I found some (5 year old) tax figures that are relevant for this discussion:
"As for property taxes, Apple claims it contributed $9.2 million of annual tax revenue to Cupertino in the 2012-2013 financial year, accounting for about 18 percent of the city’s general fund.
In 2012, properties occupied by Apple in Cupertino generated approximately $25 million in local property tax revenue. “Campus 2” is expected to annually generate an additional $32 million of property tax revenue to local public agencies. Total recurring property tax revenues to fund local community services are expected to exceed $50 million each year.
Building the new campus will also create 9,200 construction jobs over the next three years and the new headquarters will generate a "one-time” revenue of approximately $38.1 million to the City of Cupertino in the form of construction taxes and fees."
Another piece of data missing is how many Cupertino residences work for Apple, when I lived in the valley back in the 80's and 90's a lot of people who worked for apple lived in Cupertino who pay taxes, the problem in Calf is all taxes go to the state and they decide who gets the money. Also, what about all the other thiving businesses which exist around Apple. Apple took the old HP facility which was rotting and made it into something, Now their is talk about converting Valco Mall into something which will generate more income for the town.
BTW, many here probably don't know where Mr Jobs final public appearance was: In front of the Cupertino City Council arguing for the new campus. Wonderful short video
Unbelievable idiocy on the Left coast, as usual. Punish the biggest job creators instead of working with them to give back to the community voluntarily (which many are happy to do).
Have you been to the Apple campuses? They are huge, take over a very large portion of the city and are still growing and taking over more space.
Additionally, there's a constant stream of double-decker buses flowing through and onto 280/85. Local businesses aren't doing so well because few employees leave campus and few people go to the area now who aren't going to the campus. The Eichler models homes and low end apartments have skyrocketed in price just in the past decade, forcing out anyone who is a renter.
It's all extraordinarily disruptive, but besides the fact that $275 per employee is trivial for companies like Apple, it's not like as if Cupertino has a problem with not enough jobs in the city. The issue is that there are too many employees working in places in the city isolated from everything else.
Translation: “Apple doesn’t deserve all the money it makes. Everyone deserves a piece of the Apple pie.”
Government is a voracious beast seeking to devour all it comes in contact with. For decades now the Federal government has been the number one employer in the country. It is entirely possible that at sometime in the future government will be the ONLY employer in the country. It’s like a star that has run out of fuel and is expanding to consume all the planets that orbit it.
Wow, far out man ... That's exactly what you "sound like". Time for you to put the bong down and go to a meeting.
What does a bong have to do with the OP original post? So the only people that have a different way of thinking or seeing a situation must be high and need a meeting ? Interesting 🧐
Dear AI: please be more consistent about enabling/ disabling comments on political pieces. Yes, I know you want to inform, and we the AI community can't be trusted to be logical and civilized.
I like this site, I learn a lot from it. I also learn just how awful some of the commentors are, and that is not a plus for anyone.
It's funny how stunned people act when the government makes even small demands of the corporate world during a time of record profits and endless rounds of stock buybacks.
Because its actually chilling the extent government reaches with its uneven hand... then again, its California, which will self-implode with the number of spastics running things...
Sure it will. Right after it slides into the ocean. But meanwhile, it’s leading the major economies of film and technology, while hardcore red-states like Louisiana are poverty stricken, have no industry, no credit rating, and are at the bottom of nearly every quality of life list. But, freedom!
BTW, many here probably don't know where Mr Jobs final public appearance was: In front of the Cupertino City Council arguing for the new campus. Wonderful short video
Folks, notice in the video the city council room, look at the money they spent to build that room. I can tell you towns around me have nothing like that, they have a big room which they set up a table with chairs and cheap folding plastic chair for the public to sit in. When the room is not use for council activities it being loaned out or rented out to the local community to use for meetings. There is no reason people who are take hand out form the public in the way of taxes should be spending it on nice digs for themselves when they are claiming they need money for infrastructure. Governments should not have the nicest building around, they do not make profits they only spend money as such it should not be spent on things which only benefit them ie a council room.
maestro64 said: the problem in Calf is all taxes go to the state and they decide who gets the money.
This is not quite correct. There are lots of different taxes in California. Sales and use tax is paid to the state but counties, cities and other districts can add additional sales taxes. Property taxes go to the counties.
