It's just a specific formulation, and I'm quite aware that all materials aren't the same, and yet you haven't made mention of what alternate material is appropriate.
Anything that would prevent the ring from forming on surfaces commonly found where you'd place a small speaker. Do you honestly believe there's one right answer? It's like if I mentioned that Samsung dropped the ball on properly testing batteries that caused damage and you chimed back with "EXPLAIN ME TO THE EXACT CHEMICAL FORMUA FOR THE BATTERY THEY SHOULD'VE USED!1!" It's irreverent and you'd sound like a Samsung zealot if you said that… just as you sound like an Apple zealot because I said it's an oversight by Apple.
The Galaxy Note 7 battery fires were found to be due to some specific errors in the design and implementation of those batteries. “Chemical formula” is probably not the right question, but I think ultimately Samsung themselves were pretty specific in naming the issues that were at the root of that problem.
Unlike battery design and manufacturing that can and should be controlled to a point where there aren’t very many variables that haven’t been considered, it’s about impossible for a manufacturer to anticipate and eliminate all problems that could result from the wide variety of finishes and cleaning products that are used for home furniture. So your second sentence above kind of undermines the insistence in the first sentence. I think Apple probably did make the HomePod out of materials that won’t cause a ring “on surfaces commonly found where you’d place a small speaker.” It’s a much taller order to insist that they use materials that won’t interact in any way with any surface. Apple has a core principle of controlling variables within their products. It’s not really possible to control all the variables that exist outside but proximate to their products. Nobody can do that.
That doesn't affect my comment since that's in quotes. It's an example of someone trying to discredit someone's opinion by looking for ridiculous specifics. We can move that example to the design of the battery, which can include its chemical composition but let's ignore that aspect. I've read that it was too large, but how? Too tall? Too wide? Too thick? Even if you get some sort of specific answer to that question you have to know by how much. Then you have the chips that control how the battery. Perhaps it was an impurity in the construction of the battery (which may also have affected Apple batteries in many stories). Could the battery have been punctured? Dendrites may have formed for a variety or reasons, a micro puncture could have occurred which eventually let moisture in. Perhaps that's what caused the recent AirPod issue we saw in the news. Unfortunately, batteries are one of the hardest things to test for in the longterm, yet are one of the most dangerous, but how a material reacts to common surfaces like a table or skin is pretty damn common. To claim that Apple can't be held responsible for any issues, but that Samsung and FitBit are is just asinine.
See my comment right above. Nobody is claiming that Apple can’t be held responsible for any issues, but that Samsung and Fitbit are. I’m certainly not. Nonetheless, you and others seem to be up in arms about an issue that has not thus far been demonstrated to be widespread. Getting battery design right is a high stakes game, because of the fires and all, and Apple is just as on the hook for that as are any of the other manufacturers. So far, they’ve kept that issue largely at bay. Surface rings aren’t going to kill anyone, so the stakes are lower. Still, if it was a widespread issue, that could be a problem. So far, though, it does not appear to be, so maybe it would be o.k. to throttle back on the furor about it.
You can't apply "widespread" to this situation because it's not like the battery issue where x-percentage have a y-likelohood of catching fire under z-conditions. From what I've read, every HomePod will have the same result—not just a small percentage because of a production or component supply issue—if placed on a range of common wood surfaces. This is inline with FitBit's issue. I never had an issue a skin rash but for me to say it didn't happen to me so it's not a big deal would be ridiculous, just as its ridiculous to tell people it's their fault for putting it on any wood surface. This issue falls squarely on Apple's shoulders.
Oh, good grief. You are incorrect when you say “...every HomePod will have the same result...” Every HomePod is made of the same materials, yes. Not every wood surface in a home is made of the same materials. The HomePod leaves a ring only on certain materials, not every wood surface. Therefore, every HomePod will not have the same result. It appears, based on a distinct lack of photographic evidence, that very few people who have HomePods have placed them on surfaces that are made of materials that react with the HomePod’s materials. The issue is therefore, by friggin’ definition, not widespread. This is not hard. Let it go.
As previously stated, "HomePod will have the same result if placed on a range of common wood surfaces." You trying to excuse Apple's shortcoming by saying that because not every customer will place their product on these surfaces is fanatical. It reminds me of the old joke where a guy goes into the doctor and says, "Doc, everything I do this it hurts" and the Doc replies,"then don't do that."
Bottom line: This should be happening on any common surfaces and this has a simple and cheap resolution.
Ok. I have other things to do with my life. You have fun.
Soli has been unhappy since his HomePod arrived.
He's inconsolable that it isn't what he imagined, and then this.
Pretty funny actually.
It’s actually better than I imagined, with several aspects considereably more impressive to the point of me describing them as magical (as I’ve repeatedly stated in great detail).
If you only latched onto the less than glowing remarks I made about HomePod then that’s something you need to deal with; and I hope you do, because it’s that fantastical mindset that drives potential Apple customers to lesser devices without ever giving Apple products a chance.
Have you even acknowledged that Apple has admitted that HomePod can affect certain types of common wood surfaces?
