Oh boy...here we go! Continuous bitching about the Mac mini. I doubt most here are gonna buy one anyways.
Of course not. To be frank, you would have to be a brainless idiot to buy the current insult of a Mac mini.
I get that most of the money comes from the iPhone, so it’s the priority. But the most stupid thing about the neglect and/or gimping of pretty all Mac lines over an extended period is that it is mistreating Mac buyers, who are the most loyal long term buyers of all things Apple, and have always been the greatest evangelists for its platforms and ecosystems. Neglecting and deliberately crippling functionality and utility of macs by design, and then failing to at the least keep them up to date is beyond the pale.
Divorce is ugly. And just like a neglected and spourned spouse, lovers can be turned into passionate haters.
This comment right here tells me Apple is working on something new. Maybe their own CPUs, maybe some new computing paradigm. The Mac Mini seems to be hanging around to serve those who have adopted that form factor and therefore have displays and keyboards and other peripherals associated with it; if their mini dies they can get a new one. But it doesn’t seem logical that Apple views a PC they haven’t updated for 4+ years as a viable alternative to, say, iMac for new buyers. And without Apple branded displays the Mac Mini really is just compute power in a black box you shove to the back corner of your desktop. Doesn’t seem that’s what Apple is in business to provide. Apple designs and sell a unique user experience and the Mac Mini doesn’t much provide that. So out it goes, unless it can be reinvented.
Since Steve Jobs passing, I've slowly left the Apple Ecosystem that I was once pulled into.
Apple either abandoned software programs or striped them of so many features I've moved on to Third Party software. Apple abadnoned monitors so I've moved on to third party monitors. Apple abandoned routers so I've moved on to third party routers. Apples abadoned the mac mini so I created several hackintoshes to fill the void but those are mostly running windows 10 now full time.
I've fallen in love with the Microsoft Surface line since they have managed to merge laptop/tablet/desktop well enough that you don't encounter the sever trade offs you get between Mac OS and iOS software and devices.
Homekit is a joke. Where are the products and, what is there, have sever issues. Follow Googe Nest and make your own line of products Apple. Your no longer a computer company but consumer company so fulfill that role.
I stopped reading after “ Steve Jobs passing” as all you can offer is some fantasy land narrative about the existence of some supposed Steve Jobs clone that will carry on with what you perceive as some mystical person that can do no wrong.
Please stop as it offers nothing realistic to the discussion. Please.
Amen.
Agree that it is a waste of time engaging in the 'if SJ were alive then ...' deal. That said, just replace "Steve Jobs Passing" with "2011" - it is just a milestone date. CS2305 makes valid some observations and inferences so, in my view, has contributed to the discussion.
Apple, for most of their existence, used a business model of selling self-contained hardware / software ecosystems. The software is written to work with a specific hardware set which is why the ecosystem is generally very reliable. In time, the self-contained ecosystem model extended to the whole house when Apple devices were connected with each other via an Apple AirPort access point. Just plug them in and use them ... they 'just work'.
Then affordable high speed Internet access at home became the norm and with that, the emergence of multi-vendor Cloud IT services replacing functionality that traditionally existed in the Apple self-contained ecosystem at home. The proliferation of multi-vendor Cloud services has meant that ever-increasing parts of the IT home function are now external to the self-contained ecosystem architecture.
Eventually, we may all have a 'NUC' that connects to the Cloud with all home IT functions existing as services within the Cloud. Maybe Apple, looking forward a few years ago, just came to the conclusion that self-contained ecosystems in the home have an entirely different paradigm from ~2015 forward. Apple may be letting some of their product wither on the vine as the fully self-contained ecosystem just isn't a reality in 2018.
I work in technical area of IT but when I get home, I don't want more of the same. That is why I chose to adopt Apple's ecosystem at home years ago ... just plugged it in, it talked to everything else with an Apple logo on it and 'just worked' as the years went by. Now I am looking at meshed wireless topology at home but with Apple no longer making wireless routers I have to look at other vendors. Had a Mac Mini originally as a home media server but movies and music are just streamed from the Cloud by whoever these days - the Mac Mini was boxed years ago. It is obvious, to me at least, that the Apple self-contained ecosystem at home has more years behind it than in front of it.