How would it be fair to demand, from a tiny business that makes a small profit, the same amount of tax as is demanded from a huge 20-MILLION dollar business?
Same amount? Not. Same percentage? Extremely. That’s sort of the fucking POINT of the US style of government.
If you live in the USA you are "the government." Unlike some countries with kings and dictators, in the USA the people who are coming up with laws around taxation are either your democratically elected officials or appointees of democratically elected officials that you have empowered to work on such matters on your behalf.
That hasn’t been the case for quite a while.
Transparency, mutual respect, and compromise are only way that these issues can move forward
Thanks for the standard propaganda line. I’m sure it will work after the 77th year of believing it, right?
I received a wonderful public education here in Canada which my parents would never have been able to afford in the US because they were blue collar workers. Classrooms were sufficiently staffed with well-trained teachers, schools were stocked with all the books and technology we needed, and all because everyone contributed to it rather than believing in the self-fulfilling prophecy that government is wasteful and privatization is the only solution.
You’ve clearly never heard of Kansas City or know anything whatsoever about why the US system is (purposely) crippled in the way that it is.
Unbelievable idiocy on the Left coast, as usual. Punish the biggest job creators instead of working with them to give back to the community voluntarily (which many are happy to do).
Have you been to the Apple campuses? They are huge, take over a very large portion of the city and are still growing and taking over more space.
Additionally, there's a constant stream of double-decker buses flowing through and onto 280/85. Local businesses aren't doing so well because few employees leave campus and few people go to the area now who aren't going to the campus. The Eichler models homes and low end apartments have skyrocketed in price just in the past decade, forcing out anyone who is a renter.
It's all extraordinarily disruptive, but besides the fact that $275 per employee is trivial for companies like Apple, it's not like as if Cupertino has a problem with not enough jobs in the city. The issue is that there are too many employees working in places in the city isolated from everything else.
If this was an issue, then why did the City of Cupertino all agree to let Apple build Apple Park? Were they afraid to say no to Steve Jobs? The question about traffic and things like that was brought up when Steve presented plans for a new campus. Steve kinda gave a half-ass answer to the questions, but I guess they just trusted it was taken into account or maybe those specific plans were talked about in private meetings.
Apple is most likely by far the largest tax payer in the City of Cupertino, especially now that they have 2 campuses in the city. Honestly, it just sounds like Cupertino is taking advantage of this knowing that Apple is going to have to cave and pay it and just nickel and dime them. This is exactly why companies pack up and move. Again, they know Apple isn't going to do this since they just designed a custom $6 Billion building for themselves there. Basically, they got Apple by the balls here and are taking advantage of this.
Maybe the city should look into reducing its costs, or being more efficient with its spending instead of asking the largest tax payer in the city for more money when it already forks out millions and millions of dollars per year for the city? Like I always say, Apple has over $250 Billion in the bank and everyone thinks they deserve a piece of it.
Also, I assume yes there was some citizens of Cupertino that opposed Apple Park from being build, but I bet you the vast majority of them were totally fine with it. I don't remember hearing massive amounts of people from Cupertino opposing this being built.
$275 per employee per year is pretty small. For 20k employees, that's just $5.5 million.
That's enough money to pay for a year of school for a few hundred students.
Flawed logic. It is a complete disincentive for businesses to invest and create real jobs. Notice how they waited until after Apple's new HQ was built.
Ahh yes! My point exactly! They got Apple by the balls here. They know Apple isn't going to pack up and go like a lot of companies eventually would once they got fed up so they think they can get away with all of these specialized taxes so they can continue to just spend away. Apple will pay for it!
maestro64 said: the problem in Calf is all taxes go to the state and they decide who gets the money.
This is not quite correct. There are lots of different taxes in California. Sales and use tax is paid to the state but counties, cities and other districts can add additional sales taxes. Property taxes go to the counties.
Yep. The statewide sales/use tax rate is 7.25%. Of that, 1.25% goes to local transportation fund and city/county city fund. Luckily here, it's only an additional .50% city tax on top of the 7.25% rate. There are places here in southern California that have over a 10% sales tax rate. Glad I don't live there.
maestro64 said: the problem in Calf is all taxes go to the state and they decide who gets the money.
