A lot of impressive things announced. Your move Apple.
With respect to digital assistants / AI / ML / ambient computing, I would love to see Apple make some serious headway but I'm not banking on it. Google, MS, and Amazon are so far ahead in this area it isn't even funny.
I’d love to know what happened inside Apple that they dropped the ball here. Was it just a failure of leadership at the top? Someone should write a story on that.
Too busy shipping real products at real volume.
So Alexa and Google Assistant aren’t real products to you? Real products are only ones that Apple ships?
Google's presentation was rather impressive and creepy. Apple really needs step up their game, I haven't seen a presentation from them that gets me excited in a long time. Privacy and security are great, but there should be some compromises.
Google's access to sensitive private information really is making their assistant more capable for users. It's still up to the individual if this gain in function is a fair tradeoff.
People keep saying or inferring that Siri is behind behind because Apple doesn't datamine. This is false. They do collect data on you. They just don't sell it, at least at present, not to imply they will, just that they don't. This is a ridiculous excuse, though, for a functionally lacking pseudo AI assistant. The internet is as available to Apple as to Google or others. Apple doesn't have data from Google search input, of course, but the vast reference of online data sources is certainly available. The crux of the biscuit is that Apple is not doing the hard work, apparently, on making the software smarts behind Siri much better. It is not just data - it is how it is used in an AI/assistant, and you don't need to sell someone else's data to make a good assistant.
Google's presentation was rather impressive and creepy. Apple really needs step up their game, I haven't seen a presentation from them that gets me excited in a long time. Privacy and security are great, but there should be some compromises.
They can maintain privacy and security and still come up with improvements. What about what Google presented today, for example, requires Apple to sell your data? Apple does have data on its customers and users, can't say how deep, but is a fantasy to consider them virginally pure and saintly as to sacrifice themselves and not collect anything on you. Everything on the internet is available to Apple other than another company's proprietary IP. Not having access to that and not selling customers' data, is no excuse for the software behind Siri falling behind. It is not a trade-off between privacy/security versus decent AI assistant.
BTW, there was article recently about how to get a copy of the data that Apple has on you:
On mine, I've received a response, and things are in process. I just am curious as to what there is, not pulling at my pearl necklace over it, though. I would if they were doing dastardly evil things, which I do not trust Google or FAcebook, et al., not to do, for reasons made recently obvious.
Go Google doing a number of commands is what Alexa started doing not to long ago. It is a nice feature. Not a HUGE deal. You know what is a big deal? Have you seen Alexa and it's Blueprint? Being able to easily create your own skills?
Siri is following more and more behind. I have a Alexa Dot and a Google Mini which I got during the Christmas shopping season when these things were selling for $40. That way I can personally play with Alexa, Google and Siri and do my own comparisons to my own needs. Siri works well most of the time, but it also lacks in area's and again falling behind. Also not having a cheap $50, or even $100 option is hurting Apple in this area. While I personally think the Apple Watch is a better overall device as it works in every room I'm in and outside and away from my house. But a Smart Speaker would work better in a family environment for a number of people, not just 1 person.
Something I read not long ago made a good observation, I thought. It compared what Amazon is doing with these $50 and sometimes $40 hockey puck Echo Dots, versus a $350+ HomePod. You can say that they are aiming at different targets, and that would be easy to see. But the result is that you can easily have 5-10 of the little Dots all over the house, every room, compared to one, maybe two HomePods.
Personally, I bought an Echo because it was on sale last summer, and I wanted to try it out. Not long after that, I had bought 3 Dots, multiple smart switches, outlets, bulbs, thermostats, etc., and for me, I have found it really convenient to just sort of "talk to your house". I am fully invested in this Echo/Alexa 'ecosystem' now, not just in money, but in our home life. We use them for so much, it is like imagining going back to corded rotary phones, (I was there...), compared to cordless and cellular. I can't go back to not having them around, unless say camping or something. We went on vacations and have brought at least one Dot with us to have in the room for things like weather, time, music, and so forth. Ok, so HomePod is maybe shooting at a different target, I don't know, but it damn sure is not going to ever replace this consetllation of Echo/Alexa devices in our home, and maybe even the car. I do believe that there is a market for home automation and 'voice butler' that Apple is simply ignoring. I do not want to have to hold something in my hand and push a button, or say 'hey siri'. I do have to say wake word 'alexa', but it does now have a follow up mode where you don't have to do that every time, if sequential requests.