If the Intel NUC ran a legal copy of macOS, how many readers out there would still buy a Mac Mini? Would Apple even bother or just obsolete the Mac Mini and put the Intel NUC on the Apple Store HomeKit page? Look at the Apple Store HomeKit page ... we have D-Link, NETGEAR, Nanoleaf, Elgato, Phillips & Schlage but no Apple.
Finally, I generally agree with JCS2305 that Apple has morphed into a utility / consumer company and his view is 'OK ... no problem, then just be that'.
I've been wanting to purchased a Mac mini for some time now for an office, but kept waiting for a refresh. I hope Apple does something sooner or later, or if anything, put a fire-sale on the current Mac to reflect the real price depreciation of the unit and I'll snap one up.
What a shame. I think Apple is dropping the ball here.
The mac mini has been my worst experience ever on a mac. Wish I hadn't gotten one. I mean, who hard wires RAM onto the motherboard anymore? And 4GBs??? There has been improvement, but I'm doing maintenance on a weekly basis (cache purging). I should have just ponied up the extra $$ and got the iMac.
I've been wanting to purchased a Mac mini for some time now for an office, but kept waiting for a refresh. I hope Apple does something sooner or later, or if anything, put a fire-sale on the current Mac to reflect the real price depreciation of the unit and I'll snap one up.
What a shame. I think Apple is dropping the ball here.
The mac mini has been my worst experience ever on a mac. Wish I hadn't gotten one. I mean, who hard wires RAM onto the motherboard anymore? And 4GBs??? There has been improvement, but I'm doing maintenance on a weekly basis (cache purging). I should have just ponied up the extra $$ and got the iMac.
What do you mean "anymore." Do you have a Mac from the 1980s with RAM soldered to the motherboard? If you do, that'll be worth a lot of money. Well, except that it's a fake.
RAM is soldered for a variety of reasons. It's ridiculous to be dumbfounded that RAM on an iPhone has soldered RAM on its motherboard. Are there lots of Android phones with socketed RAM you'd like to point out?
If 4GiB of RAM wasn't enough for you then you should've gotten more RAM, or if the soldering of RAM on a motherboard was some egegious issue then you shouldn't have gotten a Mac mini…. or a MB, or a MBP, or an iPhone, or an iPad, or an Apple Watch, or an iPod, or AirPods, or an AirPort, or countless other products by Apple and 3rd parties.
Good luck with your iMac. You better get a non-Pro 27" iMac if you want easy access to RAM because otherwise it's as good as soldered for someone like you.
PS: Bullshit on your "weekly cache purging" claim.
Apple has never remotely considered computing performance v cost. It chooses to act like it exists in an impenetrable vacuum an order of magnitude away from them what buy Windows/Linux PC's. The only thing differentiating a Mac from a Windows/Linux PC is OSX (and the inability to upgrade every component at will) which Apple and Apple users seemingly care more for than the component specs which make the sum of their chosen computer. I can never envisage a time when Apple will produce any great value for money product. It simply isn't in its genes. Sadly, this may continue to stifle Apple computer design teams with disastrous consequences. If, as rumoured, Apple shift into the design and manufacturing of their own desktop/laptop CPU's, I'm pretty sure they will drop BootCamp/Windows operability and restrict users to deploying MacOS exclusively. Unless they can produce CPU's doubling the best Intel can conjure up (which isn't going to happen) Apple computers will be targeted at and continue to sell to a marginalised market.
Oh boy...here we go! Continuous bitching about the Mac mini. I doubt most here are gonna buy one anyways.
Every time there is a discussion about the Mac Mini you come out like an idiot dissing everyone who says they have machines they want to replace, they have a requirement for better and faster processing and memory, or they actually want to buy a Mac Mini new system.
You are only doing the community of Mac users a massive disservice both by pointing them to (often inferior) alternatives to Apple, but you are also doing Apple a disservice by encouraging their current or potential customers to go elsewhere.
Apple's Mac Mini was poorly conceived and poorly executed. It was never meant to be a media center pc. It was meant as a cheap introduction to the Apple OS with a bring your own keyboard/monitor philosophy to appeal to Windows converts. Even later in the life cycle with many users use sing the hdmi on their main tv, no change was made to better gpu options. The mac mini should be reborn with the capability to stream 4k content and designed to appeal to cord cutters who only sometimes need a "computer". Apple thinks that the appletv fills this purpose so it probably won't happen.
