Refurbished, high-end iPhones are suffocating the growth of cheap new Androids

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,942member
    cropr said:
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue) 

    Does that 2015 android get new OS version upgrades? 
    If his apps run on whatever system the phone has, does it matter?
    muthuk_vanalingamBubbaTwo
  • Reply 42 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,942member
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 43 of 67
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    avon b7 said:
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    Don't want or can't afford?

    Refurbished iPhones are an option for those that do want to own an iPhone.
    edited March 2018 watto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 44 of 67
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member

    avon b7 said:
    cropr said:
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue) 

    Does that 2015 android get new OS version upgrades? 
    If his apps run on whatever system the phone has, does it matter?
    Unless the apps he wants are only supported on a later OS version, in which case, he's out of luck with your scenario.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 45 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,942member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    Don't want or can't afford?

    Refurbished iPhones are an option for those that do want to own an iPhone.
    Exactly, some


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 46 of 67
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    Don't want or can't afford?

    Refurbished iPhones are an option for those that do want to own an iPhone.
    Exactly, some


    I'm stating that there are people that can't afford an iPhone that want and aspire to one anyway. You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that.

    Example; would your wife want to upgrade to an iPhone X, or is it price that is an issue preventing her from doing so?

    Here's another example; 78% of U.S. teens want their next phone to be an iPhone. 
    edited March 2018 radarthekatwatto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 47 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,942member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    Don't want or can't afford?

    Refurbished iPhones are an option for those that do want to own an iPhone.
    Exactly, some


    I'm stating that there are people that can't afford an iPhone that want and aspire to one anyway. You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that.
    I am acknowledging that. I am also saying those people represent just some of the pie and a small chunk at that.

    With Apple's current offerings, plus refurbished options, hand-me-downs etc only the absolutely bottom end market would find itself priced out.

    It goes without saying that there are also people who simply have no desire to use iOS on a phone.
    edited March 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 48 of 67
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,993member
    avon b7 said:
    cropr said:
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue) 

    Does that 2015 android get new OS version upgrades? 
    If his apps run on whatever system the phone has, does it matter?
    Yes. Platform longevity means longer useful lifespan. That’s one more thing that makes iphones, especially old ones, much more valuable than your android knockoffs. This is obvious. 
    edited March 2018 radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 67
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 7,993member
    gatorguy said:
    cropr said:
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue) 

    Does that 2015 android get new OS version upgrades? 
    They still get regular monthly security updates. They still get regular Google core services updates. They will not get further full operating system updates altho that's not necessarily a bad thing from a pure performance perspective IMHO. 
    So....no, then. Got it. Not talking security updates but platform versions and all that comes with that. 
    tmayradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 67
    anton zuykovanton zuykov Posts: 1,039member
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because you still get the same infrastructure the rest of Apple users use, along with software support that is still longer (even for the refurbs) than what Android has to offer.
    Basically you are asking - is it still better to get a good and refurbished product (with the same warranty as a new one), or a new mediocre (or outright shitty) one! I mean, what informed person would chose the latter?

    edited March 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,942member
    avon b7 said:
    cropr said:
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue) 

    Does that 2015 android get new OS version upgrades? 
    If his apps run on whatever system the phone has, does it matter?
    Yes. Platform longevity means longer useful lifespan. That’s one more thing that makes iphones, especially old ones, much more valuable than your android knockoffs. This is obvious. 
    If you bought your phone with the intention of updating after two years, how is longevity relevant? If you keep the phone longer but your apps still get updated, isn't that at least a plus?

    The new phone will have far more bang for buck two years down the road. It's a perfectly valid approach. I suppose the 'value' you speak of is intrinsically linked to the original purchase price. Something that isn't even applicable if you bought cheaper knowing full well you planned to upgrade two years later.

    Your knock-off claims are still as empty as they always were.
    edited March 2018 gatorguy
  • Reply 52 of 67
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,093moderator
    GG1 said:
    I don't upgrade my iPhones too often, but when I do, I either sell or give away my old ones to people new to iPhones (there is one less Android owner and one less Blackberry owner out there).

    Apple may disappoint analysts with very slightly less sales volume year-on-year (negligible, IMO), but the pool of perfectly usable second-hand iPhones in-use must be growing substantially, posing a big threat to new Android sales. This article is spot-on.
    This is an often overlooked point. iPhones function longer, stay in active use longer (don’t end up collecting dust in a drawer), have higher resale value, and trickle down to more price sensitive consumers or those who see little value in technology (think grandma).