One is related to Tim Cook's overly-stringent dogma on privacy and not wanting your data. That's not to say privacy isn't important but there's a trade-off between too much privacy / too little data & poor quality services. The other is Siri languishing for so long under Eddy Cue. He should never have been put in charge of Siri & Tim Cook should have hired an SVP of AI / Machine Learning from the first day he took over as CEO
Gotta say I respect Apple's stance on Privacy and security. That said though, I agree with you that Eddy Cue or whoever is directing Siri has really dropped the ball. Just blaming "privacy" and "security" isn't cutting it any more. By now you'd think they'd have come up with some of these things. Such as understanding parsed sentences, and queries.. Siri should be able to understand the difference between "I want you to do this and that" and "I want you to do this, and if x is true do that as well." I don't see why "Privacy" would impact understanding common idioms like that.
One is related to Tim Cook's overly-stringent dogma on privacy and not wanting your data. That's not to say privacy isn't important but there's a trade-off between too much privacy / too little data & poor quality services. The other is Siri languishing for so long under Eddy Cue. He should never have been put in charge of Siri & Tim Cook should have hired an SVP of AI / Machine Learning from the first day he took over as CEO
Gotta say I respect Apple's stance on Privacy and security. That said though, I agree with you that Eddy Cue or whoever is directing Siri has really dropped the ball. Just blaming "privacy" and "security" isn't cutting it any more. By now you'd think they'd have come up with some of these things. Such as understanding parsed sentences, and queries.. Siri should be able to understand the difference between "I want you to do this and that" and "I want you to do this, and if x is true do that as well." I don't see why "Privacy" would impact understanding common idioms like that.
Up until some time last year, Eddy Cue was in charge of Siri & he definitely dropped the ball. Since then, Craig Federighi has been in charge of Siri so knock on wood that he, and the new AI / ML SVP that Apple hired, can turn things around.
Google's access to sensitive private information really is making their assistant more capable for users.
I’d love to know how you non-developers feel qualified to state this opinion as if it were fact.
Oh, it’s not just me. Larger datasets enable better data mining and when you have better results, you can provide more relevant options. Siri is like a blind bat.
Google's access to sensitive private information really is making their assistant more capable for users. It's still up to the individual if this gain in function is a fair tradeoff.
People keep saying or inferring that Siri is behind behind because Apple doesn't datamine. This is false. They do collect data on you. They just don't sell it, at least at present, not to imply they will, just that they don't. This is a ridiculous excuse, though, for a functionally lacking pseudo AI assistant. The internet is as available to Apple as to Google or others. Apple doesn't have data from Google search input, of course, but the vast reference of online data sources is certainly available. The crux of the biscuit is that Apple is not doing the hard work, apparently, on making the software smarts behind Siri much better. It is not just data - it is how it is used in an AI/assistant, and you don't need to sell someone else's data to make a good assistant.
Things that cannot be performed on the device put Apple at a disadvantage.
Apple had a head start by buying the core research done by Stanford Research Institure and invests billions per year in research. I’m surprised Apple is not years ahead of everyone
Apple had a head start by buying the core research done by Stanford Research Institure and invests billions per year in research. I’m surprised Apple is not years ahead of everyone
Google's access to sensitive private information really is making their assistant more capable for users. It's still up to the individual if this gain in function is a fair tradeoff.
People keep saying or inferring that Siri is behind behind because Apple doesn't datamine. This is false. They do collect data on you. They just don't sell it, at least at present, not to imply they will, just that they don't. This is a ridiculous excuse, though, for a functionally lacking pseudo AI assistant. The internet is as available to Apple as to Google or others. Apple doesn't have data from Google search input, of course, but the vast reference of online data sources is certainly available. The crux of the biscuit is that Apple is not doing the hard work, apparently, on making the software smarts behind Siri much better. It is not just data - it is how it is used in an AI/assistant, and you don't need to sell someone else's data to make a good assistant.
Things that cannot be performed on the device put Apple at a disadvantage.
