The 2019 Mac Pro will be what Apple wants it to be, and it won't, and shouldn't, make ever...

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  • Reply 221 of 309
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,048member
    Soli said:

    Bottom line: Apple owes you nothing over what they purchase agreement included, just as you own them nothing but the cost of the machine that you choose to by.

    Apple's success was built on the long term commitment if its Macintosh user base and before that the Apple II base. Without this commitment, it most likely would have gone extinct sometime in the 1990-ties. 

    The expectation from the committed user base is that Apple keep investing in them and their needs, and not just deliver a point in time box like most PC manufacturers do.

    Apple used to deliver products that in sum comprised an ecosystem that their committed user base could live happily in, and Steve Jobs in particular understood how important this is for the longevity and continued success of the company.  

    Under Tim Cook, Apple has started peeling away components of the ecosystem removing items such as screens, not upgrading network components, TM capabilities and capacity, lobotomizing the server software, remove server configurations, not refreshing existing systems for literally years, remove the ability for the users to add and replace components to their system such as disk, memory, GPU, battery and other techcnologies gets cheaper and more capable over the lifetime of the system. Now most configurations are frozen in time, while before they could evolve and serve the user better over its lifetime.

    Their obsession with anorexic thinness produce as a result systems cannot be fully utilized or expanded because there is no more room in the thermal envelope for faster components (we see this both in the trashcan and the new iMac Pro), or connecting the system for use in a real world situation leaves the user with a dongle and docking station hell, or a bunch of additional box clutter on their desktops (MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, iMac Pro.) Just to illustrate the madness of the situation, do a quick search for "rack mount for Mac Pro" and have a good laugh!  

     
    Some would say this

    "Apples survival was built on the long term commitment of his Macintosh user base during the 90's before Jobs returned.
    Apples long term success began by extending its "It Just Works" ethos  into consumer products beginning with the iPod.
    As its success grew with multiple smart mobile products iPhone and iPad Apple dropped the 'Computer' from its name reflect its mainstream consumer emphasis.
    With new priorities Apple dropped some existing products like the AirPort Extreme & Express and (temporarily) the MacPro."

    Despite the iOS business being much larger Hopefully they will put significant resources into their Pro Computers with this new group.
    This also why the new hire of the the Google AI guy is so good.

    Lots of Windows programmers like the "It's just works" (and works better) philosophy of Macs when we come home.     
    (MS is re-inventing itself as a cloud company) because they know they will loose the Wintel monopoly they've had on desktops eventually.   Hopefully it is to iOS and not Chrome.


  • Reply 222 of 309
    mtefremtefre Posts: 12member
    Oh, come on! It's a bit simpler than that. Some of us would just like a desktop mac without an integrated screen plus bays for extra hard drives. It makes setting up and maintaining a workplace easier. I've been to a few places where "old" iMacs sit idle even though their screens are perfectly fine. Such a waste. So it's not always about upgrading. It's also about not having to stow away perfectly good hardware.
  • Reply 223 of 309
    Aye.  Simple.

    They had perfectly fine and competitive towers in the Steve Jobs triumphant return.

    He sorted out the Pro line with the Blue and White G3.  Bang cpu speed.  Bang GPU.  Standard components pretty much.  Great access to the tower.  And Sound prices!

    Prices crept up with the G4 line...and again with the G5 line....and again with the Intel line and again(!) with the Art piece thermal corner, 'The Can.'  (A great design which has to be seen in the flesh...  Still don't see what a bumped cpu, two mid range vegas can't be used in the interim.)

    Go to any PC box builder web site.  It doesn't have to be this hard.

    Apple have got used to upsell and squeezing every last inch out of profit out of their products.  iMacs.  Laptops.  Towers.  Phones.  iPads.  All have had their prices upped.  And by hundreds of pounds.

    $250+ billion and it still isn't enough.

