Why Google IO 2018 squandered AI leadership to focus on copying Apple's innovations

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 72
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,566member
    tmay said:
    Meanwhile, in the real world, Google is setting the standard for autonomous cars, has the best assistant on the market, and keeps making advances in photos. It's still early days for all AI but to suggest they've squandered their lead is plain silly.
    I think that the point of the article is that it isn't innovation if you aren't making money at it, and almost without fail, Apple, with a small share of the smartphone market is grabbing most of the revenue and profits comparative to Android OEM'a and developers.

    Google itself is doing fine, excepting the scrutiny given it's near monopoly in search, and privacy issues, and it's persistent inability to generate much revenue off of consumer hardware. Google has noticeable leads in services and technologies that the OEM's and developers have, for the most part, been unable to leverage to enhance revenue and profit, and Google I/O doesn't appear to have accelerated that.
    If that is the point of the article then I disagree with it. Google makes its money in advertising - much of it on mobile - and uses the profits to fund innovative technologies that won't be profitable in the R&D stage. 
    Google is almost 20 years old. But in two decades it still makes almost all of its money from one thing — selling ads. When will these “innovative technologies” bear fruit? Inversely the Apple of today has completely different, new, innovative, and profitable products than from 20 years ago. 
    radarthekatmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 72
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,566member

    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Meanwhile, in the real world, Google is setting the standard for autonomous cars, has the best assistant on the market, and keeps making advances in photos. It's still early days for all AI but to suggest they've squandered their lead is plain silly.
    I think that the point of the article is that it isn't innovation if you aren't making money at it, and almost without fail, Apple, with a small share of the smartphone market is grabbing most of the revenue and profits comparative to Android OEM'a and developers.

    Google itself is doing fine, excepting the scrutiny given it's near monopoly in search, and privacy issues, and it's persistent inability to generate much revenue off of consumer hardware. Google has noticeable leads in services and technologies that the OEM's and developers have, for the most part, been unable to leverage to enhance revenue and profit, and Google I/O doesn't appear to have accelerated that.
    If that is the point of the article then I disagree with it. Google makes its money in advertising - much of it on mobile - and uses the profits to fund innovative technologies that won't be profitable in the R&D stage. 
    How are the OEM's doing? Which "innovative technologies" has Google released that have generated any income other than from search or advertising?
    Google technologies generate a lot of social surplus even if the benefit does not go always to Google.

    Kubernetes is the standard for container orchestration and was donated by Google to an open source foundation. It's the standard now for everyone including azure, aws, even Oracle cloud.

    Tensorflow is the most popular ml framework both in production and for teaching. Donated by Google.

    Hadoop and all its countless derivatives are built a set of papers from 2005 on MapReduce that essentially tool Google's system as a blueprint.

    Angular is one of the most popular web dev frameworks. By Google.

    Go is a fast growing system programming language. Also by Google.

    This is an eclectic list which is easy to continue. Google has been great about open sourcing high quality frameworks or published enough about their production systems so that others could copy it.

    Apple also did great things such as webkit. Microsoft has been fantastic recently as well.

    There is no reason to view this as a zero sum game. We live in great times where many companies produce great tech that is open sourced from the start. 

    You just moved the goalposts. We were discussing innovative technology that leads to profits, since profit is the air corporations breathe and how we measure them, but now you’re citing their charitable donations. Irrelevant to the topic at hand. 
    Muntzradarthekatmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 72
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,566member
    KITA said:
    sfolax said:
    I used to enjoy DED articles, but to be honest this constant bickering and "everyone else is wrong" is starting to get boring and monotonous.

    At least the other writers here bring some variety in their articles.
    I feel like I just stumble across The Onion. 

    If DED (and those who defend his editorials) were really confident about Apple’s place in the tech landscape he wouldn’t need to write these overly defensive and/or rah rah Apple’s the best (and everyone else is just copying them) articles all the time. 
    Sorry but that’s worthless bullshit. Apple is routinely pounded by nearly all news sources and portrayed as being a dying gasp away from utter failure. We’ve all seen these pieces, week after week. DED and PED are two of the few dissenting voices, and they’ve both made a niche in that space. It doesn’t mean they’re lacking confidence and really even saying such a thing only shows an incredibly naive and poor understanding of how publishing works. Don’t quit your day job. 

