I'm not convinced. The notch with FaceID tech inside is so big that it makes 'horns' on X less convenient; on a smaller screen of an SE they'd be useless. Newer FaceID tech could be smaller, but I doubt it would make its way into entry level SE 2. Besides, if the face of SE 2 changes that much, there's no reason for Apple to keep 5S-like design of the sides and back, so overall design would be rounded, more X-like. So, either no SE 2 this year (bummer) or a minor update (I'm okay with that).
I`m not convinced either, apart from a mild update I don't really expect for it to change much. However, I would love a SE format iPhone to come out with top-notch, up-to-date components especially faster processor, much better camera etc much like the top model. The size is much more convenient to carry in the pocket and to hold. Love my SE iPhone.
I have a friend who’s moving across the country at the end of the month. I don’t care what the SE 2 is like, as long as it comes out before he has to leave. What are the chances of a May 18th reveal “And it’s shipping today!”?
With only basic rumours to go on, I'd say it's possible but chances are slim.
I'm not in the market for an SE refresh myself but just as I argued for a large screen phone when Apple didn't have one, I will also argue in favour of a smallish SE phone, acknowledging that some people (and a sizeable amount) simply prefer a smaller phone. This coming from an iPad Mini devout who is still wishing for a refresh of that model.
From a business perspective I also fully support the idea of breaking away from an annual release cycle and a new SE, shipping now or in June, would be a perfect fit so I hope it happens.
3. Apple never releases new products with old tech. (The original SE came out with their state-of-the-art CPU, folks who believe and SE 2 will not have an A11 are nuts.)
I am just going to argue on only one point. I belong to the camp who believe SE 2 will not have A11. I strongly believe SE 2 will have only A10. As to the assertion that Apple never releases new products with old tech - Which SoCs were used in iPad Mini 3/Mini 4? or iPad 2017 or 2018? They have not done it in iPhones YET, does not mean that they will never do.
I just took a look; Mini 3, 4 both shipped with best-available tech; 2017 and 2018 iPads did not. However, they are on an annual refresh schedule, and I maintain that it’s unlikely that any device with a long shelf life will not start that life on old tech.
I suspect a refreshed iPod Touch with A11 too, incidentally. A *lot* of iOS SKUs are going to be released next month.
3. Apple never releases new products with old tech. (The original SE came out with their state-of-the-art CPU, folks who believe and SE 2 will not have an A11 are nuts.)
I am just going to argue on only one point. I belong to the camp who believe SE 2 will not have A11. I strongly believe SE 2 will have only A10. As to the assertion that Apple never releases new products with old tech - Which SoCs were used in iPad Mini 3/Mini 4? or iPad 2017 or 2018? They have not done it in iPhones YET, does not mean that they will never do.
I just took a look; Mini 3, 4 both shipped with best-available tech; 2017 and 2018 iPads did not. However, they are on an annual refresh schedule, and I maintain that it’s unlikely that any device with a long shelf life will not start that life on old tech.
I suspect a refreshed iPod Touch with A11 too, incidentally. A *lot* of iOS SKUs are going to be released next month.
Mini 3 and 4 launched with best-available tech??? Come on. Please check the years in which they were launched, along with which other products they were launched. Mini 3 was launched along with iPad Air 2. iPad Air 2 got A8X, while Mini 3 got A7. Mini 4 (A8) launched along with iPad Pro 9.7 inch, with A9X. It is my biggest criticism of Apple w.r.t. iPad Mini lineup. Apple deliberately underpowered them, which lead to less sales, which is leading to discontinuing of them, ALL by design. So don't hold high hopes of SE2 having A11. It will most likely launch with A10. Sales will reduce in the next 2 years. It will be discontinued by 2020, most likely.
3. Apple never releases new products with old tech. (The original SE came out with their state-of-the-art CPU, folks who believe and SE 2 will not have an A11 are nuts.)
I am just going to argue on only one point. I belong to the camp who believe SE 2 will not have A11. I strongly believe SE 2 will have only A10. As to the assertion that Apple never releases new products with old tech - Which SoCs were used in iPad Mini 3/Mini 4? or iPad 2017 or 2018? They have not done it in iPhones YET, does not mean that they will never do.
