rogifan_new said: There are laptops thinner than the rMBP that don’t have these issues. The problem isn’t thinness.
I keep hearing people make that claim, but where's the hard data? How many people have actually had the keyboard "fail" vs. just having a stuck key that can be repaired? Do other manufacturers provide any data on how reliable their keyboards are? All I know is that Apple has proven many times in the past that they have extensive testing for their hardware designs. Remember the iPhone 6 that everyone was convinced was "too bendable"? Turned out that it was well within industry standards for that.
I don’t have hard data on the failure rates of other keyboards. I’m just going by the lack of stories in the tech press or on social media. There also is no hard data that the thickness of the laptop is causing the failures. I think different things are being conflated here. Shallower key travel is not a defect. Some people might not like it but it doesn’t mean the keyboard is faulty.
This won't cost Apple that much. They calculate these things, and free warranty repairs would probably have cost a lot more than what they can settle this case for.
How about they make keyboards that aren’t faulty? Isn’t a reason people pay a premium for Apple products because their build quality is the best?
Not necessarily...yes, that may be part of it, but I doubt its the primary reason people buy Apple products. We don't really have any significant proof that there's a fault here. If Apple has sold 15 Million MacBook Pros with this new design and only say 25,000 have had repairs for keyboard issues I hardly think that's considered a major issue over the period of 3 or so years. If my math is correct, thats less than 2% failure rate and that doesn't even take into effect of user related issues. If this is the case, its just more of there's a new Apple product out and everyone has to find a major fault in it and create a huge news story out of it, sometimes even a lawsuit. Seems to happen with every new Apple product released and usually its nothing of importance in the end.
Prior to the redesign I don’t remember seeing complaints of keyboard failures. This seems a bit more widespread. It probably is a small number percentage wise but I’ll bet any money when new MBPs are released this issue will have been fixed.
nunzy said: This won't cost Apple that much. They calculate these things, and free warranty repairs would probably have cost a lot more than what they can settle this case for.
Free warranty repairs should be part of the settlement. Replacing a problematic keyboard with the same style problematic keyboard isn't much help, either.
If this is the case, its just more of there's a new Apple product out and everyone has to find a major fault in it and create a huge news story out of it, sometimes even a lawsuit. Seems to happen with every new Apple product released and usually its nothing of importance in the end.
Except for the cases where Apple releases a product with a significant fault and they institute a silent warranty program to get it fixed. 'Nothing of importance' is relative, I guess.
Most customers will be unaware an out of warranty fix for one stuck key could cost them $700. While I'm a Mac user, I'd balk at that. I've got a 2015 MacBook, and I'm tired of its keyboard, and I wonder what it would cost to replace it should something go wrong. But I don't think its keyboard is quite the same design as those in the suits.
Judging by the few replies on this post, maybe the keyboard "issue" isn't as big as it's being made out to be - I could be wrong.
You are. Very few regular posters have weighed in. This thread is fairly new, but more importantly, many probably chose not to rehash this a second time as the situation isn't much if any different from the first thread of ~200 posts. And it's just dumb to assume that a thread is somehow actually representative of the breadth of the problem.
foregoneconclusion said: I keep hearing people make that claim, but where's the hard data? How many people have actually had the keyboard "fail" vs. just having a stuck key that can be repaired? Do other manufacturers provide any data on how reliable their keyboards are? All I know is that Apple has proven many times in the past that they have extensive testing for their hardware designs. Remember the iPhone 6 that everyone was convinced was "too bendable"? Turned out that it was well within industry standards for that.
The hard data will come out in court or there's no case. Apple has and does extensive testing. And we all know that it doesn't make their designs 'bulletproof'. They still have problems. Remember that the iPhone 6 got a new stronger case, for apparently no reason, according to your implication. Do you have a link to those 'industry standards'?
I get that Apple is a bigger target for media than other brands, but that doesn't excuse them when they fall short.
Late 2017 MBP owner. Keyboard is a non-issue, noise is a non-issue, usability is a non-issue.
Stop complaining if you haven’t used one, or used one for only 1 minute at a store. Apple gives you 14 days to try it. Why aren’t we seeing news of people returning them in droves after purchase for this?
...if these new keyboards do in fact fail from a speck of dust, that’s an issue that should be addressed.
WTF? Just because an individual hasn't experienced the problem doesn't mean they can't voice a concern. Saying they've had a problem when they haven't is different and wrong.
If you're used to typing on something you like, it only takes a minute to know if this is something you don't like. The notion 'you'll get used to it' is bullshit. Some people will, as I have, begrudgingly. It's also taken a lot more than 14 days. A LOT more. Some people won't. And 'getting used to' isn't the same as liking it.