    My wife and I upgrade every year or two and always give away our iPhones. We used to give them away to family, however all of them now either have a functioning iPhone from us or are now upgrading to newer iPhones on their own accord. The vast majority of these iPhones replaced their junk Android phone they first got sold on from their carrier. Now we have run out of family so we have started giving them away to close friends. Not sure what to do when we runout of friends. Once these out live their use as smartphones (too old or battery no longer holds a charge) they almost always end up repurposed in a dock as a music player or other such scenario where they are always plugged in. This represents a lot of people being indoctrinated into the Apple ecosystem even if this would not have been their choice due to: cost concerns, ignorance of the experience differential, believing technology to be too difficult to use. I think once the smartphone market stops growing Apples going to be just fine, Android not so much.
    If you continue your practice of giving away iPhones I can hardly imagine you’ll ever run out of friends.  🙂
    baconstangwatto_cobra
  • Reply 53 of 67
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,750member
    gatorguy said:
    cropr said:
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue) 

    Does that 2015 android get new OS version upgrades? 
    They still get regular monthly security updates. They still get regular Google core services updates. They will not get further full operating system updates altho that's not necessarily a bad thing from a pure performance perspective IMHO. 
    So....no, then. Got it. Not talking security updates but platform versions and all that comes with that. 
    Including the device slowdowns that are inevitable trying to run new software and features (if you get offered them in the first place) on old hardware with more limited resources? Yeah that's why I said it's not necessarily a bad thing not to get a full OS update after three years. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 54 of 67
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,093moderator
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    Don't want or can't afford?

    Refurbished iPhones are an option for those that do want to own an iPhone.
    Exactly, some


    Tmay’s point being that more people want an iPhone than can afford one.   Here in the Philippines where I’ve been living the last 18 months it’s incredibly evident how many people aspire to any iPhone model, with a very robust resale market.  
    edited March 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 67
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,093moderator
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    cropr said:
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue) 

    Does that 2015 android get new OS version upgrades? 
    If his apps run on whatever system the phone has, does it matter?
    Yes. Platform longevity means longer useful lifespan. That’s one more thing that makes iphones, especially old ones, much more valuable than your android knockoffs. This is obvious. 
    If you bought your phone with the intention of updating after two years, how is longevity relevant? If you keep the phone longer but your apps still get updated, isn't that at least a plus?

    The new phone will have far more bang for buck two years down the road. It's a perfectly valid approach. I suppose the 'value' you speak of is intrinsically linked to the original purchase price. Something that isn't even applicable if you bought cheaper knowing full well you planned to upgrade two years later.

    Your knock-off claims are still as empty as they always were.
    Very little being said in this thread about the value of access to the larger ecosystem, as though a oersin’s choice of phone is merely a choice of, well, phone.  But these are all much more than mere phones, both iOS and Android.  When you buy an iPhone, any iPhone, you get access to an ecosystem that has its own set of advantages versus the Android ecosystem.  And I think consumers know this and see value.
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 67
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,044member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    Don't want or can't afford?

    Refurbished iPhones are an option for those that do want to own an iPhone.
    Exactly, some


    I'm stating that there are people that can't afford an iPhone that want and aspire to one anyway. You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that.
    I am acknowledging that. I am also saying those people represent just some of the pie and a small chunk at that.

    With Apple's current offerings, plus refurbished options, hand-me-downs etc only the absolutely bottom end market would find itself priced out.

    It goes without saying that there are also people who simply have no desire to use iOS on a phone.
    In many developing countries, given a choice, they would gladly choose iPhone. And those are not just a small chunk of a pie. I remember seeing a study regarding this, which showing a very high percentage of people in a country where Androids are the norm, prefer to get an iPhone if the price was cheaper (I couldn't find the link).
    baconstangwatto_cobratmay
  • Reply 57 of 67
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,942member
    kevin kee said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    Don't want or can't afford?

    Refurbished iPhones are an option for those that do want to own an iPhone.
    Exactly, some


    I'm stating that there are people that can't afford an iPhone that want and aspire to one anyway. You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that.
    I am acknowledging that. I am also saying those people represent just some of the pie and a small chunk at that.

    With Apple's current offerings, plus refurbished options, hand-me-downs etc only the absolutely bottom end market would find itself priced out.

    It goes without saying that there are also people who simply have no desire to use iOS on a phone.
    In many developing countries, given a choice, they would gladly choose iPhone. And those are not just a small chunk of a pie. I remember seeing a study regarding this, which showing a very high percentage of people in a country where Androids are the norm, prefer to get an iPhone if the price was cheaper (I couldn't find the link).
    What are you basing you claims on?

    I live in a developed country but you can ask any Android user you come across if they would rather have an iPhone and I can guarantee you from personal experience that almost all of them will say no. This is supported by the fact that many of them can easily afford an iPhone, some of them have actually owned iPhones previously and others have high end Android phones anyway.


    edited March 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 58 of 67
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,312member
    GG1 said:
    I don't upgrade my iPhones too often, but when I do, I either sell or give away my old ones to people new to iPhones (there is one less Android owner and one less Blackberry owner out there).

    Apple may disappoint analysts with very slightly less sales volume year-on-year (negligible, IMO), but the pool of perfectly usable second-hand iPhones in-use must be growing substantially, posing a big threat to new Android sales. This article is spot-on.
    Well the evidence is that is number of installed devices. 
  • Reply 59 of 67
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,818member
    avon b7 said:
    kevin kee said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    Don't want or can't afford?

