Sonos fires back at Apple's HomePod by offering a pair of One speakers for $349

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 77
    robbyxrobbyx Posts: 479member
    robbyx said:
    mike1 said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    "Apple can’t compete with Sonos."

    Hah! Famous last words. Just ask Blackberry and Amazon how well the phone biz is working out for them now. What was the market share of every MP3 player compared to the iPod?

    It's good that Sonos appears to not share your opinion. They do have a lot to worry about. The industry's best-run and most successful HARDWARE company just decided to play in their sandbox. So, this is probably a smart defensive move to keep their dealers happy for a few more minutes.

    As they've done before, I'd bet Apple opens up HomePod to 3rd parties gradually. I believe you'll see more music and other services offered soon. Maybe even announced at WWDC this year.

    That said, I believe Sonos doesn't think this is a "no-brainer" and may or may not survive or grow by going in directions that Apple is not. Can their "better" stuff support the business with decreased sales of their entry-level product? I don't know, but it looks like they may find out.


    Hate to break it to you, but Apple already tried to play in the high end speaker sandbox and we all know how well the iPod HiFi sold.  Don’t be so cocky. Everything Apple touches isn’t a guaranteed success and HomePod offers no stand out features.

    And no, Apple can’t compete with Sonos.  I’m not saying that HomePod is a bad product. I’m sure it sounds great. But it’s one product. Sonos offers a range of products from simple Wi-Fi speakers like HomePod to soundbars and subs for home theater setups to speakerless boxes that either connect to an existing home stereo or drive TRUE high end speakers of the consumer’s choice. Apple offers none of this. So no, they can’t compete with Sonos. 
    You keep moving the goalposts. You say Apple "can't compete with Sonos" because Sonos has other products in different product categories -- like home theater components. Ok, well Apple has other products in different product categories too, and together that portfolio thumps everyone's earnings. So what are you talking about?

    As for the iPod HiFi, trying to compare them is like trying to compare the iPhone to the Motorola Rockr. both phones, yes, but quite silly to suggest theyre the same or that the success of the Rockr has a factor on the iPhone. 
    Of course Apple can compete, speaker to speaker.  But they can't compete in terms of being able to deliver a complete audio solution the way Sonos can.  As for HomePod versus Sonos One, I'm sure HomePod will sound better, but for the same price I can buy two Sonos One speakers, link them, have true stereo (which I suspect will sound better than a single HomePod if for no other reason than it's true stereo), use a variety of supported services, and choose my assistant.

    iPod HiFi is a valid comparison.  There was nothing special about the HiFi compared to the competition.  The same is happening now with HomePod.  It offers nothing compelling over a variety of other choices.


  • Reply 62 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    robbyx said:
    robbyx said:
    mike1 said:
    robbyx said:
    somebody’s worried about being fitbitted...

    the Sonos One is a single-channel speaker. funny nobody had panic attacks about it being mono...yet now people are upset at the multi-channel HP and its seven drivers!
    Sonos has nothing to worry about. Apple doesn’t offer a range of speakers like Sonos.  Everyone is comparing the entry level Sonos offerings to HomePod, but Sonos offers far better speakers than the Sonos One or Play:1. I guarantee the HomePod doesn’t come close to a Play:5, much less two Play:5 speakers linked together, a feature Apple promised and delayed.

    Of course none of these speakers will satisfy a true “audiophile” (I’m not talking about the sudden crop of overnight “audiophiles” eagerly awaiting HomePod as if no other good speaker exists). Thankfully Sonos has true audiophiles covered with the Connect and Connect:Amp options. One connects to your existing home stereo systems to play music through legitimate high end speakers. The other provides an amp so no home stereo system is necessary.

    Apple can’t compete with Sonos. They simply don’t offer what Sonos does, no matter how good HomePod sounds.  Discounting and bundling the Sonos One is a smart move. It steals a bit of Apple’s thunder (not that there’s much thunder around HomePod’s delayed and feature incomplete release), plus highlights just how weak Apple’s offering is compared to Sonos.

    Let’s see, I can get one speaker with a half-baked voice assistant that supports a single music service...or two speakers that can link to create true stereo output, that work with numerous music services (including the only one supported by HomePod), and allow me to use a variety of voice assistants.  Seems like a no brainer to me. 
    "Apple can’t compete with Sonos."

    Hah! Famous last words. Just ask Blackberry and Amazon how well the phone biz is working out for them now. What was the market share of every MP3 player compared to the iPod?

    It's good that Sonos appears to not share your opinion. They do have a lot to worry about. The industry's best-run and most successful HARDWARE company just decided to play in their sandbox. So, this is probably a smart defensive move to keep their dealers happy for a few more minutes.