Below is a duplicate of my very first statement in this thread;
"I'm thinking that silicone oil in polishing/cleaning products is the villain.
Unless we hear otherwise, I doubt that this problem correlates with traditional finishing oils. I hope that is true in the long term".
That's acknowledgement that there is an issue with the HomePod silicone base, but only in limited circumstances, so no, it isn't going to involve even a small fraction of users.
Obviously I'm aware that Apple has acknowledged the same issue, so I guess, by definition, I have self acknowledged that fact?
I only recall your very first statements, which to say the least, were petulant, and what's this about a fantastical mindset? Do you want to clarify that as if makes no sense to me.
By the way, I don't buy a bit of your bullshit material science thing. You came across as way too fucking vague, and were unable to provide even a single alternative to the use of silicone, and were seemingly unaware that silicone, an elastomer, is available in a wide variety of durometers, which is a measure hardness, without being an open or closed cell foam.
I'd guess that Apple is using something like Shore A 80 durometer silicone, since they don't want it visible dancing like a bobblehead toy.
Nothing you've written makes any sense. You might as well as say that Apple is responsible for the polycarbonate MB casing turning yellow or the protective film on MBP Retina displays pealing aren't Apple's fault or responsibility because I don't know the exact chemical makeup of the materials they used.
Apple made a choice, that choice was bad for customers, Apple is responsible. There's really no need for you bend over backwards to a company for making a mistake. It's not going to cause any injury or death so why get so defensive about them dropping the ball on something that has a very simple fix. Again, even Apple has acknowledged this shortcoming—which is something they're typically great at doing… before the fact, like with the original Watch not being able to accurately check heart rate through certain skin pigmentations which I haven't heard a damn thing about since launch.
On John Gruber’s site he says anyone who encounters this should be outraged. Why do I get the feeling this is going to turn into another gate? Even though at this point we don’t even know for sure what’s causing it, how many different surfaces it impacts or if it leaves a permanent mark or can be wiped clean. Obviously if it leaves a mark that can’t be wiped clean that’s a huge miss on Apple’s part. But we don’t know at this point if that’s the case or not.
those ATP boys sure do experience a lot of outrage. at least this time it’s not over keyboard key travel.
To be fair it’s a bit perplexing that Apple didn’t warn about this and include a disclaimer in the product packaging. Which would lead one to believe QA missed this. If they knew about it but chose not to disclose that’s just as bad. Still I don’t think it deserves to be a gate.
If you have special oiled wood I think the onus of care is on you as the owner. Others who own such pieces here say they’re familiar with devices leaving marks in their living finish and are familiar with care steps to prevent or restore.
This isn’t Apple’s problem.
If Apple knows that this silicon could cause stain issues then it’s something they should warn people about. Just like when they warned that the jet black iPhone 7 could be susceptible to micro-abrasions/minor scratches.
That’s the world damaging the apple product. This is an apple product possibly triggering natural, minor, temporal damage in the world. Not the same. Backwards. If you own a piece with a “living finish”, the onus is on you to protect it from the world.
However I’m betting you’d never even heard of a living finish before. I have. My sink is copper, and you’d better believe all sorts of household products and items produce wear on it depending on their base or acidity. Yet do I expect warnings and labels from them? Nope that would be absurd.
You guys try so hard to make everything a matter of what apple did wrong, it’s precious. “10” for your mental gymnastics. Now go for the dismount and stick the landing!
No it’s not absurd to say Apple should have included a disclaimer. And once this was discovered Apple updated their KB with a section called “Cleaning and taking care of HomePod”. Why was this section added only after this issue was uncovered? This should be included in the documentation that comes in every box. Its not absurd it’s a no brainer. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208435
On John Gruber’s site he says anyone who encounters this should be outraged. Why do I get the feeling this is going to turn into another gate? Even though at this point we don’t even know for sure what’s causing it, how many different surfaces it impacts or if it leaves a permanent mark or can be wiped clean. Obviously if it leaves a mark that can’t be wiped clean that’s a huge miss on Apple’s part. But we don’t know at this point if that’s the case or not.
those ATP boys sure do experience a lot of outrage. at least this time it’s not over keyboard key travel.
To be fair it’s a bit perplexing that Apple didn’t warn about this and include a disclaimer in the product packaging. Which would lead one to believe QA missed this. If they knew about it but chose not to disclose that’s just as bad. Still I don’t think it deserves to be a gate.
If you have special oiled wood I think the onus of care is on you as the owner. Others who own such pieces here say they’re familiar with devices leaving marks in their living finish and are familiar with care steps to prevent or restore.
This isn’t Apple’s problem.
If Apple knows that this silicon could cause stain issues then it’s something they should warn people about. Just like when they warned that the jet black iPhone 7 could be susceptible to micro-abrasions/minor scratches.
That’s the world damaging the apple product. This is an apple product possibly triggering natural, minor, temporal damage in the world. Not the same. Backwards. If you own a piece with a “living finish”, the onus is on you to protect it from the world.
However I’m betting you’d never even heard of a living finish before. I have. My sink is copper, and you’d better believe all sorts of household products and items produce wear on it depending on their base or acidity. Yet do I expect warnings and labels from them? Nope that would be absurd.