This doesn't speak to the advanced level of functionality and interaction that is available with the Echo/Alexa devices, compared to Siri on iPhone, etc. They just sit there on the table, listening for a wake word in a sound stream. There's no other interaction in the manner of what Google gets websites, or photos, or what have you. All referenceable data on the internet is available to Apple/Siri. How do they get sports scores, restaurants, historical tidbits, weather, movie times, everything else that Siri can provide at present? Those things are not Apple proprietary. Saying that because Apple does not have a vast cache of my personal data and that of millions therefore they are hobbled in developing a better AI/assistant is not logical. I guarantee Apple has information about their customers. I mean, take the Genius feature in iTunes, that has to be kept somewhere. How can they make recommendations? I don't buy the notion that Apple has to give up our privacy, (i.e. sell it, or make it available outside Apple), in order to have a better functioning Siri. Amazon is not Google, either, and they seem to be doing rather well in this area, comparitively.
“Siri so far lacks any equivalent of the above technologies.” - not strictly true, Siri on AppleTV allows follow-up actions in the form of filter refinement.
Unfortunately, Siri is inconsistent across devices which is disappointing. By now Siri should be a single virtual entity able to track multiple conversations across multiple devices i.e. you just ask a question, like directions, and Siri takes the request on the nearest viable device, like AirPods, and answers via the nearest viable device like your car head unit or iPhone - not a HomePod or AirPods.
The other day I spoke to my nearby iPhone X and asked Siri to set a timer for 3 minutes. When the timer was done I told Siri “Do that again.” Siri responded by saying “hang on let me listen... hmm I don’t recognize that song.”
I then asked my nearby Echo’s Alexa to set a timer for 3 minutes. When it was done I told Alexa “Do that again” and it immediately set another timer for 3 minutes.
I love Apple but am disappointed the Siri is falling so far behind in the basics. It feels like Siri is a soon to be discontinued product and that Apple has moved onto other things like Augumented Reality.
The “continued conversations” seems like an easy thing to implement and makes a lot of sense. I also like being able to make separate requests in the same sentence (although “turn on the popcorn maker” is probably not a great example, I imagine one would have to put popcorn into the popcorn maker prior to turning it on and at that point it would likely be easier to turn it on by hand right then. At least, that’s how it works for me...)
Have we seen any changes to Siri that can be directly attributed to any of those recent (as in the last couple of years) acquisitions we’ve heard about, like VocalIQ, etc.?
I think they should just wait a year and spend that time making a real assistant... why isn't everything like the Jetson's already! Siri should be a physical maid that actually could pop popcorn and even feed it to me.
Google's access to sensitive private information really is making their assistant more capable for users.
I’d love to know how you non-developers feel qualified to state this opinion as if it were fact.
Well, it’s either that or Apple is totally inept. After all, if access to data isn’t making GA more capable, then why is Siri so pathetic? Sorry, you can’t have it both ways. Either data is important or Apple’s developers aren’t capable. Which is it?
Google's presentation was rather impressive and creepy. Apple really needs step up their game, I haven't seen a presentation from them that gets me excited in a long time. Privacy and security are great, but there should be some compromises.
Agreed. Googles presentation was exciting and inspiring. We haven’t seen that from Apple in years.
Google's presentation was rather impressive and creepy. Apple really needs step up their game, I haven't seen a presentation from them that gets me excited in a long time. Privacy and security are great, but there should be some compromises.
None. Privacy and security isn’t the issue. Siri sucks in many trivial ways such as keeping conversations going, understand relevance and context, “intelligence” and voice recognition.
Simple things such as apostrophes (which I didn't intend) can stop Siri from understanding and recognising whole sentences. Which has nothing to do with privacy, or security:
Or how about if I ask I a math question and use a measurement for just of the numbers—it should assume I’m looking for a distance related answer, or at a minimum ask me if I'm looking for distance or area. It kicks me to the web:
And don’t get me started on voice recognition. Sometimes Ok, sometimes incredibly bad and frustrating. And hasn’t improved any for me in the last few years. Even when it became tuned for my country it improved zero in understanding my words and accent, and my accent isn’t that strong (I've been told so a few times) and I don’t speak quickly.