    As they've done before, I'd bet Apple opens up HomePod to 3rd parties gradually. I believe you'll see more music and other services offered soon. Maybe even announced at WWDC this year.

    That said, I believe Sonos doesn't think this is a "no-brainer" and may or may not survive or grow by going in directions that Apple is not. Can their "better" stuff support the business with decreased sales of their entry-level product? I don't know, but it looks like they may find out.


    Hate to break it to you, but Apple already tried to play in the high end speaker sandbox and we all know how well the iPod HiFi sold.  Don’t be so cocky. Everything Apple touches isn’t a guaranteed success and HomePod offers no stand out features.

    And no, Apple can’t compete with Sonos.  I’m not saying that HomePod is a bad product. I’m sure it sounds great. But it’s one product. Sonos offers a range of products from simple Wi-Fi speakers like HomePod to soundbars and subs for home theater setups to speakerless boxes that either connect to an existing home stereo or drive TRUE high end speakers of the consumer’s choice. Apple offers none of this. So no, they can’t compete with Sonos. 
    You keep moving the goalposts. You say Apple "can't compete with Sonos" because Sonos has other products in different product categories -- like home theater components. Ok, well Apple has other products in different product categories too, and together that portfolio thumps everyone's earnings. So what are you talking about?

    As for the iPod HiFi, trying to compare them is like trying to compare the iPhone to the Motorola Rockr. both phones, yes, but quite silly to suggest theyre the same or that the success of the Rockr has a factor on the iPhone. 
    Of course Apple can compete, speaker to speaker.  But they can't compete in terms of being able to deliver a complete audio solution the way Sonos can.  As for HomePod versus Sonos One, I'm sure HomePod will sound better, but for the same price I can buy two Sonos One speakers, link them, have true stereo (which I suspect will sound better than a single HomePod if for no other reason than it's true stereo), use a variety of supported services, and choose my assistant.

    iPod HiFi is a valid comparison.  There was nothing special about the HiFi compared to the competition.  The same is happening now with HomePod.  It offers nothing compelling over a variety of other choices.
    HomePod and the iPod Hi-FI are not direct comparisons, but that also doesn't mean they can't be compared. That, however, is where my agreement with you ends.

    The iPod Hi-Fi was an accessory item for the iPod. A better Apple device-to-device comparison would be the Apple Watch because it requires an iPhone to use, just as the iPod Hi-Fi required an iPod to use. The HomePod is not an accessory, but its own product category. You don't need to own another Apple product to use it, and any argument that it'll mostly be purchased by people who own a lot of other Apple products or that its best when paired with other Apple products is irrelevant.

    It also clearly does things that are not offered in any other device on the market. Whether you find them "compelling" is irrelevant, but you could make an argument that the disruptive technology that Apple is banking on with the HomePod isn't compelling enough for the masses… but if you go in with just your personal feelings your argument will come across as monotone.
    GG1
  • Reply 63 of 77
    22july201322july2013 Posts: 3,564member
    More competition is always welcome, whether it's from Apple, Sonos, or anyone else. The consumer always wins. Different products are for different people. For me, I don't have any existing speakers in my house other than what's built into my Macs, so the HomePod is a very attractive option. If you've got expensive speakers already, then maybe Sonos has some better products for you to make your existing speakers stream your audio sources. People shouldn't knock someone's product by saying it's useless, bad or ugly. It is what it is and some people will buy it. Each product from each company has certain advantages. My whole life I've hated wiring up speakers so I look forward to getting a wireless speaker, and I certainly like the simplicity of Apple's HomePod approach which self-configures itself. So I'm inclined to order one.
  • Reply 64 of 77
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,350member
    More competition is always welcome, whether it's from Apple, Sonos, or anyone else. The consumer always wins. Different products are for different people. 
    Agree completely.


    22july2013 said:
    People shouldn't knock someone's product by saying it's useless, bad or ugly. 
    But unfortunately, that's what some people do. It's what makes them happy. They are projecting biased, subjective opinion as though it were fact. They may even believe it themselves, but most importantly they want others to believe it. Not because they might be correct, but because it's important to get validation.

