Activists stage 'die-ins' at French Apple stores to protest impact of tax avoidance on soc...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 80
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,235member
    entropys said:
    You, know, 8 April is th fifth anniversary of Margaret Thatchers death. The [simplified] quote I like best is

    The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money

    They are always after more. Moar!

    The trouble with capitalism is that eventually you run out of people to screw. 
    GeorgeBMacdeminsdsingularitydasanman69muthuk_vanalingammac_dog
  • Reply 22 of 80
    entropys said:
    You, know, 8 April is th fifth anniversary of Margaret Thatchers death. The [simplified] quote I like best is

    The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money

    They are always after more. Moar!

    The trouble with capitalism is that eventually you run out of people to screw. 
    The problem with capitalism is that eventually you run out of people with whom you can make mutually agreeable deals.  The good news is that eventuality never comes.
    Muntzradarthekatracerhomie3tallest skilSpamSandwichdeminsdentropysbshankpscooter63steven n.
  • Reply 23 of 80
    bloggerblogbloggerblog Posts: 1,812member
    Early Europeans fled Europe to evade taxes. Let that sink in for a minute
    Muntzradarthekatracerhomie3bshankwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 80
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,544member
    Early Europeans fled Europe to evade taxes. Let that sink in for a minute
    What?! Where did you learn that?
    GeorgeBMacpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 80
    Don't the Apple stores lose business when such protests happen? And, isn't that legal enough reason to disallow them?

    I can understand protesting outside the stores, but inside?
    edited April 2018 Muntzrandominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 80
    entropys said:
    You, know, 8 April is th fifth anniversary of Margaret Thatchers death. The [simplified] quote I like best is

    The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money

    They are always after more. Moar!

    The trouble with capitalism is that eventually you run out of people to screw. 
    Just shut up.
    tallest skilSpamSandwichmacseeker
  • Reply 27 of 80
    bluefire1bluefire1 Posts: 869member
    If there's an available legal loophole, why shouldn't Apple exploit it. It's what a lot of businesses would do.
    edited April 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 80
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,721member
    What a bunch of Macrons.
    pembrokerandominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 80
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,544member
    bluefire1 said:
    If there's an available legal loophole, why shouldn't Apple exploit it. It's what a lot of businesses would do.
    Ethics, comes to mind as a reason why an individual or company may wish to refrain from engaging in an action that is technically legal. For example, it's legal for adults to marry children in all 50 US states, but I'd say that it's a woefully unethical practice that should be outlawed.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 30 of 80
    viclauyyc said:
    Are they doing their famous surrender act?

    That was hilarious!!
    Shame they’re not actually killing themselves.

    And it goes double for that!!
    edited April 2018 watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 80
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,556member
    All I see here is a group entitled f*cktards causing a safety hazard and defacing private property. Someone should ask them what phones they have in their designer jeans pockets. Most of them will be carrying iPhones. 

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 80
    I’m as SJW as they come, but when “activists” like this target Apple and only Apple for their protests, while ignoring other companies that do far worse, then I know that these activists aren’t so much concerned with social justice as they are with brand recognition. If they can tie their protest to a famous brand (e.g. Apple), that elevates their own profile far more than if they protest a lesser brand that has far less ethical qualms in their corporate behavior and culture.
    Greenpeace has done this, Consumer Reports has done this, This American Life has done this. The problem is, that by targeting only Apple with their headline-grabbing protests, they’re undermining their own social justice agenda, because they’re letting far less ethical companies fly under the radar, and continue doing what they do.
    Apple has admitted to problems in their supply chain, and has taken steps to fix those problems. They publish an annual “Supplier Responsiblity Report” for anyone to read. This report includes problems they’ve identified, and what they are doing to fix those problems. But the headlines will only report the problems, not whether they’ve actually been acknowledged or addressed, or even fixed. In the meantime, competitors will simply deny that there are any problems at all; they will silence any complaints, and suppress evidence.
    It’s kind of a no-win for Apple.
    randominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 80
    sflocal said:
    This is news to me!  Has Apple been avoiding taxes?  I thought Apple paid no more in taxes than it was legally obliged to do so!  Are these moochers expecting people to pay more than they are supposed to?