You guys try so hard to make everything a matter of what apple did wrong, it’s precious. “10” for your mental gymnastics. Now go for the dismount and stick the landing!
So far, 102 comments.
For this.
A stain rain in wood caused by a chemical reaction that I’ve been seeing since as long as I can remember.
I’ve even seen it when I left a lukewarm silicon oven mitt on top of a brand new oak shelving unit.
102 comments.
For this.
This takes the expression “first world girlie whining” to a whole new dimension.
If the ring doesn’t fade/wipe away then sand it down and revarnish.
Of course, what we’re missing here is a ‘Gate’ moniker.
RingGate? Doesn’t roll off the tongue, so to speak.
How about GonadGate?
After a couple days use, the HomePod’s sound output makes testicles shrink. This must be Apple’s contribution to the global emasculation everyone keeps banging on about.
Jesus Schwepped. At least Android fans are proper butch. They had the rocks to use phones that could detonate at any minute, and hardly any of them raised a fuss about it online.
Oh my gawd... now it’s Apple’s fault that some furniture polishes react with this?
this is a non-issue. I have plenty of other items that leave similar marks on my wooden tables yet I don’t find the need to whine on some board about it.
The ingredients contained in Danish Oil is extremely varied with each manufacturer having their own proprietary mixtures and percentages. However, most Danish Oils contain many of the following:
Mineral Spirits
Aromatic Petroleum Distillates
Mineral Oil
Stoddard Solvent
Tung Oil
Linseed Oil
Man-made and/or Natural Resins
Man-made and/or Natural Varnishes
Unspecified Vegetable Oil
Dipropylene Glycol Monomethyl Ether
Naptha
Japanese Dryers
Cobalt Dryers
Heavy Metal Dryers
So what is wrong with Danish Oil?
The problem with today’s Danish Oil is not the “oil” at all but the other toxins that are put into it. In the race to make it cheaper and faster, industrial coating makers have cut back the oil and increased the other ingredients which are toxic. This is particularly troubling for the two different groups of people that are subjected to these harsh chemicals:
Working with Danish Oil
The people who apply Danish Oil need to read the application instructions on the packaging very carefully and plan accordingly. They also need to review and understand the Safety Data Sheet (SDS). Failure to apply the product in a well ventilated room or have appropriate NIOSH respirators will result in a “buzz” from the fumes which can lead to headaches, vomiting and worse.
Effects Of Overexposure – Chronic Hazards: Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage.Danish Oil SDS
Long term exposure to Danish Oil
While the Danish Oil may be cured in a few days, there will be residuals that come off of the finish for the following weeks, months and years. No one should spend 1/3 of their day sleeping and being exposed to off-gassing chemicals. Unfortunately, long-term exposure studies are extremely difficult to study and quantify. Some might like to put their head in the sand and say that since there are no immediate effects, there is nothing to worry about. This flies in the face of the reality of increased cancer rates, mental health issues and chemical sensitivities. Additionally, what about small children who love to put things in their mouths or chew on things they can’t fit? What are they ingesting and to what degree is this “safe”?
There is no definitive answer explaining what exposure will do over time to a person. All indications are that it is not good.
Oh my gawd... now it’s Apple’s fault that some furniture polishes react with this?
this is a non-issue. I have plenty of other items that leave similar marks on my wooden tables yet I don’t find the need to whine on some board about it.
wipe it down and move on. Jeez.
Not saying it’s Appe’s fault but rather why not include a disclaimer like they did with the iPhone 7 jet black? And I would be curious to know...did Apple coma across this in their QA/employee experience testing? Supposedly a number of Apple employees were using HomePod for months before it went on sale. Did they know this would occur but chose not to provide a disclaimer because they thought the instances of it happening would be rare? Or because they assumed people with furniture like this wouldn’t place HomePod directly on it? Again non-communication bites Apple in the ass. Had they provided this disclaimer immediately when the product went on sale it wouldn’t come across as condescending and flippant like somebody at Apple is rolling their eyes that they have to explain/apologize for chemistry.
The ingredients contained in Danish Oil is extremely varied with each manufacturer having their own proprietary mixtures and percentages. However, most Danish Oils contain many of the following:
Mineral Spirits
Aromatic Petroleum Distillates
Mineral Oil
Stoddard Solvent
Tung Oil
Linseed Oil
Man-made and/or Natural Resins
Man-made and/or Natural Varnishes
Unspecified Vegetable Oil
Dipropylene Glycol Monomethyl Ether
Naptha
Japanese Dryers
Cobalt Dryers
Heavy Metal Dryers
So what is wrong with Danish Oil?
The problem with today’s Danish Oil is not the “oil” at all but the other toxins that are put into it. In the race to make it cheaper and faster, industrial coating makers have cut back the oil and increased the other ingredients which are toxic. This is particularly troubling for the two different groups of people that are subjected to these harsh chemicals:
Working with Danish Oil
The people who apply Danish Oil need to read the application instructions on the packaging very carefully and plan accordingly. They also need to review and understand the Safety Data Sheet (SDS). Failure to apply the product in a well ventilated room or have appropriate NIOSH respirators will result in a “buzz” from the fumes which can lead to headaches, vomiting and worse.