    As it's pejorative by nature it's also a form of bullying, rooted in insecurity. And as an argumentative (not discussion) tool it often puts the user's perceived victim on the defensive. Objectivity is often the first casualty of 'discussion'. It frequently ties with truth in that honor.
    muthuk_vanalingamavon b7
  • Reply 65 of 77
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here. I've got a truck load of Apple and Sonos products (family of 4 with iPhones, iPads, MBPs, iMac, Mac Mini, ATVs, Airport Extreme & Express as well as 2 Sonos PlayBars and 8 Play:1s). I'm a huge fan of Apple products (clearly) and, if Apple or anyone had had something comparable to the Sonos products in terms of build quality, sound quality and ease of setup I'd have checked it out...but no one did. And the Sonos products DO have great build quality, good sound quality (for my needs) and, in my thorough experience, were as easy to setup as any Apple product (barring the super-easy ATV 4th gen & 4K - still can't believe how easy those were). The Sonos app is a bit muddled, but honestly no worse than Apple's Music app. I think Sonos struggles with trying to make its app interface common across all of the services it supports AND provide easy/intuitive multi-room support - it's far from terrible, but could certainly be improved. 

    In terms of who can or cannot complete with whom...who cares. Per the post above, competition is GREAT for the consumer, driving better products and lower pricing. 

    One thing I'd love to know about the HomePod is to what extent I can use it as a conference/speaker phone. Specifically using not just the Phone app (i.e. good ol' cellular) but also apps like Skype & Intercall MobileMeet? As I understand it the HP won't support "apps" per se, but would allow Hand-Off (but not full Continuity) at launch, but as I work from a home office and am on calls 3-6 hours per day, 5 days per week, I'd love a great sounding speaker phone with multiple mics for improved sound quality on both ends of the call. However, since a lot of the work I do is in different countries I tend to use Skype for Business and MobileMeet a fair bit as their VOIP offerings are significantly cheaper than calling Europe from Canada the old fashioned way.

    I've been using my AirPods for my conference calls for the last 13 months which *are* great (seriously, probably the BEST product I've purchased in YEARS), but would prefer to have something like a HP instead. Whomever gets one first (again, I'm in Canada, so I'm not getting one just yet...argh!), can you try some of this out and report back? Very curious...

    Cheers...
  • Reply 66 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here. I've got a truck load of Apple and Sonos products (family of 4 with iPhones, iPads, MBPs, iMac, Mac Mini, ATVs, Airport Extreme & Express as well as 2 Sonos PlayBars and 8 Play:1s). I'm a huge fan of Apple products (clearly) and, if Apple or anyone had had something comparable to the Sonos products in terms of build quality, sound quality and ease of setup I'd have checked it out...but no one did. And the Sonos products DO have great build quality, good sound quality (for my needs) and, in my thorough experience, were as easy to setup as any Apple product (barring the super-easy ATV 4th gen & 4K - still can't believe how easy those were). The Sonos app is a bit muddled, but honestly no worse than Apple's Music app. I think Sonos struggles with trying to make its app interface common across all of the services it supports AND provide easy/intuitive multi-room support - it's far from terrible, but could certainly be improved. 

    In terms of who can or cannot complete with whom...who cares. Per the post above, competition is GREAT for the consumer, driving better products and lower pricing. 

    One thing I'd love to know about the HomePod is to what extent I can use it as a conference/speaker phone. Specifically using not just the Phone app (i.e. good ol' cellular) but also apps like Skype & Intercall MobileMeet? As I understand it the HP won't support "apps" per se, but would allow Hand-Off (but not full Continuity) at launch, but as I work from a home office and am on calls 3-6 hours per day, 5 days per week, I'd love a great sounding speaker phone with multiple mics for improved sound quality on both ends of the call. However, since a lot of the work I do is in different countries I tend to use Skype for Business and MobileMeet a fair bit as their VOIP offerings are significantly cheaper than calling Europe from Canada the old fashioned way.

    I've been using my AirPods for my conference calls for the last 13 months which *are* great (seriously, probably the BEST product I've purchased in YEARS), but would prefer to have something like a HP instead. Whomever gets one first (again, I'm in Canada, so I'm not getting one just yet...argh!), can you try some of this out and report back? Very curious...

    Cheers…
    Apple fans seem to love Sonos before 1) Apple decided to make a home speaker, and 2) Sonos decided to integrate Alexa into their Sonos One product.
  • Reply 67 of 77
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here.
    Until about, oh I dunno maybe 8 months or so ago, Sonos was pretty well liked around here. Don't know what happened....
  • Reply 68 of 77
    gatorguy said:
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here.
    Until about, oh I dunno maybe 8 months or so ago, Sonos was pretty well liked around here. Don't know what happened....
    Yeah, good point (you too Soli)...Still, I'd rather have both and options available to me rather than just one or the other...
  • Reply 69 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,310member
    gatorguy said:
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here.
    Until about, oh I dunno maybe 8 months or so ago, Sonos was pretty well liked around here. Don't know what happened....
    Your context is that it was the very same people that liked the Sonos then that hate Sonos now. I'm skeptical of that, but it may be true.