    Sounds to me like they should be protesting their government and demand whatever changes they need in tax laws.  
    It was legal under Irish Law but illegal under EU law. A bit like, the state of Texas for example allowing someone to do or buy something which is prohibited at national level. The blame lies primarily with the Irish government but also the money-men at Apple and other companies who for decades have been doing similar tax-shifting practices. These guys are WELL paid and will have known full well the deal brokered would have contravened EU law. Just like EBT schemes for multi-millionaire footballers, they were assumed to be legal and above board as simply a "tax avoidance loophole" till the HMRC successfully started winning the cases in court.
  • Reply 34 of 80
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,313member
    Why aren’t they staging these outside government offices? You know, the people that actually write the laws regarding taxes.
    Attac would counter that this is more than laws. The better the laws, the better for everyone but Tim Cook said Apple had 'values' when he tried to defend Apple's position on taxes.

    The EU claims that Apple paid an effective rate of 0,005% for one year in particular.

    There is the law and there is the 'spirit' of the law. There are 'values' and there are 'values'.

    No doubt Attac feels very strongly that Apple is failing on both counts.

    Of course, the goals of Attac have little to do with laws and everything about public opinion.

    Ultimately, Apple cares about that too, for obvious reasons.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 35 of 80
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,313member
    Early Europeans fled Europe to evade taxes. Let that sink in for a minute
    Taxes aren't the problem.

    I have family in Brazil. They have huge houses, swimming pools, even separate houses for guests. They have a security perimeter surrounding the entire residential area, private security and only registered taxi drivers are allowed. All services personnel are vetted before they can work there.

    Life on the inside is bliss. The problem is that life on the outside isn't as good.

    They pay for all of this out of their own pockets. Taxes are a secondary consideration.

    They all visit Europe annually. I have one coming to stay this week. They would love to live here permanently, in spite of tax obligations.

    I have Swiss neighbours here who visit in summer. They pay more taxes in one month than I pay in a year. They own their property in Spain but rent in Switzerland because they cannot afford to buy. They will retire here when the time comes.

    So, on the one hand a group of people who pay little in taxes dreams of living in the EU. On the other hand, another group of people who pay too much (in their opinion) who also dream of living here.

    Clearly, taxes themselves aren't the problem. It is the amount and the perceived value of what you get in return that is the issue.

    Going forward, and thanks to transparency laws, government will be held far more accountable for how they spend our money. More and more projects are being put to the general public in consultation processes and people are learning more about exactly what their taxes are being spent on.
    muthuk_vanalingamwillcropoint
  • Reply 36 of 80
    Florian Mueller at fosspatents.com has an excellent article about EU's proposed digital tax bill and its impact on U.S internet giants; his arguments about how this tax will be bad for the small app developer are quite compelling.

    And, his article lambasting the EU competition commissioner's talk about breaking up Google has several excellent paragraphs in the latter half about the EU's hypocrisy and double standards in tax matters and the so called 'state-aid' clause under which it has hauled up Ireland and Apple.

    Well worth reading to understand the larger context  in which these sit-ins are happening.
    edited April 2018 randominternetpersonpscooter63
  • Reply 37 of 80
    Early Europeans fled Europe to evade taxes. Let that sink in for a minute
    You must be a bit of a history buff I guess. 
  • Reply 38 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,850member
    I signed into these comments just to hear the anti-governemt, anti-taxers spout their talking points.  I wasn't disappointed -- we got the full blast worthy of FauxNews.  I'm not sure if it's more sad or more hilarious!
    singularity
  • Reply 39 of 80
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 447member
    The point of a protest is to bring attention to an issue, and sympathy for your point of view.
    All anyone is doing, here and elsewhere, is talking about the PROTESTORS.
    I'd call their protest a failure.
    edited April 2018 randominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 80
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 447member
    Early Europeans fled Europe to evade taxes. Let that sink in for a minute
    Not really. Most were fleeing religious or ethnic persecution.
    randominternetpersonsteven n.watto_cobra
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