I just took a look; Mini 3, 4 both shipped with best-available tech; 2017 and 2018 iPads did not. However, they are on an annual refresh schedule, and I maintain that it’s unlikely that any device with a long shelf life will not start that life on old tech.
I suspect a refreshed iPod Touch with A11 too, incidentally. A *lot* of iOS SKUs are going to be released next month.
Mini 3 and 4 launched with best-available tech??? Come on. Please check the years in which they were launched, along with which other products they were launched. Mini 3 was launched along with iPad Air 2. iPad Air 2 got A8X, while Mini 3 got A7. Mini 4 (A8) launched along with iPad Pro 9.7 inch, with A9X. It is my biggest criticism of Apple w.r.t. iPad Mini lineup. Apple deliberately underpowered them, which lead to less sales, which is leading to discontinuing of them, ALL by design. So don't hold high hopes of SE2 having A11. It will most likely launch with A10. Sales will reduce in the next 2 years. It will be discontinued by 2020, most likely.
The $329 iPad kills the Mini.
That's just a fact.
The Mini market was always about hitting a lower price point than the iPad. Very little preference exists for a small form factor, and there are enough iPhones being repurposed to child's use, that even that "pre-iPhone" market has dried up. As for performance, most users were happy with the A9, and the A10 is certainly performant enough for most people.
i’d be happy if they kept the exact same form factor headphone jack and all and just bumped the specs every year. hell they could even go back to the small iPhone 3 size which is still the best size for my use case. unfortunately severeal hundred million millenials disagree with me. Still find it bizarre that the kids in my circle of friends bitch about small screens while watching youtube vids on their iphones next to a 70” flat screen. .... whatever.
bring the next SE its the only thing keeping me with apple. I gave up on the shit mac linup I hope I dont have to ditch the phones too.
3. Apple never releases new products with old tech. (The original SE came out with their state-of-the-art CPU, folks who believe and SE 2 will not have an A11 are nuts.)
I am just going to argue on only one point. I belong to the camp who believe SE 2 will not have A11. I strongly believe SE 2 will have only A10. As to the assertion that Apple never releases new products with old tech - Which SoCs were used in iPad Mini 3/Mini 4? or iPad 2017 or 2018? They have not done it in iPhones YET, does not mean that they will never do.
I just took a look; Mini 3, 4 both shipped with best-available tech; 2017 and 2018 iPads did not. However, they are on an annual refresh schedule, and I maintain that it’s unlikely that any device with a long shelf life will not start that life on old tech.
I suspect a refreshed iPod Touch with A11 too, incidentally. A *lot* of iOS SKUs are going to be released next month.
Mini 3 and 4 launched with best-available tech??? Come on. Please check the years in which they were launched, along with which other products they were launched. Mini 3 was launched along with iPad Air 2. iPad Air 2 got A8X, while Mini 3 got A7. Mini 4 (A8) launched along with iPad Pro 9.7 inch, with A9X. It is my biggest criticism of Apple w.r.t. iPad Mini lineup. Apple deliberately underpowered them, which lead to less sales, which is leading to discontinuing of them, ALL by design. So don't hold high hopes of SE2 having A11. It will most likely launch with A10. Sales will reduce in the next 2 years. It will be discontinued by 2020, most likely.
The $329 iPad kills the Mini.
That's just a fact.
The Mini market was always about hitting a lower price point than the iPad. Very little preference exists for a small form factor, and there are enough iPhones being repurposed to child's use, that even that "pre-iPhone" market has dried up. As for performance, most users were happy with the A9, and the A10 is certainly performant enough for most people.
Agreed, performance is not an issue with $329 iPad (either with A9 or A10). Size and comfort are, compared to Mini for those who are using it. Having said that, my kids don't have any problem using large sized iPad ever. $329 iPad came out in 2017. I am talking about Minis launched in 2014 and 2015. As I said earlier (not just in this thread, a previous one as well), Apple killed the iPad Mini lineup by design. SE lineup will most likely face the same fate couple of years down the line.
