Editorial: Bloomberg spins Apple's Event as a desperate, blind stab for cheap iPads in edu...

12346

Comments

  • Reply 101 of 129
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,302member
    I stopped reading right around "Google began dumping Chromebooks on U.S. K-12 schools over the last few years because nobody else wanted to buy them."

    I could stomach the slant presented through the rest of the article up to that point, but seriously?  This is straight up ignorant.  First of all, I would like to know how Google was dumping anything on anyone, unless it was dumping Pixel Chromebooks on somebody (which they never have), since Google doesn't manufacture any of the Chromebooks in question.  Secondly, if nobody wants Chromebooks, why has their marketshare been basically doubling year-over-year for the last several years?  And why has Google been spending so much time and effort polishing and improving Chrome OS if it's such a losing venture?

    This is Apple Insider, I get it, but please... at least don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them without even trying.  Unless this is the only blog your readers subscribe to,  you just come off sounding like a jackass.
    I stopped reading at that same exact spot because it made it obvious that the article was more spin than fact.
    DrakonVolkmuthuk_vanalingamrogerramjet
  • Reply 102 of 129
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,451member
    gatorguy said:

    Apple says they don't share personal information either. Except when they do.

    So those specific circumstances where Google will share personal information is perfectly OK with you since it's identical to the circumstances Apple will share personal information and you're comfortable with their TOS right?  You went to a lot of effort to arrive at the same set of exceptions you were already aware was Apple claiming for themselves. I mean you were aware Apple also shares personal information weren't you? 

    You have established a reputation for contempt for factually-backed, evident reality and a penchant for making huge unfounded claims.

    Carrying water for Google has made you very boring. You literally never say anything interesting or accurate because you're working so hard to back up a series of false ideas to flatter a marketing company.
    Hey I don't write 'em, I just repost 'em. :) You're the professional writer, and an imaginative one at that, certainly an original with a knack for turn of phrase. I couldn't come up with some of that stuff you do if I tried. Which I wouldn't. But I guess I'm not all that boring since you're interested enough to read what I have to say and comment on it. Heck you even call on me when I'm not engaging in a discussion as much as you'd like:  
    @gatorguy is our resident intellectual..."

    But that's OK. I like to hear what you have to say too, just not generally driven to lodge personal attacks against some other forum member who doesn't agree with my own opinions, or otherwise just doesn't like what I've said even if it's true/accurate.
    edited March 2018 avon b7muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 103 of 129
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,922member
    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. 
    ANYTHING can win there, as long as its cheap as dirt and works nominally (notice, I did not say "works good"). You are asking Apple to go down in price? I thought that dead horse have been beaten to the second death by now...
    Not just me. That’s why I posted those iMore links. People far smarter than me about the education sector think this. Not everyone is obsessed with how much money Apple makes as DED and other AI posters are. Also when you say go down in price...um, the iPhone SE is cheaper (and more premium with better specs) than the iPhone C was. There’s the 9.7” iPad for $329, which is the same price as the 1st generation iPad mini. The idea that Apple couldn’t go cheaper to gain share in the education market is nonsense.
    GeorgeBMacmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 104 of 129
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,451member
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 

    Another strawman argument. Is that all you two have left?
    A strawman? Hardly.  It was you yourself who claimed Google can't be trusted, yet Apple apparently does. So calling "Strawman!" looks like your way of avoiding acknowledgment of a conundrum:
    Either Apple trusts them, and I guarantee they know more about Google than you do, or Apple sold you out for profit.

    Personally I can't see Apple playing the part of Judas, so if must be that you don't agree with Apple's well-informed partnering with Google, yet happily use Apple's services anyway? So how do you explain it? 
    edited March 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 105 of 129
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 

    Another strawman argument. Is that all you two have left?
    A strawman? Hardly.  It was you yourself who claimed Google can't be trusted, yet Apple apparently does. So calling "Strawman!" looks like your way of avoiding acknowledgment of a conundrum:
    Either Apple trusts them, and I guarantee they know more about Google than you do, or Apple sold you out for profit.

    Personally I can't see Apple playing the part of Judas, so if must be that you don't agree with Apple's well-informed partnering with Google, yet happily use Apple's services anyway? So how do you explain it? 

    I have a simple question for you. Apple uses Google, Amazon and Microsoft cloud services for storage. Do you think that Google, Amazon and Microsoft have access to the information that's stored on those servers? As in the data is unencrypted and in its raw form such that Google (for example) has the ability to look at this data (if they desired)? Or that they know who the data belongs to (the AppleID of the user, their personal information, the DeviceID it came from and so on).

    A yes or no will do. If you want to explain why, that's also fine. The answer actually lies in another major news story of late.
    watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 106 of 129
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,451member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 

    Another strawman argument. Is that all you two have left?
    A strawman? Hardly.  It was you yourself who claimed Google can't be trusted, yet Apple apparently does. So calling "Strawman!" looks like your way of avoiding acknowledgment of a conundrum:
    Either Apple trusts them, and I guarantee they know more about Google than you do, or Apple sold you out for profit.

    Personally I can't see Apple playing the part of Judas, so if must be that you don't agree with Apple's well-informed partnering with Google yet happily use Apple's services anyway? So how do you explain it? 

    I have a simple question for you...
    Ah, a new tactic... Misdirection! Why did I know you'd veer off again to avoid answering. LOL!
    Make you a deal tho. You first answer my question to you honestly and directly since I asked first. Then I'll honestly answer yours.