This is not quite correct. There are lots of different taxes in California. Sales and use tax is paid to the state but counties, cities and other districts can add additional sales taxes. Property taxes go to the counties.
all wage taxes go to the state, that is what i was talking about and then local have to petition the state to get some of that money back. I live in a state which both state and local have wage tax and property taxes are also broken down by county, local and school district, Local government see direct relationship to people incoming going up and they do not have to lobby the state to get some of that money back.
That example isn’t relevant to the topic, but sure, go ahead and believe whatever you are told by your non-US government you’re allowed to believe.
Propaganda and misdirection come from all sources, not just government But the original point was that purchasing in large quantities is almost always cheaper than purchasing in small quantities. Not relevant to the topic other than combatting the propaganda that having the government collect taxes to provide services is always wasteful/more expensive than having corporations provide them for a fee.
I received a wonderful public education here in Canada which my parents would never have been able to afford in the US because they were blue collar workers. Classrooms were sufficiently staffed with well-trained teachers, schools were stocked with all the books and technology we needed, and all because everyone contributed to it rather than believing in the self-fulfilling prophecy that government is wasteful and privatization is the only solution.
You’ve clearly never heard of Kansas City or know anything whatsoever about why the US system is (purposely) crippled in the way that it is.
Oh, I have no doubt that it's crippled because the people who are profiting from private education will never let things change. They'll lobby as hard as they can against public education and make sure they throw their support behind the appropriate politicians. They're acting exactly like a competitive company is supposed to: beat the competition (public education) any way you can.
Propaganda and misdirection come from all sources, not just government.
Yes, absolutely.
But the original point was that purchasing in large quantities is almost always cheaper than purchasing in small quantities. Not relevant to the topic other than combatting the propaganda that having the government collect taxes to provide services is always wasteful/more expensive than having corporations provide them for a fee.
Oh, I see. Not directly related to the argument about healthcare, just an example which used it. Thanks.
Oh, I have no doubt that it's crippled because the people who are profiting from private education will never let things change.
Ha, I’d forgotten about that in my consideration. You’re right there, too.
maestro64 said: all wage taxes go to the state, that is what i was talking about and then local have to petition the state to get some of that money back.
It's funny how stunned people act when the government makes even small demands of the corporate world during a time of record profits and endless rounds of stock buybacks.
The problem isnt corporate success but rather unfair discrimination based on that success. If they really want a per employee tax it should be applied to all businesses at the same rate. Samething should apply to personal income tax one flat rare for everybody. That includes poor people and the rich.
In any event this is a classic example of sleazy liberal government. Pull in business and then change the rules after they get settled in. Oh and by the way it is a certainty that those infrastructure projects are in fact pet projects for a tiny minority of the community.
The homelessness issue is complex but imposing tax head is not a solution. You cannot blame businesses for homeless people.
I hope that tax head will be declared unconstitutional. Seattle is now gathering a lot of petitions to repeal the head tax.
Don’t get me wrong, I think the per-employee tax is asinine in the extreme, even for Left-Coast Marxists, but how is this bad city tax policy a constitutional issue? Unequal treatment?
Wow, far out man ... That's exactly what you "sound like". Time for you to put the bong down and go to a meeting.
Not an argument. Where is he wrong? Do you know what communism is?
You do realize that there's a middle ground between Communism and no government, everyone pays for everything themselves right?
I'm so glad I didn't move down to the US for work when I graduated. The level of myopic self interest reaches new heights year after year. For example, the fact that people who shop at Costco to save money can't see that mass purchase of medicine (by the government) for distribution leads to a far cheaper/more efficient system than having dozens of small health insurance companies (with profit motives) buying it is sad. But... but... communism.
You correctly highlight the US problem. It's one extreme or the other, polarization has gone nuclear. As a Brit originally but here for 30 years I continuously find I am stuck in the middle seeing sense on both sides and some amazingly bad stuff on both sides. There is literally zero middle ground here with both sides always turning a blind eye to what they don't really like from their own side. Compromise is now a dirty word and it seems most would rather see chaos than ever agree to disagree. It is very depressing but one can only hold out hope .