    The current can is almost 3x the entry price of the £995 G5 tower (yes...not an imaginary dream...) in the UK.  The entry iMac is almost double the old £595 coloured iMac.  Now?  You're struggling to get any Mac for under a grand with a screen.  A thousand pound is still a lot of money here in the UK.  I don't think Apple get that.  I don't think they truly get that people want towers.  There's a big gaming community.  If you add up all the tower sales Apple aren't getting, they're leaving money on the table.

    I don't believe an entry tower for £1200 that Wizard is asking for is unreasonable.  Nobody thought the iPad would land at £399, they thought it would be a thousand.  At least Apple have in that regard squeezed the price down...but with Google crap tops putting pressure on them in Education... Do they want to lose the Education and Creative markets?  Who is going to program their iAPPs? :disappointed: 

    Apple used to have decent towers for fair prices.  The iMac used to be 'the' consumer mac pc for under a grand (it started higher but had two to three models under a grand at its coloured plastic peak...) and they had towers in the 1000-£2000 price range before customisation.

    Those that wanted the standard could have that.  Those that wanted Nv or ATI could have that.  Those that wanted the best gpu could have that.  Those that wanted to add HDs, screens etc, choice of Apple monitor...could have that.

    I'm really not interested in Apple home pods, ear buds, I've had 3 iPhones now.  (Be a long time before I buy another...)  ATV, iPad 3...  

    Just fed up with the treatment of the creative crowd by Apple.  I have had two iMacs.  My current one could do with being 5k but isn't.  *(shrugs.)  So given Marv's predictions of power in the next two years, I'd be insane to buy now...at Apple's current prices for out of date hardware on both Mac Pro and Mac Mini front.  ('Come on folks, let's call it what it is...'SHAME...SHAME...MEHHHHH....BAA-AHHHHH!')

    Apple could have easily re-tooled the old classic Tower for TB and a couple of GPUs with enough for 4 SSD bays.  They want a model like the Can model where you  can jack up the entry prices, have difficulty upgrading yourself re cpu and memory and HDs...and you buy upfront, jacked up prices from them at point of sale.

    I'll keep my money in my wallet.  Ty.  As a consumer, I want more than glacial improvements and upsell.  I'm going to extract value out of my current iMac.  (Which cost me...about £2200.  Something like that.  It's 6 years old and counting. :dizzy: )

    Maybe in two years they'll release a 32inch 8k iMac Pro worthy of the money.  £5k for that with screen?  Ok.  I'll think about it.  £3.5k for an 8K Dell monitor.  iMac or Mac Pro should be doing that in a couple of years with a gpu bump or two on the way...and more PCI and TB4 on the horizon and more cpu cores...and a memory speed boost...and bigger SSDs.

    Yes.  Intel and GPU specs have been in the '5 year' doldrums for glacial improvement.  Only in the last year did GPU and AMD's Ryzen kickstart things again.  Things are finally moving.

    But does Apple give us the remarkably cheap and fantastic 8 core Multi-Core performance for an entry tower and a Mac Mini boost?  Or more cores in the entry iMacs?

    No.  A cheaper cpu with good cooling.  Ryzen has been a critical and consumer success but Apple's sticking with their stagnated desktop line.

    High prices.  Out of date components.  

    iMac Pro.  I'll give them a few points.  But to seal off the ram, geeze.   It's pricey.  Use a Ryzen 8 core and bring the price right down.  To me, there's an 8 core, decent gpu Mac to be had for £2000-£2500 max.

    Lemon Bon Bon.
    docno42
  • Reply 224 of 309
    Ryzen is good at the multi-core Cinebench scores.  A multicore machine would benefit Apple's core creative community?

    Aren't it's thermals and multi-core competitive?  Can't Apple support more than one cpu vendor?  Or more than one GPU vendor?  If they don't it's political.

    They fell out with Nvidia.  I prefer AMD.  But Apple fell out with Nvidia over the laptop gpu thing...obvious.  They haven't been in since?  I have an iMac with a 680MX GPU.  That's 6 years ago...