    "Either Apple trusts Google, and I guarantee they know more about Google than you do, or Apple sold you out for profit.  Personally I can't see Apple playing the part of Judas, so if must be that you don't agree with Apple's well-informed partnering with Google, yet happily use Apple's services anyway. So how do you explain it?" 
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 107 of 129
    thttht Posts: 3,165member


    tht said:
    Latko said:
    The school market is a lost chance for Apple - as long as it doesn’t deliver on the need for deployment tools (device management, app/version management, content mgt., rights/access mgt.) and keeps denying the need for multiple iOS accounts. Cook & co don’t even understand the concept of double instance multi-tasking (2 Word/Excel docs at the same time), making their post-PC claims near ridiculous. So an iPad with a pencil (if it comes at a Chromebook ‘s pricepoint to start with...) basically remains an overpriced sketchbook - that will never see structural implementation by the lack of a supporting infrastructure (what did Apple’s coopration with IBM bring in ?) A cheap repackaging effort that only underlines the lack of a broader understanding of the sectors’ device/content mgt. needs. Better stay out of this market - edu won’t match Cook’s premium financial prerequisites anyway and it would make Apple’s “thinking in the best interest of the customer” just a fluffy claim - as they only want to sell boxes
    The educational market is, and has always been, extremely price sensitive. Price sensitive markets aren't necessarily markets in which Apple should be attempting to compete. Apple makes aspirational devices and services. People who are used to using inferior alternatives should be desperate to buy and replace the old products with Apple products.
    I don't think the education market has always been price sensitive: there would never be a mac at school if this was the case. The comparison of Chromebooks to other devices misses two big points: Chromebooks are a network client for Google's education platform, which is superior to competitor offerings. Windows and Apple devices still sell apps on things, Chromebooks are access to GSuite for Education/Google Classroom. The other point is that Chromebooks don't require much expertise to look after. They are secure, they deploy and upgrade with no effort, they are interchangeable. To a school, it's the first computing platform that is as easy to use as a textbook. You just hand them out. But it's the first point. I live in Australia, have a child at elementary school and my son is at secondary school. The elementary school is on Windows, the secondary school is Apple: Macbooks Pros at school, personal iPads. But in 2017, both schools introduced Google Classroom and GSuite.  This is the beginning of the end for Windows in the elementary school. The secondary school is a performing arts school, and I think the Macs will survive there due to some special apps. But the requirement for iPads ... I'm not so sure that will survive.  Meanwhile my nephew and niece are at regional schools that have converted to Chromebooks, and two of my friends kids too. These are my anecdotes, but the latest ChromeOS market share figures show a massive increase in ChromeOS market share in Australian education, despite the five-year warning the incumbents had. This massive growth is from a low base, but it's exactly what happened in the US.

    As for tablets, I don't use my Android tablet anymore. I have a AUD $600 Asus Flip which is fast, runs Android and Chrome apps. This is why Android tablets are dead. Chromebooks are a much better value proposition. At my son's school, every child has a keyboard case for their iPad. It's not mandated, but they all come to the same conclusion about the advantage of a keyboard. This indicates a big problem for iPads in the secondary school classroom, in my opinion. When you see this, the attraction of Chromebooks becomes perhaps clearer.
    Thanks.... Well said!
    I glean from this two major points:
    1)  Chromebooks are cheap, easily deployed and maintained -- which makes the administration's job easier.
    2) They provide easy access to high quality Google Cloud apps such as Google Classroom which makes the teacher's job easier.

    Apple needs to approach this from the standpoint of the school rather than the student if they plan to challenge Google in this arena.  And, I think they need to:   Google is using this as a loss-leader to indoctrinate kids into THEIR eco system.
    One of DED’s points is that there is no such thing as decades long brand loyalty in a mass market wide sense, and this is the tech sector to boot. As has been seen already in the article and by others here, kids using Google’s hardware and services today may not be be using Google’s hardware and services 10 years from now.

    This is the tech sector, 10 years from now Google could be an also-ran and it’s some other company who is making all the sales. Maybe 10 years from now, the market will go towards client-side computing while server side (the cloud) is left to rust, ie, nothing but a commodity.

    For Apple, they are not going to win the race to the bottom, and the EDU market is basically the bottom. Apple isn’t even going to play that game. They will likely offer a solution that will deem as better for teachers and students. It will cost more to have. Apple is counting on it being good enough to carve out a niche on the high end, their usual market strategy.
    LOL....
    So there's no such thing as decades long brand loyalty?
    ....  Have you read any of the posts here at ai?
    ......... While there are no guarantees that doesn't mean there is no loyalty.  In fact:

    Apple has one of the strongest fan bases of any organization in history.
    And, the Apple vs Google rivalry has taken on religious fervor...

    So, do you have any valid arguments?
    Yup. No such thing as decades long brand loyalty in the mass market sense. Really didn’t say anything controversial at all. Of course there are brand loyalists for decades long, but there are not enough to sustain a business, that’s why I said “mass market”. Otherwise, BlackBerry, Nokia, Palm, Gateway, IBM Thinkpad, OS/2, Sun, Atari, Amiga, who knows what else tech titan through the years, would still be around.

    First and foremost, the products have to be good, and compete in a sustainable way, hopefully a non-commodity way. If they don’t, brand loyalty doesn’t keep the vast majority of customers with them. Incurring goodwill with kids means squat when they are adults. There are many other things that will drive their decisions in the future, and what they used as kids is a very small part of those decisions, if at al. Google’s future success, any company’s future success, will largely be dependent on their market and product strategies in the future, not their education initiatives today.
  • Reply 108 of 129
    anton zuykovanton zuykov Posts: 1,031member
    acejax805 said:
    Little known fact. People don't use products based on what they used in K-12 or even college, they adopt technology they use from work.
    Not always. I use Windows at work. My own devices I have been using at home are - Apple products. I used to have Linux and windows laptops at home (and still do), but they kind of just exist. I almost never use them now.
    edited March 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 109 of 129
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 

    Another strawman argument. Is that all you two have left?
    A strawman? Hardly.  It was you yourself who claimed Google can't be trusted, yet Apple apparently does. So calling "Strawman!" looks like your way of avoiding acknowledgment of a conundrum:
    Either Apple trusts them, and I guarantee they know more about Google than you do, or Apple sold you out for profit.

    Personally I can't see Apple playing the part of Judas, so if must be that you don't agree with Apple's well-informed partnering with Google yet happily use Apple's services anyway? So how do you explain it? 

    I have a simple question for you...
    Ah, a new tactic... Misdirection! Why did I know you'd veer off again to avoid answering. LOL!
    Make you a deal tho. You first answer my question to you honestly and directly since I asked first. Then I'll honestly answer yours.

    "Either Apple trusts Google, and I guarantee they know more about Google than you do, or Apple sold you out for profit.  Personally I can't see Apple playing the part of Judas, so if must be that you don't agree with Apple's well-informed partnering with Google, yet happily use Apple's services anyway. So how do you explain it?" 