The problem is compromise isnt something that leads to a middle ground. This is a perfect example of politics in the USA pull people in with one set of rules and then screw them over after they are established. It is sleazy government ruun amoke. Beyond that there are no infrastructure issues in this partt of California.
The councilmen should really explire the poorer sections of the USA. Places where the tax rolls barely keep government functioning. To put it plainly there is no justification for this tax based on need.
The homelessness issue is complex but imposing tax head is not a solution. You cannot blame businesses for homeless people.
I hope that tax head will be declared unconstitutional. Seattle is now gathering a lot of petitions to repeal the head tax.
Don’t get me wrong, I think the per-employee tax is asinine in the extreme, even for Left-Coast Marxists, but how is this bad city tax policy a constitutional issue? Unequal treatment?
Comments
Another piece of data missing is how many Cupertino residences work for Apple, when I lived in the valley back in the 80's and 90's a lot of people who worked for apple lived in Cupertino who pay taxes, the problem in Calf is all taxes go to the state and they decide who gets the money. Also, what about all the other thiving businesses which exist around Apple. Apple took the old HP facility which was rotting and made it into something, Now their is talk about converting Valco Mall into something which will generate more income for the town.
In front of the Cupertino City Council arguing for the new campus. Wonderful short video
http://video.wired.com/watch/steve-jobs-pitches-apple-park-at-cupertino-city-council
I like this site, I learn a lot from it. I also learn just how awful some of the commentors are, and that is not a plus for anyone.
Folks, notice in the video the city council room, look at the money they spent to build that room. I can tell you towns around me have nothing like that, they have a big room which they set up a table with chairs and cheap folding plastic chair for the public to sit in. When the room is not use for council activities it being loaned out or rented out to the local community to use for meetings. There is no reason people who are take hand out form the public in the way of taxes should be spending it on nice digs for themselves when they are claiming they need money for infrastructure. Governments should not have the nicest building around, they do not make profits they only spend money as such it should not be spent on things which only benefit them ie a council room.
Not an argument. Not relevant.
That example isn’t relevant to the topic, but sure, go ahead and believe whatever you are told by your non-US government you’re allowed to believe.
That hasn’t been the case for quite a while.
Thanks for the standard propaganda line. I’m sure it will work after the 77th year of believing it, right?
You’ve clearly never heard of Kansas City or know anything whatsoever about why the US system is (purposely) crippled in the way that it is.
Apple is most likely by far the largest tax payer in the City of Cupertino, especially now that they have 2 campuses in the city. Honestly, it just sounds like Cupertino is taking advantage of this knowing that Apple is going to have to cave and pay it and just nickel and dime them. This is exactly why companies pack up and move. Again, they know Apple isn't going to do this since they just designed a custom $6 Billion building for themselves there. Basically, they got Apple by the balls here and are taking advantage of this.
Maybe the city should look into reducing its costs, or being more efficient with its spending instead of asking the largest tax payer in the city for more money when it already forks out millions and millions of dollars per year for the city? Like I always say, Apple has over $250 Billion in the bank and everyone thinks they deserve a piece of it.
Also, I assume yes there was some citizens of Cupertino that opposed Apple Park from being build, but I bet you the vast majority of them were totally fine with it. I don't remember hearing massive amounts of people from Cupertino opposing this being built.
Ahh yes! My point exactly! They got Apple by the balls here. They know Apple isn't going to pack up and go like a lot of companies eventually would once they got fed up so they think they can get away with all of these specialized taxes so they can continue to just spend away. Apple will pay for it!
Oh, I have no doubt that it's crippled because the people who are profiting from private education will never let things change. They'll lobby as hard as they can against public education and make sure they throw their support behind the appropriate politicians. They're acting exactly like a competitive company is supposed to: beat the competition (public education) any way you can.
Oh, I see. Not directly related to the argument about healthcare, just an example which used it. Thanks.Ha, I’d forgotten about that in my consideration. You’re right there, too.
In any event this is a classic example of sleazy liberal government. Pull in business and then change the rules after they get settled in. Oh and by the way it is a certainty that those infrastructure projects are in fact pet projects for a tiny minority of the community.
The councilmen should really explire the poorer sections of the USA. Places where the tax rolls barely keep government functioning. To put it plainly there is no justification for this tax based on need.
You're far from the only one who considers it asinine.