    I had no opinion on the Sonos one way or the other, and I don't own any, but it's pretty obvious from the initial reviews of the HomePod that I have read, that Sonos is going to have to up its game beyond a discount for a pair of speakers.

    Serenity Calwell has listened to the HomePod, and is answering questions on twitter. I would argue that she is especially qualified to do a review of the HomePod because she competes in Roller Derby.

    https://twitter.com/settern?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.asymco.com/


  • Reply 70 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here.
    Until about, oh I dunno maybe 8 months or so ago, Sonos was pretty well liked around here. Don't know what happened....
    Your context is that it was the very same people that liked the Sonos then that hate Sonos now. I'm skeptical of that, but it may be true.

    I had no opinion on the Sonos one way or the other, and I don't own any, but it's pretty obvious from the initial reviews of the HomePod that I have read, that Sonos is going to have to up its game beyond a discount for a pair of speakers.

    Serenity Calwell has listened to the HomePod, and is answering questions on twitter. I would argue that she is especially qualified to do a review of the HomePod because she competes in Roller Derby.

    https://twitter.com/settern?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.asymco.com/
    Short-term could also bring more sales to Sonos. It's a product category mindshare halo effect that causes that lesser known competitors and product categories that were either unimportant to or off a customer's radar completely to suddenly to be something they're willing to discuss, consider, and purchase when a company with extensive mindshare enters the market.

    We saw Blackberry nee Research in Motion, along with other smartphone companies, get a boost when the iPhone was introduced. We saw smartwatches take off and fitness tracker sales increase once Apple introduced the Watch. There may have even been a spike in Bluetooth headphones once AirPods were launched (but that could also be argued because Apple moved to a Lightning connector, even though they included a 3.5mm jack adapter that added an extra a few extra inches to your headphone cable).

    So far, those haven't lasted very long before Apple became the dominate force, but it also doesn't mean that they necessarily have to fail; especially in this market where we're talking smart speakers. Just like with Android sailing smoothly behind Apple's wake in the modern smartphone OS market, Sonos could easily adopt Google Home and/or Alexa to be the Samsung of the smartphone speaker (if that doesn't fall to Amazon).

    I certainly don't think that everyone is going to trade-in great sounding home entertainment systems that they spent thousands of dollars on, or get rid of the many low-cost digital personal assistants simply because Apple has a single… $350… speaker… with Siri.
    edited January 2018 gatorguy
  • Reply 71 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,310member
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here.
    Until about, oh I dunno maybe 8 months or so ago, Sonos was pretty well liked around here. Don't know what happened....
    Your context is that it was the very same people that liked the Sonos then that hate Sonos now. I'm skeptical of that, but it may be true.

    I had no opinion on the Sonos one way or the other, and I don't own any, but it's pretty obvious from the initial reviews of the HomePod that I have read, that Sonos is going to have to up its game beyond a discount for a pair of speakers.

    Serenity Calwell has listened to the HomePod, and is answering questions on twitter. I would argue that she is especially qualified to do a review of the HomePod because she competes in Roller Derby.

    https://twitter.com/settern?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.asymco.com/
    Short-term could also bring more sales to Sonos. It's a product category mindshare halo effect that causes that lesser known competitors and product categories that were either unimportant to or off a customer's radar completely to suddenly to be something they're willing to discuss, consider, and purchase when a company with extensive mindshare enters the market.

    We saw Blackberry nee Research in Motion, along with other smartphone companies, get a boost when the iPhone was introduced. We saw smartwatches take off and fitness tracker sales increase once Apple introduced the Watch. There may have even been a spike in Bluetooth headphones once AirPods were launched (but that could also be argued because Apple moved to a Lightning connector, even though they included a 3.5mm jack adapter that added an extra a few extra inches to your headphone cable).

    So far, those haven't lasted very long before Apple became the dominate force, but it also doesn't mean that they necessarily have to fail; especially in this market where we're talking smart speakers. Just like with Android sailing smoothly behind Apple's wake in the modern smartphone OS market, Sonos could easily adopt Google Home and/or Alexa to be the Samsung of the smartphone speaker (if that doesn't fall to Amazon).

    I certainly don't think that everyone is going to trade-in great sounding home entertainment systems that they spent thousands of dollars on, or get rid of the many low-cost digital personal assistants simply because Apple has a single… $350… speaker… with Siri.
    First of all, Amazon has already exceeded unit sales of Sonos. Similarly, Google already has an offering on the high end, and both Amazon and Google will now be throwing even more resources at the high end should Apple show success with the HomePod. Apple, Amazon, Google, Samsung, and MS, all have voice assistants, giving them a home field advantage with these products. 

