Rumor: Apple working on new device family under codename 'Star' [u]

Posted:
in General Discussion edited May 26
Apple is rumored to be working on a new device family that, according to a decidedly sparse report, combines technology from the company's iOS and Mac device lineups.

ModBook
Axiotron's ModBook hybrid Mac tablet, circa 2007.


According to 9to5Mac, the project, known internally as "Star," involves prototypes sporting a touchscreen, SIM card slot, GPS, compass and water resistant housing. A small batch of these "N84" devices have been manufactured by Apple supplier Pegatron and shipped to the company's headquarters in Cupertino.

No sources are cited and the report provides exceedingly few details on the Star initiative, making it difficult to ascertain what, if anything, can be concluded from the proffered information.

The report fails to mention screen size, processor design, format or, perhaps most importantly, whether the device includes a keyboard. It does, however, speculate that Star could be the banner under which Apple is developing a widely rumored ARM-based MacBook or, alternatively, an iOS notebook. How the publication arrived at those conclusions is left unreported.

Prototypes in circulation boot using an Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) like Apple's current Intel-based Macs, which the report suggests points to an ARM-powered MacBook convertible. However, the machines are said to run a "derivative" of iOS, not macOS.

Though the -- admittedly scant -- hardware specifications provided imply nothing more than a next-generation iPad with water-resistant casing, 9to5Mac claims the hardware is classified as a new device family, distinct from Apple's existing iOS product lines.

Parts leaker Steve Hemmerstoffer, who has in the past provided accurate information regarding Apple's future product plans, refuted details of the report. Hemmerstoffer was first to mention the N84 device designation in April.

Apple has long been rumored to transition its Mac lineup from Intel processors to its own ARM-based designs, with prognostications of an imminent switch dating back to the company's 2008 purchase of chip designer PA Semi. Hearsay continued in fits and starts, punctuated by the odd report claiming an impending move away from Intel.

A report earlier this month breathed new life into the rumor mill, saying Apple has plans to ditch the x86 architecture for in-house silicon by 2020.

This article has been updated with additional information about the N84 product designation.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 90
    asciiascii Posts: 5,930member
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    thtcornchip
  • Reply 2 of 90
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    macxpresstoysandmewozwozbaconstangpscooter63aylkzoetmbrazorpitmuthuk_vanalingamjony0
  • Reply 3 of 90
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,607member
    Yeah I can see people getting their hopes up over this...especially those that think Apple should work on an iOS based laptop with a keyboard and mouse. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 90
    asciiascii Posts: 5,930member
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
  • Reply 5 of 90
    Maybe Apple will finally develop that hybrid computer they patented years ago. 

    Imagine a tablet with the heft of a 15” MBP, that slides into the side of an iMac. Sort of like how Lenovo’s have always been able to dock into a system that expands the components and allows you to have a larger screen. Similar to the PowerBook Duo Apple had back in the day of their portables. 
  • Reply 6 of 90
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    macxpress said:
    Yeah I can see people getting their hopes up over this...especially those that think Apple should work on an iOS based laptop with a keyboard and mouse. 
    There's a lot to unpack with the following paragraph..
    Prototypes in circulation boot using an Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) like Apple's current Intel-based Macs, which the report suggests points to an ARM-powered MacBook convertible. However, the machines are said to run a "derivative" of iOS, not macOS. 
    I can see a lot of speculation with little to no actual factual data going into creating that conclusion.

    But let's say Apple does have a great hybrid in mind, would it use iOS or macOS as its core? Hopefully people are past the simplistic notion that ARM = iOS and Intel = macOS, but I doubt I could be so lucky. If Apple were to make a hybrid device that can function as both a tablet and as a laptop or docked desktop, how would they do it? Would it be better to start with iOS and then build up the HW/drivers and frameworks needed to then support the new I/O needs for also making it like a Mac? Can macOS be ported over to iOS? Would they even want to, or would they want to use this product as a way to ushering in the future of macOS by creating a very efficient, Swift-based desktop UI for this rumoured "Star."