    Random comment.  Why can't Apple make the iPad 'Pro' work like an 'iPad Studio' with a nice 17-21 inch model at 4k that can work with iMacs etc.  Craig mentioned that.  Over a year later.  No movement.

    I wonder how Marzipan and muted ARM cpu move in 2020 might converge Macs, modularise and merge...co-opt the Mac / iOS environments.

    Having had a clone tower in 1997 (£1995!) I'm a tower guy at heart but the iMac I have is good enough.  I remember the pace of change when Steve came back to the company.  It seemed that Apple had something shipping every quarter.  Seemed that the revolutionary iMac came out relatively quick compared to the silly gestated period of the current CAN.  2013 (and the the 'two years' development time before that...) to get from there to here, in 2018 with no shipping Pro product.

    But hey.  At least they came out and said what they said.  That's something.  The Edu and Creative markets have money in them.  Lots of it.  They're the markets of tomorrow and the shapers of now.  Lose them and Apple is lost.  

    'Real artists ship.'  Steve Jobs.

    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 225 of 309
    PS.  I'm glad the Tower crowd are vocal, putting the boot in, withholding funds/purchases, moving to Windows.

    It's called consumer power.

    I don't like the smell of the hubris of Apple since Jobs passed.  There's Apple 'no debt' with Steve Jobs...and Apple with debt since Steve passed.

    I suppose you had phone socks under Jobs.  You have watch bands under Tim.  Apple's computing devices are all Macs.  I'm glad they became the consumer 'Mac' company.

    But the treatment of the desktop has been shocking.

    The release of the iMac Pro, while somewhat welcome isn't excusing the Mini or Pro.  Both of which are shockingly out of date and over prices.  £3k.  No k/b or mouse.  Talk about being up yourself.  And not being able to upgrade the ram on the iMac Pro has the similar smell of lock down, upsell.  Pro's aren't stupid.  They recognise that.

    The question isn't whether 'most' people upgrade their tower.  It's about the freedom to do so...to avoid Apple's kick in the nuts upfront upsell.

    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 226 of 309
    Bk on topic re the Article.

    Apple will do what it will?  Well...yeah.

    That's how we got the CAN.  They weren't listening then.  Pros wanted an updated Bauhaus and they didn't get it.  Apple knew best.  Now a contrite Apple admits they didn't...and need outside help.

    *stifles a giggle.

    Price a Tower at £1200 -£3000 like the old G3 tower.  That covers gamers, musicians, video, 3D...etc.  That's lot of sales right there.  If you price it staring at £3k in the UK off your sales are going to be single digits.  Why did I buy an iMac?  Value.  It's in Apple's mind.  They've dragged the iMac upmarket and there fore...the Mac Pro must be even more up market with it's former accessible price point artificially high because it 'can't be lower than the iMac?  Apple's 'low' isn't so low anymore.  It used to be.  Then they got greedy.  Sales and beancounters running Apple rather than A creative force.  Wall street estimations running apple.  Goldman sac debt machine running Apple...etc.  Etc.

    Go to HP's website.  Since they decided not to jack in doing PCs...they have had a design renaissance that frankly embarrasses Apple's stale design over the last ten years.

    I'm not a PC fan.  Obviously.  But Ryzen and Threadripper make me think...what are Apple doing?  

    Gaming.  3D.  VR.  *knocks on Apple's head.  Are you listening?

    It's about choice.  I'd like to have a £1995 tower with the option of a 4k or 8k tower in the next tower years.  I don't fancy my chances.  Apple.  Go back to 1997, go back to the G3 intro with Steve.  Hell, look at the Bauhaus G5/Intel.  Even those seem reasonable compared to the ridiculous trash can.

    We'll see how contrite Apple are in 2019 with the sticker price...

