Compared: 2018 iPad versus the Acer Chromebook 11 in the school

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 56
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,167member

    I think you are talking about US. If Apple sells their products ONLY in US, then your comment would be valid. What about the rest of the world?

    I certainly cannot comment on the entire rest of the world, but I recently used Apple Maps almost exclusively* for my last trip around Iceland, the UK and other parts of Europe. Admittedly all first-world countries, I suppose, but some were quite small ones. Never had a problem with Apple Maps for directions in cities or more rural villages, et al.

    *That said, I have and love Google Assistant on my iPhone for getting a direct answer on when a business is going to close today, and what its phone number or normal operating hours are. This is the main area in my personal use of Siri where Google has inarguably done a better job of getting me the actual info I'm asking for, rather than just referring me to the website.
    edited April 2018 magman1979
  • Reply 42 of 56
    I am married to an educator who has taught in both an iPod and Chromebook classroom.

    In general, the iPad is preferred. It is more intuitive. The iPad camera in particular, but also the software, makes it much easier for the students to create and complete higher quality assignments.  

    One of the only advantages with a Chromebook is the built-in keyboard for taking standardized tests. Current standardized tests require writing.

    The other advantage with Chromebook is that the iPad needs a robust case so the screen does not crack. With the right case, iPads can survive a school year.

    Overall, the students Chromebooks had to be replaced more often each year due to failures than the iPads.

    If cost is the main deciding factor, it is too short sighted to only look at the initial expenditure. Administrators and school boards making purchasing decisions should be evaluating the long-term cost of systems before making substantial purchases. Of course, including the academic benefits within the equation would be most wise.


    thtmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 56
    TechAdoptedTechAdopted Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    As a tech coordinator in schools for over 30 years, I've watched Apple's various marketing pushes into schools for a long time. When all is said and done, though, it becomes clear that Apple's interests are aimed at their own bottom line, and not the improvement of education.

    A growing consensus in education is that tablets add little educational value to the curriculum, even in the primary grades. We're seeing "tablet children" in the younger grades who struggle transitioning to mice and even laptop scratch pads, not to mention their other "small motor" skills.

    Tablets are not designed to be much more than consumption devices. The screen keyboard on Apple devices is better than it used to be, but it's still a pain to use compared to others, and a real keyboard is still more efficient to handle text and  menu shortcuts. This is a big reason why Chromebooks have taken away Apple's share. 

    Schools have turned to Chromebooks because it is a competitive product made by many solid companies, supporting a more flexible collaboration ecosystem, and Google contractually protects students from being targeted by advertising when schools sign up for GAFE. Apple cannot compete in these arenas with what it offers.

    Furthermore, unless a school commits to the Apple ecosystem entirely, administering Apple products is far more annoying than Chromebooks, and other ecosystems. But many Apple people will defend their ecosystem to the death without experiencing the differences themselves.


    bigmushroom
  • Reply 44 of 56
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Latko said:
    The problem is NOT the hardware.
    The problem is that Apple simply doesn't have the software that schools need for teachers and students to work together.
    Google HAS THE SOFTWARE. Apple ironically does not.

    What software are you referring to?
    G suite and other Google tools. No single institute is to repeat that with Apple-only server solutions tht break or are incomptabible with content- and exam provisioning and distribution
    G suite is a sack of crap suite of apps and I'm using it because my CEO (I'm CTO) insisted on it, though I'm pushing hard to change to something else (I hate it).

    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 56
    Papagoat Papagoat Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    I am an Apple person and I work in a district with 1:1 technology. K-2 is 1:1 iPads and 3-12 is 1:1 Chromebooks. The single largest advantage of a Chromebook is how well the cloud storage works. A kid or faculty can grab ANY chromebook from a cart, sign in, and their entire desktop is right there. From which files they save to their desktop to their background picture. All the chrome books are identical so each one feels like yours. At home my son just logs into chrome and every file he’s ever worked on from 3rd grade is right there in drive. His calendar. His Google classroom with assignments, grades, messages from teachers. 
    It works incredibly well compared to the iPad carts where teachers and schools have to constantly submit a ticket to tech for specific app that fits into a lesson plan. 
    As a staff person I much prefer my macbooks touchpad and I’m not sure I could live without exposé but the ability of the chromebooks in the classroom is astounding. 
    bigmushroommuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 46 of 56
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    flippysch said:
    I am married to an educator who has taught in both an iPod and Chromebook classroom.