    Love how DED gets the usuals predictably butthurt. 

    Dracarys said:
    It's come to the point where if DED writes something you know the competition is doing something right. Everything is just twisting the truth into lies to show that the competition is failing and Apple is winning.
    You are seriously delusional. The Macalope has built a career around debunking all the nonsense DOOM narratives pushed about Apple. Their claims of Apple failure are legion. And yet, always wrong. Voices like the hoofed one an DED’s are a refreshing brief of fresh air and sanity. 

    https://www.macworld.com/author/The-Macalope
    Why are you calling other users "delusional" and "butthurt"?
    I said the usual (anti-DEDers) are getting butthurt, because they are.

    I said Dracarys was delusional based on his idiotic claim that DED “is just twisting the truth into lies”.

    ...which part are you having trouble with?
    edited May 2018 Muntzmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 72
    afkpuzafkpuz Posts: 1member
    sfolax said:
    I used to enjoy DED articles, but to be honest this constant bickering and "everyone else is wrong" is starting to get boring and monotonous.

    At least the other writers here bring some variety in their articles.
    I feel like I just stumble across The Onion. 

    If DED (and those who defend his editorials) were really confident about Apple’s place in the tech landscape he wouldn’t need to write these overly defensive and/or rah rah Apple’s the best (and everyone else is just copying them) articles all the time. 
    Apple hating is a lot like politics right now. There are plenty of people attacking Apple. Heck, I’ve even seen Apple insider articles that poopoo Apple for some of the reasons DED disputes in this article. 

    The proportions are heavily stacked against Apple when it comes to media, so I’m totally fine with DED beating the same drum over and over. that drum is: Apple is doing way better than people give them credit for
    jony0MuntzradarthekatStrangeDaysmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 72
    KITAKITA Posts: 368member
    KITA said:
    sfolax said:
    I used to enjoy DED articles, but to be honest this constant bickering and "everyone else is wrong" is starting to get boring and monotonous.

    At least the other writers here bring some variety in their articles.
    I feel like I just stumble across The Onion. 

    If DED (and those who defend his editorials) were really confident about Apple’s place in the tech landscape he wouldn’t need to write these overly defensive and/or rah rah Apple’s the best (and everyone else is just copying them) articles all the time. 
    Sorry but that’s worthless bullshit. Apple is routinely pounded by nearly all news sources and portrayed as being a dying gasp away from utter failure. We’ve all seen these pieces, week after week. DED and PED are two of the few dissenting voices, and they’ve both made a niche in that space. It doesn’t mean they’re lacking confidence and really even saying such a thing only shows an incredibly naive and poor understanding of how publishing works. Don’t quit your day job. 

    Love how DED gets the usuals predictably butthurt. 

    Dracarys said:
    It's come to the point where if DED writes something you know the competition is doing something right. Everything is just twisting the truth into lies to show that the competition is failing and Apple is winning.
    You are seriously delusional. The Macalope has built a career around debunking all the nonsense DOOM narratives pushed about Apple. Their claims of Apple failure are legion. And yet, always wrong. Voices like the hoofed one an DED’s are a refreshing brief of fresh air and sanity. 

    https://www.macworld.com/author/The-Macalope
    Why are you calling other users "delusional" and "butthurt"?
    I said the usual (anti-DEDers) are getting butthurt, because they are.

    I said Dracarys was delusional based on his idiotic claim that DED “is just twisting the truth into lies”.

    ...which part are you having trouble with?
    The part where you called other users "butthurt" and "delusional".
    gatorguy
  • Reply 26 of 72
    MuntzMuntz Posts: 26member
    sfolax said:
    I used to enjoy DED articles, but to be honest this constant bickering and "everyone else is wrong" is starting to get boring and monotonous.

    At least the other writers here bring some variety in their articles.
    Do the Android shills ever take a day off?
    radarthekatStrangeDaysmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 27 of 72
    MuntzMuntz Posts: 26member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Meanwhile, in the real world, Google is setting the standard for autonomous cars, has the best assistant on the market, and keeps making advances in photos. It's still early days for all AI but to suggest they've squandered their lead is plain silly.
    I think that the point of the article is that it isn't innovation if you aren't making money at it, and almost without fail, Apple, with a small share of the smartphone market is grabbing most of the revenue and profits comparative to Android OEM'a and developers.