    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 227 of 309
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,082member

    The release of the iMac Pro, while somewhat welcome isn't excusing the Mini or Pro.  Both of which are shockingly out of date and over prices.  £3k.  No k/b or mouse.  Talk about being up yourself.  And not being able to upgrade the ram on the iMac Pro has the similar smell of lock down, upsell.  Pro's aren't stupid.  They recognise that.

    Pro's aren't stupid. Yeah. No k/b or mouse. That's what makes you a pro...
    edited April 2018
  • Reply 228 of 309
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    rogifan_new said:
    [...] how about shit or get off the pot re: Mac Mini. Either kill it or update it.
    Actually, even if they refuse to update it (for reasons that completely elude me), I'd rather they didn't kill it. As long as it's a current model it will continue to receive OS updates. Once it's discontinued the clock starts ticking towards "no longer supported" for units already in the field.
  • Reply 229 of 309
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,534member
    The Owl said:
    What are the chances of this new computer having Intel processors? I'm guessing zero. As Apple is planning on switching to its own ARM-based processors in 2020, an Intel-based machine in 2019 would be obsolete in a matter of months.
    What ARM processor would be able to run the kind of software pros need? If Apple does that they’re basically telling Pro uses to go Windows.
    You're assuming that Apple isn't capable of designing their own custom ARM SoC that's on the same performance level as an Intel Xeon. Their chip designers are firing on all cylinders.
  • Reply 230 of 309
    I'll say it again... to truly meet every Pro's needs, a truly "modular" Mac is needed. This requires a complete rethinking of how a computer is designed.

    Instead of just one box, and having to upgrade that box or replace it when more power is needed, instead, imagine if you just added another box. And another. And another.

    Imagine Mac mini's that daisy-chained together to create a Mac Pro.

    Yes, Grid computing for consumers. This would turn the industry on its ear, and Apple would have an advantage that competitors could not match (easily).

    Now... with Apple TVs and HomePods having powerful processors, yet under utilized, if Apple did build in grid computing, imagine the power you could tap into when on your home network?! Every device could contribute processing cycles to whatever device you are using. Yes, this is possible, and was available as Xgrid in the past. Apple lost their way on that project... I hope it returns.
    This. Going this route would totally fulfill Apple's desires to ship little boxes that never need to be opened. Buy one with a 10 core Xeon and 32GB of RAM and 512GB of storage. Need more storage? Thunderbolt 3 a RAID. Need better than integrated graphics? Buy a TB3 graphics box. Need more RAM and CPU power? But another Mac Pro box and hook it up for seamless grid computing. If they made all these boxes link up in some clever way (and perhaps make them rack-mount standard sizes) they could axe that "but all the wires!" lamenting. I'd imagine the displays Apple comes up with will have built in GPUs too, so the lack of beastly graphics in the lil box with the Xeon and the RAM and what have you would be easier to accept-- and it'd make things a lot cooler, thermally speaking as well. I feel like this is what Apple had in mind with the trash can Pro, but thunderbolt 2 wasn't quite up to snuff. Maybe TB3 isn't either and they'll use a special optical link for the grid stuff, who knows, but this concept strikes me as absolutely the way they'll go. They'd be saying "internally upgradable" instead of modular t'were there really a cheese grater redux in the works. Also- you're so on about this being another way to separate Apple from the competition. Sure there's grid computing out there, but it's not plug and play. I'm excited to see how this pans out. 
  • Reply 231 of 309
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    The Owl said:
    What are the chances of this new computer having Intel processors? I'm guessing zero. As Apple is planning on switching to its own ARM-based processors in 2020, an Intel-based machine in 2019 would be obsolete in a matter of months.
    What ARM processor would be able to run the kind of software pros need? If Apple does that they’re basically telling Pro uses to go Windows.
    You're assuming that Apple isn't capable of designing their own custom ARM SoC that's on the same performance level as an Intel Xeon. Their chip designers are firing on all cylinders.
    They can design something that will run Windows VM or current pro apps as good as they run now? My guess is Apple would start with the MacBook as a test bed for macOS on ARM.
  • Reply 232 of 309
    jdwjdw Posts: 993member
    Soli said:
    You're just acting like en entitled prick because you think Apple owes you something it doesn't. You think they work for you, when you're just one of tens of millions of customers...
    I apologize that I did not quote the rest of your profanity-laced diatribe, but it does make me wonder...  do you ever go outside and take a deep breath of fresh air?  