    At least you're smart enough to realize the trap I set that would expose you as the liar you are. That's why you won't answer.

    For the rest of our readers I'll explain the corner you backed yourself into.

    When discussing cloud services there are only two concerns with regard to "trusting" your provider:

    • Quality of Service: How reliable are the servers, do they have the capacity and bandwidth to service your customers and what is their uptime guarantee?
    • Privacy: Will the cloud service use your data for other purposes, or will they keep it private?

    This article has NOTHING whatsoever to do with QOS for cloud servers and EVERYTHING to do with privacy. Therefore, we must look at your previous comment in the context of PRIVACY. You claimed Apple trusts Google with your data for iCloud. The only thing Apple trusts about Google is QOS - the ability for Google servers to reliably store data and provide it to customers when requested. There's no trust here regarding privacy, since Google DOES NOT have access to your data. They are simply a repository to store user data (that's encrypted and not available for them to look at, sell or share with 3rd parties).

    I'm sure you're well aware of this, but that didn't stop you from posting the ridiculous comment that Apple trusts Google with your iCloud data. The implication from you is clear:

    • Google has our data, and Apple trusts them to keep it private.

    Sorry, Google DOES NOT have our data in any meaningful form they could ever use. Therefore your claim that Apple trusts Google with our iCloud data is just another lie from you, carefully disguised to imply something is happening that clearly isn't. Which is why you're still a liar. A sneaky and clever liar, but still a liar.
    watto_cobramagman1979
  • Reply 110 of 129
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,451member
     ericthehalfbee said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    Dracarys said:
    Dracarys said:

    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. Probably one reason why Apple is having an education focused event. I actually don’t expect hardware to be announced at this event. My guess is it will be software focused.
    I'd rather pull my kid out of school than allow the likes of Google to data mine them and turn them into products like they have almost all living people on the planet.
    Enough of the hyperbole. You'd rather pull your kid from school than to have them educated? Also Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks, maybe you should actually ready their privacy terms for the education market. So maybe you should do some research and stop listening to people like DED who will spin anything and everything to favour Apple no matter what.
    Google doesn't data mine education Chromebooks? Seriously???

    Well, the EFF has a somewhat different opinion and you might want to educate yourself on their complaint to the FTC and their detailed report last year:
    https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy

    Google only uses collected data to ensure that the usage is proper, but they don't use it to sell ads or anything. It's very clearly marked in their privacy terms. 



    Sure they do. Until they decide NOT to.

    This is the same company that intentionally altered specific code to bypass tracking in Safari, and got fined by the FTC for it. What they told Safari users and what was actually happening were two different things. And you want to trust what Google says they're doing with kids education data?

    All you have to do is follow the money. Google makes its money on data, so it shouldn't be surprising to anyone what happened with Safari. Nor should it be surprising if something similar happens in the future.
    If Google is so evil why does Apple allow Google apps on the AppStore? 6 of the top 10 free apps on the AppStore right now are from either Google or Facebook.
    They've also welcomed Google ads into Apple News...
    and contracted Google to handle your iCloud server data...
    and agreed to make Google your Spotlight Search default provider...
    and agreed to make Google your default Safari search provider... 

     Gosh Apple seems to trust Google a whole lot, heartily endorsing them to their users. That Ericthehalfbee or Strangedays doesn't agree with Apple's choices is fine, but won't change Apple's decisions as they clearly consider them trustworthy and a preferred partner for some Apple services.  

    Unless of course those members or others think Apple sold 'em out for 30 pieces of silver instead,  but that would open up an entirely new set of trust issues. Yeah, I didn't think so. 

    Another strawman argument. Is that all you two have left?
    A strawman? Hardly.  It was you yourself who claimed Google can't be trusted, yet Apple apparently does. So calling "Strawman!" looks like your way of avoiding acknowledgment of a conundrum:
    Either Apple trusts them, and I guarantee they know more about Google than you do, or Apple sold you out for profit.

    Personally I can't see Apple playing the part of Judas, so if must be that you don't agree with Apple's well-informed partnering with Google yet happily use Apple's services anyway? So how do you explain it? 

    I have a simple question for you...
    Ah, a new tactic... Misdirection! Why did I know you'd veer off again to avoid answering. LOL!
    Make you a deal tho. You first answer my question to you honestly and directly since I asked first. Then I'll honestly answer yours.

    "Either Apple trusts Google, and I guarantee they know more about Google than you do, or Apple sold you out for profit.  Personally I can't see Apple playing the part of Judas, so if must be that you don't agree with Apple's well-informed partnering with Google, yet happily use Apple's services anyway. So how do you explain it?" 


    At least you're smart enough to realize the trap I set.. that's why you won't answer.

    For the rest of our readers I'll explain the corner you backed yourself into.

    When discussing cloud services there are only two concerns with regard to "trusting" your provider:

    • Quality of Service: How reliable are the servers, do they have the capacity and bandwidth to service your customers and what is their uptime guarantee?
    • Privacy: Will the cloud service use your data for other purposes, or will they keep it private?

    This article has NOTHING whatsoever to do with QOS for cloud servers and EVERYTHING to do with privacy. Therefore, we must look at your previous comment in the context of PRIVACY. You claimed Apple trusts Google with your data for iCloud. The only thing Apple trusts about Google is QOS - the ability for Google servers to reliably store data and provide it to customers when requested. There's no trust here regarding privacy, since Google DOES NOT have access to your data. They are simply a repository to store user data (that's encrypted and not available for them to look at, sell or share with 3rd parties).

    I'm sure you're well aware of this, but that didn't stop you from posting the ridiculous comment that Apple trusts Google with your iCloud data. The implication from you is clear:

    • Google has our data, and Apple trusts them to keep it private.

    Sorry, Google DOES NOT have our data in any meaningful form they could ever use. Therefore your claim that Apple trusts Google with our iCloud data is just another lie from you, carefully disguised to imply something is happening that clearly isn't. Which is why you're still a liar. A sneaky and clever liar, but still a liar.
    LOL... When backed into a corner you just can't do it can you. Yet more misdirection.
    You just refuse to answer a relatively simple question so that we can move on for my answer to yours just as I promised.  I'm not avoiding it at all, just waiting for the answer to mine first which is only fair.