As for not returning them in droves, what are the sale figures compared to previous models? Are they being sold in droves? There are huge discounts being offered on these, and I have to wonder what kind of stockpile Apple has. There doesn't seem to be any sign of channels drying up.
Apple's pursuit of slimness is the problem. They have said out loud that this keyboard was designed with that pursuit in mind. As a result they have a noisy keyboard compare to industry standards (LMAO). That one bad key requires Apple's degree of repair is unconscionable.
This is the last MacBook I'll buy until Apple improves keyboard feel and noise. Key travel isn't strictly the issue for me, but it is related to the on-off nature of the keys.
I disagree this is all a matter of perception. 'You're just holding it wrong' was wrong as is 'you're just not used to it'.
Maybe Apple will change their design and provide what I and others feel is a more user-friendly keyboard. I hope so. But then I'm also hoping for a new and improved Mac mini. I can dream...
WTF? Just because an individual hasn't experienced the problem doesn't mean they can't voice a concern. Saying they've had a problem when they haven't is different and wrong.
If you're used to typing on something you like, it only takes a minute to know if this is something you don't like. The notion 'you'll get used to it' is bullshit. Some people will, as I have, begrudgingly. It's also taken a lot more than 14 days. A LOT more. Some people won't. And 'getting used to' isn't the same as liking it.
As for not returning them in droves, what are the sale figures compared to previous models? Are they being sold in droves? There are huge discounts being offered on these, and I have to wonder what kind of stockpile Apple has. There doesn't seem to be any sign of channels drying up.
Where in my post did I say "It's not happening to me, hence there can't be a problem?"
So you're saying is that someone criticizing this keyboard as "This keyboard sucks" is okay, but my opinion being "Keyboard is non-issue for me" is not? I hear way more people from the "I tried it at a store for a couple minutes and hated it" crowd than those that actually use it on a consistent basis.
I'm eight months into my 2017 MacBook Pro. My experience of using it EVERY DAY versus those that use hate it after a few minutes in a store is more reliable. Period.
If people hate it after one minute at a store, fine. I think it speaks more to their ability (or lack thereof) of being open to change than anything physically wrong. I found the new keyboard different for me at first. However, I don't let an initial emotion control what I do. I give things a chance so that I can say I actually made an attempt. This is a keyboard and not something like one's head banging the roof of a new car one is test driving. There's a difference.
I knew I could always return the laptop before it's two-week return policy expires if it really was that bad. After ONE DAY of a normal work day, I didn't even notice a difference. I was typing as fast and normal as my prior MacBook.
If people are that quick to judge something after a minute, makes me think of what else they do in life that they are so quick to judge before actually giving things a try. They sound high-maintenance to me.
The one thing I do agree with is that if there is an inherent, engineering flaw with this keyboard that has it breaking prematurely, I think it must be addressed by Apple. I just dispute the claims of people thinking their one-minute test of a keyboard (or anything else) at a store is the de-facto proof of something that is not.
As far as what the sales figures are.. I couldn't care less. I've seen MacBooks going on crazy sales from Adorama, B&H, etc.. every year for as long as I can remember. I don't see this year or even last year being any different than years prior. You're just fishing for something (in my opinion only) in an empty lake. Keep that conspiracy going though!
I have two 2016 MBP W/touchbar. One has already been replaced and the other is starting to have a sticky J & I as well as a usb-c port that has completely stopped responding.
I have the 2017 model. Hate the keyboard. Had many issues. They have let up for a while. Space bar not registering. Letters stopping working. Compressed air and more. I have had MANY Apple laptops. This one is different. And the huge trackpad. Maybe artists love it. Touch it a little bit by accident and end up opening and starting a new email. Or selecting and then typing over swathes of text. Without Command-Z I would have returned this and bought an Air. Super costly 15” with touch bar. Love the huge drive I put in, the large screen, the MacOS. But beyond that it’s a purchase I greatly regret. I rarely get more than 3 hours of power without recharging. First time I can think of with Apple that I am regretting. Other than the PowerBeats 3 which also was written about today. Two devices. with issues. Buyer beware says this huge Apple fan. It’s all for show, but less for use lately. Hope they get back on the “it just works” rails.
As for not returning them in droves, what are the sale figures compared to previous models? Are they being sold in droves? There are huge discounts being offered on these, and I have to wonder what kind of stockpile Apple has. There doesn't seem to be any sign of channels drying up.
Apple's pursuit of slimness is the problem. They have said out loud that this keyboard was designed with that pursuit in mind. As a result they have a noisy keyboard compare to industry standards (LMAO). That one bad key requires Apple's degree of repair is unconscionable.