3. Apple never releases new products with old tech. (The original SE came out with their state-of-the-art CPU, folks who believe and SE 2 will not have an A11 are nuts.)
I am just going to argue on only one point. I belong to the camp who believe SE 2 will not have A11. I strongly believe SE 2 will have only A10. As to the assertion that Apple never releases new products with old tech - Which SoCs were used in iPad Mini 3/Mini 4? or iPad 2017 or 2018? They have not done it in iPhones YET, does not mean that they will never do.
I just took a look; Mini 3, 4 both shipped with best-available tech; 2017 and 2018 iPads did not. However, they are on an annual refresh schedule, and I maintain that it’s unlikely that any device with a long shelf life will not start that life on old tech.
I suspect a refreshed iPod Touch with A11 too, incidentally. A *lot* of iOS SKUs are going to be released next month.
Mini 3 and 4 launched with best-available tech??? Come on. Please check the years in which they were launched, along with which other products they were launched. Mini 3 was launched along with iPad Air 2. iPad Air 2 got A8X, while Mini 3 got A7. Mini 4 (A8) launched along with iPad Pro 9.7 inch, with A9X. It is my biggest criticism of Apple w.r.t. iPad Mini lineup. Apple deliberately underpowered them, which lead to less sales, which is leading to discontinuing of them, ALL by design. So don't hold high hopes of SE2 having A11. It will most likely launch with A10. Sales will reduce in the next 2 years. It will be discontinued by 2020, most likely.
The $329 iPad kills the Mini.
That's just a fact.
The Mini market was always about hitting a lower price point than the iPad. Very little preference exists for a small form factor, and there are enough iPhones being repurposed to child's use, that even that "pre-iPhone" market has dried up. As for performance, most users were happy with the A9, and the A10 is certainly performant enough for most people.
Agreed, performance is not an issue with $329 iPad (either with A9 or A10). Size and comfort are, compared to Mini for those who are using it. Having said that, my kids don't have any problem using large sized iPad ever. $329 iPad came out in 2017. I am talking about Minis launched in 2014 and 2015. As I said earlier (not just in this thread, a previous one as well), Apple killed the iPad Mini lineup by design. SE lineup will most likely face the same fate couple of years down the line.
Likely true, but Apple has that 5 year roadmap, so maybe they knew in 2014 when the mini would be killed? The SE is much less of an issue. They just keep the production lines open, the iPhone 5 production lines as it happens, with constant, but incrementally small cost reductions, and a revision when it makes sense.
Truth is, X is the future architecture, and that means FaceID, so at some point, Apple's entry level will have FaceID. Maybe that is in fact the death of the SE, or maybe, that device will still carry over the SE form factor, but with a notch. Apple may continue the SE but add a full screen with notch in the near term, without FaceID so that developers only have one target screen in various size and density. Customers and developers would be good with that, but would Apple kill the headphone jack at the same time?
I just can’t see that happening in this version, that would significantly increase the price of the device, and with the rumoured three iPhone X style phones coming later this year, that would make it four phones with no Home Button, which we’ll eventually get, just not anytime soon.
I don't think there will be an SEII till next year but even it one comes out this year, it will not have face ID, as that defeats the whole purpose of the SE. The only difference when it does come out is faster processor and TouchID 2
The purpose of the SE is an iPhone small enough to be comfortable for one-handed use.
Mini 3 and 4 launched with best-available tech??? Come on. Please check the years in which they were launched, along with which other products they were launched.
bestkeptsecret said: There definitely is a section of people who love the 4" form factor, but given the way Apple is releasing iPhones I suspect that the section isn't that much for Apple to include it in the premium launch phase (Sep) but it isn't so negligible that Apple abandons the form factor completely.
Or, is it possible that they finally actually did some research and found out it is pretty sizable? It is also possible that it has changed... i.e.: initially screen-size became to associated with high-end and drove people there in a kind of tail-wagging-the-dog way, and now people are moving back down the size spectrum a bit.
muthuk_vanalingam said: As to the assertion that Apple never releases new products with old tech - Which SoCs were used in iPad Mini 3/Mini 4? or iPad 2017 or 2018? They have not done it in iPhones YET, does not mean that they will never do.