    Refurbished iPhones are an option for those that do want to own an iPhone.
    Exactly, some


    I'm stating that there are people that can't afford an iPhone that want and aspire to one anyway. You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that.
    I am acknowledging that. I am also saying those people represent just some of the pie and a small chunk at that.

    With Apple's current offerings, plus refurbished options, hand-me-downs etc only the absolutely bottom end market would find itself priced out.

    It goes without saying that there are also people who simply have no desire to use iOS on a phone.
    In many developing countries, given a choice, they would gladly choose iPhone. And those are not just a small chunk of a pie. I remember seeing a study regarding this, which showing a very high percentage of people in a country where Androids are the norm, prefer to get an iPhone if the price was cheaper (I couldn't find the link).
    What are you basing you claims on?

    I live in a developed country but you can ask any Android user you come across if they would rather have an iPhone and I can guarantee you from personal experience that almost all of them will say no. This is supported by the fact that many of them can easily afford an iPhone, some of them have actually owned iPhones previously and others have high end Android phones anyway.


    I've seen many, many, posts on your part postulating that "if only Apple had lower priced iPhones, they would see more unit sales". I acknowledge the you are correct that Android uptake is almost entirely driven by price on the low end. In fact, it is the only choice available. 

    Given the option of lower pricing points for iPhones, including refurbished models, it's hard not to imagine that there won't be some people abandoning Android OS for Apple's ecosystem. That's the aspirational part, and why Apple's user base keeps increasing. I look for your comments after Apple's next quarterly financials, when I expect iPhone X sales to shine.

    BTW, I've seen data similar to what Kevin Kee is referencing, and the data shows that Apple picks up more Android OS users than vice versa. I'll take that over your anecdotal evidence.

    Oh, here's a link to some data;

    https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/11/teen-iphone-survey-fall-2017/

    "78 percent of teens surveyed own an iPhone, up two percent from the spring 2017 survey conducted earlier this year. 82 percent of teens said their next smartphone will be an iPhone, the highest amount of interest ever noted in one of these surveys." 
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 60 of 67
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    kevin kee said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    Some people want iPhones. Looking at the 1550 million smartphones sold in 2017, I'd say most people don't want iPhones.
    Don't want or can't afford?

    Refurbished iPhones are an option for those that do want to own an iPhone.
    Exactly, some


    I'm stating that there are people that can't afford an iPhone that want and aspire to one anyway. You don't seem to be able to acknowledge that.
    I am acknowledging that. I am also saying those people represent just some of the pie and a small chunk at that.

    With Apple's current offerings, plus refurbished options, hand-me-downs etc only the absolutely bottom end market would find itself priced out.

    It goes without saying that there are also people who simply have no desire to use iOS on a phone.
    In many developing countries, given a choice, they would gladly choose iPhone. And those are not just a small chunk of a pie. I remember seeing a study regarding this, which showing a very high percentage of people in a country where Androids are the norm, prefer to get an iPhone if the price was cheaper (I couldn't find the link).
    What are you basing you claims on?

    I live in a developed country but you can ask any Android user you come across if they would rather have an iPhone and I can guarantee you from personal experience that almost all of them will say no. This is supported by the fact that many of them can easily afford an iPhone, some of them have actually owned iPhones previously and others have high end Android phones anyway.


    I've seen many, many, posts on your part postulating that "if only Apple had lower priced iPhones, they would see more unit sales". I acknowledge the you are correct that Android uptake is almost entirely driven by price on the low end. In fact, it is the only choice available. 

    Given the option of lower pricing points for iPhones, including refurbished models, it's hard not to imagine that there won't be some people abandoning Android OS for Apple's ecosystem. That's the aspirational part, and why Apple's user base keeps increasing. I look for your comments after Apple's next quarterly financials, when I expect iPhone X sales to shine.

    BTW, I've seen data similar to what Kevin Kee is referencing, and the data shows that Apple picks up more Android OS users than vice versa. I'll take that over your anecdotal evidence.

    Oh, here's a link to some data;

    https://www.macrumors.com/2017/10/11/teen-iphone-survey-fall-2017/

    "78 percent of teens surveyed own an iPhone, up two percent from the spring 2017 survey conducted earlier this year. 82 percent of teens said their next smartphone will be an iPhone, the highest amount of interest ever noted in one of these surveys." 
    I look for your comments after Apple's next quarterly financials, when I expect iPhone X sales to shine. - This is an interesting topic to discuss, because we have already discussed and have opposing view points!!! Despite setting new record for revenue in holiday quarter, Apple's unit sales went down by 1%. Do you expect Apple to increase unit sales in Jan-Mar quarter? I expect the opposite. Huge increase in revenue (which Apple themselves have provided in the guidance, no need to doubt that), but flat sales (+- 1% deviation).
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