    There's much more than just Cloud services that indicates Apple trusts Google, you just would prefer not to discuss three of the four I originally mentioned, and this is just what I thought of off the top of my head.

    -What about Spotlight Search... Apple endorses them to their customers by making them the default (in return for some money)
    -Safari default search provider... Apple endorses them to their customers by making them the default (in return for some money)
    -Google Ads in Apple News... Apple endorses them to their customers (in this case the advertisers from the news organizations) but not clear in return for what.

    So in your opinion, since Apple endorses them is it because they trust Google or because Apple sold you out for profit? You do have an opinion, right?  Try being honest with a direct answer instead of playing dodgeball, then I can answer your question. Betcha I can do it without calling you silly little names too. 
    edited March 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 111 of 129
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,451member
    @maestro64 ;, I have zero doubt that Google uses web searches to help determine "your" interest in a product or service. I would never tell you you are wrong for believing they do, because they really do. 

    They do NOT farm your GSuite account for data to be used for Google advertising purposes much as you'd like to believe they do. They also stopped scanning even personal GMail accounts for keywords to be used for advertising sometime back.
    https://gsuite.google.com/faq/security/

    As for how your daughter's college search ended up attracting ads it could have come from the college directly, or their data partner who could be any number of analytic companies, or a cookie partner of which there are thousands out there besides Google, or a Bing search, or a Yahoo search, or a smartphone search, or heck nearly anyplace. Maybe originating with Google, maybe not. Who knows.

    Where it DIDN'T come from was your corporate account. Paid services at Google are handled quite differently from the free ones as the expectations are different. 
    edited March 2018 muthuk_vanalingamavon b7
  • Reply 112 of 129
    anton zuykovanton zuykov Posts: 1,031member
    Listen to Rene Ritchie’s recent Vector podcast with Bradley Chambers. Apple has work to do in the education sector. DED can spin all he wants but Chromebooks and Google’s G Suite are winning in the classroom. 
    ANYTHING can win there, as long as its cheap as dirt and works nominally (notice, I did not say "works good"). You are asking Apple to go down in price? I thought that dead horse have been beaten to the second death by now...
    Not just me. That’s why I posted those iMore links. People far smarter than me about the education sector think this. Not everyone is obsessed with how much money Apple makes as DED and other AI posters are. Also when you say go down in price...um, the iPhone SE is cheaper (and more premium with better specs) than the iPhone C was. There’s the 9.7” iPad for $329, which is the same price as the 1st generation iPad mini. The idea that Apple couldn’t go cheaper to gain share in the education market is nonsense.
    I thought that taking a bigger share of the market while its getting cheaper and cheaper will give you diminishing returns!
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 114 of 129
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,302member
    tht said:


    tht said:
    Latko said:
    The school market is a lost chance for Apple - as long as it doesn’t deliver on the need for deployment tools (device management, app/version management, content mgt., rights/access mgt.) and keeps denying the need for multiple iOS accounts. Cook & co don’t even understand the concept of double instance multi-tasking (2 Word/Excel docs at the same time), making their post-PC claims near ridiculous. So an iPad with a pencil (if it comes at a Chromebook ‘s pricepoint to start with...) basically remains an overpriced sketchbook - that will never see structural implementation by the lack of a supporting infrastructure (what did Apple’s coopration with IBM bring in ?) A cheap repackaging effort that only underlines the lack of a broader understanding of the sectors’ device/content mgt. needs. Better stay out of this market - edu won’t match Cook’s premium financial prerequisites anyway and it would make Apple’s “thinking in the best interest of the customer” just a fluffy claim - as they only want to sell boxes
    The educational market is, and has always been, extremely price sensitive. Price sensitive markets aren't necessarily markets in which Apple should be attempting to compete. Apple makes aspirational devices and services. People who are used to using inferior alternatives should be desperate to buy and replace the old products with Apple products.
    I don't think the education market has always been price sensitive: there would never be a mac at school if this was the case. The comparison of Chromebooks to other devices misses two big points: Chromebooks are a network client for Google's education platform, which is superior to competitor offerings. Windows and Apple devices still sell apps on things, Chromebooks are access to GSuite for Education/Google Classroom. The other point is that Chromebooks don't require much expertise to look after. They are secure, they deploy and upgrade with no effort, they are interchangeable. To a school, it's the first computing platform that is as easy to use as a textbook. You just hand them out. But it's the first point. I live in Australia, have a child at elementary school and my son is at secondary school. The elementary school is on Windows, the secondary school is Apple: Macbooks Pros at school, personal iPads. But in 2017, both schools introduced Google Classroom and GSuite.  This is the beginning of the end for Windows in the elementary school. The secondary school is a performing arts school, and I think the Macs will survive there due to some special apps. But the requirement for iPads ... I'm not so sure that will survive.  Meanwhile my nephew and niece are at regional schools that have converted to Chromebooks, and two of my friends kids too. These are my anecdotes, but the latest ChromeOS market share figures show a massive increase in ChromeOS market share in Australian education, despite the five-year warning the incumbents had. This massive growth is from a low base, but it's exactly what happened in the US.

    As for tablets, I don't use my Android tablet anymore. I have a AUD $600 Asus Flip which is fast, runs Android and Chrome apps. This is why Android tablets are dead. Chromebooks are a much better value proposition. At my son's school, every child has a keyboard case for their iPad. It's not mandated, but they all come to the same conclusion about the advantage of a keyboard. This indicates a big problem for iPads in the secondary school classroom, in my opinion. When you see this, the attraction of Chromebooks becomes perhaps clearer.
    Thanks.... Well said!
    I glean from this two major points:
    1)  Chromebooks are cheap, easily deployed and maintained -- which makes the administration's job easier.
    2) They provide easy access to high quality Google Cloud apps such as Google Classroom which makes the teacher's job easier.

    Apple needs to approach this from the standpoint of the school rather than the student if they plan to challenge Google in this arena.  And, I think they need to:   Google is using this as a loss-leader to indoctrinate kids into THEIR eco system.
    One of DED’s points is that there is no such thing as decades long brand loyalty in a mass market wide sense, and this is the tech sector to boot. As has been seen already in the article and by others here, kids using Google’s hardware and services today may not be be using Google’s hardware and services 10 years from now.