    Google itself is doing fine, excepting the scrutiny given it's near monopoly in search, and privacy issues, and it's persistent inability to generate much revenue off of consumer hardware. Google has noticeable leads in services and technologies that the OEM's and developers have, for the most part, been unable to leverage to enhance revenue and profit, and Google I/O doesn't appear to have accelerated that.
    If that is the point of the article then I disagree with it. Google makes its money in advertising - much of it on mobile - and uses the profits to fund innovative technologies that won't be profitable in the R&D stage. 
    How are the OEM's doing? Which "innovative technologies" has Google released that have generated any income other than from search or advertising?
    Google technologies generate a lot of social surplus even if the benefit does not go always to Google.

    Kubernetes is the standard for container orchestration and was donated by Google to an open source foundation. It's the standard now for everyone including azure, aws, even Oracle cloud.

    Tensorflow is the most popular ml framework both in production and for teaching. Donated by Google.

    Hadoop and all its countless derivatives are built a set of papers from 2005 on MapReduce that essentially tool Google's system as a blueprint.

    Angular is one of the most popular web dev frameworks. By Google.

    Go is a fast growing system programming language. Also by Google.

    This is an eclectic list which is easy to continue. Google has been great about open sourcing high quality frameworks or published enough about their production systems so that others could copy it.

    Apple also did great things such as webkit. Microsoft has been fantastic recently as well.

    There is no reason to view this as a zero sum game. We live in great times where many companies produce great tech that is open sourced from the start. 

    Google doing anything with coding is to buttress their own advertising needs. Like they'd make a dev framework if it didn't boost their ad network.
    edited May 2018 tmaymagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 72
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,455member
    sfolax said:
    I used to enjoy DED articles, but to be honest this constant bickering and "everyone else is wrong" is starting to get boring and monotonous.

    At least the other writers here bring some variety in their articles.
    I feel like I just stumble across The Onion. 

    If DED (and those who defend his editorials) were really confident about Apple’s place in the tech landscape he wouldn’t need to write these overly defensive and/or rah rah Apple’s the best (and everyone else is just copying them) articles all the time. 
    Well, it’s better than listening to people like you who constantly run the company down.
    tmayStrangeDaysmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 72
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,720member
    I wish all these companies would stop wasting time with the AI baloney, and get back to work.
  • Reply 30 of 72
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,455member
    A DED article always brings out the trolls from under the AI bridge. Keep it up Dan! Apple centric sites are the only tech sites that have trolls as permanent residents. All that Apple hate and I’m betting they don’t even visit their Android and Google fan sites... because there aren’t many and the ones that do exist are ghost towns of Google whores.
    edited May 2018 radarthekatStrangeDaysmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 72
    KITAKITA Posts: 368member
    Muntz said:
    KITA said:
    Now, a year later, Apple is prepping WWDC 18 to show off the next advancements for its platforms. You can expect it will involve more than just a copy of what others did last year, and that its advancements will rapidly deploy to a huge installed base.
    Google rapidly deploys features through apps, not OS versions. In thinking that Android works the same way as iOS, you've missed the bigger picture. Everything from Google Assistant to the launcher, and ever the dialer, are updated separate from the OS. For example, to use Google Assistant or Google Play Instant (instant apps), all you need is a device with Android 5.0 or later.
    Why the fuck do you care what an Apple news site posts about Android? Got a paycheck riding on it?
    Misinformation shouldn't be given a free pass no matter the domain.

    Users, like yourself, also shouldn't be tolerated. You're proving to be incapable of providing reasonable discussion or focusing on the content matter.

    If you having something of relevance to add, and not just continued attacks on myself and other users, feel free to share.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 32 of 72
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,395moderator
    sfolax said:
    I used to enjoy DED articles, but to be honest this constant bickering and "everyone else is wrong" is starting to get boring and monotonous.

    At least the other writers here bring some variety in their articles.
    I feel like I just stumble across The Onion. 

