable, easy to set up and use and has been rock-solid stable.
[...] Of course my biggest issue with all of these routers is their cost.
My initial reaction was sticker shock, but then I realized I paid more than that to have multiple Airports, and they don't provide mesh coverage.
Would even a decent router and extenders by much less expensive that what this costs?
I have two Airports configured to provide the same type of coverage mesh systems provide. Apple makes it real easy to configure the second device and it uses the same SSID so what's the difference between this configuration and a mesh system? I hardwired the second Airport to the first via ethernet so I wouldn't lose any speed. Apple sells the Extreme for $199, Amazon has refurbished for $169. The Veloc info says there are no unsightly connecting cables, but you still have the power cord and the main ethernet cable from your cable/DSL modem so there are cables involved. The Veloc has two ethernet ports so they can be connected the same way I connected my Airports.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202056 I used the roaming configuration. Using Airport Utility, go under Wireless, then drop down menu to Extend Wireless Network. The Utility handles all the configuration settings and you're off and running. I haven't tried using a third Airport but I see no reason why this wouldn't work.
I am very interested in hearing other people's opinions on this set-up. I'm thinking of getting another Airport Extreme and setting up a mesh network in the same fashion as rob53. Does anyone know if this set-up would be just as good as a Netgear Orbi or Ubiquiti Amplifi mesh network?
All my old AirPort gear is setup at my parents house and I have used various pieces as extenders to get wifi to problem areas in the house.
This Christmas they got my AirPort Extreme AC Base Station. I was able to retire all the extenders because the new(wish) AP Base Station was able to get full signal bars as measured by a MBP through their whole house. For the two-story, single lot home my parents live in, the modern(ish) AirPort base Station does fine.
I opted for a mesh setup to cover a two-lot-wide network as I described above.
There is no apparent down-side to my Amplifi mesh setup and I have a much greater range.
[...] Of course my biggest issue with all of these routers is their cost.
My initial reaction was sticker shock, but then I realized I paid more than that to have multiple Airports, and they don't provide mesh coverage.
Would even a decent router and extenders by much less expensive that what this costs?
I have two Airports configured to provide the same type of coverage mesh systems provide. Apple makes it real easy to configure the second device and it uses the same SSID so what's the difference between this configuration and a mesh system? I hardwired the second Airport to the first via ethernet so I wouldn't lose any speed. Apple sells the Extreme for $199, Amazon has refurbished for $169. The Veloc info says there are no unsightly connecting cables, but you still have the power cord and the main ethernet cable from your cable/DSL modem so there are cables involved. The Veloc has two ethernet ports so they can be connected the same way I connected my Airports.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202056 I used the roaming configuration. Using Airport Utility, go under Wireless, then drop down menu to Extend Wireless Network. The Utility handles all the configuration settings and you're off and running. I haven't tried using a third Airport but I see no reason why this wouldn't work.
I am very interested in hearing other people's opinions on this set-up. I'm thinking of getting another Airport Extreme and setting up a mesh network in the same fashion as rob53. Does anyone know if this set-up would be just as good as a Netgear Orbi or Ubiquiti Amplifi mesh network?
No. First, adding an extender does not create a mesh. Google it. Mesh has advantages over extenders.
Second, it doesn't work as well as you'd think. Our kitchen was a dead spot so we bought a second Airport Extreme and, with help from Apple telephone support, set it up as an extender to cover that side of the house.
The problem is that even though it's all one network with a common SSID, it's still seen by devices as two separate transmission points, and the device has to decide which one it wants to connect to. So, if I'm doing something in the living room and walk into the kitchen, the device may or may not switch over and connect to the second transmitter. Most of the time it just tries to cling to the signal from the living room.
So no, adding a second Airport is not the same or as good as a mesh system.
I don't understand how mesh and extender became synonymous terms for some people. Perhaps oddly, it only seems to be with people who have AirPort products. Maybe they just want to assume that anything Apple does is the best and latest technology, despite the AirPort products not having any HW updates in many years? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Its probably because mesh network equipment is typically marketed as EXTENDING the reach of your network. To a non-technical person, its seems like an obviously interchangeable term.
Comments
I have two Airports configured to provide the same type of coverage mesh systems provide. Apple makes it real easy to configure the second device and it uses the same SSID so what's the difference between this configuration and a mesh system? I hardwired the second Airport to the first via ethernet so I wouldn't lose any speed. Apple sells the Extreme for $199, Amazon has refurbished for $169. The Veloc info says there are no unsightly connecting cables, but you still have the power cord and the main ethernet cable from your cable/DSL modem so there are cables involved. The Veloc has two ethernet ports so they can be connected the same way I connected my Airports.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202056 I used the roaming configuration. Using Airport Utility, go under Wireless, then drop down menu to Extend Wireless Network. The Utility handles all the configuration settings and you're off and running. I haven't tried using a third Airport but I see no reason why this wouldn't work.