Why? Use Apple TV for that. If you want to stream from a local source, use iTunes or Plex client on Apple TV.
Mike, thanks so much for your NUC specs I've spent ages trying to figure out what would be a good configuration. I want one for the same reasons as you, Steam mostly but also as a Opensim server. I have a few things on my shopping list just now, the NUC and a new laptop in the short term and the MP in 2019... or will that be 2020?
I currently use a maxed out RAM and SSD modded 2012 Mac mini it was beyond absolutely horrible to work on internally for upgrading anything and I read I am lucky, later models are even worse. It's running Boot Camp for the Opensim server using 90% of its capacity for Windows i.e macOS is at the minimum. An NUC makes far more sense.
Frankly I like Windows 10 Professional a lot ... this after hating Windows since it came out. I do wish Home allowed RDT ... and I know there are hacks but they break every time there is an major update ... and I run my server headless so I have fork out the extra $ to use Pro. I use VMWare and W10 on my Mac Pro on one of its three screens screen with RDT to control the Windows server. VMWare fires up the Win10 VM in seconds (all my VMs are on a 16 TB RAID 0) and the RDT launches in seconds too, I am very happy with this configuration. RDT over ethernet is so fast I can run high end games with good frame rates in the VM/RDT using the graphics of the Mac mini, I'd be interested to see the better GPU in the NUC in this set up (not sure if 4K is supported this way). I have to have a VM of 10.12 too as our Fujitsu Scansnap has no drivers for 10.13 and never will have apparently, it works perfectly in the VM.
Meanwhile I also want a new laptop just for carrying around as my aged 2010 MBP 15: weighs a ton (although still working perfectly with an SSD , its optical removed for weight loss and High Sierra) and I think will be going MBA even with no 2018 Retina version sadly, but good enough for web reading .. but I am still wavering, I really wanted Retina. I am typing this on the wife's MBA just to see what it is like to use and I am not impressed with the screen . It does have the card slot for my Canon cameras, nothing else does. What to do, what to do?
Of course as mentioned I wait for the next Mac Pro which I may or not need, my current 6 core, now with all upgradeable components maxed out, still rocks. Who am I kidding ... of course there will be reasons to get a new one ... Apple's VR maybe? modern I/O, Hardware accelerated H256 ... it never ends does it?
I've been wanting to purchased a Mac mini for some time now for an office, but kept waiting for a refresh. I hope Apple does something sooner or later, or if anything, put a fire-sale on the current Mac to reflect the real price depreciation of the unit and I'll snap one up.
What a shame. I think Apple is dropping the ball here.
The mac mini has been my worst experience ever on a mac. Wish I hadn't gotten one. I mean, who hard wires RAM onto the motherboard anymore? And 4GBs??? There has been improvement, but I'm doing maintenance on a weekly basis (cache purging). I should have just ponied up the extra $$ and got the iMac.
What do you mean "anymore." Do you have a Mac from the 1980s with RAM soldered to the motherboard? If you do, that'll be worth a lot of money. Well, except that it's a fake.
RAM is soldered for a variety of reasons. It's ridiculous to be dumbfounded that RAM on an iPhone has soldered RAM on its motherboard. Are there lots of Android phones with socketed RAM you'd like to point out?
If 4GiB of RAM wasn't enough for you then you should've gotten more RAM, or if the soldering of RAM on a motherboard was some egegious issue then you shouldn't have gotten a Mac mini…. or a MB, or a MBP, or an iPhone, or an iPad, or an Apple Watch, or an iPod, or AirPods, or an AirPort, or countless other products by Apple and 3rd parties.
Good luck with your iMac. You better get a non-Pro 27" iMac if you want easy access to RAM because otherwise it's as good as soldered for someone like you.
PS: Bullshit on your "weekly cache purging" claim.
I hope Apple does something sooner or later, or if anything, put a fire-sale on the current Mac
Note that Fry’s has regular sales on the current Mini in the $360 range. Someone I know just bought these to equip a doctor’s office, for which they’re probably perfect at this price.