Effects Of Overexposure – Chronic Hazards: Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage.Danish Oil SDS
Long term exposure to Danish Oil
While the Danish Oil may be cured in a few days, there will be residuals that come off of the finish for the following weeks, months and years. No one should spend 1/3 of their day sleeping and being exposed to off-gassing chemicals. Unfortunately, long-term exposure studies are extremely difficult to study and quantify. Some might like to put their head in the sand and say that since there are no immediate effects, there is nothing to worry about. This flies in the face of the reality of increased cancer rates, mental health issues and chemical sensitivities. Additionally, what about small children who love to put things in their mouths or chew on things they can’t fit? What are they ingesting and to what degree is this “safe”?
There is no definitive answer explaining what exposure will do over time to a person. All indications are that it is not good.
There's more if you care to follow this.
Yeah, all Apple's fault...
It isn't specifically Danish Oil.
And yes, things with organic solvents have their own risks, mostly outside the scope of the conversation.
The ingredients contained in Danish Oil is extremely varied with each manufacturer having their own proprietary mixtures and percentages. However, most Danish Oils contain many of the following:
Mineral Spirits
Aromatic Petroleum Distillates
Mineral Oil
Stoddard Solvent
Tung Oil
Linseed Oil
Man-made and/or Natural Resins
Man-made and/or Natural Varnishes
Unspecified Vegetable Oil
Dipropylene Glycol Monomethyl Ether
Naptha
Japanese Dryers
Cobalt Dryers
Heavy Metal Dryers
So what is wrong with Danish Oil?
The problem with today’s Danish Oil is not the “oil” at all but the other toxins that are put into it. In the race to make it cheaper and faster, industrial coating makers have cut back the oil and increased the other ingredients which are toxic. This is particularly troubling for the two different groups of people that are subjected to these harsh chemicals:
Working with Danish Oil
The people who apply Danish Oil need to read the application instructions on the packaging very carefully and plan accordingly. They also need to review and understand the Safety Data Sheet (SDS). Failure to apply the product in a well ventilated room or have appropriate NIOSH respirators will result in a “buzz” from the fumes which can lead to headaches, vomiting and worse.
Effects Of Overexposure – Chronic Hazards: Reports have associated repeated and prolonged occupational overexposure to solvents with permanent brain and nervous system damage.Danish Oil SDS
Long term exposure to Danish Oil
While the Danish Oil may be cured in a few days, there will be residuals that come off of the finish for the following weeks, months and years. No one should spend 1/3 of their day sleeping and being exposed to off-gassing chemicals. Unfortunately, long-term exposure studies are extremely difficult to study and quantify. Some might like to put their head in the sand and say that since there are no immediate effects, there is nothing to worry about. This flies in the face of the reality of increased cancer rates, mental health issues and chemical sensitivities. Additionally, what about small children who love to put things in their mouths or chew on things they can’t fit? What are they ingesting and to what degree is this “safe”?
There is no definitive answer explaining what exposure will do over time to a person. All indications are that it is not good.
There's more if you care to follow this.
Yeah, all Apple's fault...
It isn't specifically Danish Oil.
And yes, things with organic solvents have their own risks, mostly outside the scope of the conversation.
The list contains a number of solvents potentially interacting with Silicone as well; one of the reasons I posted it.
I mentioned this upthread, but maybe it’s worth repeating for the benefit of the folks still going on about how Apple should have tested for, anticipated, and corrected for this terrible problem but obviously didn’t.
HomePods have been in the wild for almost a week, now. Given the nature of the device and of people’s homes, there are already probably millions of the things sitting on wood surfaces. There has been much tempest and gnashing of teeth on the comment boards about HomePods leaving rings today. Still, with all that, a google image search turns up about three pictures of the phenomenon, and in one of those the ring is the wrong size. So if Apple made a big error, why are there only two pictures out there to show for it? Maybe there will be a flood of them by tomorrow (though at some point, industrial saboteurs will be faking them), but for now...
Pics or it didn’t happen.
No issues on my end, but it's been sitting on a wood table that is sealed with some sort of varnish, polyurethane, lacquer, or shellac that I can clean with a damp cloth and doesn't to be oiled in any way, so I wouldn't expect to have that issue. I did check, for its own sake, but there was nary a mark, as expected.
Same here. A buddy of mine shot me the link to this story. I immediately walked over to the HomePod and lifted it up. No marks on the light color wood that it is sitting on. It’s the same type of treated wood surface that you mentioned. I didn’t expect a problem either, as I assumed that some type of moisture had to come into play to cause this.. but I still had to check.
It's just a specific formulation, and I'm quite aware that all materials aren't the same, and yet you haven't made mention of what alternate material is appropriate.
