Apple may have to make a 1” thick 5 lb laptop again for people who want >32 GB in a laptop...
That was me before I got the current generation MacBook Pro. I didn't care if my computer was thin or light. I just wanted a powerful, well-equipped computer and considered Apple's concessions to power and heat misguided.
Now that I have a thin, light, power-efficient, quiet computer, I wouldn't want to go back. For me, the reduction in fan noise compared to my old MBP is enough to justify the upgrade all by itself. Factor in the reduced weight of the kit I lug around and the comfort of it not ever getting too hot to hold comfortably (which the old one did) and the result is one user who's been won over by Apple's weight and watt conservation.
I'm in the group that will actually buy a 32GB RAM version whenever it becomes available, but I really wouldn't want to give up the improvements offered by the current models to get it. So, I'll wait another year.
Yes, this is the value Apple offers. But it doesn’t negate them doing workstation level laptops. If Apple does it, we expect or I expect the machine to be quiet and elegant, like the iMac Pro is to the iMac.
Just like the low end of the market, Apple doesn’t offer a product for the high performance computing end of the market. Their choice.
brucemc said: Do you find the 16GB limit has much impact on your work?
Define "much."
The answer is yes and no. My income-earning software (Avid Pro Tools) lists 16GB as the minimum for reliable operation and recommends 32GB. I haven't had any really demanding projects in the last year so 16GB has been enough that I haven't thrown the computer at a wall or out a window. Yet. It seems to be fine.
I haven't noticed any slowdowns at all with Photoshop, Designer, Final Cut, or any other typical content creation software, but maybe that's because the primary storage on this thing is so ridiculously fast that it can swap without pain.
So the short answer is 16GB has been fine.
brucemc said: I need to upgrade, so only concern is on the keyboard (will determine if I get the 2017 version or a 2015 model).
I wouldn't say the keyboard sucks, but then again, I would say it doesn't suck. It ain't great. It's good enough that it's worth living with to slice a quarter inch of aluminum off the chassis, but it's not something you'd choose because you love it.
Intels delays are frustrating, but Apple had options. Dell, HP, and a lot more in the same space went to the Kaby Lake G package in the meantime, with much faster Vega graphics with 180GB/s video memory in the meantime.
Intel is frustrating, but so is Apple with them deciding not to do the in between updates.
Agreed, Intel chips are complex than ARM but Intel's inability to produce sufficient yield 10nm chips over 3 years of efforts shot it's credibility. This year, TSMC and may be Samsung Fab moving to 7nm and looking forward not too distance to 5nm,3nm. Question is even if Intel produces good yield 10nm chips in 2019 than how long will it take to Intel move to 7nm and 5nm ? It's time Apple produces it's own multi-core ARM CPU/GPU combination that rivals Intel's processors. Free itself from Intel. Such in-house advanced processor design for MAC products can also help to other Apple gadgets.
Intel is SO incompetent. This is why Apple has to create its own CPU.
That is a gross oversimplification. The laws of physics work the same for all vendors, and the difficulties are similar.
Apple's progress on ARM processors is mostly due to the fact that they’ve been really fast in picking all the lower-hanging fruit, and are able to immediately reap the benefits on their closed systems. This will not continue forever.
The reason you’re pissed at Intel is because they pre-announce and then hit development/manufacturing snags.
The major difference if Apple built their own Mac CPUs would be that we'd all go back to bitching loudly about the lack of updates and how Apple are assholes for not talking to us, because Apple doesn’t announce anything that breaks the accepted laws of physics until they’ve actually managed to do so.
F...ing Intel! They still can’t get their act together on 10nm. While TCSMC (or whatever the acronym is) are going to 7nm wafers and are slowly but surely moving towards 5nm too!
Intel is SO incompetent. This is why Apple has to create its own CPU.
Wasn't half the point of Apple going with Intel that Intel wanted a platform they could drive general innovation on? Now Intel's innovation is directed squarely at server space, Apple's silicone level innovation focused on iDevice. You think Mac devices would have more options to trickle updates from both of these especially in the Laptop range.
F...ing Intel! They still can’t get their act together on 10nm. While TCSMC (or whatever the acronym is) are going to 7nm wafers and are slowly but surely moving towards 5nm too!
Don't take the advertised name at face value. TSMCs 7nm is something between Intel 14 and 10, but by 7nm EUV they should be comparable to Intel 10nm on density.
Still, they're closer than ever in history to Intel nodes.
F...ing Intel! They still can’t get their act together on 10nm. While TCSMC (or whatever the acronym is) are going to 7nm wafers and are slowly but surely moving towards 5nm too!