Did they introduce the iPad Minis with a less than current chip, or have the updates just languished that much? I can't remember anymore. I think the argument is also that they don't do it to products that intentionally have a long product cycle (i.e.: 2 years +). That said, I'm not sure where the rule is that the SE has to be on a 2 year + cycle, either.
Kopfschmerzen said: Besides, if the face of SE 2 changes that much, there's no reason for Apple to keep 5S-like design of the sides and back, so overall design would be rounded, more X-like. So, either no SE 2 this year (bummer) or a minor update (I'm okay with that).
Unless they've discovered that people actually like the design of the SE (and don't like that thinner-rounded design of the 7, 8, X, etc.).
muthuk_vanalingam said: ... Mini 3 was launched along with iPad Air 2. iPad Air 2 got A8X, while Mini 3 got A7. Mini 4 (A8) launched along with iPad Pro 9.7 inch, with A9X. It is my biggest criticism of Apple w.r.t. iPad Mini lineup. Apple deliberately underpowered them, which lead to less sales, which is leading to discontinuing of them, ALL by design. ...
Sorry, responded too soon (before reading this). Unfortunately, that might be a good point.
The Mini market was always about hitting a lower price point than the iPad. Very little preference exists for a small form factor, and there are enough iPhones being repurposed to child's use, that even that "pre-iPhone" market has dried up. As for performance, most users were happy with the A9, and the A10 is certainly performant enough for most people.
Where in the world are you getting this idea from? The Mini was all about form-factor. Members of my family have purchased 2 iPad Minis, knowing full well that they weren't getting the latest and greatest technology for their money. If it goes away, my wife said it will be her last iPad.
Kopfschmerzen said: Besides, if the face of SE 2 changes that much, there's no reason for Apple to keep 5S-like design of the sides and back, so overall design would be rounded, more X-like. So, either no SE 2 this year (bummer) or a minor update (I'm okay with that).
Unless they've discovered that people actually like the design of the SE (and don't like that thinner-rounded design of the 7, 8, X, etc.).
muthuk_vanalingam said: ... Mini 3 was launched along with iPad Air 2. iPad Air 2 got A8X, while Mini 3 got A7. Mini 4 (A8) launched along with iPad Pro 9.7 inch, with A9X. It is my biggest criticism of Apple w.r.t. iPad Mini lineup. Apple deliberately underpowered them, which lead to less sales, which is leading to discontinuing of them, ALL by design. ...
Sorry, responded too soon (before reading this). Unfortunately, that might be a good point.
The Mini market was always about hitting a lower price point than the iPad. Very little preference exists for a small form factor, and there are enough iPhones being repurposed to child's use, that even that "pre-iPhone" market has dried up. As for performance, most users were happy with the A9, and the A10 is certainly performant enough for most people.
Where in the world are you getting this idea from? The Mini was all about form-factor. Members of my family have purchased 2 iPad Minis, knowing full well that they weren't getting the latest and greatest technology for their money. If it goes away, my wife said it will be her last iPad.
No, it wasn't at all about form factor. At the time of its initial release, it was about price.
Plenty of anecdotal evidence to that effect on the internet.
There are, of course, some who love the form factor, but for the most part, it was purchased for it's price. Now that the iPad is at $329. It may be that Apple will continue the Mini at a lower price point, maybe $279 or even $249, but at that it would be only a $50 to $75 discount over the iPad. It's not difficult to expect a lot of people to choose the iPad.
tmay said: No, it wasn't at all about form factor. At the time of its initial release, it was about price.
Plenty of anecdotal evidence to that effect on the internet.
There are, of course, some who love the form factor, but for the most part, it was purchased for it's price. Now that the iPad is at $329. It may be that Apple will continue the Mini at a lower price point, maybe $279 or even $249, but at that it would be only a $50 to $75 discount over the iPad. It's not difficult to expect a lot of people to choose the iPad.