    This is the tech sector, 10 years from now Google could be an also-ran and it’s some other company who is making all the sales. Maybe 10 years from now, the market will go towards client-side computing while server side (the cloud) is left to rust, ie, nothing but a commodity.

    For Apple, they are not going to win the race to the bottom, and the EDU market is basically the bottom. Apple isn’t even going to play that game. They will likely offer a solution that will deem as better for teachers and students. It will cost more to have. Apple is counting on it being good enough to carve out a niche on the high end, their usual market strategy.
    LOL....
    So there's no such thing as decades long brand loyalty?
    ....  Have you read any of the posts here at ai?
    ......... While there are no guarantees that doesn't mean there is no loyalty.  In fact:

    Apple has one of the strongest fan bases of any organization in history.
    And, the Apple vs Google rivalry has taken on religious fervor...

    So, do you have any valid arguments?
    Yup. No such thing as decades long brand loyalty in the mass market sense. Really didn’t say anything controversial at all. Of course there are brand loyalists for decades long, but there are not enough to sustain a business, that’s why I said “mass market”. Otherwise, BlackBerry, Nokia, Palm, Gateway, IBM Thinkpad, OS/2, Sun, Atari, Amiga, who knows what else tech titan through the years, would still be around.

    First and foremost, the products have to be good, and compete in a sustainable way, hopefully a non-commodity way. If they don’t, brand loyalty doesn’t keep the vast majority of customers with them. Incurring goodwill with kids means squat when they are adults. There are many other things that will drive their decisions in the future, and what they used as kids is a very small part of those decisions, if at al. Google’s future success, any company’s future success, will largely be dependent on their market and product strategies in the future, not their education initiatives today.
    You walked that one back pretty fast...
  • Reply 115 of 129
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,122member
    wizard69 said:
    Well i see DED is back to wasting bandwidth with a ton of crap that doesnt even touch upon Apples real problems in efucation. The number one issue with iPads is the lack of a keyboard which makes anything other than tribial text entry a psin. 

    The article was not an examination of Apple in education, but rather taking apart a false media narrative that US K-12 is super important that Apple desperately needs to drop prices to get in on this market. That's what it has the headline it does.

    Even so, the article specifically mentioned "features desired by educators, including the Smart Connector for attaching a non-wireless keyboard (that doesn't need to be charged separately) and Apple Pencil, offering a strong differentiation from other tablets." 
    I stopped reading right around "Google began dumping Chromebooks on U.S. K-12 schools over the last few years because nobody else wanted to buy them."

    I could stomach the slant presented through the rest of the article up to that point, but seriously?  This is straight up ignorant.  First of all, I would like to know how Google was dumping anything on anyone, unless it was dumping Pixel Chromebooks on somebody (which they never have), since Google doesn't manufacture any of the Chromebooks in question.  Secondly, if nobody wants Chromebooks, why has their marketshare been basically doubling year-over-year for the last several years?  And why has Google been spending so much time and effort polishing and improving Chrome OS if it's such a losing venture?

    This is Apple Insider, I get it, but please... at least don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them without even trying.  Unless this is the only blog your readers subscribe to,  you just come off sounding like a jackass.
    "don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them"

    - this pro-Google edu statistics group reports that 90% of chromebooks are sold to US/  k-12.
    - Google doesn't manufacture hardware, but it does directly sell chromebooks, and to edu. That's why it has websites with buy now all over them.
    - "Doubling" in education is not that big, and Google hasn't been doubling. It's unit sales of all ChromeOS devices went from 5 M to 7M and then stopped growing. That's only big next to Pixel sales. It's not a significant market, especially for loss leader cheap hardware.

    You come off sounding like a jackass
    gatorguy said:

    Apple says they don't share personal information either. Except when they do.

    So those specific circumstances where Google will share personal information is perfectly OK with you since it's identical to the circumstances Apple will share personal information and you're comfortable with their TOS right?  You went to a lot of effort to arrive at the same set of exceptions you were already aware was Apple claiming for themselves. I mean you were aware Apple also shares personal information weren't you? 

    You have established a reputation for contempt for factually-backed, evident reality and a penchant for making huge unfounded claims.

    Carrying water for Google has made you very boring. You literally never say anything interesting or accurate because you're working so hard to back up a series of false ideas to flatter a marketing company.
    Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for FINALLY hitting back at these asshats around here, especially GatorGuy, the PR poster child for Google on Ai.

    Quite astonishing how the vermin come crawling out of the shadows when one of your articles comes to light, doesn't it?

    Don't let them get you down, keep up the good fight, and let the truth speak for itself!
  • Reply 116 of 129
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,451member
    wizard69 said:
    Well i see DED is back to wasting bandwidth with a ton of crap that doesnt even touch upon Apples real problems in efucation. The number one issue with iPads is the lack of a keyboard which makes anything other than tribial text entry a psin. 

    The article was not an examination of Apple in education, but rather taking apart a false media narrative that US K-12 is super important that Apple desperately needs to drop prices to get in on this market. That's what it has the headline it does.

    Even so, the article specifically mentioned "features desired by educators, including the Smart Connector for attaching a non-wireless keyboard (that doesn't need to be charged separately) and Apple Pencil, offering a strong differentiation from other tablets." 
    I stopped reading right around "Google began dumping Chromebooks on U.S. K-12 schools over the last few years because nobody else wanted to buy them."

    I could stomach the slant presented through the rest of the article up to that point, but seriously?  This is straight up ignorant.  First of all, I would like to know how Google was dumping anything on anyone, unless it was dumping Pixel Chromebooks on somebody (which they never have), since Google doesn't manufacture any of the Chromebooks in question.  Secondly, if nobody wants Chromebooks, why has their marketshare been basically doubling year-over-year for the last several years?  And why has Google been spending so much time and effort polishing and improving Chrome OS if it's such a losing venture?

    This is Apple Insider, I get it, but please... at least don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them without even trying.  Unless this is the only blog your readers subscribe to,  you just come off sounding like a jackass.
    "don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them"

    - this pro-Google edu statistics group reports that 90% of chromebooks are sold to US/  k-12.
    - Google doesn't manufacture hardware, but it does directly sell chromebooks, and to edu. That's why it has websites with buy now all over them.
    - "Doubling" in education is not that big, and Google hasn't been doubling. It's unit sales of all ChromeOS devices went from 5 M to 7M and then stopped growing. That's only big next to Pixel sales. It's not a significant market, especially for loss leader cheap hardware.