    It wouldn't too off base with how they've brought more efficient code back to the Mac after finding ways to make it more efficient for the iPhone. It's also not like Apple doesn't have a history of multiple UIs being stored on a device, but this would be a completely different undertaking than including CarPlay on an iPhone. At this point, I'm expecting to see an ARM-based Mac before I see an Apple tablet running the iOS UI that will convert to a desktop OS when used in a certain way or plugged into certain HW.
    mcdaveraoulduke42cornchip
  • Reply 7 of 90
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
    You can really see an iMac booting up with iOS on it? I see no future where that happens. Zero chance it's just a bunch of giant icons designed for the iPad on a 27" iMac. macOS on ARM, absolutely; but iOS instead of macOS on a Mac that has no touchscreen display, absolutely not. The OSes are defined by their respective UIs and I/O, not their processor architecture. This is why iOS is unique from tvOS while all running similar ARM configurations.
    edited May 25 nunzyradarthekatmwhiteraoulduke42elijahgzoetmb
  • Reply 8 of 90
    thttht Posts: 2,925member
    We would Apple use EFI on an ARM device? What’s used in iPhones and iPads, and why would Apple stop using that on a new ARM device?
    elijahg
  • Reply 9 of 90
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,607member
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
    You can really see an iMac booting up with iOS on it? I see no future where that happens. Zero chance it's just a bunch of giant icons designed for the iPad on a 27" iMac. macOS on ARM, absolutely; but iOS instead of macOS on a Mac that has no touchscreen display, absolutely not.
    Yeah I agree...I see absolutely no benefit for that at all. When you buy an iMac (or any Mac) you expect a desktop experience. Putting iOS on a Mac as its main OS its just pointless IMO and if anyone thinks this will enable Apple to make this magical $200 Mac with a 13" iOS Book then you're living in a fantasy world. 

    What I think this is...is just simply a Mac running with their own CPU/GPU like I've said in the past that they're working on (Mac mini and MacBook Air). We'll see exactly how much iOS stuff is on this. Since iOS obviously runs on ARM already, Apple could just be using a custom macOS with some iOS stuff implemented into it to make it work better with ARM, but this doesn't mean that its gonna have an iOS type UI. Like I said, I think people expect a desktop experience when they get a Mac and if you try to merge iOS and macOS you get crapOS in the end. 
  • Reply 10 of 90
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    tht said:
    We would Apple use EFI on an ARM device? What’s used in iPhones and iPads, and why would Apple stop using that on a new ARM device?
    I've never really thought about it before. I wonder if it's SecureROM that Apple would be turning to for Macs that ditch x86_64 processors for their own silicon (is that even the same thing? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) Does a Mac notebook with soldered NAND and RAM running ARM even need UEFI if they have a homegrown solution for their many ARM-based devices? How would this affect partitioning of the drive? or supporting different file formats? I assume Apple could add this stuff, but would they bother? I can see both a path to an ARM-based Mac that is both the same macOS and one that obfuscates much of the UI like in iOS and only allows for the Mac App Store to make it less confusing and daunting for the standard user.

    edited May 25
  • Reply 11 of 90
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,639member
    Soli said:
    macxpress said:
    Yeah I can see people getting their hopes up over this...especially those that think Apple should work on an iOS based laptop with a keyboard and mouse. 
    There's a lot to unpack with the following paragraph..
    Prototypes in circulation boot using an Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) like Apple's current Intel-based Macs, which the report suggests points to an ARM-powered MacBook convertible. However, the machines are said to run a "derivative" of iOS, not macOS. 
    I can see a lot of speculation with little to no actual factual data going into creating that conclusion.