Also worth pointing out that I have given many specific feedbacks about Siri over the last couple of years, only to see them remain unfixed.
Google's presentation was rather impressive and creepy. Apple really needs step up their game, I haven't seen a presentation from them that gets me excited in a long time. Privacy and security are great, but there should be some compromises.
None. Privacy and security isn’t the issue. Siri sucks in many trivial ways such as keeping conversations going, understand relevance and context, “intelligence” and voice recognition.
Simple things such as apostrophies it adds stop it from understand and recognising whole sentences. Which has nothing to do with privacy or security:
Or how about if I ask I a math question by only use a measurement for one of the numbers—it cannot assume I’m looking for a distance related answer, or at a minimum ask me back if I was distance or area. It can only kick me to the web:
Again, not privacy or security. And don’t get me started on voice recognition. Sometimes Ok, sometimes incredibly bad and frustrating. And hasn’t improved any in the last few years at understanding me. Even when it became tuned for my country it improved zero in understanding me and my accent isn’t that strong and I don’t speak quickly.
Also worth pointing out I’ve given many specific feedbacks about Siri, only to see them go unfixed.
Could not have said it better myself. I don’t have an accent and it doesn’t recognize basic stuff. Recently I asked Siri to call a close friend while driving. Then it said “do you want to confirm so and so is your mother?” WTF???? It’s horrible.
Comments
BTW, there was article recently about how to get a copy of the data that Apple has on you:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/apple-took-8-days-to-give-me-the-data-it-had-collected-on-me-it-was-eye-opening/ar-AAwJ5Ej
On mine, I've received a response, and things are in process. I just am curious as to what there is, not pulling at my pearl necklace over it, though. I would if they were doing dastardly evil things, which I do not trust Google or FAcebook, et al., not to do, for reasons made recently obvious.
Personally, I bought an Echo because it was on sale last summer, and I wanted to try it out. Not long after that, I had bought 3 Dots, multiple smart switches, outlets, bulbs, thermostats, etc., and for me, I have found it really convenient to just sort of "talk to your house". I am fully invested in this Echo/Alexa 'ecosystem' now, not just in money, but in our home life. We use them for so much, it is like imagining going back to corded rotary phones, (I was there...), compared to cordless and cellular. I can't go back to not having them around, unless say camping or something. We went on vacations and have brought at least one Dot with us to have in the room for things like weather, time, music, and so forth. Ok, so HomePod is maybe shooting at a different target, I don't know, but it damn sure is not going to ever replace this consetllation of Echo/Alexa devices in our home, and maybe even the car. I do believe that there is a market for home automation and 'voice butler' that Apple is simply ignoring. I do not want to have to hold something in my hand and push a button, or say 'hey siri'. I do have to say wake word 'alexa', but it does now have a follow up mode where you don't have to do that every time, if sequential requests.
Unfortunately, Siri is inconsistent across devices which is disappointing. By now Siri should be a single virtual entity able to track multiple conversations across multiple devices i.e. you just ask a question, like directions, and Siri takes the request on the nearest viable device, like AirPods, and answers via the nearest viable device like your car head unit or iPhone - not a HomePod or AirPods.
Apple need to sharpen up.
I then asked my nearby Echo’s Alexa to set a timer for 3 minutes. When it was done I told Alexa “Do that again” and it immediately set another timer for 3 minutes.
I love Apple but am disappointed the Siri is falling so far behind in the basics. It feels like Siri is a soon to be discontinued product and that Apple has moved onto other things like Augumented Reality.
Simple things such as apostrophes (which I didn't intend) can stop Siri from understanding and recognising whole sentences. Which has nothing to do with privacy, or security:
Or how about if I ask I a math question and use a measurement for just of the numbers—it should assume I’m looking for a distance related answer, or at a minimum ask me if I'm looking for distance or area. It kicks me to the web:
And don’t get me started on voice recognition. Sometimes Ok, sometimes incredibly bad and frustrating. And hasn’t improved any for me in the last few years. Even when it became tuned for my country it improved zero in understanding my words and accent, and my accent isn’t that strong (I've been told so a few times) and I don’t speak quickly.
Also worth pointing out that I have given many specific feedbacks about Siri over the last couple of years, only to see them remain unfixed.