    I’m not being sarcastic or condescending by asking that question.   I myself did just that yesterday. I did not keep the topic of this forum constantly on my mind, nor do I harbor ill will towards you or anyone else here, regardless of what you said. 

    Sometimes when discussing our favorite computing platform we end up spending way too much time in online forums.  We may even find ourselves using that time to criticize our fellow Mac fans, using words we ought not in polite company, and expressing harsh sentiments that really have no place in a formum comprises of educated people like this one. 

    Not everyone will agree with my call on our beloved fruit company to offer a Mac Pro for the masses akin to the PowerMacs of old. I understand that.   But like Rodney King once said, “can’t we all just get along?“
    docno42
  • Reply 233 of 309
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,168member
    k2kw said:
    Soli said:

    Bottom line: Apple owes you nothing over what they purchase agreement included, just as you own them nothing but the cost of the machine that you choose to by.

    Apple's success was built on the long term commitment if its Macintosh user base and before that the Apple II base. Without this commitment, it most likely would have gone extinct sometime in the 1990-ties. 

    The expectation from the committed user base is that Apple keep investing in them and their needs, and not just deliver a point in time box like most PC manufacturers do.

    Apple used to deliver products that in sum comprised an ecosystem that their committed user base could live happily in, and Steve Jobs in particular understood how important this is for the longevity and continued success of the company.  

    Under Tim Cook, Apple has started peeling away components of the ecosystem removing items such as screens, not upgrading network components, TM capabilities and capacity, lobotomizing the server software, remove server configurations, not refreshing existing systems for literally years, remove the ability for the users to add and replace components to their system such as disk, memory, GPU, battery and other techcnologies gets cheaper and more capable over the lifetime of the system. Now most configurations are frozen in time, while before they could evolve and serve the user better over its lifetime.

    Their obsession with anorexic thinness produce as a result systems cannot be fully utilized or expanded because there is no more room in the thermal envelope for faster components (we see this both in the trashcan and the new iMac Pro), or connecting the system for use in a real world situation leaves the user with a dongle and docking station hell, or a bunch of additional box clutter on their desktops (MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, iMac Pro.) Just to illustrate the madness of the situation, do a quick search for "rack mount for Mac Pro" and have a good laugh!  

     
    Some would say this

    "Apples survival was built on the long term commitment of his Macintosh user base during the 90's before Jobs returned.
    Apples long term success began by extending its "It Just Works" ethos  into consumer products beginning with the iPod.
    As its success grew with multiple smart mobile products iPhone and iPad Apple dropped the 'Computer' from its name reflect its mainstream consumer emphasis.
    With new priorities Apple dropped some existing products like the AirPort Extreme & Express and (temporarily) the MacPro."

    Despite the iOS business being much larger Hopefully they will put significant resources into their Pro Computers with this new group.
    This also why the new hire of the the Google AI guy is so good.

    Lots of Windows programmers like the "It's just works" (and works better) philosophy of Macs when we come home.     
    (MS is re-inventing itself as a cloud company) because they know they will loose the Wintel monopoly they've had on desktops eventually.   Hopefully it is to iOS and not Chrome.



    MS is moving it's priorities to the cloud, not because they are losing the desktop market, but because their cloud businesses are growing quicky.  The lead they have in the desktop market still huge, and now they are expanding to the ARM processors to keep / expand their lead.  And looks like it will a long time until we see something making a difference in the desktop market.