If there isn't a new mini in June, I'm going to be building a bunch of Hackintoshes for a client. They don't have to be as small as the mini, but he does not want computers with built in screens, so the iMac is a deal killer for him. I'll be putting together smallish quad i7 boxes with 32GB RAM and 500GB SSDs, and I expect they'll be a bit over $1k each.
He's got 2009 minis now. The RAM is maxed at 8GB, and they've got SSDs now, but they're pretty much worn out, they're stuck at 10.11, and he wants to replace them with minis, has wanted to replace them for a few years now. But the 2014s are s**t, and he's uncomfortable buying used 2012s.
So, if there's no acceptable new mini announced next month, Apple is losing this sale, Hackintosh here we come. And I'm confident he's not the only one who will be going that way.
Oh boy...here we go! Continuous bitching about the Mac mini. I doubt most here are gonna buy one anyways.
Every time there is a discussion about the Mac Mini you come out like an idiot dissing everyone who says they have machines they want to replace, they have a requirement for better and faster processing and memory, or they actually want to buy a Mac Mini new system.
You are only doing the community of Mac users a massive disservice both by pointing them to (often inferior) alternatives to Apple, but you are also doing Apple a disservice by encouraging their current or potential customers to go elsewhere.
I'm sure I provide more of an Apple service to the community than you ever will. Thank you for your contribution to this thread if that's all you had to say. I must have struck a nerve as you had to resort to name calling like a child. Thats just too bad...especially for someone with a whopping 23 posts in this particular community.
The thing is...the Mac mini isn't a big seller. Even when it was being updated it wasn't a big seller. We're also an Apple specific forum so while it sounds like EVERYONE wants a new Mac mini, thats not always the case. Just like EVERYONE wants a new Mac Pro and everyone has their own idea of what a Mac Pro should have in it, or even a Mac mini for that matter.
Apple knows WAY more than anyone of us here. For all we know Apple could be working on a brand new Mac mini, or they could just be riding the small wave its on until it decides to kill it. Tim however did say we love the Mac mini and will have more news on it soon (paraphrasing there). This leads me to believe Apple is doing something with the Mac mini. Macs are not just a bunch of off the shelf parts slapped together like some here continuously and falsely say. It takes time to design, engineer, and bring a product to market....usually around 2yrs, sometimes more depending on what they're doing. In the mean time, maybe they could put a better CPU in it, but its not just as easy as slap a different CPU in it and call it good. Again, we have to remember this is a very low margin product for Apple with poor sales (again even when they were updated). The Mac mini existed in the first place as a "cheap" Mac to get switchers to come to the Mac. We're lucky its lasted as long as it did and Apple continues to invest in such a product.
I'm also not going to play complete fanboy here and say everyone needs to own a Mac. They aren't for everyone and if they can find something else thats better then go buy it. I'm in no position to tell someone they're an idiot for buying a different brand. Its no different than those who call each other names because they own a RAM instead of a Ford truck. If they want to go buy it and try the other side of the world then by all means go do it. Maybe it will work out better for them anyways.
I'm a person who works in IT who supports macOS, iOS, ChromeOS, Android, and Windows all in one organization. Believe me...I know what works and what doesn't, but I always let people get what they want. So maybe I encourage those to go elsewhere. Some do and some don't. Some do and wish they hadn't. Apple can't be everything to everyone and people like you need to realize that.
cgWerks said: Thanks Mike. How loud are these things.... idle, doing lighter work, and when pushing them?
It may vary per model, but mine is about the same volume as when I put my 2012 i7 mini under load -- and certainly quieter than the eGPU.
Cool, I didn't have a quad-core when I had my Mini, but I remember it being pretty silent overall and quieter (or at least much less annoying) than my MBP when it was under load. re: eGPU, yeah, that would be my main concern about adding one... noise.
I really wish the industry put more emphasis on quiet cooling. It seems that often, a bit more work on case design, or even spending a few more dollars on a better fan would make a huge difference. I used to have a pretty nice amp (studio quality), that I ended up selling because it was just to dang noisy, mostly due to one of those tiny, cheap fans.