    You come off sounding like a jackass
    gatorguy said:

    Apple says they don't share personal information either. Except when they do.

    So those specific circumstances where Google will share personal information is perfectly OK with you since it's identical to the circumstances Apple will share personal information and you're comfortable with their TOS right?  You went to a lot of effort to arrive at the same set of exceptions you were already aware was Apple claiming for themselves. I mean you were aware Apple also shares personal information weren't you? 

    You have established a reputation for contempt for factually-backed, evident reality and a penchant for making huge unfounded claims.

    Carrying water for Google has made you very boring. You literally never say anything interesting or accurate because you're working so hard to back up a series of false ideas to flatter a marketing company.


    Don't let them get you down, keep up the good fight, and let the truth speak for itself!
    I agree. The truth should be more evident and easier to discern and like you wish it could speak for itself.

    We should all be intelligent enough too that when we can't dispute the facts or truthfulness of a post simply keep our mouths shut rather than trying to compensate (for what?) by attacking the person.

    "I guess I showed him, I called him a name" is hardly a thoughtful response.
    :/
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 117 of 129
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,122member
    gatorguy said:
    wizard69 said:
    Well i see DED is back to wasting bandwidth with a ton of crap that doesnt even touch upon Apples real problems in efucation. The number one issue with iPads is the lack of a keyboard which makes anything other than tribial text entry a psin. 

    The article was not an examination of Apple in education, but rather taking apart a false media narrative that US K-12 is super important that Apple desperately needs to drop prices to get in on this market. That's what it has the headline it does.

    Even so, the article specifically mentioned "features desired by educators, including the Smart Connector for attaching a non-wireless keyboard (that doesn't need to be charged separately) and Apple Pencil, offering a strong differentiation from other tablets." 
    I stopped reading right around "Google began dumping Chromebooks on U.S. K-12 schools over the last few years because nobody else wanted to buy them."

    I could stomach the slant presented through the rest of the article up to that point, but seriously?  This is straight up ignorant.  First of all, I would like to know how Google was dumping anything on anyone, unless it was dumping Pixel Chromebooks on somebody (which they never have), since Google doesn't manufacture any of the Chromebooks in question.  Secondly, if nobody wants Chromebooks, why has their marketshare been basically doubling year-over-year for the last several years?  And why has Google been spending so much time and effort polishing and improving Chrome OS if it's such a losing venture?

    This is Apple Insider, I get it, but please... at least don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them without even trying.  Unless this is the only blog your readers subscribe to,  you just come off sounding like a jackass.
    "don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them"

    - this pro-Google edu statistics group reports that 90% of chromebooks are sold to US/  k-12.
    - Google doesn't manufacture hardware, but it does directly sell chromebooks, and to edu. That's why it has websites with buy now all over them.
    - "Doubling" in education is not that big, and Google hasn't been doubling. It's unit sales of all ChromeOS devices went from 5 M to 7M and then stopped growing. That's only big next to Pixel sales. It's not a significant market, especially for loss leader cheap hardware.

    You come off sounding like a jackass
    gatorguy said:

    Apple says they don't share personal information either. Except when they do.

    So those specific circumstances where Google will share personal information is perfectly OK with you since it's identical to the circumstances Apple will share personal information and you're comfortable with their TOS right?  You went to a lot of effort to arrive at the same set of exceptions you were already aware was Apple claiming for themselves. I mean you were aware Apple also shares personal information weren't you? 

    You have established a reputation for contempt for factually-backed, evident reality and a penchant for making huge unfounded claims.

    Carrying water for Google has made you very boring. You literally never say anything interesting or accurate because you're working so hard to back up a series of false ideas to flatter a marketing company.


    Don't let them get you down, keep up the good fight, and let the truth speak for itself!
    I agree. The truth should be more evident and easier to discern and like you wish it could speak for itself.

    We should all be intelligent enough too that when we can't dispute the facts or truthfulness of a post simply keep our mouths shut rather than trying to compensate (for what?) by attacking the person.

    "I guess I showed him, I called him a name" is hardly a thoughtful response.
    :/
    The truth has been presented, and has exposed you, for what you are, and your flair to twist reality to serve your narrative, which has been proven to staunchly defend Google at all costs.

    This site is littered with posts of people calling you out and proving you wrong, you launching straw man and ad-hominem attacks under the guise of a "rebuttal" to refute their evidence proving you wrong, and thankfully, even DED has taken you to task to showcase your falsehoods.

    After all these years of reading your pedantic, long-winded contrivances of FUD, you won't get any more from me, and I'm sure, many others here, going forward.
  • Reply 118 of 129
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,451member
    gatorguy said:
    wizard69 said:
    Well i see DED is back to wasting bandwidth with a ton of crap that doesnt even touch upon Apples real problems in efucation. The number one issue with iPads is the lack of a keyboard which makes anything other than tribial text entry a psin. 

    The article was not an examination of Apple in education, but rather taking apart a false media narrative that US K-12 is super important that Apple desperately needs to drop prices to get in on this market. That's what it has the headline it does.

    Even so, the article specifically mentioned "features desired by educators, including the Smart Connector for attaching a non-wireless keyboard (that doesn't need to be charged separately) and Apple Pencil, offering a strong differentiation from other tablets." 
    I stopped reading right around "Google began dumping Chromebooks on U.S. K-12 schools over the last few years because nobody else wanted to buy them."

    I could stomach the slant presented through the rest of the article up to that point, but seriously?  This is straight up ignorant.  First of all, I would like to know how Google was dumping anything on anyone, unless it was dumping Pixel Chromebooks on somebody (which they never have), since Google doesn't manufacture any of the Chromebooks in question.  Secondly, if nobody wants Chromebooks, why has their marketshare been basically doubling year-over-year for the last several years?  And why has Google been spending so much time and effort polishing and improving Chrome OS if it's such a losing venture?