That isn't how I remember it at all. The debate at the time was that Android makers were making ~7" tablets. Apple was arguing that the smaller form-factor wasn't optimal for UI (which I still believe is largely true... typing on one is a bear, and UI targets get quite small). But, people kept demanding the smaller size and Apple finally gave in. I don't remember a big price difference until rather recently.
What I can tell you is that none of the people I know who have purchased iPad Minis did so based on price, including, as I said, two family members. When I offered my son the choice between the iPad Mini and iPad (which was more powerful), he picked the Mini for it's size. My wife uses her iPad very much like a Kindle, so wants the smaller size also as it fits in her purse and she does a lot of reading on it. Neither would want the regular size iPad, even if it were considerably cheaper and/or more powerful.
Everyone I've run across with a Mini, when I mention that the rumor is that Apple isn't going to continue making it, says that is a really, really stupid decision, if so. And it isn't due to the price.
tmay said: No, it wasn't at all about form factor. At the time of its initial release, it was about price.
Plenty of anecdotal evidence to that effect on the internet.
There are, of course, some who love the form factor, but for the most part, it was purchased for it's price. Now that the iPad is at $329. It may be that Apple will continue the Mini at a lower price point, maybe $279 or even $249, but at that it would be only a $50 to $75 discount over the iPad. It's not difficult to expect a lot of people to choose the iPad.
That isn't how I remember it at all. The debate at the time was that Android makers were making ~7" tablets. Apple was arguing that the smaller form-factor wasn't optimal for UI (which I still believe is largely true... typing on one is a bear, and UI targets get quite small). But, people kept demanding the smaller size and Apple finally gave in. I don't remember a big price difference until rather recently.
What I can tell you is that none of the people I know who have purchased iPad Minis did so based on price, including, as I said, two family members. When I offered my son the choice between the iPad Mini and iPad (which was more powerful), he picked the Mini for it's size. My wife uses her iPad very much like a Kindle, so wants the smaller size also as it fits in her purse and she does a lot of reading on it. Neither would want the regular size iPad, even if it were considerably cheaper and/or more powerful.
Everyone I've run across with a Mini, when I mention that the rumor is that Apple isn't going to continue making it, says that is a really, really stupid decision, if so. And it isn't due to the price.
Okay, after reading about it some more, I'm going to retract most of what I stated. Unfortunately, it doesn't really help your case today.
The smaller form factors relied on cheaper screens, and there were a number of Android OS versions that were inexpensive; these became popular, at least for awhile. At that time, iPads were also quite heavy, and were difficult to hold for reading. The iPad mini that Phil Schiller pleaded for, ended up being lighter, smaller, and cheaper than the iPad. Many people argued at the time, that the iPad Mini starting at $329, was still too expensive.
Today though, iPad's are considerably lighter, less expensive, and as the bezel begins to disappear, small enough to replace the Mini for many if not most Mini users. At the same time, rumors of a 6.5 inch iPhone encroach on the Mini's form factor from below as well. Throw in lack of updates (remember that 5 year roadmap!) likely slowed sales and today there doesn't appear to be a future for the iPad Mini.
tmay said: ... Today though, iPad's are considerably lighter, less expensive, and as the bezel begins to disappear, small enough to replace the Mini for many if not most Mini users. At the same time, rumors of a 6.5 inch iPhone encroach on the Mini's form factor from below as well. Throw in lack of updates (remember that 5 year roadmap!) likely slowed sales and today there doesn't appear to be a future for the iPad Mini.
Sorry about that.
I can see the argument about the bezel going away eventually makes a smaller device, but the bezel on the mini isn't that big currently. I suppose they could get a bigger number for the spec-sheet by doing what they did with the iPhone X, but in reality, it is more just a spec elevation than usable space.
I don't agree on the phone, as that is still quite a bit smaller and it's a phone. Most users aren't going to buy a phone to replace their iPad. You might well be correct about it being gone eventually, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.