Apple's Mac Mini was poorly conceived and poorly executed. It was never meant to be a media center pc. It was meant as a cheap introduction to the Apple OS with a bring your own keyboard/monitor philosophy to appeal to Windows converts. Even later in the life cycle with many users use sing the hdmi on their main tv, no change was made to better gpu options. The mac mini should be reborn with the capability to stream 4k content and designed to appeal to cord cutters who only sometimes need a "computer". Apple thinks that the appletv fills this purpose so it probably won't happen.
Yeah, a lot of people used it for media centers, but that wasn't the point. You're right it was initially about 'switchers' as far as I can recall (something Apple probably doesn't care about at this point). But, it became super-popular for all kinds of uses, even in the server room. At one point, we had like 20-30 of them all doing various app-server and test-server purposes where I worked at the time (in a server rack).
I see the Mini either going to A-series chips as a re-born 'test' of that concept for the low-end of the Mac market, or Mac/iOS transition kind of device. Or, they could properly update it to be a headless low-to-mid Mac, which is what many of us here are hoping for, I think.
k2kw said: I expect Apple to be around in 100 years and Mac computers to be around too, just not the Mini unfortunately.
100 years? I suppose that's possible, but things are going to drastically change in 100 years. I doubt the country Apple exists in will be around in a 100 years. I also doubt the Mac and iOS devices will be around in 100 years. Whether Apple still exists, doing whatever it is people do in 100 years, will depend on whether they choose to stick to your origins of product/UX priority, or whether they head down the fashion/popularity/profits path they've been flirting with.
Apple has never remotely considered computing performance v cost. It chooses to act like it exists in an impenetrable vacuum an order of magnitude away from them what buy Windows/Linux PC's. ... If, as rumoured, Apple shift into the design and manufacturing of their own desktop/laptop CPU's, I'm pretty sure they will drop BootCamp/Windows operability and restrict users to deploying MacOS exclusively. Unless they can produce CPU's doubling the best Intel can conjure up (which isn't going to happen) Apple computers will be targeted at and continue to sell to a marginalised market.
Well, they never tried to compete solely based on cost, but there was a time when Macs were faster than PCs and Apple was proud of that. The switch to Intel meant they wouldn't necessarily have a spec advantage anymore (except maybe when they implement a chip/architecture before the broader industry), but they certainly could at least keep up with the available technology.
We Apple users are used to paying a bit more for better hardware designs. The problem comes in when we're using years old technology and paying a bigger premium than ever.
re: BootCamp (or more likely Parallels, VMWare, etc.) - I'm not sure Apple even cares much about that anymore. Back when getting 'switchers' was important to them, that was a big deal. Back when Mac sales were important to them, that was a big deal. But, in the new iOS/Android world, do they really care if we can run Windows? Windows is a has-been of computing past, to some extent.... if we're looking at this new Apple-imagined world.
The problem with this is, the software, UI-development, and even hardware capabilities just aren't there yet. People are still going to have to live in the real-world for another decade or so until Apple's imagined world is viable. The question is more whether Apple recognizes this and cares, or whether that Big-Pie-Slice™ is the sole focus.
mike54 said: macOS is much better, it doesn't get in the way. I do miss some software like Pages, iMovie, Garageband, etc and other features of macOS. If you have a good mac machine with reasonable speed, does what you want and you're happy, no reason to go Windows 10. The only thing you're missing is hardware choices. If they made a decent mac mini or similar, I'll be back.
Windows 10 is improvement over there previous versions, but forced the updates is terrible, lots of telemetry stuff too. Took along time to stop as much as I could. Must use SSD with Windows 10, using HD don't use, it's mighty slow as Windows 10 has so many Microsoft processes going on even though I don't use those programs (not into Microsoft ecosystem). But I've had no problems with Windows 10, it has been reliable, it works.
Thanks for the feedback. That has been my impression as well (a bit from afar in the last several years, as I haven't needed to work in the Windows eco-system). I think I need to try and get-by for another hardware generation on Apple to see where things are going. But, the way Apple is acting, it's mighty tempting to move on, too.
macxpress said: The thing is...the Mac mini isn't a big seller. Even when it was being updated it wasn't a big seller.