Don't take the advertised name at face value. TSMCs 7nm is something between Intel 14 and 10, but by 7nm EUV they should be comparable to Intel 10nm on density.
Still, they're closer than ever in history to Intel nodes.
Even so Apple is achieving very high transistor densities on TSMC processes. This combined with vary small CPU's means they have plenty of space for spoecial function hardware.
Crickey, I thought hattig was joking with Whiskey Lake, you know, we’d be needing some whiskey later this year with another Intel 14nm ..
I thought it was a joke too - who comes up with Intel's code-names?
Apple may have to make a 1” thick 5 lb laptop again for people who want >32 GB in a laptop...
Pigs will fly first. Or maybe Ive will fly (forcibly, away from the company that is). Yeah, my bets on the pigs too. Why *isn't* Intel supporting LPDDR4 for Coffee Lake? Is it because the chips are designed more as desktop chips (with Core?), which presumably won't need low-power LPDDR?4?
In early 2014, I migrated from a Dell desktop (ca. 1999 or earlier, Dell Pentium 3) to a late 2013 MacBook Pro Haswell i5 @ 2.4GHz, 8GB ram, 256GB ssd. At the time, I debated 8GB vs. 16GB of memory, given my history of keeping machines for 5-15 years (I've worked in IT since 1978, recently semi-retired from a large multinational firm). Happy to report that 8GB still meets my needs. Only slowdowns I experience are on sites with tons of rapidly changing advertising. May consider 16GB on next machine, or may go from laptop to an iMac or Mac Pro (possibly used). Went with the laptop after trying a Chromebook first (liked the cloud based idea, did not like the absence of iTunes and other applications, at least in 2014).
Wondering if Nvidia has anything that should be considered as a processor replacement? With the delay in several Intel chips, maybe the 7LP GlobalFoundries process is another alternative ("The firm manufactures integrated circuits in high volume mostly for semiconductor companies such as AMD, Broadcom, Qualcomm, and STMicroelectronics."). GlobalFoundries also manufactures, in smaller numbers, chips for certain IBM Unix and proprietary systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlobalFoundries
Comments
Just like the low end of the market, Apple doesn’t offer a product for the high performance computing end of the market. Their choice.
The answer is yes and no. My income-earning software (Avid Pro Tools) lists 16GB as the minimum for reliable operation and recommends 32GB. I haven't had any really demanding projects in the last year so 16GB has been enough that I haven't thrown the computer at a wall or out a window. Yet. It seems to be fine.
I haven't noticed any slowdowns at all with Photoshop, Designer, Final Cut, or any other typical content creation software, but maybe that's because the primary storage on this thing is so ridiculously fast that it can swap without pain.
So the short answer is 16GB has been fine.
I wouldn't say the keyboard sucks, but then again, I would say it doesn't suck. It ain't great. It's good enough that it's worth living with to slice a quarter inch of aluminum off the chassis, but it's not something you'd choose because you love it.
This is why Apple has to create its own CPU.
Intel is frustrating, but so is Apple with them deciding not to do the in between updates.
But what about AMD? Is it able to build a mobile processor with support for 32GB LP RAM?
Apple's progress on ARM processors is mostly due to the fact that they’ve been really fast in picking all the lower-hanging fruit, and are able to immediately reap the benefits on their closed systems. This will not continue forever.
The reason you’re pissed at Intel is because they pre-announce and then hit development/manufacturing snags.
The major difference if Apple built their own Mac CPUs would be that we'd all go back to bitching loudly about the lack of updates and how Apple are assholes for not talking to us, because Apple doesn’t announce anything that breaks the accepted laws of physics until they’ve actually managed to do so.
Now Intel's innovation is directed squarely at server space, Apple's silicone level innovation focused on iDevice. You think Mac devices would have more options to trickle updates from both of these especially in the Laptop range.
Don't take the advertised name at face value. TSMCs 7nm is something between Intel 14 and 10, but by 7nm EUV they should be comparable to Intel 10nm on density.
Still, they're closer than ever in history to Intel nodes.
Wondering if Nvidia has anything that should be considered as a processor replacement? With the delay in several Intel chips, maybe the 7LP GlobalFoundries process is another alternative ("The firm manufactures integrated circuits in high volume mostly for semiconductor companies such as AMD, Broadcom, Qualcomm, and STMicroelectronics."). GlobalFoundries also manufactures, in smaller numbers, chips for certain IBM Unix and proprietary systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GlobalFoundries