    On the article, I noticed that the issue Apple has is to give options to users.  For example, HP has four models of desktop workstations, starting as small as the Z2 Mini (it's as small as a Mac Mini), one with a single CPU and two with dual CPU.  They made sure entry-level and high end users were covered.  That's something Apple is missing.  Personally I think the current MacPro is an excellent option for many users, but not all of them.  They should had add the MacPro to their workstation line, and not replaced the "grater cheese" model, as they did.
  • Reply 234 of 309
    donjuandonjuan Posts: 61member

    Apple abandoned a certain group of users long ago. There is no going back. 
  • Reply 235 of 309
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    The Owl said:
    What are the chances of this new computer having Intel processors? I'm guessing zero.
    What ARM processor (or even array of ARM processors) can do what Intel ones do?
    As Apple is planning on switching to its own ARM-based processors in 2020
    I like how rumors are instantly being repeated as statements of fact.
    an Intel-based machine in 2019 would be obsolete in a matter of months.
    “My computer’s got the clocks; it rocks; but it was obsolete before I opened the box! You say you’ve had your desktop for a week? Throw that junk away, man; it’s an antique! Your laptop is a month old? Well, that’s great… if you could use a nice, heavy paperweight.”
  • Reply 236 of 309
    jdw said:
    [...] Not everyone will agree with my call on our beloved fruit company to offer a Mac Pro for the masses akin to the PowerMacs of old. I understand that.   But like Rodney King once said, “can’t we all just get along?“
    No. I disagree with your position, therefore you are an idiot, a bad person, and I hate you.

    But seriously, I don't understand all the hostility either. In my work I frequently spend time with colleagues discussing differing approaches to executing tasks and overcoming problems. I'll suggest we should do this, then that. Someone else will insist we should do that, then this. Somehow we resolve it without a single harsh word, insult, or disparaging observation about anyone's mother, then we all go for ice cream. Why some people here become so belligerent is a mystery to me.

    Oh, I almost forgot: Something about what you wrote somehow makes you a troll. If that accusation doesn't change your view of whatever subject we're discussing, I can't imagine what will.
    docno42
  • Reply 237 of 309
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    Why some people here become so belligerent is a mystery to me.
    A combination of this as well as exasperation at the opponent having the sum total of freely available human knowledge LITERALLY at his fingertips, and yet he’s still willfully objectively wrong.
    docno42
  • Reply 238 of 309
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    jdw said:

    I honestly don’t know why some of you throw rocks at us Mac-only buyers who want and affordably priced Mac Pro. I just don’t understand it.  

    ...bringing back the glory days of the Power Mac. Nothing wrong with it at all!   This isn’t me simply being nostalgic. It is common sense. 
    First, because they haven’t made an affordable Mac Pro since forever...ie powermacs so it’s tedious after so many years for folks to whine about wanting a pony (aka xMac). 

    Second, because Apple isn’t about creating machines for frugal people that buy cheaper macs once a decade and expand them with 3rd party enhancements.  Why on earth would you want to cater to that demographic?  At least pros wanting slots but are willing to pay have value as a customer.  

    Finally, it’s infantile to say windoze.  

    You deserve all the verbal rocks hurled your way. Would many of us buy an xMac if Apple finally made one?  Sure but folks have literally been whining about this for over a decade on this forum.  Get over it, go buy a dell and make it a hackintosh.
  • Reply 239 of 309
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,048member
    danvm said:
    k2kw said:
    Soli said:

    Bottom line: Apple owes you nothing over what they purchase agreement included, just as you own them nothing but the cost of the machine that you choose to by.

    Apple's success was built on the long term commitment if its Macintosh user base and before that the Apple II base. Without this commitment, it most likely would have gone extinct sometime in the 1990-ties. 

    The expectation from the committed user base is that Apple keep investing in them and their needs, and not just deliver a point in time box like most PC manufacturers do.

    Apple used to deliver products that in sum comprised an ecosystem that their committed user base could live happily in, and Steve Jobs in particular understood how important this is for the longevity and continued success of the company.  