It was once a bigger seller, but so what? Does every product have to be a 'biggest seller' to get updates? The Apple Watch isn't a big seller either in the grand scheme, nor the HomePod, yet Apple made them and sells them (and will likely update them, regularly). You know why? Because Apple believes them to be important enough to do so.
So, does Tim *really* think it is important, or is that just lip-service?
macxpress said: Macs are not just a bunch of off the shelf parts slapped together like some here continuously and falsely say. It takes time to design, engineer, and bring a product to market....usually around 2yrs, sometimes more depending on what they're doing. In the mean time, maybe they could put a better CPU in it, but its not just as easy as slap a different CPU in it and call it good.
Well, that's what they've often done to products, between major updates. It isn't just 'slap in in' easy, but it isn't so hard they should be running a half-decade behind either!
macxpress said: Its no different than those who call each other names because they own a RAM instead of a Ford truck. If they want to go buy it and try the other side of the world then by all means go do it. Maybe it will work out better for them anyways.
It isn't really the same at all. Those vehicles run on the same roads, and can get to the same destinations. I can't just easily decide to buy a Dell instead of a Mac, as it has huge eco-system, software, etc. implications.
I run a design and advertising studio and we love Mac Minis - we did, that is, until Apple starting neglecting them. Now we're frustrated. The Mini is (was?) a versatile computer because it isn't attached to a monitor (we love iMacs too, just sayin'). So it can be repurposed every few years - when it no longer cuts it as a design station (with the quad-core i7s and a SSD), it can become an office computer, a file server, a conference room computer / display station, etc. It makes them easy to buy 'cuz you know they'll continue to be useful. Not having a monitor attached, and configuring it with an SSD which is essential, gives it that flexibility. But no one at Apple will commit to either killing it or reviving it, so we're frustrated.
I rely on my Mac 2012 mini as my home networked media computer and AirPlay music box, connected to my primary OLED TV via a Yamaha Aventage receiver. In addition, I have never had cable, but use the mini to record the occasional over-air broadcast via EyeTV.
With a Thunderbolt external raid drive for extra space, the system is great for this use!
That said, I am more than ready now for a update, and hope Apple will provide one soon! An iMac simply won't work for me for this setup, and a MacPro is overkill in performance and price.
Comments
Apple, for most of their existence, used a business model of selling self-contained hardware / software ecosystems. The software is written to work with a specific hardware set which is why the ecosystem is generally very reliable. In time, the self-contained ecosystem model extended to the whole house when Apple devices were connected with each other via an Apple AirPort access point. Just plug them in and use them ... they 'just work'.
Then affordable high speed Internet access at home became the norm and with that, the emergence of multi-vendor Cloud IT services replacing functionality that traditionally existed in the Apple self-contained ecosystem at home. The proliferation of multi-vendor Cloud services has meant that ever-increasing parts of the IT home function are now external to the self-contained ecosystem architecture.
Eventually, we may all have a 'NUC' that connects to the Cloud with all home IT functions existing as services within the Cloud. Maybe Apple, looking forward a few years ago, just came to the conclusion that self-contained ecosystems in the home have an entirely different paradigm from ~2015 forward. Apple may be letting some of their product wither on the vine as the fully self-contained ecosystem just isn't a reality in 2018.
I work in technical area of IT but when I get home, I don't want more of the same. That is why I chose to adopt Apple's ecosystem at home years ago ... just plugged it in, it talked to everything else with an Apple logo on it and 'just worked' as the years went by. Now I am looking at meshed wireless topology at home but with Apple no longer making wireless routers I have to look at other vendors. Had a Mac Mini originally as a home media server but movies and music are just streamed from the Cloud by whoever these days - the Mac Mini was boxed years ago. It is obvious, to me at least, that the Apple self-contained ecosystem at home has more years behind it than in front of it.
If the Intel NUC ran a legal copy of macOS, how many readers out there would still buy a Mac Mini? Would Apple even bother or just obsolete the Mac Mini and put the Intel NUC on the Apple Store HomeKit page? Look at the Apple Store HomeKit page ... we have D-Link, NETGEAR, Nanoleaf, Elgato, Phillips & Schlage but no Apple.
Finally, I generally agree with JCS2305 that Apple has morphed into a utility / consumer company and his view is 'OK ... no problem, then just be that'.