Anything that would prevent the ring from forming on surfaces commonly found where you'd place a small speaker. Do you honestly believe there's one right answer? It's like if I mentioned that Samsung dropped the ball on properly testing batteries that caused damage and you chimed back with "EXPLAIN ME TO THE EXACT CHEMICAL FORMUA FOR THE BATTERY THEY SHOULD'VE USED!1!" It's irreverent and you'd sound like a Samsung zealot if you said that… just as you sound like an Apple zealot because I said it's an oversight by Apple.
The Galaxy Note 7 battery fires were found to be due to some specific errors in the design and implementation of those batteries. “Chemical formula” is probably not the right question, but I think ultimately Samsung themselves were pretty specific in naming the issues that were at the root of that problem.
Unlike battery design and manufacturing that can and should be controlled to a point where there aren’t very many variables that haven’t been considered, it’s about impossible for a manufacturer to anticipate and eliminate all problems that could result from the wide variety of finishes and cleaning products that are used for home furniture. So your second sentence above kind of undermines the insistence in the first sentence. I think Apple probably did make the HomePod out of materials that won’t cause a ring “on surfaces commonly found where you’d place a small speaker.” It’s a much taller order to insist that they use materials that won’t interact in any way with any surface. Apple has a core principle of controlling variables within their products. It’s not really possible to control all the variables that exist outside but proximate to their products. Nobody can do that.
That doesn't affect my comment since that's in quotes. It's an example of someone trying to discredit someone's opinion by looking for ridiculous specifics. We can move that example to the design of the battery, which can include its chemical composition but let's ignore that aspect. I've read that it was too large, but how? Too tall? Too wide? Too thick? Even if you get some sort of specific answer to that question you have to know by how much. Then you have the chips that control how the battery. Perhaps it was an impurity in the construction of the battery (which may also have affected Apple batteries in many stories). Could the battery have been punctured? Dendrites may have formed for a variety or reasons, a micro puncture could have occurred which eventually let moisture in. Perhaps that's what caused the recent AirPod issue we saw in the news. Unfortunately, batteries are one of the hardest things to test for in the longterm, yet are one of the most dangerous, but how a material reacts to common surfaces like a table or skin is pretty damn common. To claim that Apple can't be held responsible for any issues, but that Samsung and FitBit are is just asinine.
See my comment right above. Nobody is claiming that Apple can’t be held responsible for any issues, but that Samsung and Fitbit are. I’m certainly not. Nonetheless, you and others seem to be up in arms about an issue that has not thus far been demonstrated to be widespread. Getting battery design right is a high stakes game, because of the fires and all, and Apple is just as on the hook for that as are any of the other manufacturers. So far, they’ve kept that issue largely at bay. Surface rings aren’t going to kill anyone, so the stakes are lower. Still, if it was a widespread issue, that could be a problem. So far, though, it does not appear to be, so maybe it would be o.k. to throttle back on the furor about it.
You can't apply "widespread" to this situation because it's not like the battery issue where x-percentage have a y-likelohood of catching fire under z-conditions. From what I've read, every HomePod will have the same result—not just a small percentage because of a production or component supply issue—if placed on a range of common wood surfaces. This is inline with FitBit's issue. I never had an issue a skin rash but for me to say it didn't happen to me so it's not a big deal would be ridiculous, just as its ridiculous to tell people it's their fault for putting it on any wood surface. This issue falls squarely on Apple's shoulders.
Oh, good grief. You are incorrect when you say “...every HomePod will have the same result...” Every HomePod is made of the same materials, yes. Not every wood surface in a home is made of the same materials. The HomePod leaves a ring only on certain materials, not every wood surface. Therefore, every HomePod will not have the same result. It appears, based on a distinct lack of photographic evidence, that very few people who have HomePods have placed them on surfaces that are made of materials that react with the HomePod’s materials. The issue is therefore, by friggin’ definition, not widespread. This is not hard. Let it go.
As previously stated, "HomePod will have the same result if placed on a range of common wood surfaces." You trying to excuse Apple's shortcoming by saying that because not every customer will place their product on these surfaces is fanatical. It reminds me of the old joke where a guy goes into the doctor and says, "Doc, everything I do this it hurts" and the Doc replies,"then don't do that."
Bottom line: This shouldn’t be happening on any common surfaces and this has a simple and cheap resolution.
Oh dear lord. Nobody complained when it was the cuisine art feet or the airport feet. but now that it’s an Echo competitor you are “concerned”. You like Echo, the ultimate gizmo for ordering more toilet paper from amazon, we get it.
1) Any reasonable argument you may have had dissolves every time you make that same ridiculous statement. You sound just like the trolls that come here to claim the iPhone is a toy because it doesn't give you root access to the file system.
2) "Cuisine art feet" :facepalm:
3) I'm purchased and analyzed both Echo and HomePod products, and have given many pros and cons of their abilities, as well as how each can be ideal for certain situations, yet you feel that I should have no voice in the matter because I've used an Apple competitor. How the hell does that sound reasonable to you? How many of these products have you tested?