    If DED (and those who defend his editorials) were really confident about Apple’s place in the tech landscape he wouldn’t need to write these overly defensive and/or rah rah Apple’s the best (and everyone else is just copying them) articles all the time. 
    That’s your view, but just recognize there are many, including me, who have seen a huge amount of bias in the media against Apple, because it’s apparently a threat to it’s many competitors who spend a lot more on advertising and it’s a threat to the IT Tower of Babel geekdom that prefers technology only they can understand and control and be paid to suppprt.  We see DED’s writing as almost a lone voice pushing back against all the bias and misinformation, setting the facts straight.  And of course that’s going to be uncomfortable to exactly those constituents who irrationally rail against one of the most innovative companies in existence.  So, I understand. I feel you, man.  But just try understand where we’re coming from too. 
    minisu1980tmaylkruppStrangeDaysmagman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 72
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,395moderator

    Dracarys said:
    It's come to the point where if DED writes something you know the competition is doing something right. Everything is just twisting the truth into lies to show that the competition is failing and Apple is winning. Google most definitely didn't squander their lead in AI, they just showed how far ahead they were. If you honestly think that Siri's better than Google Assistant, then you're not even trying anymore.
    Read the article again.  He clearly states that Siri is behind.  Who’s twisting the truth here in your comment?  
    StrangeDaysraoulduke42magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 72
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,395moderator
    Where’s GatorGuy?  

    DED calls out a lot of Google initiatives in this article.  I’ve pulled them out here into a neat list and would like to get GatorGuy’s take on ALL of them.  What’s the status of each, where has Google failed or succeeded, and why (if different from the reasons DED stated)?

    Enterprise Mobile Device Management

    Slow adoption of Material Design across the Android installed base

    Web app initiative

    Duo video calling 

    Allo instant messaging with text prediction

    Daydream VR

    Android app support for Chromebooks

    Pixel C

    Project Ara (I especially want to hear about this one, which many pundits grabbed onto with suggestions it would be the ultimate threat to the iPhone)

    Google Lens

    Pixel phone sales volumes

    And why is Android suddenly now including features in support of a notch?  Why do these capabilities come only after Apple has shown the way?  

    edited May 2018 magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 72
    steven n.steven n. Posts: 1,222member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Meanwhile, in the real world, Google is setting the standard for autonomous cars, has the best assistant on the market, and keeps making advances in photos. It's still early days for all AI but to suggest they've squandered their lead is plain silly.
    I think that the point of the article is that it isn't innovation if you aren't making money at it, and almost without fail, Apple, with a small share of the smartphone market is grabbing most of the revenue and profits comparative to Android OEM'a and developers.

    Google itself is doing fine, excepting the scrutiny given it's near monopoly in search, and privacy issues, and it's persistent inability to generate much revenue off of consumer hardware. Google has noticeable leads in services and technologies that the OEM's and developers have, for the most part, been unable to leverage to enhance revenue and profit, and Google I/O doesn't appear to have accelerated that.
    If that is the point of the article then I disagree with it. Google makes its money in advertising - much of it on mobile - and uses the profits to fund innovative technologies that won't be profitable in the R&D stage. 
    How are the OEM's doing? Which "innovative technologies" has Google released that have generated any income other than from search or advertising?
    Google technologies generate a lot of social surplus even if the benefit does not go always to Google.

    Kubernetes is the standard for container orchestration and was donated by Google to an open source foundation. It's the standard now for everyone including azure, aws, even Oracle cloud.

    Tensorflow is the most popular ml framework both in production and for teaching. Donated by Google.

    Hadoop and all its countless derivatives are built a set of papers from 2005 on MapReduce that essentially tool Google's system as a blueprint.

    Angular is one of the most popular web dev frameworks. By Google.

    Go is a fast growing system programming language. Also by Google.

    This is an eclectic list which is easy to continue. Google has been great about open sourcing high quality frameworks or published enough about their production systems so that others could copy it.

    Apple also did great things such as webkit. Microsoft has been fantastic recently as well.

    There is no reason to view this as a zero sum game. We live in great times where many companies produce great tech that is open sourced from the start. 