This is the last MacBook I'll buy until Apple improves keyboard feel and noise. Key travel isn't strictly the issue for me, but it is related to the on-off nature of the keys.
I disagree this is all a matter of perception. 'You're just holding it wrong' was wrong as is 'you're just not used to it'.
Maybe Apple will change their design and provide what I and others feel is a more user-friendly keyboard. I hope so. But then I'm also hoping for a new and improved Mac mini. I can dream...
Agree all the way. Tired of posting again and again, but try to in my lack-of-free-time and I made sure I got the AppleCare this time!! As for returning, I had all my data on it, over 1TB and no other models have more than 1TB so then weighed the pluses and minuses, but I regularly hate it. Can’t type on the phone or people say things. I will limp through, but yes, I should have used it a lot in the store. I trusted Apple based on past experience. But this one was way to much $$$ for me to trust next time without days of store testing. Ugh, not happy. Would never recommend. My partner has the Air and none of my issues.
Comments
Except for the cases where Apple releases a product with a significant fault and they institute a silent warranty program to get it fixed. 'Nothing of importance' is relative, I guess.
Most customers will be unaware an out of warranty fix for one stuck key could cost them $700. While I'm a Mac user, I'd balk at that. I've got a 2015 MacBook, and I'm tired of its keyboard, and I wonder what it would cost to replace it should something go wrong. But I don't think its keyboard is quite the same design as those in the suits.
You are. Very few regular posters have weighed in. This thread is fairly new, but more importantly, many probably chose not to rehash this a second time as the situation isn't much if any different from the first thread of ~200 posts. And it's just dumb to assume that a thread is somehow actually representative of the breadth of the problem.
The hard data will come out in court or there's no case. Apple has and does extensive testing. And we all know that it doesn't make their designs 'bulletproof'. They still have problems. Remember that the iPhone 6 got a new stronger case, for apparently no reason, according to your implication. Do you have a link to those 'industry standards'?
I get that Apple is a bigger target for media than other brands, but that doesn't excuse them when they fall short.
As it applies to you. Otherwise that's a bullshit statement. There are a lot of people who don't share your opinion, and rightfully so.
WTF? Just because an individual hasn't experienced the problem doesn't mean they can't voice a concern. Saying they've had a problem when they haven't is different and wrong.
If you're used to typing on something you like, it only takes a minute to know if this is something you don't like. The notion 'you'll get used to it' is bullshit. Some people will, as I have, begrudgingly. It's also taken a lot more than 14 days. A LOT more. Some people won't. And 'getting used to' isn't the same as liking it.
As for not returning them in droves, what are the sale figures compared to previous models? Are they being sold in droves? There are huge discounts being offered on these, and I have to wonder what kind of stockpile Apple has. There doesn't seem to be any sign of channels drying up.
Apple's pursuit of slimness is the problem. They have said out loud that this keyboard was designed with that pursuit in mind. As a result they have a noisy keyboard compare to industry standards (LMAO). That one bad key requires Apple's degree of repair is unconscionable.
This is the last MacBook I'll buy until Apple improves keyboard feel and noise. Key travel isn't strictly the issue for me, but it is related to the on-off nature of the keys.
I disagree this is all a matter of perception. 'You're just holding it wrong' was wrong as is 'you're just not used to it'.
Maybe Apple will change their design and provide what I and others feel is a more user-friendly keyboard. I hope so. But then I'm also hoping for a new and improved Mac mini. I can dream...
So you're saying is that someone criticizing this keyboard as "This keyboard sucks" is okay, but my opinion being "Keyboard is non-issue for me" is not? I hear way more people from the "I tried it at a store for a couple minutes and hated it" crowd than those that actually use it on a consistent basis.
I'm eight months into my 2017 MacBook Pro. My experience of using it EVERY DAY versus those that use hate it after a few minutes in a store is more reliable. Period.
I knew I could always return the laptop before it's two-week return policy expires if it really was that bad. After ONE DAY of a normal work day, I didn't even notice a difference. I was typing as fast and normal as my prior MacBook.
If people are that quick to judge something after a minute, makes me think of what else they do in life that they are so quick to judge before actually giving things a try. They sound high-maintenance to me.
The one thing I do agree with is that if there is an inherent, engineering flaw with this keyboard that has it breaking prematurely, I think it must be addressed by Apple. I just dispute the claims of people thinking their one-minute test of a keyboard (or anything else) at a store is the de-facto proof of something that is not.
As far as what the sales figures are.. I couldn't care less. I've seen MacBooks going on crazy sales from Adorama, B&H, etc.. every year for as long as I can remember. I don't see this year or even last year being any different than years prior. You're just fishing for something (in my opinion only) in an empty lake. Keep that conspiracy going though!