Save your argument shaming for someone who gives a shit. It sure isn't me. Alexa was born to sell toilet paper and pet food. Right after those silly "buttons" for re-ordering laundry detergent. The Alexas of this world are not much different than netbooks -- cute. Ask it the weather and feel neat for 5 seconds (or even better, pretend to consume the news via a slow spoken computer voice)... But surely nothing more than what I do with Siri which is never outside of range as it's on my phone, my watch, my tablet, and my car.
Yup, somebody on this very threat cited kitchen tools specifically on their oiled wood counters, maybe you weren't paying attention. People who own nice things such as living finishes are aware of what affects them and how to protect them.
But your white knighting is noted and appreciated. For all my fellow owners of oiled wood and copper surfaces -- we salute you! Thank you for judging Apple on an anonymous rumors board on our behalf! Your honor is without limits and the tangible good you do is spreading...like an oil ring.
Oh my gawd... now it’s Apple’s fault that some furniture polishes react with this?
this is a non-issue. I have plenty of other items that leave similar marks on my wooden tables yet I don’t find the need to whine on some board about it.
wipe it down and move on. Jeez.
Not saying it’s Appe’s fault but rather why not include a disclaimer like they did with the iPhone 7 jet black? And I would be curious to know...did Apple coma across this in their QA/employee experience testing? Supposedly a number of Apple employees were using HomePod for months before it went on sale. Did they know this would occur but chose not to provide a disclaimer because they thought the instances of it happening would be rare? Or because they assumed people with furniture like this wouldn’t place HomePod directly on it? Again non-communication bites Apple in the ass. Had they provided this disclaimer immediately when the product went on sale it wouldn’t come across as condescending and flippant like somebody at Apple is rolling their eyes that they have to explain/apologize for chemistry.
Because I already told you -- warning of the 7 wearing is the opposite of what you're asking. As the owner of a thing yes, you should know what wears it, what it's susceptible to (which is why Apple warned of microabraisions). By the same token, it is the owner of the oiled wood that should be warned by the maker of that furniture of what wears it. Do you see the logical difference? Try. Harder.
OK, let's try it this way -- Apple warned owners of the 7 that it wears. But did the US mint provide you with a warning that your coins might cause micro abrasions on your 7? That's what your asking for here -- that all the manufacturers of all the things put out a specific warning that other things may suffer wear from their things. It's nutty.
It's just a specific formulation, and I'm quite aware that all materials aren't the same, and yet you haven't made mention of what alternate material is appropriate.
Anything that would prevent the ring from forming on surfaces commonly found where you'd place a small speaker. Do you honestly believe there's one right answer? It's like if I mentioned that Samsung dropped the ball on properly testing batteries that caused damage and you chimed back with "EXPLAIN ME TO THE EXACT CHEMICAL FORMUA FOR THE BATTERY THEY SHOULD'VE USED!1!" It's irreverent and you'd sound like a Samsung zealot if you said that… just as you sound like an Apple zealot because I said it's an oversight by Apple.
The Galaxy Note 7 battery fires were found to be due to some specific errors in the design and implementation of those batteries. “Chemical formula” is probably not the right question, but I think ultimately Samsung themselves were pretty specific in naming the issues that were at the root of that problem.
Unlike battery design and manufacturing that can and should be controlled to a point where there aren’t very many variables that haven’t been considered, it’s about impossible for a manufacturer to anticipate and eliminate all problems that could result from the wide variety of finishes and cleaning products that are used for home furniture. So your second sentence above kind of undermines the insistence in the first sentence. I think Apple probably did make the HomePod out of materials that won’t cause a ring “on surfaces commonly found where you’d place a small speaker.” It’s a much taller order to insist that they use materials that won’t interact in any way with any surface. Apple has a core principle of controlling variables within their products. It’s not really possible to control all the variables that exist outside but proximate to their products. Nobody can do that.
That doesn't affect my comment since that's in quotes. It's an example of someone trying to discredit someone's opinion by looking for ridiculous specifics. We can move that example to the design of the battery, which can include its chemical composition but let's ignore that aspect. I've read that it was too large, but how? Too tall? Too wide? Too thick? Even if you get some sort of specific answer to that question you have to know by how much. Then you have the chips that control how the battery. Perhaps it was an impurity in the construction of the battery (which may also have affected Apple batteries in many stories). Could the battery have been punctured? Dendrites may have formed for a variety or reasons, a micro puncture could have occurred which eventually let moisture in. Perhaps that's what caused the recent AirPod issue we saw in the news. Unfortunately, batteries are one of the hardest things to test for in the longterm, yet are one of the most dangerous, but how a material reacts to common surfaces like a table or skin is pretty damn common. To claim that Apple can't be held responsible for any issues, but that Samsung and FitBit are is just asinine.
See my comment right above. Nobody is claiming that Apple can’t be held responsible for any issues, but that Samsung and Fitbit are. I’m certainly not. Nonetheless, you and others seem to be up in arms about an issue that has not thus far been demonstrated to be widespread. Getting battery design right is a high stakes game, because of the fires and all, and Apple is just as on the hook for that as are any of the other manufacturers. So far, they’ve kept that issue largely at bay. Surface rings aren’t going to kill anyone, so the stakes are lower. Still, if it was a widespread issue, that could be a problem. So far, though, it does not appear to be, so maybe it would be o.k. to throttle back on the furor about it.