    Pray tell, how is Sonos going to compete against all of these companies? Are they going to standout merely my supporting as many voice assistants as possible, or are they going to be able to create a device to compete directly with HomePod and the rest of the high end devices that are, or will, become available?

    As an aside, I would see Apple users split between Echo and HomePod more so than using Google Home; there's quite a bit of overlap between Amazon Prime users and iOS users.
    edited January 2018
  • Reply 72 of 77
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Soli said:
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here. I've got a truck load of Apple and Sonos products (family of 4 with iPhones, iPads, MBPs, iMac, Mac Mini, ATVs, Airport Extreme & Express as well as 2 Sonos PlayBars and 8 Play:1s). I'm a huge fan of Apple products (clearly) and, if Apple or anyone had had something comparable to the Sonos products in terms of build quality, sound quality and ease of setup I'd have checked it out...but no one did. And the Sonos products DO have great build quality, good sound quality (for my needs) and, in my thorough experience, were as easy to setup as any Apple product (barring the super-easy ATV 4th gen & 4K - still can't believe how easy those were). The Sonos app is a bit muddled, but honestly no worse than Apple's Music app. I think Sonos struggles with trying to make its app interface common across all of the services it supports AND provide easy/intuitive multi-room support - it's far from terrible, but could certainly be improved. 

    In terms of who can or cannot complete with whom...who cares. Per the post above, competition is GREAT for the consumer, driving better products and lower pricing. 

    One thing I'd love to know about the HomePod is to what extent I can use it as a conference/speaker phone. Specifically using not just the Phone app (i.e. good ol' cellular) but also apps like Skype & Intercall MobileMeet? As I understand it the HP won't support "apps" per se, but would allow Hand-Off (but not full Continuity) at launch, but as I work from a home office and am on calls 3-6 hours per day, 5 days per week, I'd love a great sounding speaker phone with multiple mics for improved sound quality on both ends of the call. However, since a lot of the work I do is in different countries I tend to use Skype for Business and MobileMeet a fair bit as their VOIP offerings are significantly cheaper than calling Europe from Canada the old fashioned way.

    I've been using my AirPods for my conference calls for the last 13 months which *are* great (seriously, probably the BEST product I've purchased in YEARS), but would prefer to have something like a HP instead. Whomever gets one first (again, I'm in Canada, so I'm not getting one just yet...argh!), can you try some of this out and report back? Very curious...

    Cheers…
    Apple fans seem to love Sonos before 1) Apple decided to make a home speaker, and 2) Sonos decided to integrate Alexa into their Sonos One product.
    There is no hate, it is a straw man. The argument usually is that Apple is to late because Alexa / speaker already own the market. Sonos is just a bystander in that argument.
    That's the argument I hear all day long from a certain crowd online (but somehow not outside in the real world).

    Where Sonos enters the equation is people saying can't possibly compete with them? Why exactly? Speakers are not magic and Sonos is just offering a slight tech spin to a normal speaker.

    Who else can offer an even tech spin to Sonos... Well, the tech spinner in chief, Apple. Putting a new spin on some already "settled" way of doing things has always been their specialty.

    They're playing in the same field and Apple simply has more tools to cater to the same crowd, or even expand it.

    Sonos's problem is that they'll be caught in a sandtrap between Alexa going after their low end and Apple and its tech at the high end.
    They'll be killed from both sides.
    If you play in the affordable luxury playing field (in any capacity), your industry is always a potential target for Apple.
  • Reply 73 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here.
    Until about, oh I dunno maybe 8 months or so ago, Sonos was pretty well liked around here. Don't know what happened....
    Your context is that it was the very same people that liked the Sonos then that hate Sonos now. I'm skeptical of that, but it may be true.

    I had no opinion on the Sonos one way or the other, and I don't own any, but it's pretty obvious from the initial reviews of the HomePod that I have read, that Sonos is going to have to up its game beyond a discount for a pair of speakers.

    Serenity Calwell has listened to the HomePod, and is answering questions on twitter. I would argue that she is especially qualified to do a review of the HomePod because she competes in Roller Derby.

    https://twitter.com/settern?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.asymco.com/
    Short-term could also bring more sales to Sonos. It's a product category mindshare halo effect that causes that lesser known competitors and product categories that were either unimportant to or off a customer's radar completely to suddenly to be something they're willing to discuss, consider, and purchase when a company with extensive mindshare enters the market.

