All I see is an opportunity for US solar research and innovation to get a chance now. I find it quite ironic how any political posts on this site have usually no-commenting allowed yet they're so biased it riles people up. *sigh* If only impartial reporting truly existed online nowadays.
I have no idea why solar panels are a right wing, left wing issue. They either work, or they dont. They work. Given that they work thats great, I imagine.
If the idea is to promote American solar panels, well enough.
We fought this battle back in the 70's & 80's trying to protect American Steel... Now the Mon river is lined with beautiful trees instead of ugly steel mills... Well, there are a few ghettos along the way: Homestead, Braddock, McKeesport, Dravosburg, Clairiton.... Globalization & free trade did not kill those mills, it was a response to their death after they were killed by foreign competition -- and it was a key part in rejuvenating a failing economy.
Protectionism didn't work then. It won't work now no matter how loud we chant USA! USA! USA!...
Does not compute. Foreign competition would have been an early form of protectionism.
I have no idea why solar panels are a right wing, left wing issue. They either work, or they dont. They work. Given that they work thats great, I imagine.
If the idea is to promote American solar panels, well enough.
It works so well that Germany has to sell its solar energy at a loss. I do not support tariffs, but the cruel & evil ways the Obama admin treated clean coal makes me like this .
I agree with some of the posters here. I’m not convinced this tax is going to hurt the solar industry in the bigger picture, nor will I be convinced that encouraging local production is a bad thing just because someone labels it ‘protectionism’. Whether you’re a globalist or not, encouraging local production and taking action to support it should never been seen as an inherently bad thing. Weigh the entire situation and look at the pros and cons. A temporary struggle due to higher prices (i.e. tariff) may very well produce long term growth.
I have no idea why solar panels are a right wing, left wing issue. They either work, or they dont. They work. Given that they work thats great, I imagine.
If the idea is to promote American solar panels, well enough.
I agree - -they do work. And I think there is a place for the government to support the basic research needed to make them work better. I also think that there can sometimes be cases where it makes sense for the government to intervene to support American industry and workers, particularly when other governments (like China) have policies that distort market prices.
I just don’t think those are quite the issues in play here.
All I see is an opportunity for US solar research and innovation to get a chance now. I find it quite ironic how any political posts on this site have usually no-commenting allowed yet they're so biased it riles people up. *sigh* If only impartial reporting truly existed online nowadays.
I have no idea why solar panels are a right wing, left wing issue. They either work, or they dont. They work. Given that they work thats great, I imagine.
If the idea is to promote American solar panels, well enough.
I appreciate that this political article is open for discussion... If we behave ourselves, it will stay open for reasoned discussion.
Regardless of what you think about the tariff, you can't help but note the irony of the contradicting arguments being made by the same people on the left.
First of all a tariff is a tax. It is a tax on an import. Point blank no way around it. Like all taxes, it changes the price of that item.
So basically when you talk about anyone on the left about taxes the argument is that it will just be passed along and be baked in and become part of doing business and it won't change any decisions or alter any economic outcomes. That is always the reasoning unless of course you talk about tariffs or sin taxes in which case all economic activity will clearly lower or stop if that is the desire.
So tax cigarettes, soda or solar panels and of course people will buy fewer of those and it will have an economic impact.
Tax income, investments, savings and of course sales tax....well that won't alter anything. People will just do what they have to do and life will be the same.
Does anyone not notice the irony here?
Trump just CUT the corporate tax rate from 35% to 20%. We are told this is just blowing a hole in the budget and no corporation is really going to make any decision different than they would have before. The rich will just get richer and the the poor will be unable to be helped by the government and corporations will keep more of their money and everyone else will suffer.
Take that 35% rate and make it a 30% tariff and suddenly everyone seems to understand......wait prices will go up. People will make different decisions based on those prices. They may even forgo the economic activity all together or may shift it to different countries where there isn't a 30% tariff raising prices. The increases in price will TRICKLE DOWN and put all sorts of installers, support techs and small businesses out of work or at a minimum it will harm them.
I just can't understand the blind spot here. The reasoning is the same in both cases. If you think the Trump tariffs are wrong because they will distort the market, cause all manner of unintended and harmful consequences and won't actually alter any outcomes then....welcome to fiscal conservativism because if you apply this to the rest of our economy now with your opened eyes then you finally get it.
I'm fairly sure most informed people on the left understand how tariffs work, they are after all a protectionist tool favoured by the left. But what people are criticising here is that a government that claims it doesn't want to pick winners and losers has clearly decided it will favour coal over solar. A tariff is not a sales tax, it's a tax targeted at one industry. This isn't about creating jobs, it's about repaying favours to donors.