You can't apply "widespread" to this situation because it's not like the battery issue where x-percentage have a y-likelohood of catching fire under z-conditions. From what I've read, every HomePod will have the same result—not just a small percentage because of a production or component supply issue—if placed on a range of common wood surfaces. This is inline with FitBit's issue. I never had an issue a skin rash but for me to say it didn't happen to me so it's not a big deal would be ridiculous, just as its ridiculous to tell people it's their fault for putting it on any wood surface. This issue falls squarely on Apple's shoulders.
Oh, good grief. You are incorrect when you say “...every HomePod will have the same result...” Every HomePod is made of the same materials, yes. Not every wood surface in a home is made of the same materials. The HomePod leaves a ring only on certain materials, not every wood surface. Therefore, every HomePod will not have the same result. It appears, based on a distinct lack of photographic evidence, that very few people who have HomePods have placed them on surfaces that are made of materials that react with the HomePod’s materials. The issue is therefore, by friggin’ definition, not widespread. This is not hard. Let it go.
As previously stated, "HomePod will have the same result if placed on a range of common wood surfaces." You trying to excuse Apple's shortcoming by saying that because not every customer will place their product on these surfaces is fanatical. It reminds me of the old joke where a guy goes into the doctor and says, "Doc, everything I do this it hurts" and the Doc replies,"then don't do that."
Bottom line: This shouldn’t be happening on any common surfaces and this has a simple and cheap resolution.
Oh dear lord. Nobody complained when it was the cuisine art feet or the airport feet. but now that it’s an Echo competitor you are “concerned”. You like Echo, the ultimate gizmo for ordering more toilet paper from amazon, we get it.
1) Any reasonable argument you may have had dissolves every time you make that same ridiculous statement. You sound just like the trolls that come here to claim the iPhone is a toy because it doesn't give you root access to the file system.
2) "Cuisine art feet" :facepalm:
3) I'm purchased and analyzed both Echo and HomePod products, and have given many pros and cons of their abilities, as well as how each can be ideal for certain situations, yet you feel that I should have no voice in the matter because I've used an Apple competitor. How the hell does that sound reasonable to you? How many of these products have you tested?
*Alexa was born to sell toilet paper and pet food.*
At one point your comments had some credibility but now you're just making the most ridiculous claims. I'd laugh if I thought it was hyperbole for the sake of humour but you've made this comment so many times that it's clear you actually believe that.
Pointing a finger and saying "he did it, too," doesn't mean no one made a mistake. This problem is fixable, just like with FitBit after they realized some people had adverse reactions to the materials used in their bands. Like nearly all these issues, they'll soon be long forgotten.
Pointing a finger and saying "he did it, too," doesn't mean no one made a mistake. This problem is fixable, just like with FitBit after they realized some people had adverse reactions to the materials used in their bands. Like nearly all these issues, they'll soon be long forgotten.
It’s just like antennagate. Blown out of proportion.
1st time I saw it on twitter my 1st thought was just wipe it & put something under it. It’s not like this will damage your furniture forever. In most situation it’s likely disappear in a week.
Yes, Apple should fix it but it’s also silly small issue inproportionate to its outcries.
Oh my gawd... now it’s Apple’s fault that some furniture polishes react with this?
this is a non-issue. I have plenty of other items that leave similar marks on my wooden tables yet I don’t find the need to whine on some board about it.
wipe it down and move on. Jeez.
Not saying it’s Appe’s fault but rather why not include a disclaimer like they did with the iPhone 7 jet black? And I would be curious to know...did Apple coma across this in their QA/employee experience testing? Supposedly a number of Apple employees were using HomePod for months before it went on sale. Did they know this would occur but chose not to provide a disclaimer because they thought the instances of it happening would be rare? Or because they assumed people with furniture like this wouldn’t place HomePod directly on it? Again non-communication bites Apple in the ass. Had they provided this disclaimer immediately when the product went on sale it wouldn’t come across as condescending and flippant like somebody at Apple is rolling their eyes that they have to explain/apologize for chemistry.
Because I already told you -- warning of the 7 wearing is the opposite of what you're asking. As the owner of a thing yes, you should know what wears it, what it's susceptible to (which is why Apple warned of microabraisions). By the same token, it is the owner of the oiled wood that should be warned by the maker of that furniture of what wears it. Do you see the logical difference? Try. Harder.
OK, let's try it this way -- Apple warned owners of the 7 that it wears. But did the US mint provide you with a warning that your coins might cause micro abrasions on your 7? That's what your asking for here -- that all the manufacturers of all the things put out a specific warning that other things may suffer wear from their things. It's nutty.
It’s CYA. Apple execs know the company gets more attention than any other company on the planet. They’ve got a disclaimer out there now. How hard would it have been to have that disclaimer when the product first went on sale?
From the pictures they're showing, it's a blemish on your oiled finish, not a blemish on your wood. It's easily fixed the same way as your wood was oiled in the first place. Clean it, dry it, and re-oil. The mark will go away.