    We saw Blackberry nee Research in Motion, along with other smartphone companies, get a boost when the iPhone was introduced. We saw smartwatches take off and fitness tracker sales increase once Apple introduced the Watch. There may have even been a spike in Bluetooth headphones once AirPods were launched (but that could also be argued because Apple moved to a Lightning connector, even though they included a 3.5mm jack adapter that added an extra a few extra inches to your headphone cable).

    So far, those haven't lasted very long before Apple became the dominate force, but it also doesn't mean that they necessarily have to fail; especially in this market where we're talking smart speakers. Just like with Android sailing smoothly behind Apple's wake in the modern smartphone OS market, Sonos could easily adopt Google Home and/or Alexa to be the Samsung of the smartphone speaker (if that doesn't fall to Amazon).

    I certainly don't think that everyone is going to trade-in great sounding home entertainment systems that they spent thousands of dollars on, or get rid of the many low-cost digital personal assistants simply because Apple has a single… $350… speaker… with Siri.
    First of all, Amazon has already exceeded unit sales of Sonos. Similarly, Google already has an offering on the high end, and both Amazon and Google will now be throwing even more resources at the high end should Apple show success with the HomePod. Apple, Amazon, Google, Samsung, and MS, all have voice assistants, giving them a home field advantage with these products. 

    Pray tell, how is Sonos going to compete against all of these companies? Are they going to standout merely my supporting as many voice assistants as possible, or are they going to be able to create a device to compete directly with HomePod and the rest of the high end devices that are, or will, become available?

    As an aside, I would see Apple users split between Echo and HomePod more so than using Google Home; there's quite a bit of overlap between Amazon Prime users and iOS users.
    Nothing you wrote makes any sense to me in the context of my post so I can't even begin to pick it apart until it's written to conform to this reality.
    avon b7
  • Reply 74 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,310member
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here.
    Until about, oh I dunno maybe 8 months or so ago, Sonos was pretty well liked around here. Don't know what happened....
    Your context is that it was the very same people that liked the Sonos then that hate Sonos now. I'm skeptical of that, but it may be true.

    I had no opinion on the Sonos one way or the other, and I don't own any, but it's pretty obvious from the initial reviews of the HomePod that I have read, that Sonos is going to have to up its game beyond a discount for a pair of speakers.

    Serenity Calwell has listened to the HomePod, and is answering questions on twitter. I would argue that she is especially qualified to do a review of the HomePod because she competes in Roller Derby.

    https://twitter.com/settern?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.asymco.com/
    Short-term could also bring more sales to Sonos. It's a product category mindshare halo effect that causes that lesser known competitors and product categories that were either unimportant to or off a customer's radar completely to suddenly to be something they're willing to discuss, consider, and purchase when a company with extensive mindshare enters the market.

    We saw Blackberry nee Research in Motion, along with other smartphone companies, get a boost when the iPhone was introduced. We saw smartwatches take off and fitness tracker sales increase once Apple introduced the Watch. There may have even been a spike in Bluetooth headphones once AirPods were launched (but that could also be argued because Apple moved to a Lightning connector, even though they included a 3.5mm jack adapter that added an extra a few extra inches to your headphone cable).

    So far, those haven't lasted very long before Apple became the dominate force, but it also doesn't mean that they necessarily have to fail; especially in this market where we're talking smart speakers. Just like with Android sailing smoothly behind Apple's wake in the modern smartphone OS market, Sonos could easily adopt Google Home and/or Alexa to be the Samsung of the smartphone speaker (if that doesn't fall to Amazon).

    I certainly don't think that everyone is going to trade-in great sounding home entertainment systems that they spent thousands of dollars on, or get rid of the many low-cost digital personal assistants simply because Apple has a single… $350… speaker… with Siri.
    First of all, Amazon has already exceeded unit sales of Sonos. Similarly, Google already has an offering on the high end, and both Amazon and Google will now be throwing even more resources at the high end should Apple show success with the HomePod. Apple, Amazon, Google, Samsung, and MS, all have voice assistants, giving them a home field advantage with these products. 

    Pray tell, how is Sonos going to compete against all of these companies? Are they going to standout merely my supporting as many voice assistants as possible, or are they going to be able to create a device to compete directly with HomePod and the rest of the high end devices that are, or will, become available?