    How AT&T Bell Lbs and Sun doing?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 72
    kcammie7kcammie7 Posts: 6member
    minglok50 said:
    sfolax said:
    I used to enjoy DED articles, but to be honest this constant bickering and "everyone else is wrong" is starting to get boring and monotonous.

    At least the other writers here bring some variety in their articles.
    I feel like I just stumble across The Onion. 

    If DED (and those who defend his editorials) were really confident about Apple’s place in the tech landscape  he wouldn’t need to write these overly defensive and/or rah rah Apple’s the best (and everyone else is jut copying them) articles all the time. 
    Not really, but i'm just calling someone up about their opinions about an article, when their comments are quite clearly biased against the topic in the first place
    This is probably DED burner account.
    KITA
  • Reply 37 of 72
    minisu1980minisu1980 Posts: 132member
    tmay said:
    Meanwhile, in the real world, Google is setting the standard for autonomous cars, has the best assistant on the market, and keeps making advances in photos. It's still early days for all AI but to suggest they've squandered their lead is plain silly.
    I think that the point of the article is that it isn't innovation if you aren't making money at it, and almost without fail, Apple, with a small share of the smartphone market is grabbing most of the revenue and profits comparative to Android OEM'a and developers.

    Google itself is doing fine, excepting the scrutiny given it's near monopoly in search, and privacy issues, and it's persistent inability to generate much revenue off of consumer hardware. Google has noticeable leads in services and technologies that the OEM's and developers have, for the most part, been unable to leverage to enhance revenue and profit, and Google I/O doesn't appear to have accelerated that.
    If that is the point of the article then I disagree with it. Google makes its money in advertising - much of it on mobile - and uses the profits to fund innovative technologies that won't be profitable in the R&D stage. 
    Or proftable in the production stage, or the launch stage or really any stage. If not for search revenues Google would have gone out of business more times than our glorious leader.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 72
    minglok50minglok50 Posts: 59member
    kcammie7 said:
    minglok50 said:
    sfolax said:
    I used to enjoy DED articles, but to be honest this constant bickering and "everyone else is wrong" is starting to get boring and monotonous.

    At least the other writers here bring some variety in their articles.
    I feel like I just stumble across The Onion. 

    If DED (and those who defend his editorials) were really confident about Apple’s place in the tech landscape  he wouldn’t need to write these overly defensive and/or rah rah Apple’s the best (and everyone else is jut copying them) articles all the time. 
    Not really, but i'm just calling someone up about their opinions about an article, when their comments are quite clearly biased against the topic in the first place
    This is probably DED burner account.
    I wish I was that eloquent in writing articles, whereas you just come onto these forums to post anything negative. Well done!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 72
    minglok50minglok50 Posts: 59member
    tmay said:
    Meanwhile, in the real world, Google is setting the standard for autonomous cars, has the best assistant on the market, and keeps making advances in photos. It's still early days for all AI but to suggest they've squandered their lead is plain silly.
    I think that the point of the article is that it isn't innovation if you aren't making money at it, and almost without fail, Apple, with a small share of the smartphone market is grabbing most of the revenue and profits comparative to Android OEM'a and developers.

    Google itself is doing fine, excepting the scrutiny given it's near monopoly in search, and privacy issues, and it's persistent inability to generate much revenue off of consumer hardware. Google has noticeable leads in services and technologies that the OEM's and developers have, for the most part, been unable to leverage to enhance revenue and profit, and Google I/O doesn't appear to have accelerated that.
    The point of the article is the same as all DED articles. It’s like Fox News for Trump supporters.
    The difference is that DED produces actual facts and Fox News makes up it's stories 
    StrangeDaysraoulduke42magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 40 of 72
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 5,728member
    Dracarys said:
    It's come to the point where if DED writes something you know the competition is doing something right. Everything is just twisting the truth into lies to show that the competition is failing and Apple is winning. Google most definitely didn't squander their lead in AI, they just showed how far ahead they were. If you honestly think that Siri's better than Google Assistant, then you're not even trying anymore.
    Wrong.  That's one way to spin it to suit your narrative.

    If you guys come out of the woodwork to criticize DED's truth, I see it as DED striking a nerve that you folks know is true and has you guys coming up to defend Google.
    radarthekatlkruppmagman1979watto_cobra
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