Either way, I'll be on the lookout for any silicone oil in finish products.
I kind of doubt there are any finishing products that contain silicone oil. It just isn't compatible with the drying or hardening that has to occur for a normal finish to, well, finish. What I have seen is that if liquid silicone gets on any surface that you then apply a finish to, the finish will "fisheye" or worse where the silicone was deposited. When I am woodworking in my garage I never use any silicone sprays or greases anywhere in the space to avoid contamination. If I had a dedicated wood shop, there would be no silicone in the building at all.
On John Gruber’s site he says anyone who encounters this should be outraged. Why do I get the feeling this is going to turn into another gate? Even though at this point we don’t even know for sure what’s causing it, how many different surfaces it impacts or if it leaves a permanent mark or can be wiped clean. Obviously if it leaves a mark that can’t be wiped clean that’s a huge miss on Apple’s part. But we don’t know at this point if that’s the case or not.
Well we absolutely have to have a stupid gate for every single Apple product out there. Apple has to fail with every product! Every Apple issue has to be 1000% blown out of proportion. You know, if Steve were here, this wouldn't have happened! /s
This will go on for about 2-3 weeks, maybe a month if were lucky and then it won't be talked about anymore...just like with every other stupid little issue that comes about after Apple announces something new or majorly updated.
I'm sure we'll see a stupid class-action lawsuit over this. The ambulance chasers are probably overloading phone lines right now as we speaker trying to get as many people as possible.
I’ve been a loyal Apple customer since before Steve Jobs was born and this shocking display of bad quality has finally made me quit Apple. I’m returning my HomePod and Pippin and Macintosh IIfx and switching to Samsung this instant there I did it Bixby is so awesome you guys and now I’m so happy.
Put on a coaster, a mat or something that isolates it from your precious surface.
Exactly. How is a coaster or a doily, not a "easy and permanent solution"?
Because there shouldn't be a need to put a coaster underneath a speaker lol.
Someone posted elsewhere that their Google Home left a mark. I don’t own this type of wood furniture. For people that do are you careful what you place directly on it?
Either way, I'll be on the lookout for any silicone oil in finish products.
I kind of doubt there are any finishing products that contain silicone oil. It just isn't compatible with the drying or hardening that has to occur for a normal finish to, well, finish. What I have seen is that if liquid silicone gets on any surface that you then apply a finish to, the finish will "fisheye" or worse where the silicone was deposited. When I am woodworking in my garage I never use any silicone sprays or greases anywhere in the space to avoid contamination. If I had a dedicated wood shop, there would be no silicone in the building at all.
As described to me, there are a few "shortcut" and gap-filling products that do. And then, there's the cleaners, and contamination from unknown sources.
There can even be some left over in brushes and sponges from the manufacturing process.
Put on a coaster, a mat or something that isolates it from your precious surface.
Exactly. How is a coaster or a doily, not a "easy and permanent solution"?
Because there shouldn't be a need to put a coaster underneath a speaker lol.
Someone posted elsewhere that their Google Home left a mark.
That is the reality of the tech world with a niche player like Apple. Products from other companies may have the same or even worse issues. But that will mostly get ignored.
AI, did the person with the rings actually say the surface was treated with a silicone compound like polish or was that an assumption on the part of the furniture finish experts? The photo with the rings looks to me like butcher block which is usually finished with mineral oil, not furniture polish or silicone. Mineral oil is a light oil byproduct of petroleum refining and contains a mixture of oils and other compounds. Normally liquid silicone should be avoided on furniture as it almost always will interfere with refinishing. Same for cars - silicone wax products have to be chemically stripped from the car before new paint can be applied.
I have not heard of the reaction between molded silicone polysiloxanes) and silicone liquids - but sounds possible. It could also be a reaction with mineral oil if that is a kitchen butcher block type counter the Homepod is sitting on. Even the wood itself could cause a reaction with the silicone rubber. If the wood has only an oil finish, there is not much isolation from the natural chemicals in the wood.
Kudos to Apple for using a more expensive silicone rubber for the foot for the Homepod, as it normally is very non-reactive with just about everything. It is unfortunate that users have found something that does react with it.
The people we spoke to didn't comment on the Wirecutter surface, as they can't inspect it in person. However, the overall phenomenon is generally known to them, and linked in the piece. It doesn't take much to contaminate a wood oil-only surface with silicone. At the finishing location with poor chemical control, at home with furniture polishes like pledge like we said in the piece. And you're right -- the wood itself can be contaminated from the environment.
Like Tmay, I suspect that the cleaners and possibly a protective varnish over the oils are the problem, not the oils themselves.
I know enough about woodworking and finishing to understand what's going on, but also enough to know I needed to call some experts about it before we talked about it. Time will tell what's going on.
The last furniture refinishing expert I worked with said never use any furniture polishes because they contain silicon. Use wax only.
Either way, I'll be on the lookout for any silicone oil in finish products.
I kind of doubt there are any finishing products that contain silicone oil. It just isn't compatible with the drying or hardening that has to occur for a normal finish to, well, finish. What I have seen is that if liquid silicone gets on any surface that you then apply a finish to, the finish will "fisheye" or worse where the silicone was deposited. When I am woodworking in my garage I never use any silicone sprays or greases anywhere in the space to avoid contamination. If I had a dedicated wood shop, there would be no silicone in the building at all.
I agree. The shellac chips I buy are "dewaxed" precisely for the reason.
While ultimately minor, this is a pretty glaring oversight on Apple's part. Any reasonably successful company should be ashamed at themselves for using a subpar material that can do this to a surface, but for Apple (and many others, not just them) it's an inexcusable oversight.
Try doing a in internet image search for this. At least so far, there are only about three images out there of this, and on one of them the diameter of the ring appears to be too large to have actually come from the HomePod right behind it in the picture.