    As an aside, I would see Apple users split between Echo and HomePod more so than using Google Home; there's quite a bit of overlap between Amazon Prime users and iOS users.
    Nothing you wrote makes any sense to me in the context of my post so I can't even begin to pick it apart until it's written to conform to this reality.
    Fair enough.

    https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/19/amazon-echo-sonos-google-home-wifi-smart-speaker-sales-apple-homepod/

    Why should Sonos exist? Just to be the "Switzerland" of smart speakers?

    https://www.theverge.com/2017/2/14/14596904/sonos-ceo-alexa-smart-home-outdoor-speakers-patrick-spence-interview

    Do you really think that Amazon and Google aren't looking at Sonos as a hardware competitor? Do you think that Amazon and Google won't come out with a speaker to compete with the HomePod on sound quality, and by definition, force Sonos to do the same?
    edited January 2018
  • Reply 75 of 77
    tmay said:
    https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/19/amazon-echo-sonos-google-home-wifi-smart-speaker-sales-apple-homepod/

    Why should Sonos exist? Just to be the "Switzerland" of smart speakers?

    Not sure I can agree with that - Sonos' market isn't "smart speakers" - it's home audio which includes a very limited and recent foray into the smart speaker segment with the ONE. Sonos has 8 or 10 other products NOT related to smart speakers and in specific areas of home audio (like home theatre) that Apple isn't targeting, at least not yet. So I don't see Sonos remotely as the Switzerland of smart speakers or caught in between Google/Amazon at the low end and Apple at the high end. They are that, but they're also competing with others, like Bose, in the home theatre spectrum. And their "tech spin" on an existing product is a great one - fully sync'd home audio using Wifi rather than BT (and the traditional lags that hurt BT response and make synchronization extremely difficult). Could someone else do the same? Sure, but no one is, at least not yet and certainly not as well as Sonos is.

    So, for the time being, Sonos is more a home audio super power than the Switzerland of smart speakers. 

    In the long run, if Apple nails AirPlay2 with the right software features as well as putting together some additional hardware for home theatre use, then no question that Apple will leave rubble in their wake. However, that don't preclude Sonos from continuing to do well in the short term and look to expand and/or partner into another piece of the audio market in the future.

    Should Sonos be scared? Definitely. They've got a pretty good thing going right now, but like anyone doing well, they need to be looking to the future, not the past or present. Sonos needs to figure out "what's next for Sonos" and not try to keep the status quo (ala MS in the 90s and BB in the 00s).

    That being said, I've thought for years that an Apple/Sonos partnership would be great for both companies...however, when the ONE came out with non-Apple assistant support that seemed to quickly deflate. 
  • Reply 76 of 77
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here.
    Until about, oh I dunno maybe 8 months or so ago, Sonos was pretty well liked around here. Don't know what happened....
    Your context is that it was the very same people that liked the Sonos then that hate Sonos now. I'm skeptical of that, but it may be true.

    I had no opinion on the Sonos one way or the other, and I don't own any, but it's pretty obvious from the initial reviews of the HomePod that I have read, that Sonos is going to have to up its game beyond a discount for a pair of speakers.

    Serenity Calwell has listened to the HomePod, and is answering questions on twitter. I would argue that she is especially qualified to do a review of the HomePod because she competes in Roller Derby.

    https://twitter.com/settern?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.asymco.com/
    Short-term could also bring more sales to Sonos. It's a product category mindshare halo effect that causes that lesser known competitors and product categories that were either unimportant to or off a customer's radar completely to suddenly to be something they're willing to discuss, consider, and purchase when a company with extensive mindshare enters the market.

    We saw Blackberry nee Research in Motion, along with other smartphone companies, get a boost when the iPhone was introduced. We saw smartwatches take off and fitness tracker sales increase once Apple introduced the Watch. There may have even been a spike in Bluetooth headphones once AirPods were launched (but that could also be argued because Apple moved to a Lightning connector, even though they included a 3.5mm jack adapter that added an extra a few extra inches to your headphone cable).

    So far, those haven't lasted very long before Apple became the dominate force, but it also doesn't mean that they necessarily have to fail; especially in this market where we're talking smart speakers. Just like with Android sailing smoothly behind Apple's wake in the modern smartphone OS market, Sonos could easily adopt Google Home and/or Alexa to be the Samsung of the smartphone speaker (if that doesn't fall to Amazon).

    I certainly don't think that everyone is going to trade-in great sounding home entertainment systems that they spent thousands of dollars on, or get rid of the many low-cost digital personal assistants simply because Apple has a single… $350… speaker… with Siri.
    First of all, Amazon has already exceeded unit sales of Sonos. Similarly, Google already has an offering on the high end, and both Amazon and Google will now be throwing even more resources at the high end should Apple show success with the HomePod. Apple, Amazon, Google, Samsung, and MS, all have voice assistants, giving them a home field advantage with these products. 

    Pray tell, how is Sonos going to compete against all of these companies? Are they going to standout merely my supporting as many voice assistants as possible, or are they going to be able to create a device to compete directly with HomePod and the rest of the high end devices that are, or will, become available?