    In general, the iPad is preferred. It is more intuitive. The iPad camera in particular, but also the software, makes it much easier for the students to create and complete higher quality assignments.  

    One of the only advantages with a Chromebook is the built-in keyboard for taking standardized tests. Current standardized tests require writing.

    The other advantage with Chromebook is that the iPad needs a robust case so the screen does not crack. With the right case, iPads can survive a school year.

    Overall, the students Chromebooks had to be replaced more often each year due to failures than the iPads.

    If cost is the main deciding factor, it is too short sighted to only look at the initial expenditure. Administrators and school boards making purchasing decisions should be evaluating the long-term cost of systems before making substantial purchases. Of course, including the academic benefits within the equation would be most wise.


    My own experience with chromebook the keyboard gets destroyed or broken a lot, seemingly that doesn't enter the equation at all.

    From my own experience with many Ipads, put a good quality screen protector and you're and it will last essentially forever.
    You don't need to protect the back or whatever, unless they start throwing tablets against the walls (and then I doubt a chromebook would survive that either).
    If the protector breaks, put a new one on, dirt cheap to do.
    I've had 3 4-14 years old using this on all our Ipads (7 now) and no breakage yet.

    I feel people think Ipads are in fact more fragile than they seem.

    As for writing, I wrote a whole screenplay on an Ipad screen in 2 weeks (yeah a techie trying to go Hollywood ;-) (wanted to see if I could work with that).
    I doubt very much students are writing that much text in class.

    If they need the keyboards for testing, are they all testing the same day, couldn't they just pass the keyboards around from class to class for just that.

    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 56
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    As a tech coordinator in schools for over 30 years, I've watched Apple's various marketing pushes into schools for a long time. When all is said and done, though, it becomes clear that Apple's interests are aimed at their own bottom line, and not the improvement of education.

    A growing consensus in education is that tablets add little educational value to the curriculum, even in the primary grades. We're seeing "tablet children" in the younger grades who struggle transitioning to mice and even laptop scratch pads, not to mention their other "small motor" skills.

    Tablets are not designed to be much more than consumption devices. The screen keyboard on Apple devices is better than it used to be, but it's still a pain to use compared to others, and a real keyboard is still more efficient to handle text and  menu shortcuts. This is a big reason why Chromebooks have taken away Apple's share. 

    Schools have turned to Chromebooks because it is a competitive product made by many solid companies, supporting a more flexible collaboration ecosystem, and Google contractually protects students from being targeted by advertising when schools sign up for GAFE. Apple cannot compete in these arenas with what it offers.

    Furthermore, unless a school commits to the Apple ecosystem entirely, administering Apple products is far more annoying than Chromebooks, and other ecosystems. But many Apple people will defend their ecosystem to the death without experiencing the differences themselves.



    You act like I don't have children seemingly, I've got 3 kids from grade to high school.
    And I'm part of PTA (it's not called that here though).

     I know for a fact the amount of text they produce is so low in a year that I could type it all out in a week... on my Ipad.

    There is almost a wishful thinking here, oh, lets give then a keyboard and they'll become novelists when most have problem doing a 500 words essay even if given 8h to do it.

    The obstacle to producing good textual content is not the ability to type fast, but the ability to think .

    In what way does chromebook help this part?

    That doesn't even take into account the fact that these kids are used to typing on screens ALL DAY LONG (with autocomplete too).

    So, basically you finished with a few lies, an insult and the usual "above the fray" (sic) discussion style.