    Under Tim Cook, Apple has started peeling away components of the ecosystem removing items such as screens, not upgrading network components, TM capabilities and capacity, lobotomizing the server software, remove server configurations, not refreshing existing systems for literally years, remove the ability for the users to add and replace components to their system such as disk, memory, GPU, battery and other techcnologies gets cheaper and more capable over the lifetime of the system. Now most configurations are frozen in time, while before they could evolve and serve the user better over its lifetime.

    Their obsession with anorexic thinness produce as a result systems cannot be fully utilized or expanded because there is no more room in the thermal envelope for faster components (we see this both in the trashcan and the new iMac Pro), or connecting the system for use in a real world situation leaves the user with a dongle and docking station hell, or a bunch of additional box clutter on their desktops (MacBook Pro, Mac Pro, iMac Pro.) Just to illustrate the madness of the situation, do a quick search for "rack mount for Mac Pro" and have a good laugh!  

     
    Some would say this

    "Apples survival was built on the long term commitment of his Macintosh user base during the 90's before Jobs returned.
    Apples long term success began by extending its "It Just Works" ethos  into consumer products beginning with the iPod.
    As its success grew with multiple smart mobile products iPhone and iPad Apple dropped the 'Computer' from its name reflect its mainstream consumer emphasis.
    With new priorities Apple dropped some existing products like the AirPort Extreme & Express and (temporarily) the MacPro."

    Despite the iOS business being much larger Hopefully they will put significant resources into their Pro Computers with this new group.
    This also why the new hire of the the Google AI guy is so good.

    Lots of Windows programmers like the "It's just works" (and works better) philosophy of Macs when we come home.     
    (MS is re-inventing itself as a cloud company) because they know they will loose the Wintel monopoly they've had on desktops eventually.   Hopefully it is to iOS and not Chrome.



    MS is moving it's priorities to the cloud, not because they are losing the desktop market, but because their cloud businesses are growing quicky.  The lead they have in the desktop market still huge, and now they are expanding to the ARM processors to keep / expand their lead.  And looks like it will a long time until we see something making a difference in the desktop market.

    On the article, I noticed that the issue Apple has is to give options to users.  For example, HP has four models of desktop workstations, starting as small as the Z2 Mini (it's as small as a Mac Mini), one with a single CPU and two with dual CPU.  They made sure entry-level and high end users were covered.  That's something Apple is missing.  Personally I think the current MacPro is an excellent option for many users, but not all of them.  They should had add the MacPro to their workstation line, and not replaced the "grater cheese" model, as they did.
    I've had the Cherry Hill Surface 3 with 4GB RAM and 128 GB SSD  and LTE.   It worked but was extremely slow.   Only nice thing was the Kickstand which was nice to have Laying in bed. Because of that S3 I'm doubtful about the QualComm 845 giving decent performance.    I have a new Surface Pro i5 for work. Its nice as a light laptop but windows is still subpar as a tablet.   I expect the 845 to be slower than the i5.
  • Reply 240 of 309
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,771member
    A combination of this
    The author defines the behaviour and explains how it manifests but doesn't offer much in the way of explanations WHY people behave badly online. "Because they can get away with it" (asynchronous communication, no immediate real-life consequences) seems to be the prevailing message. That's not addressing the real issue. I can get away with stealing, but I don't anyway because it's just shitty behaviour. What motivates some people to act like dickheads in the first place is what I don't understand.

    [...] as well as exasperation at the opponent
    "Opponent?"

    [...] as well as exasperation at the opponent having the sum total of freely available human knowledge LITERALLY at his fingertips, and yet he’s still willfully objectively wrong.
    Sure, there's some of that, but most of what we're seeing here is hostile reactions to expressions of opinion and preference. Attacking that is strange behaviour, as there IS no objective right or wrong. I don't care if someone wants Apple to breed unicorns, there's no justification or excuse for responding like an asshole.
    bkkcanuck
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