Surely your life cannot have been so unremarkable that this causes such consternation. It really is the end of the word as we know it.
Comments
Apple made a choice, that choice was bad for customers, Apple is responsible. There's really no need for you bend over backwards to a company for making a mistake. It's not going to cause any injury or death so why get so defensive about them dropping the ball on something that has a very simple fix. Again, even Apple has acknowledged this shortcoming—which is something they're typically great at doing… before the fact, like with the original Watch not being able to accurately check heart rate through certain skin pigmentations which I haven't heard a damn thing about since launch.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208435
For this.
A stain rain in wood caused by a chemical reaction that I’ve been seeing since as long as I can remember.
I’ve even seen it when I left a lukewarm silicon oven mitt on top of a brand new oak shelving unit.
102 comments.
For this.
This takes the expression “first world girlie whining” to a whole new dimension.
If the ring doesn’t fade/wipe away then sand it down and revarnish.
Of course, what we’re missing here is a ‘Gate’ moniker.
RingGate? Doesn’t roll off the tongue, so to speak.
How about GonadGate?
After a couple days use, the HomePod’s sound output makes testicles shrink. This must be Apple’s contribution to the global emasculation everyone keeps banging on about.
Jesus Schwepped. At least Android fans are proper butch. They had the rocks to use phones that could detonate at any minute, and hardly any of them raised a fuss about it online.
this is a non-issue. I have plenty of other items that leave similar marks on my wooden tables yet I don’t find the need to whine on some board about it.
wipe it down and move on. Jeez.
Link to some product information discussing Danish Oil;
http://www.dapwood.com/danish-oil/
What does Danish Oil contain?
The ingredients contained in Danish Oil is extremely varied with each manufacturer having their own proprietary mixtures and percentages. However, most Danish Oils contain many of the following:
Mineral Spirits- Aromatic Petroleum Distillates
- Mineral Oil
- Stoddard Solvent
- Tung Oil
- Linseed Oil
- Man-made and/or Natural Resins
- Man-made and/or Natural Varnishes
- Unspecified Vegetable Oil
- Dipropylene Glycol Monomethyl Ether
- Naptha
- Japanese Dryers
- Cobalt Dryers
- Heavy Metal Dryers
So what is wrong with Danish Oil?
The problem with today’s Danish Oil is not the “oil” at all but the other toxins that are put into it. In the race to make it cheaper and faster, industrial coating makers have cut back the oil and increased the other ingredients which are toxic. This is particularly troubling for the two different groups of people that are subjected to these harsh chemicals:
Working with Danish Oil
The people who apply Danish Oil need to read the application instructions on the packaging very carefully and plan accordingly. They also need to review and understand the Safety Data Sheet (SDS). Failure to apply the product in a well ventilated room or have appropriate NIOSH respirators will result in a “buzz” from the fumes which can lead to headaches, vomiting and worse.
Long term exposure to Danish Oil
While the Danish Oil may be cured in a few days, there will be residuals that come off of the finish for the following weeks, months and years. No one should spend 1/3 of their day sleeping and being exposed to off-gassing chemicals. Unfortunately, long-term exposure studies are extremely difficult to study and quantify. Some might like to put their head in the sand and say that since there are no immediate effects, there is nothing to worry about. This flies in the face of the reality of increased cancer rates, mental health issues and chemical sensitivities. Additionally, what about small children who love to put things in their mouths or chew on things they can’t fit? What are they ingesting and to what degree is this “safe”?
There is no definitive answer explaining what exposure will do over time to a person. All indications are that it is not good.
Yeah, all Apple's fault...
https://www.westwindhardwood.com/products/oli-natura/
Teak, Tung and Linseed oils are all good, but you will want to test your wood/furniture before you commit.
Yup, somebody on this very threat cited kitchen tools specifically on their oiled wood counters, maybe you weren't paying attention. People who own nice things such as living finishes are aware of what affects them and how to protect them.
But your white knighting is noted and appreciated. For all my fellow owners of oiled wood and copper surfaces -- we salute you! Thank you for judging Apple on an anonymous rumors board on our behalf! Your honor is without limits and the tangible good you do is spreading...like an oil ring.
OK, let's try it this way -- Apple warned owners of the 7 that it wears. But did the US mint provide you with a warning that your coins might cause micro abrasions on your 7? That's what your asking for here -- that all the manufacturers of all the things put out a specific warning that other things may suffer wear from their things. It's nutty.
https://amp.tomsguide.com/us/sonos-one-damages-wood,news-26628.html
Can we get back to whatever we did before now?
Didn't even make it 48 hours.
1st time I saw it on twitter my 1st thought was just wipe it & put something under it. It’s not like this will damage your furniture forever. In most situation it’s likely disappear in a week.
Yes, Apple should fix it but it’s also silly small issue inproportionate to its outcries.
From the pictures they're showing, it's a blemish on your oiled finish, not a blemish on your wood. It's easily fixed the same way as your wood was oiled in the first place. Clean it, dry it, and re-oil. The mark will go away.
Surely your life cannot have been so unremarkable that this causes such consternation. It really is the end of the word as we know it.