    I've actually "experienced" the difference myself as mentioned earlier.

    and you haven't even mentioned TCO which IBM proved is way higher for everything non Apple.
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 56
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,877member
    This comparison was an excellent technical comparison of two hardware products.  But, it was also totally, completely, irrelevant.  Worthless

    As a senior system analyst I was trained that every development project contained 4 major (initial) components):
    1)  What are the functional needs of the user/client?
    2)  What are the options to meet those requirements?
    2a)  How well does each option meet those needs?
    2b)  How much does each option cost?

    If I, as an the analyst, had come back talking technical specs and color, first the client would have given me the boot -- followed by my boss (or at least a swift kick in the butt).

    All that matters to the client is "How will this meet my needs?" and "How much will it cost me?".
    While the article did identify costs (at least hardware costs) it said nothing, nothing at all, about what these products do and how they will meet the needs of the teachers and their school -- which in the competitive education environment are all that matter.  And MOST of the functional requirements are determined not by hardware but by software.  

    As long as the kid can read the screen the school district will not care what the resolution is.  But they will care a great deal whether the product will teach the kid what he needs to know in order to score well on the standardized tests the school and teacher are measured by.

    Further, Apple and many commenters here have touted the "Creativity" benefits of the iPad.  But, teachers are not charged with teaching or developing creativity.   They ARE charged and measured by how well they teach Reading, 'Riting and 'Rithmetic.  So, can the iPad teach those things better than a Chromebook?  The article doesn't say.
    edited April 2018
  • Reply 49 of 56
    vmarksvmarks Posts: 651editor
    tht said:
    At a minimum, my children will be using personal iPads to take notes during class. Our school system isn’t 1-to-1, but if it were and they distributed Chromebooks, I would still have my children use their iPads to take notes with a Pencil or whatever cheaper stylus.

    All this Education discussion about Chromebooks and needing a keyboard reminds me of corporate IT, where computer equipment are purchased based on the needs of the IT department, not based on the needs of people who actually use them. No thanks.


    That position falls apart when your kid says, "my iPad isn't getting wifi and the chromebooks do, when I have to work on a google doc or slides project with other kids." It turns out the school in this example has Cisco Meraki access points, has them placed badly for coverage, doesn't want to hear about doing a site survey to re-place them for better dispersion, because his first battle is that he has 1gbit/s for the school, and has apportioned out 1mb/s for any student devices so that teachers can have the bulk of the bandwidth. Your kid is going to take the chromebook because it gets the signal.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 50 of 56
    thttht Posts: 3,063member
    vmarks said:
    tht said:
    At a minimum, my children will be using personal iPads to take notes during class. Our school system isn’t 1-to-1, but if it were and they distributed Chromebooks, I would still have my children use their iPads to take notes with a Pencil or whatever cheaper stylus.

    All this Education discussion about Chromebooks and needing a keyboard reminds me of corporate IT, where computer equipment are purchased based on the needs of the IT department, not based on the needs of people who actually use them. No thanks.


    That position falls apart when your kid says, "my iPad isn't getting wifi and the chromebooks do, when I have to work on a google doc or slides project with other kids." It turns out the school in this example has Cisco Meraki access points, has them placed badly for coverage, doesn't want to hear about doing a site survey to re-place them for better dispersion, because his first battle is that he has 1gbit/s for the school, and has apportioned out 1mb/s for any student devices so that teachers can have the bulk of the bandwidth. Your kid is going to take the chromebook because it gets the signal.
    I didn’t say my kids would refuse the Chromebook. I said my kids would use iPads to to take notes with. 

    Then, your scenario sounds exactly what I just said. The Chromebooks are used because they meet the needs of IT. That sounds terrible. That situation is exactly the same as corporate IT dictating what tools people use because it easier for them to support. 


    jcs2305watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 56
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,877member
    tht said:
    vmarks said:
    tht said:
    At a minimum, my children will be using personal iPads to take notes during class. Our school system isn’t 1-to-1, but if it were and they distributed Chromebooks, I would still have my children use their iPads to take notes with a Pencil or whatever cheaper stylus.