RAM is soldered for a variety of reasons. It's ridiculous to be dumbfounded that RAM on an iPhone has soldered RAM on its motherboard. Are there lots of Android phones with socketed RAM you'd like to point out?
If 4GiB of RAM wasn't enough for you then you should've gotten more RAM, or if the soldering of RAM on a motherboard was some egegious issue then you shouldn't have gotten a Mac mini…. or a MB, or a MBP, or an iPhone, or an iPad, or an Apple Watch, or an iPod, or AirPods, or an AirPort, or countless other products by Apple and 3rd parties.
Good luck with your iMac. You better get a non-Pro 27" iMac if you want easy access to RAM because otherwise it's as good as soldered for someone like you.
PS: Bullshit on your "weekly cache purging" claim.
You are only doing the community of Mac users a massive disservice both by pointing them to (often inferior) alternatives to Apple, but you are also doing Apple a disservice by encouraging their current or potential customers to go elsewhere.
I currently use a maxed out RAM and SSD modded 2012 Mac mini it was beyond absolutely horrible to work on internally for upgrading anything and I read I am lucky, later models are even worse. It's running Boot Camp for the Opensim server using 90% of its capacity for Windows i.e macOS is at the minimum. An NUC makes far more sense.
Frankly I like Windows 10 Professional a lot ... this after hating Windows since it came out. I do wish Home allowed RDT ... and I know there are hacks but they break every time there is an major update ... and I run my server headless so I have fork out the extra $ to use Pro. I use VMWare and W10 on my Mac Pro on one of its three screens screen with RDT to control the Windows server. VMWare fires up the Win10 VM in seconds (all my VMs are on a 16 TB RAID 0) and the RDT launches in seconds too, I am very happy with this configuration. RDT over ethernet is so fast I can run high end games with good frame rates in the VM/RDT using the graphics of the Mac mini, I'd be interested to see the better GPU in the NUC in this set up (not sure if 4K is supported this way). I have to have a VM of 10.12 too as our Fujitsu Scansnap has no drivers for 10.13 and never will have apparently, it works perfectly in the VM.
Meanwhile I also want a new laptop just for carrying around as my aged 2010 MBP 15: weighs a ton (although still working perfectly with an SSD , its optical removed for weight loss and High Sierra) and I think will be going MBA even with no 2018 Retina version sadly, but good enough for web reading .. but I am still wavering, I really wanted Retina. I am typing this on the wife's MBA just to see what it is like to use and I am not impressed with the screen
Of course as mentioned I wait for the next Mac Pro which I may or not need, my current 6 core, now with all upgradeable components maxed out, still rocks. Who am I kidding ... of course there will be reasons to get a new one ... Apple's VR maybe? modern I/O, Hardware accelerated H256 ... it never ends does it?
One that doesn't make computers anymore?
If there isn't a new mini in June, I'm going to be building a bunch of Hackintoshes for a client. They don't have to be as small as the mini, but he does not want computers with built in screens, so the iMac is a deal killer for him. I'll be putting together smallish quad i7 boxes with 32GB RAM and 500GB SSDs, and I expect they'll be a bit over $1k each.
He's got 2009 minis now. The RAM is maxed at 8GB, and they've got SSDs now, but they're pretty much worn out, they're stuck at 10.11, and he wants to replace them with minis, has wanted to replace them for a few years now. But the 2014s are s**t, and he's uncomfortable buying used 2012s.
So, if there's no acceptable new mini announced next month, Apple is losing this sale, Hackintosh here we come. And I'm confident he's not the only one who will be going that way.
The thing is...the Mac mini isn't a big seller. Even when it was being updated it wasn't a big seller. We're also an Apple specific forum so while it sounds like EVERYONE wants a new Mac mini, thats not always the case. Just like EVERYONE wants a new Mac Pro and everyone has their own idea of what a Mac Pro should have in it, or even a Mac mini for that matter.