Reason for needing mesh (since the haters love to nerdsplain to people why they don't need mesh technology): I bought an empty lot adjacent to my home several years ago (during the housing bubble bursting, the lot was cheaper than a nice used car) and have since built up lots of gardens and spend more and more time there through the summer. The downside was my AirPort Extreme Base Station wouldn't reach the areas I spend my time there. Combine that with all the great outdoor nerd gear I'm interested in using, and I needed to upgrade the coverage of my network.
I wonder if the Velop ends up being the anointed successor, if Apple will somehow bless them to offer special abilities. Siri? Airplay?
Maybe the Hipsters like squinting at their iPhone, but I want a browser interface or a dedicated app. That and no audio jack on the satellites are my only gripes with the eero.
That Linksys thing is ugly. If I brought that thing home I would be in the dog house.
The Linksys mesh routers do not include a USB port so there is no way to attach a USB printer or hard drive. So diminished capability in comparison to the Apple products whatever you think of them.
According to Cisco that entry was not true, they weren't allowed to talk about it until so. I was on my phone earlier and not having a multi-clipboard sucks. But between that, AT&T dropping them and Motorola suing them for theft, just trying to point out they have a sketchy past.
You're right about the NSA and others being close to the engineering process of these backbones being the higher concern.
I'm far from a conspiracy theorist, but I don't trust this company. They feel like a shady Samsung
Dead simple to set up and assign "profiles" to each device based on usage and anticipated data flow (ie: Streaming device, Gaming Computer, etc).
No issues so far.
The Apple TV in the bedroom wouldn't connect reliably. Back to my Mac would't work. Home Sharing and AirPlay were inconsistent. I called the cable company and had them bridge the modem so the Airport could be the router again. Everything immediately went back to working properly.
This is why I want Apple-branded equipment handling the communications between my Apple-branded devices. Maybe there are settings that can be adjusted and ports that can be opened on the box from the cable company, but that's all WAY above my pay grade and I have zero interest in being bothered with that kind of crap.
For Huawei specifically, I find it encouraging that in spite of probable government efforts to actually find a smoking gun, none have been found for years except for Snowden's revelation which showed that a gun actually existed but in fact belonged to the US who, to great irony, was left in very bad light for 'getting caught' doing exactly what it was accusing Huawei of. Almost comical.
I remember years ago Paris Police launched a prostitution crackdown, raided a brothel and caught their own police chief with his trousers around his ankles.
After that, every time I hear Blackadder say: "I'm happy as a Frenchman who's invented a pair of self- removing trousers", I can't help but laugh.
I imagine the US has tried very hard to actually find something but come up blank.
The lack of trust will persist for a time in the US but Huawei has already won over large swathes of the world and as long as they don't get stained by some scandal, they will probably swing opinion around at some point.
Richard Yu even went off script at his CES keynote and actually showed some feeling. He obviously feels the US is behaving very unfairly.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/9/16871538/huawei-ces-2018-event-ceo-richard-yu-keynote-speech
It is rumoured that Apple pays Huawei millions every year as the net result of IP cross licencing, with Apple supposedly using IP resulting from almost 800 Huawei patents while Huawei has access to Apple IP covered by around 80 patents. Huawei has global R&D centres and invests around 10% of total revenue to that end. That puts the IP theft part into a little more context even if there may be cases (industry wide).
Second, it doesn't work as well as you'd think. Our kitchen was a dead spot so we bought a second Airport Extreme and, with help from Apple telephone support, set it up as an extender to cover that side of the house.
The problem is that even though it's all one network with a common SSID, it's still seen by devices as two separate transmission points, and the device has to decide which one it wants to connect to. So, if I'm doing something in the living room and walk into the kitchen, the device may or may not switch over and connect to the second transmitter. Most of the time it just tries to cling to the signal from the living room.
So no, adding a second Airport is not the same or as good as a mesh system.
Apple AP products do not offer mesh networking.
To be clear, I have been happy with all my Apple AP products, though at present I use a Mesh product (Apmlifi as mentioned above).
This Christmas they got my AirPort Extreme AC Base Station. I was able to retire all the extenders because the new(wish) AP Base Station was able to get full signal bars as measured by a MBP through their whole house. For the two-story, single lot home my parents live in, the modern(ish) AirPort base Station does fine.
I opted for a mesh setup to cover a two-lot-wide network as I described above.
There is no apparent down-side to my Amplifi mesh setup and I have a much greater range.
Its probably because mesh network equipment is typically marketed as EXTENDING the reach of your network. To a non-technical person, its seems like an obviously interchangeable term.