    All this Education discussion about Chromebooks and needing a keyboard reminds me of corporate IT, where computer equipment are purchased based on the needs of the IT department, not based on the needs of people who actually use them. No thanks.


    That position falls apart when your kid says, "my iPad isn't getting wifi and the chromebooks do, when I have to work on a google doc or slides project with other kids." It turns out the school in this example has Cisco Meraki access points, has them placed badly for coverage, doesn't want to hear about doing a site survey to re-place them for better dispersion, because his first battle is that he has 1gbit/s for the school, and has apportioned out 1mb/s for any student devices so that teachers can have the bulk of the bandwidth. Your kid is going to take the chromebook because it gets the signal.
    I didn’t say my kids would refuse the Chromebook. I said my kids would use iPads to to take notes with. 

    Then, your scenario sounds exactly what I just said. The Chromebooks are used because they meet the needs of IT. That sounds terrible. That situation is exactly the same as corporate IT dictating what tools people use because it easier for them to support. 


    Yes, IT dictates...  That's their job.  So, even if kids prefer iPads, IT has a budget and the teacher has a plan -- that's just how it works.  

    An analogy:   When I was working as a nurse in Home Health we were taught that our customer was not the patient but rather the doctor who ordered home health care for that patient.   Yeh, the patient always thought they were #1.   Foolish patients.   It works the same with drugs:   You aren't the customer of the drug company who makes your drugs, your doctor is...

    The same in schools...   You would think it's all about the student.  But, for Apple, Google, Microsoft, Acer, etc...  it's really IT and the administration.  The teacher is #2 on the list and the student a distant third place...
    ... Yes, life does suck.  And then you die.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 52 of 56
    thttht Posts: 3,063member
    tht said:
    vmarks said:
    tht said:
    At a minimum, my children will be using personal iPads to take notes during class. Our school system isn’t 1-to-1, but if it were and they distributed Chromebooks, I would still have my children use their iPads to take notes with a Pencil or whatever cheaper stylus.

    All this Education discussion about Chromebooks and needing a keyboard reminds me of corporate IT, where computer equipment are purchased based on the needs of the IT department, not based on the needs of people who actually use them. No thanks.


    That position falls apart when your kid says, "my iPad isn't getting wifi and the chromebooks do, when I have to work on a google doc or slides project with other kids." It turns out the school in this example has Cisco Meraki access points, has them placed badly for coverage, doesn't want to hear about doing a site survey to re-place them for better dispersion, because his first battle is that he has 1gbit/s for the school, and has apportioned out 1mb/s for any student devices so that teachers can have the bulk of the bandwidth. Your kid is going to take the chromebook because it gets the signal.
    I didn’t say my kids would refuse the Chromebook. I said my kids would use iPads to to take notes with. 

    Then, your scenario sounds exactly what I just said. The Chromebooks are used because they meet the needs of IT. That sounds terrible. That situation is exactly the same as corporate IT dictating what tools people use because it easier for them to support. 


    Yes, IT dictates...  That's their job.  So, even if kids prefer iPads, IT has a budget and the teacher has a plan -- that's just how it works.  

    An analogy:   When I was working as a nurse in Home Health we were taught that our customer was not the patient but rather the doctor who ordered home health care for that patient.   Yeh, the patient always thought they were #1.   Foolish patients.   It works the same with drugs:   You aren't the customer of the drug company who makes your drugs, your doctor is...

    The same in schools...   You would think it's all about the student.  But, for Apple, Google, Microsoft, Acer, etc...  it's really IT and the administration.  The teacher is #2 on the list and the student a distant third place...
    ... Yes, life does suck.  And then you die.
    Hence, my kids will be using iPads for notetaking even if they are given Chromebooks. They would have to use paper notebooks for half their classes anyways.

    Apple also doesn’t have to play the game that way either. As we all know, if it is a race to the bottom, Apple isn’t going to do that. They’ll provide what they think is a better solution and try to take the premium end of the market.
  • Reply 53 of 56
    sacto joesacto joe Posts: 696member
    When have we heard this before; “(x) has won, and Apple should just admit defeat.” Again and again we hear this in this comment stream, or words to that effect.