I suspect this problem is going to be about as big a deal as the one when a few people with dark tattoos on their wrists found out that Apple Watch sensors couldn’t read their pulse through the ink. Momentary hoopla over an issue that affected a very small number of people.
I’ve had a HomePod on a wooden table since last Friday, and there are no rings. Of course, I don’t use crappy furniture polishes, so there’s that.
While ultimately minor, this is a pretty glaring oversight on Apple's part. Any reasonably successful company should be ashamed at themselves for using a subpar material that can do this to a surface, but for Apple (and many others, not just them) it's an inexcusable oversight.
Really? If it happens a lot, you might have a point. If, as I suspect, it happens to a very small number of people who have used a specific finishing product, no, it’s not a glaring oversight. When you’re selling a product in the millions, you can’t anticipate every possible variable. The law of large numbers says that even a highly improbable ‘issue’ will turn up at least a few times. Thanks to the internet, that will nonetheless be amplified and we’ll all hear about it. When considering something like this, the designers are making choices like ‘do we use a silicone material that might, in 0.00001% of cases leave a white ring on surfaces with a crappy polish on it, or do we use a different material, like rubber, that will, in 100% of cases deteriorate and crumble within a few years?’
While ultimately minor, this is a pretty glaring oversight on Apple's part. Any reasonably successful company should be ashamed at themselves for using a subpar material that can do this to a surface, but for Apple (and many others, not just them) it's an inexcusable oversight.
Silicone rubber, an elastomer, is probably one of the most inert compounds in common use today, and widely used in medical fields for its biocompatibility. It isn't by any stretch subpar. It is a premium choice for consumer product, and few companies would do that. This occurrence is not, and will not be, a widespread problem not matter how its portrayed by the media.
Apple will figure out which finishing products are a risk, and provide necessary warnings to such, and maybe even provide a coaster out of some natural material; how about hemp?.
"early-generation silicones used peroxide as the catalyst to initiate curing of the silicone. however, the peroxide reaction leaves an acid residue in the rubber that can deposit a powder or "bloom" on the part surface if not removed through a postcure oven baking process. though peroxide is still used, addition-cured, platinum-catalyzed silicones have gained wide acceptance among fabricators because of their faster cure rates, lack of peroxide bloom, and availability in an injectable, liquid form.
platinum-catalyzed (addition-cured) silicone is supplied to fabricators in a kit containing two components, which are mixed in a fixed ratio such as 10:1 or 1:1. the kit contains a catalyst, a filler, and polydimethyl siloxane polymer. blending of these components forms a compound ready for the vulcanization process. besides high-consistency (gumstock) silicone rubberwhich is also the form taken by peroxide-cured materialfabricators can purchase addition-cured silicone as liquid silicone rubber (lsr)."
I doubt that Apple is unaware of silicone processing, but it may be that there is a manufacturing process is not properly completed.
On John Gruber’s site he says anyone who encounters this should be outraged. Why do I get the feeling this is going to turn into another gate? Even though at this point we don’t even know for sure what’s causing it, how many different surfaces it impacts or if it leaves a permanent mark or can be wiped clean. Obviously if it leaves a mark that can’t be wiped clean that’s a huge miss on Apple’s part. But we don’t know at this point if that’s the case or not.
How is it a huge miss, man I can't follow you at all. I got them on wood here without any issue.
Can they test against all cleaning products in the world to see if there are no reactions.
I’ve been a loyal Apple customer since before Steve Jobs was born and this shocking display of bad quality has finally made me quit Apple. I’m returning my HomePod and Pippin and Macintosh IIfx and switching to Samsung this instant there I did it Bixby is so awesome you guys and now I’m so happy.
That Pippin could be worth something if you hold onto it longer ;-).
Comments
This will go on for about 2-3 weeks, maybe a month if were lucky and then it won't be talked about anymore...just like with every other stupid little issue that comes about after Apple announces something new or majorly updated.
I'm sure we'll see a stupid class-action lawsuit over this. The ambulance chasers are probably overloading phone lines right now as we speaker trying to get as many people as possible.
I suspect this problem is going to be about as big a deal as the one when a few people with dark tattoos on their wrists found out that Apple Watch sensors couldn’t read their pulse through the ink. Momentary hoopla over an issue that affected a very small number of people.
I’ve had a HomePod on a wooden table since last Friday, and there are no rings. Of course, I don’t use crappy furniture polishes, so there’s that.
"You're placing it wrong"
So, glaring oversight? Maybe, but probably not.
Apple will figure out which finishing products are a risk, and provide necessary warnings to such, and maybe even provide a coaster out of some natural material; how about hemp?.
https://www.mddionline.com/silicone-rubber-medical-device-applications
Some details that may be pertinent;
"early-generation silicones used peroxide as the catalyst to initiate curing of the silicone. however, the peroxide reaction leaves an acid residue in the rubber that can deposit a powder or "bloom" on the part surface if not removed through a postcure oven baking process. though peroxide is still used, addition-cured, platinum-catalyzed silicones have gained wide acceptance among fabricators because of their faster cure rates, lack of peroxide bloom, and availability in an injectable, liquid form.
platinum-catalyzed (addition-cured) silicone is supplied to fabricators in a kit containing two components, which are mixed in a fixed ratio such as 10:1 or 1:1. the kit contains a catalyst, a filler, and polydimethyl siloxane polymer. blending of these components forms a compound ready for the vulcanization process. besides high-consistency (gumstock) silicone rubberwhich is also the form taken by peroxide-cured materialfabricators can purchase addition-cured silicone as liquid silicone rubber (lsr)."
I doubt that Apple is unaware of silicone processing, but it may be that there is a manufacturing process is not properly completed.Can they test against all cleaning products in the world to see if there are no reactions.