By chance, I believe they might have stumbled into an ok policy in my book - the Chinese have been dumping panels in recent years and there is a lot to be said for making sure the country can produce its own electricity generation equipment, not to mention preventing the country from falling behind in terms of technology creation.
But what people are criticising here is that a government that claims it doesn't want to pick winners and losers has clearly decided it will favour coal over solar. A tariff is not a sales tax, it's a tax targeted at one industry. This isn't about creating jobs, it's about repaying favours to donors.
Actually this administration has said it supports American businesses so this is in line with it's previous statements.
Regardless of what you think about the tariff, you can't help but note the irony of the contradicting arguments being made by the same people on the left.
First of all a tariff is a tax. It is a tax on an import. Point blank no way around it. Like all taxes, it changes the price of that item.
So basically when you talk about anyone on the left about taxes the argument is that it will just be passed along and be baked in and become part of doing business and it won't change any decisions or alter any economic outcomes. That is always the reasoning unless of course you talk about tariffs or sin taxes in which case all economic activity will clearly lower or stop if that is the desire.
So tax cigarettes, soda or solar panels and of course people will buy fewer of those and it will have an economic impact.
Tax income, investments, savings and of course sales tax....well that won't alter anything. People will just do what they have to do and life will be the same.
Does anyone not notice the irony here?
Trump just CUT the corporate tax rate from 35% to 20%. We are told this is just blowing a hole in the budget and no corporation is really going to make any decision different than they would have before. The rich will just get richer and the the poor will be unable to be helped by the government and corporations will keep more of their money and everyone else will suffer.
Take that 35% rate and make it a 30% tariff and suddenly everyone seems to understand......wait prices will go up. People will make different decisions based on those prices. They may even forgo the economic activity all together or may shift it to different countries where there isn't a 30% tariff raising prices. The increases in price will TRICKLE DOWN and put all sorts of installers, support techs and small businesses out of work or at a minimum it will harm them.
I just can't understand the blind spot here. The reasoning is the same in both cases. If you think the Trump tariffs are wrong because they will distort the market, cause all manner of unintended and harmful consequences and won't actually alter any outcomes then....welcome to fiscal conservativism because if you apply this to the rest of our economy now with your opened eyes then you finally get it.
Because you pass profits to shareholders and costs to consumers.
There is no blind spot.
Fiscal conservatives reject your abduction of the term but since you guys have successfully taken the entire party on this joyride nobody will care.
Im mostly leaving the market (as is seriously adjusting the asset mix) well before midterms and I never try to time markets. At most I lose a few months growth.
I don't think these tariffs are really about solar cells or washing machines...
Rather, they are a statement that the US will not accept unfair trade policies.
Precisely. China routinely subsidizes their own takeover of entire industries and dumps technology and raw materials into markets to destroy competitors. The US should simply impose the identical heavy regulations and requirements on China in US markets that THEY THEMSELVES place on US companies which attempt to play in Chinese markets. Those companies must hire Chinese labor, transfer technologies and patents used to China and other massively unfair practices. IMO, China should never have been allowed into the WTO.
And we're done here, because despite two admonishments, there are still a lot of problems with commenters not obeying the forum rules.
If you can't see your comment, re-read the new commenting guidelines. They apply to you, whether or not you want them to. If you don't agree with them, you don't have to stay. If you have questions about them, feel free to DM me about it and I will have a civil discussion with you about it.
Comments
If the idea is to promote American solar panels, well enough.
Does not compute. Foreign competition would have been an early form of protectionism.
I do not support tariffs, but the cruel & evil ways the Obama admin treated clean coal makes me like this .
I just don’t think those are quite the issues in play here.
By chance, I believe they might have stumbled into an ok policy in my book - the Chinese have been dumping panels in recent years and there is a lot to be said for making sure the country can produce its own electricity generation equipment, not to mention preventing the country from falling behind in terms of technology creation.
There is no blind spot.
Fiscal conservatives reject your abduction of the term but since you guys have successfully taken the entire party on this joyride nobody will care.
Im mostly leaving the market (as is seriously adjusting the asset mix) well before midterms and I never try to time markets. At most I lose a few months growth.
http://www.energyjustice.net/nuclear
If you can't see your comment, re-read the new commenting guidelines. They apply to you, whether or not you want them to. If you don't agree with them, you don't have to stay. If you have questions about them, feel free to DM me about it and I will have a civil discussion with you about it.