    Yes, Apple screwed up it’s education market big time. Hopefully, the dead wood responsible for that has been pushed to the side of the road (I heard about some of that dead wood back when my wife worked for Apple in education). But to say Apple has lost this fight is clearly either self-deception or purposeful obfuscation. We are not talking about some inconsequential little company here.

    Money? Please! I’d say it’s a fair bet parents are far more interested in the quality of their kid’s education than in some IT department’s desire to stay employed. Do people actually think the IT depatments have more power than the parents?

    Or the similar gripe that Apple could “afford” to deeply discount it’s products to schools, no matter how high quality they are compared to Chromebooks. Last I looked, Google had net income percentage on a par with or a bit better than Apple’s, in spite of the probability that Chromebooks are steeply discounted. And do you think Google is discounting those Chromebooks out of the goodness of their hearts?

    So the best you could say is that Apple isn’t fighting fire with fire. But like someone else posted, Apple isn’t interested in a computer race to the bottom. They are interested in giving fair value for a fair price.
    edited April 2018 magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 56
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 3,877member
    tht said:
    tht said:
    vmarks said:
    tht said:
    At a minimum, my children will be using personal iPads to take notes during class. Our school system isn’t 1-to-1, but if it were and they distributed Chromebooks, I would still have my children use their iPads to take notes with a Pencil or whatever cheaper stylus.

    All this Education discussion about Chromebooks and needing a keyboard reminds me of corporate IT, where computer equipment are purchased based on the needs of the IT department, not based on the needs of people who actually use them. No thanks.


    That position falls apart when your kid says, "my iPad isn't getting wifi and the chromebooks do, when I have to work on a google doc or slides project with other kids." It turns out the school in this example has Cisco Meraki access points, has them placed badly for coverage, doesn't want to hear about doing a site survey to re-place them for better dispersion, because his first battle is that he has 1gbit/s for the school, and has apportioned out 1mb/s for any student devices so that teachers can have the bulk of the bandwidth. Your kid is going to take the chromebook because it gets the signal.
    I didn’t say my kids would refuse the Chromebook. I said my kids would use iPads to to take notes with. 

    Then, your scenario sounds exactly what I just said. The Chromebooks are used because they meet the needs of IT. That sounds terrible. That situation is exactly the same as corporate IT dictating what tools people use because it easier for them to support. 


    Yes, IT dictates...  That's their job.  So, even if kids prefer iPads, IT has a budget and the teacher has a plan -- that's just how it works.  

    An analogy:   When I was working as a nurse in Home Health we were taught that our customer was not the patient but rather the doctor who ordered home health care for that patient.   Yeh, the patient always thought they were #1.   Foolish patients.   It works the same with drugs:   You aren't the customer of the drug company who makes your drugs, your doctor is...

    The same in schools...   You would think it's all about the student.  But, for Apple, Google, Microsoft, Acer, etc...  it's really IT and the administration.  The teacher is #2 on the list and the student a distant third place...
    ... Yes, life does suck.  And then you die.
    Hence, my kids will be using iPads for notetaking even if they are given Chromebooks. They would have to use paper notebooks for half their classes anyways.

    Apple also doesn’t have to play the game that way either. As we all know, if it is a race to the bottom, Apple isn’t going to do that. They’ll provide what they think is a better solution and try to take the premium end of the market.
    Yes, I agree.   Apple will provide what they think is a better solution.
    Your kids are lucky that you have the resources and are willing to support their learning experience.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 56
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,032member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    macxpress said:
    gatorguy said:
    macxpress said:

    The cost to schools isn't just the hardware. It's also the support and upkeep. That's not any different than in the corporate world, where cheaper hardware isn't necessarily the best choice from a financial perspective.
    Sure.