    As an aside, I would see Apple users split between Echo and HomePod more so than using Google Home; there's quite a bit of overlap between Amazon Prime users and iOS users.
    Nothing you wrote makes any sense to me in the context of my post so I can't even begin to pick it apart until it's written to conform to this reality.
    Why should Sonos exist? Just to be the "Switzerland" of smart speakers?
    Why reduce them to only selling smart speakers? As far as I know they've only just started selling their first "smart" speaker with includes both Alexa and Apple Music.

    Why can't they exist as a company doing what they've been doing before home-based digital personal assistants were on the radar? I really don't see Apple, Amazon, or Google making soundbars that squeeze Sonos out of the market.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 77 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,310member
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    Soli said:
    tmay said:
    gatorguy said:
    crudman said:
    I'm surprised by all the Sonos-hate here.
    Until about, oh I dunno maybe 8 months or so ago, Sonos was pretty well liked around here. Don't know what happened....
    Your context is that it was the very same people that liked the Sonos then that hate Sonos now. I'm skeptical of that, but it may be true.

    I had no opinion on the Sonos one way or the other, and I don't own any, but it's pretty obvious from the initial reviews of the HomePod that I have read, that Sonos is going to have to up its game beyond a discount for a pair of speakers.

    Serenity Calwell has listened to the HomePod, and is answering questions on twitter. I would argue that she is especially qualified to do a review of the HomePod because she competes in Roller Derby.

    https://twitter.com/settern?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.asymco.com/
    Short-term could also bring more sales to Sonos. It's a product category mindshare halo effect that causes that lesser known competitors and product categories that were either unimportant to or off a customer's radar completely to suddenly to be something they're willing to discuss, consider, and purchase when a company with extensive mindshare enters the market.

    We saw Blackberry nee Research in Motion, along with other smartphone companies, get a boost when the iPhone was introduced. We saw smartwatches take off and fitness tracker sales increase once Apple introduced the Watch. There may have even been a spike in Bluetooth headphones once AirPods were launched (but that could also be argued because Apple moved to a Lightning connector, even though they included a 3.5mm jack adapter that added an extra a few extra inches to your headphone cable).

    So far, those haven't lasted very long before Apple became the dominate force, but it also doesn't mean that they necessarily have to fail; especially in this market where we're talking smart speakers. Just like with Android sailing smoothly behind Apple's wake in the modern smartphone OS market, Sonos could easily adopt Google Home and/or Alexa to be the Samsung of the smartphone speaker (if that doesn't fall to Amazon).

    I certainly don't think that everyone is going to trade-in great sounding home entertainment systems that they spent thousands of dollars on, or get rid of the many low-cost digital personal assistants simply because Apple has a single… $350… speaker… with Siri.
    First of all, Amazon has already exceeded unit sales of Sonos. Similarly, Google already has an offering on the high end, and both Amazon and Google will now be throwing even more resources at the high end should Apple show success with the HomePod. Apple, Amazon, Google, Samsung, and MS, all have voice assistants, giving them a home field advantage with these products. 

    Pray tell, how is Sonos going to compete against all of these companies? Are they going to standout merely my supporting as many voice assistants as possible, or are they going to be able to create a device to compete directly with HomePod and the rest of the high end devices that are, or will, become available?

    As an aside, I would see Apple users split between Echo and HomePod more so than using Google Home; there's quite a bit of overlap between Amazon Prime users and iOS users.
    Nothing you wrote makes any sense to me in the context of my post so I can't even begin to pick it apart until it's written to conform to this reality.
    Why should Sonos exist? Just to be the "Switzerland" of smart speakers?
    Why reduce them to only selling smart speakers? As far as I know they've only just started selling their first "smart" speaker with includes both Alexa and Apple Music.

    Why can't they exist as a company doing what they've been doing before home-based digital personal assistants were on the radar? I really don't see Apple, Amazon, or Google making soundbars that squeeze Sonos out of the market.
    So, Sonos did about a billion dollars worth of sales last year, and is valued at some $10B. Nice,

    Against that, you have Apple, Google, Amazon, MS at some point, Samsung and everybody else in the smart speaker business; let's say $2 trillion in capitalization. What is Sonos' niche after HomePod like speakers start hitting the market en masse from Amazon, Google and Samsung? This is going to be a classic case of diffusion, where all competitors have access to all technologies, some lagging more than others. Will Sonos retreat to home theater and audiophile quality speakers, something that they already have an established market for?

    I'd venture that Sonos too has a high end smart speaker in the works to compete with HomePod, but will it be competitive enough? 
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