    This is Apple Insider, I get it, but please... at least don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them without even trying.  Unless this is the only blog your readers subscribe to,  you just come off sounding like a jackass.
    "don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them"

    - this pro-Google edu statistics group reports that 90% of chromebooks are sold to US/  k-12.
    - Google doesn't manufacture hardware, but it does directly sell chromebooks, and to edu. That's why it has websites with buy now all over them.
    - "Doubling" in education is not that big, and Google hasn't been doubling. It's unit sales of all ChromeOS devices went from 5 M to 7M and then stopped growing. That's only big next to Pixel sales. It's not a significant market, especially for loss leader cheap hardware.

    You come off sounding like a jackass
    gatorguy said:

    Apple says they don't share personal information either. Except when they do.

    So those specific circumstances where Google will share personal information is perfectly OK with you since it's identical to the circumstances Apple will share personal information and you're comfortable with their TOS right?  You went to a lot of effort to arrive at the same set of exceptions you were already aware was Apple claiming for themselves. I mean you were aware Apple also shares personal information weren't you? 

    You have established a reputation for contempt for factually-backed, evident reality and a penchant for making huge unfounded claims.

    Carrying water for Google has made you very boring. You literally never say anything interesting or accurate because you're working so hard to back up a series of false ideas to flatter a marketing company.


    Don't let them get you down, keep up the good fight, and let the truth speak for itself!
    I agree. The truth should be more evident and easier to discern and like you wish it could speak for itself.

    We should all be intelligent enough too that when we can't dispute the facts or truthfulness of a post simply keep our mouths shut rather than trying to compensate (for what?) by attacking the person.

    "I guess I showed him, I called him a name" is hardly a thoughtful response.
    :/
    The truth has been presented, and has exposed you, for what you are, and your flair to twist reality to serve your narrative, which has been proven to staunchly defend Google at all costs.

    This site is littered with posts of people calling you out and proving you wrong, you launching straw man and ad-hominem attacks under the guise of a "rebuttal" to refute their evidence proving you wrong, and thankfully, even DED has taken you to task to showcase your falsehoods.

    After all these years of reading your pedantic, long-winded contrivances of FUD, you won't get any more from me, and I'm sure, many others here, going forward.
    Where did DED prove I was wrong? All that he had in his most recent response to me was character accusations,  no evidence that anything I said was not true. But you claim I'M the one launching ad-homs left and right? I would challenge you to ever find a single instance of me calling anyone names, accusing another member of outright lying, or otherwise attacking their personal character rather than the content. 

    ...And If all you intend to do is the same as you've done here in the past couple of posts attacking mine I won't miss hearing more from you. I think your intent to stop responding to to what I post is a wonderful idea. Kudos to you for that decision and please do hold true to it. 
    edited March 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 119 of 129
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,001member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    wizard69 said:
    Well i see DED is back to wasting bandwidth with a ton of crap that doesnt even touch upon Apples real problems in efucation. The number one issue with iPads is the lack of a keyboard which makes anything other than tribial text entry a psin. 

    The article was not an examination of Apple in education, but rather taking apart a false media narrative that US K-12 is super important that Apple desperately needs to drop prices to get in on this market. That's what it has the headline it does.

    Even so, the article specifically mentioned "features desired by educators, including the Smart Connector for attaching a non-wireless keyboard (that doesn't need to be charged separately) and Apple Pencil, offering a strong differentiation from other tablets." 
    I stopped reading right around "Google began dumping Chromebooks on U.S. K-12 schools over the last few years because nobody else wanted to buy them."

    I could stomach the slant presented through the rest of the article up to that point, but seriously?  This is straight up ignorant.  First of all, I would like to know how Google was dumping anything on anyone, unless it was dumping Pixel Chromebooks on somebody (which they never have), since Google doesn't manufacture any of the Chromebooks in question.  Secondly, if nobody wants Chromebooks, why has their marketshare been basically doubling year-over-year for the last several years?  And why has Google been spending so much time and effort polishing and improving Chrome OS if it's such a losing venture?

    This is Apple Insider, I get it, but please... at least don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them without even trying.  Unless this is the only blog your readers subscribe to,  you just come off sounding like a jackass.
    "don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them"

    - this pro-Google edu statistics group reports that 90% of chromebooks are sold to US/  k-12.
    - Google doesn't manufacture hardware, but it does directly sell chromebooks, and to edu. That's why it has websites with buy now all over them.
    - "Doubling" in education is not that big, and Google hasn't been doubling. It's unit sales of all ChromeOS devices went from 5 M to 7M and then stopped growing. That's only big next to Pixel sales. It's not a significant market, especially for loss leader cheap hardware.

    You come off sounding like a jackass
    gatorguy said:

    Apple says they don't share personal information either. Except when they do.

    So those specific circumstances where Google will share personal information is perfectly OK with you since it's identical to the circumstances Apple will share personal information and you're comfortable with their TOS right?  You went to a lot of effort to arrive at the same set of exceptions you were already aware was Apple claiming for themselves. I mean you were aware Apple also shares personal information weren't you? 

    You have established a reputation for contempt for factually-backed, evident reality and a penchant for making huge unfounded claims.

    Carrying water for Google has made you very boring. You literally never say anything interesting or accurate because you're working so hard to back up a series of false ideas to flatter a marketing company.


    Don't let them get you down, keep up the good fight, and let the truth speak for itself!
    I agree. The truth should be more evident and easier to discern and like you wish it could speak for itself.

    We should all be intelligent enough too that when we can't dispute the facts or truthfulness of a post simply keep our mouths shut rather than trying to compensate (for what?) by attacking the person.

    "I guess I showed him, I called him a name" is hardly a thoughtful response.
    :/
    The truth has been presented, and has exposed you, for what you are, and your flair to twist reality to serve your narrative, which has been proven to staunchly defend Google at all costs.

    This site is littered with posts of people calling you out and proving you wrong, you launching straw man and ad-hominem attacks under the guise of a "rebuttal" to refute their evidence proving you wrong, and thankfully, even DED has taken you to task to showcase your falsehoods.