Being an SE user, I welcome with open arms a next-generation SE. I do not see my preference for compact phones changing in the near or far future. When/If Apple does away with the SE size, I will without a doubt wander off to some other source. There are distinct separate entities out there. The big phone user, and the rest of us. Apple would be remiss to discount either market. Apple, if you make it I will buy it.
Comments
I'm not in the market for an SE refresh myself but just as I argued for a large screen phone when Apple didn't have one, I will also argue in favour of a smallish SE phone, acknowledging that some people (and a sizeable amount) simply prefer a smaller phone. This coming from an iPad Mini devout who is still wishing for a refresh of that model.
From a business perspective I also fully support the idea of breaking away from an annual release cycle and a new SE, shipping now or in June, would be a perfect fit so I hope it happens.
I suspect a refreshed iPod Touch with A11 too, incidentally. A *lot* of iOS SKUs are going to be released next month.
That's just a fact.
The Mini market was always about hitting a lower price point than the iPad. Very little preference exists for a small form factor, and there are enough iPhones being repurposed to child's use, that even that "pre-iPhone" market has dried up. As for performance, most users were happy with the A9, and the A10 is certainly performant enough for most people.
bring the next SE its the only thing keeping me with apple. I gave up on the shit mac linup I hope I dont have to ditch the phones too.
Truth is, X is the future architecture, and that means FaceID, so at some point, Apple's entry level will have FaceID. Maybe that is in fact the death of the SE, or maybe, that device will still carry over the SE form factor, but with a notch. Apple may continue the SE but add a full screen with notch in the near term, without FaceID so that developers only have one target screen in various size and density. Customers and developers would be good with that, but would Apple kill the headphone jack at the same time?
Did they introduce the iPad Minis with a less than current chip, or have the updates just languished that much? I can't remember anymore. I think the argument is also that they don't do it to products that intentionally have a long product cycle (i.e.: 2 years +). That said, I'm not sure where the rule is that the SE has to be on a 2 year + cycle, either.
Sorry, responded too soon (before reading this). Unfortunately, that might be a good point.
Where in the world are you getting this idea from? The Mini was all about form-factor. Members of my family have purchased 2 iPad Minis, knowing full well that they weren't getting the latest and greatest technology for their money. If it goes away, my wife said it will be her last iPad.
Plenty of anecdotal evidence to that effect on the internet.
There are, of course, some who love the form factor, but for the most part, it was purchased for it's price. Now that the iPad is at $329. It may be that Apple will continue the Mini at a lower price point, maybe $279 or even $249, but at that it would be only a $50 to $75 discount over the iPad. It's not difficult to expect a lot of people to choose the iPad.
What I can tell you is that none of the people I know who have purchased iPad Minis did so based on price, including, as I said, two family members. When I offered my son the choice between the iPad Mini and iPad (which was more powerful), he picked the Mini for it's size. My wife uses her iPad very much like a Kindle, so wants the smaller size also as it fits in her purse and she does a lot of reading on it. Neither would want the regular size iPad, even if it were considerably cheaper and/or more powerful.
Everyone I've run across with a Mini, when I mention that the rumor is that Apple isn't going to continue making it, says that is a really, really stupid decision, if so. And it isn't due to the price.
The smaller form factors relied on cheaper screens, and there were a number of Android OS versions that were inexpensive; these became popular, at least for awhile. At that time, iPads were also quite heavy, and were difficult to hold for reading. The iPad mini that Phil Schiller pleaded for, ended up being lighter, smaller, and cheaper than the iPad. Many people argued at the time, that the iPad Mini starting at $329, was still too expensive.
Today though, iPad's are considerably lighter, less expensive, and as the bezel begins to disappear, small enough to replace the Mini for many if not most Mini users. At the same time, rumors of a 6.5 inch iPhone encroach on the Mini's form factor from below as well. Throw in lack of updates (remember that 5 year roadmap!) likely slowed sales and today there doesn't appear to be a future for the iPad Mini.
Sorry about that.
I don't agree on the phone, as that is still quite a bit smaller and it's a phone. Most users aren't going to buy a phone to replace their iPad. You might well be correct about it being gone eventually, but that doesn't mean it is a good idea.