    But, when a school gets a quote from Acer that says $312 per seat, and one from Apple that says $499 a seat, including support, which is going to get picked?
    $312 wins by a landslide when multiplied by a hundred(s) students/devices. Clearly, Apple isn't playing to win the market. Apple is only hoping to appeal to some smaller niche market which doesn't have low cost as the main priority. I do believe some school systems will choose the iPad but it will be very few. Maybe Apple is happy with that because they won't have to take a large financial hit. I think most of this world is made up of Chromebook users who aren't looking to be inspired. They'd rather just get the job done and call it a day. I get it. Maybe Apple also gets it. Apple could just be satisfied with even a half-hearted attempt at trying to reach those students and teachers who want to be inspired. Apple is saying that if you want to learn the Apple way, you have to pay extra. That's just how it is in this life. You always stand a better chance with deeper pockets.
    Education is a completely different area to work in. It requires TONS of effort, training and yes, creativity. If you don't engage students they won't be apt to learn anything. Maybe schools in your area don't get this so this is what you see and think all schools are like. You can't just have students read and write papers all day long. They will get bored, they will get frustrated and in the end, simply won't care anymore. Crapbooks provide no creativity at all, but rather just reading and writing tools. Schools need more than just reading and writing tools. They need creativity tools.
    iPads provide no creativity at all. That comes from the educators and parents and flows out from the students they motivate. Chromebooks are just as capable of being creative devices as iPads. 
    2 words...Bull shit! Crapbooks can't do much of anything beyond the Google Suite. iPads can't run circles around a Crapbook. 
    Since you're having an issue with spelling I'm not convinced you're an educator with any insight into it. BTW, I would agree with you that for many educational tasks an "iPad can't run circles around a (ahem...) Chromebook." just as you've said, but I'm no educator either. ;)
    Nice ad-hominem attack to deflect against valid points made by Macxpress, your typical BS.
    I wasn't the one claiming BS.
    Oh give it a rest, you tried to deflect Macxpress' statements of fact about performance of the iPad vs a POS Chromebook, and the fact iPad has far more creative apps and abilities than Google's garbage, and you did so by attacking his spelling mistakes. That is a classic ad-hominem attack!

    Did you ever stop to consider the fact that perhaps English is not this person's first language, or maybe he was typing on a mobile device and made an innocent mistake? Nice of you to attack that and claim his points are BS that way.
    His misspelling was plainly intentional, even if it might be perceived as juvenile. First or third language has nothing to do with it.

    If you have some specific point to discuss other than simply attacking me 'cause you've nothing better to do please proceed. Otherwise you're not adding anything to the conversation and for a casual visitor your responses reflect poorly on Apple fans in general IMO. Apple users are supposed to be smarter than the average bear.
    OMG, are you for real??? Clearly intentional??? If ever there was a more idiotic position to take, you just took it! You're taking someone's spelling mistake, or language issue, as validation of your position???

    Forgive me as I go and laugh my ass off at you in the corner!
    You know what that makes you? A Google troll.
    What is wrong with you? Did you not even look at the post I called out for misspelling before making all those silly claims about about me? Here it is:

    "
    2 words...Bull shit! CRAPBOOKS can't do much of anything beyond the Google Suite. iPads can't run circles around a CRAPBOOK."

    https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/comment/3048030/#Comment_3048030
    Do you think his erroneous spelling was intentional just as I said or simply a mistake caused by English being a secondary language for him as you're saying? You retreating to the corner almost sounds appropriate. 
    edited April 2018
  • Reply 56 of 56
    As an educator, I have mixed feelings about Apple’s education efforts, and whether they’re worth the... *ahem* ...effort. On the one hand, Apple’s vision sounds fantastic. But I think the reality is somewhat less shiny. I see kids constantly losing their textbooks, dropping their phones, using their phones and/or laptops to hack into systems. And these are with their own phones and/or laptops. If they’re unconcerned with damaging their own gear, how much less will they care for tech that is given to them by the school? A school would have to factor in a loss of 10% of the iPads or Chromebooks each year, possibly even each semester.
    The bigger challenge though, I think is getting teachers to embrace new tech and new paradigms. I know it happens, and I try to use it in my classrooms, but most of my colleagues are technophobes.
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