    After all these years of reading your pedantic, long-winded contrivances of FUD, you won't get any more from me, and I'm sure, many others here, going forward.
    Where did DED prove I was wrong? All that he had in his most recent response to me was character accusations,  no evidence that anything I said was not true. And If all you intend to do is the same as you've done here in the past couple of posts I won't be missing hearing and I think ignoring me is a wonderful idea.  Please do. 
    When one's character was questioned by an editor of the original article, one lost all of his credibilities. How can we take his/her words seriously going forward?
  • Reply 120 of 129
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,122member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    wizard69 said:
    Well i see DED is back to wasting bandwidth with a ton of crap that doesnt even touch upon Apples real problems in efucation. The number one issue with iPads is the lack of a keyboard which makes anything other than tribial text entry a psin. 

    The article was not an examination of Apple in education, but rather taking apart a false media narrative that US K-12 is super important that Apple desperately needs to drop prices to get in on this market. That's what it has the headline it does.

    Even so, the article specifically mentioned "features desired by educators, including the Smart Connector for attaching a non-wireless keyboard (that doesn't need to be charged separately) and Apple Pencil, offering a strong differentiation from other tablets." 
    I stopped reading right around "Google began dumping Chromebooks on U.S. K-12 schools over the last few years because nobody else wanted to buy them."

    I could stomach the slant presented through the rest of the article up to that point, but seriously?  This is straight up ignorant.  First of all, I would like to know how Google was dumping anything on anyone, unless it was dumping Pixel Chromebooks on somebody (which they never have), since Google doesn't manufacture any of the Chromebooks in question.  Secondly, if nobody wants Chromebooks, why has their marketshare been basically doubling year-over-year for the last several years?  And why has Google been spending so much time and effort polishing and improving Chrome OS if it's such a losing venture?

    This is Apple Insider, I get it, but please... at least don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them without even trying.  Unless this is the only blog your readers subscribe to,  you just come off sounding like a jackass.
    "don't say things so completely biased that anyone with eyeballs can refute them"

    - this pro-Google edu statistics group reports that 90% of chromebooks are sold to US/  k-12.
    - Google doesn't manufacture hardware, but it does directly sell chromebooks, and to edu. That's why it has websites with buy now all over them.
    - "Doubling" in education is not that big, and Google hasn't been doubling. It's unit sales of all ChromeOS devices went from 5 M to 7M and then stopped growing. That's only big next to Pixel sales. It's not a significant market, especially for loss leader cheap hardware.

    You come off sounding like a jackass
    gatorguy said:

    Apple says they don't share personal information either. Except when they do.

    So those specific circumstances where Google will share personal information is perfectly OK with you since it's identical to the circumstances Apple will share personal information and you're comfortable with their TOS right?  You went to a lot of effort to arrive at the same set of exceptions you were already aware was Apple claiming for themselves. I mean you were aware Apple also shares personal information weren't you? 

    You have established a reputation for contempt for factually-backed, evident reality and a penchant for making huge unfounded claims.

    Carrying water for Google has made you very boring. You literally never say anything interesting or accurate because you're working so hard to back up a series of false ideas to flatter a marketing company.


    Don't let them get you down, keep up the good fight, and let the truth speak for itself!
    I agree. The truth should be more evident and easier to discern and like you wish it could speak for itself.

    We should all be intelligent enough too that when we can't dispute the facts or truthfulness of a post simply keep our mouths shut rather than trying to compensate (for what?) by attacking the person.

    "I guess I showed him, I called him a name" is hardly a thoughtful response.
    :/
    The truth has been presented, and has exposed you, for what you are, and your flair to twist reality to serve your narrative, which has been proven to staunchly defend Google at all costs.

    This site is littered with posts of people calling you out and proving you wrong, you launching straw man and ad-hominem attacks under the guise of a "rebuttal" to refute their evidence proving you wrong, and thankfully, even DED has taken you to task to showcase your falsehoods.

    After all these years of reading your pedantic, long-winded contrivances of FUD, you won't get any more from me, and I'm sure, many others here, going forward.
    Where did DED prove I was wrong? All that he had in his most recent response to me was character accusations,  no evidence that anything I said was not true. But you claim I'M the one launching ad-homs left and right? I would challenge you to ever find a single instance of me calling anyone names, accusing another member of outright lying, or otherwise attacking their personal character rather than the content. 

    ...And If all you intend to do is the same as you've done here in the past couple of posts attacking mine I won't miss hearing more from you. I think your intent to stop responding to to what I post is a wonderful idea. Kudos to you for that decision and please do hold true to it. 
    Playing the victim are we? There are MANY contributors here, myself included, who have flat-out proven you incorrect (and there have been many), and Daniel's statements were not attacking your character, they was exposing it for what it is. If Daniel was so inclined, he could easily pull up YEARS of your pro-Google dogma.

    Your defensive posture in "show me where I have done this, otherwise it didn't happen" is very telling. You're playing on the assumption that people don't have the time to invest (such as myself, and probably Daniel), to comb thru your lengthy post history to find the "proof", and to make yourself look like the victim to the uninitiated, thus perpetrating the illusion of your innocence and assigning the blame back to myself, or Daniel, or others here.

    And your statement "I would challenge you to ever find a single instance of me calling anyone names, accusing another member of outright lying, or otherwise attacking their personal character rather than the content" is a prime example of a straw man response; you are setting up this straw man to claim victory that you have never called anyone else names or attacked their character, to make it seem like you are absolved of any wrong doing and can claim that my statement is baseless. When in fact, this is not the accusation I levelled against you, it was that you perpetrate false information regarding Google, it's products, it's governance, and adherence to their operational policies, and when proven incorrect, in black and white, you twist and subvert the facts presented in such a way as to appear they are incorrect, and your information is actually correct. A prime example, most recently just from this article discussion, the staunch claim that Apple trusts its customer's data with Google, when this is factually WRONG. Apple does not "trust" their data with Google, as it merely uses Google, like it does Amazon and Microsoft, as a silo to house customer data in a fully encrypted, inaccessible manner. Using a third-party company to host completely scrambled, non-monetizable data does not explicitly imply trust in any way, shape or form.

    I will not stop responding to you, and will in fact vehemently expose any inaccuracies you post to this board, so long as you are allowed to post here, and ensure every one of your fact-twisting, ad-hominem and straw man arguments is exposed. If you are uncomfortable having your falsehoods being exposed, you're welcome to go set up residence on an Android site, where I'm sure this material would be welcomed with open arms.
    edited March 2018
Sign In or Register to comment.