Apple knows WAY more than anyone of us here. For all we know Apple could be working on a brand new Mac mini, or they could just be riding the small wave its on until it decides to kill it. Tim however did say we love the Mac mini and will have more news on it soon (paraphrasing there). This leads me to believe Apple is doing something with the Mac mini. Macs are not just a bunch of off the shelf parts slapped together like some here continuously and falsely say. It takes time to design, engineer, and bring a product to market....usually around 2yrs, sometimes more depending on what they're doing. In the mean time, maybe they could put a better CPU in it, but its not just as easy as slap a different CPU in it and call it good. Again, we have to remember this is a very low margin product for Apple with poor sales (again even when they were updated). The Mac mini existed in the first place as a "cheap" Mac to get switchers to come to the Mac. We're lucky its lasted as long as it did and Apple continues to invest in such a product.
I'm also not going to play complete fanboy here and say everyone needs to own a Mac. They aren't for everyone and if they can find something else thats better then go buy it. I'm in no position to tell someone they're an idiot for buying a different brand. Its no different than those who call each other names because they own a RAM instead of a Ford truck. If they want to go buy it and try the other side of the world then by all means go do it. Maybe it will work out better for them anyways.
I'm a person who works in IT who supports macOS, iOS, ChromeOS, Android, and Windows all in one organization. Believe me...I know what works and what doesn't, but I always let people get what they want. So maybe I encourage those to go elsewhere. Some do and some don't. Some do and wish they hadn't. Apple can't be everything to everyone and people like you need to realize that.
I really wish the industry put more emphasis on quiet cooling. It seems that often, a bit more work on case design, or even spending a few more dollars on a better fan would make a huge difference. I used to have a pretty nice amp (studio quality), that I ended up selling because it was just to dang noisy, mostly due to one of those tiny, cheap fans.
Yeah, a lot of people used it for media centers, but that wasn't the point. You're right it was initially about 'switchers' as far as I can recall (something Apple probably doesn't care about at this point). But, it became super-popular for all kinds of uses, even in the server room. At one point, we had like 20-30 of them all doing various app-server and test-server purposes where I worked at the time (in a server rack).
I see the Mini either going to A-series chips as a re-born 'test' of that concept for the low-end of the Mac market, or Mac/iOS transition kind of device. Or, they could properly update it to be a headless low-to-mid Mac, which is what many of us here are hoping for, I think.
100 years? I suppose that's possible, but things are going to drastically change in 100 years. I doubt the country Apple exists in will be around in a 100 years. I also doubt the Mac and iOS devices will be around in 100 years. Whether Apple still exists, doing whatever it is people do in 100 years, will depend on whether they choose to stick to your origins of product/UX priority, or whether they head down the fashion/popularity/profits path they've been flirting with.
Well, they never tried to compete solely based on cost, but there was a time when Macs were faster than PCs and Apple was proud of that. The switch to Intel meant they wouldn't necessarily have a spec advantage anymore (except maybe when they implement a chip/architecture before the broader industry), but they certainly could at least keep up with the available technology.
We Apple users are used to paying a bit more for better hardware designs. The problem comes in when we're using years old technology and paying a bigger premium than ever.
re: BootCamp (or more likely Parallels, VMWare, etc.) - I'm not sure Apple even cares much about that anymore. Back when getting 'switchers' was important to them, that was a big deal. Back when Mac sales were important to them, that was a big deal. But, in the new iOS/Android world, do they really care if we can run Windows? Windows is a has-been of computing past, to some extent.... if we're looking at this new Apple-imagined world.
The problem with this is, the software, UI-development, and even hardware capabilities just aren't there yet. People are still going to have to live in the real-world for another decade or so until Apple's imagined world is viable. The question is more whether Apple recognizes this and cares, or whether that Big-Pie-Slice™ is the sole focus.
Thanks for the feedback. That has been my impression as well (a bit from afar in the last several years, as I haven't needed to work in the Windows eco-system). I think I need to try and get-by for another hardware generation on Apple to see where things are going. But, the way Apple is acting, it's mighty tempting to move on, too.
So, does Tim *really* think it is important, or is that just lip-service?
Well, that's what they've often done to products, between major updates. It isn't just 'slap in in' easy, but it isn't so hard they should be running a half-decade behind either!
It isn't really the same at all. Those vehicles run on the same roads, and can get to the same destinations. I can't just easily decide to buy a Dell instead of a Mac, as it has huge eco-system, software, etc. implications.
An iMac simply won't work for me for this setup, and a MacPro is overkill in performance and price.