    But let's say Apple does have a great hybrid in mind, would it use iOS or macOS as its core? Hopefully people are past the simplistic notion that ARM = iOS and Intel = macOS, but I doubt I could be so lucky. If Apple were to make a hybrid device that can function as both a tablet and as a laptop or docked desktop, how would they do it? Would it be better to start with iOS and then build up the HW/drivers and frameworks needed to then support the new I/O needs for also making it like a Mac? Can macOS be ported over to iOS? Would they even want to, or would they want to use this product as a way to ushering in the future of macOS by creating a very efficient, Swift-based desktop UI for this rumoured "Star."

    It wouldn't too off base with how they've brought more efficient code back to the Mac after finding ways to make it more efficient for the iPhone. It's also not like Apple doesn't have a history of multiple UIs being stored on a device, but this would be a completely different undertaking than including CarPlay on an iPhone. At this point, I'm expecting to see an ARM-based Mac before I see an Apple tablet running the iOS UI that will convert to a desktop OS when used in a certain way or plugged into certain HW.
    "But let's say Apple does have a great hybrid in mind, would it use iOS or macOS as its core?"

    I think it will be along the lines of this.




    edited May 25 ascii
  • Reply 12 of 90
    asciiascii Posts: 5,930member
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
    You can really see an iMac booting up with iOS on it? I see no future where that happens. Zero chance it's just a bunch of giant icons designed for the iPad on a 27" iMac. macOS on ARM, absolutely; but iOS instead of macOS on a Mac that has no touchscreen display, absolutely not. The OSes are defined by their respective UIs and I/O, not their processor architecture. This is why iOS is unique from tvOS while all running similar ARM configurations.
    As a programmer I see an OS as primarily defined by its APIs not its user interface, and adding a new shell to iOS does not seem like that big of a deal to me. 

    From what I can see they've already started, iOS now has a Dock and a Finder (in the form of the Files app). It can also now run multiple apps split screen. Behind the scenes that is probably implemented with the same window server the Mac uses, with the two side-by-side apps actually being side-by-side borderless windows. It's really a small step from there to 3 or 4 apps running at once in windows you can move around. So then you have a Finder, a Dock, and apps running in windows you can move around. Not too far from a Mac, with the one obvious missing thing being a menu bar. iOS desktop probably won't have menu bars.

    As you say the CPU model is neither here nor there.
    williamlondonradarthekatGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 13 of 90
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
    You can really see an iMac booting up with iOS on it? I see no future where that happens. Zero chance it's just a bunch of giant icons designed for the iPad on a 27" iMac. macOS on ARM, absolutely; but iOS instead of macOS on a Mac that has no touchscreen display, absolutely not. The OSes are defined by their respective UIs and I/O, not their processor architecture. This is why iOS is unique from tvOS while all running similar ARM configurations.
    As a programmer I see an OS as primarily defined by its APIs not its user interface, and adding a new shell to iOS does not seem like that big of a deal to me. 
    Then you know APIs can be the same disparate Uis and architectures. From last year's WWDC…
  • Reply 14 of 90
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 916member
    Interesting and macOS x was old the other day as Mac classic was when it was introduced. Is it time for a Mac overhaul?

    in the UI layer maybe and it hasnt hit the dream of o connected computing whole that you just position yourself in front of based on task. Which is still a highly desirable thing in many places both home and at work.

    I still think the next step is a thin Mac that is minimal hardware to get a desktop app running then dispatch more intense tasks for to a shared resource and live stream it back. Not unlike Steamlink does with games. A new UX build from the ground up on the assumption the processing is happening asynchronous would be needed to make it smooth. 

    Star  sounds like it could fit with that. Also sounds like it would need to be at WWDC as at least a preview and development kit given other timing. 
  • Reply 15 of 90
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    Soli said:
    macxpress said:
    Yeah I can see people getting their hopes up over this...especially those that think Apple should work on an iOS based laptop with a keyboard and mouse. 
    There's a lot to unpack with the following paragraph..
    Prototypes in circulation boot using an Extensible Firmware Interface (EFI) like Apple's current Intel-based Macs, which the report suggests points to an ARM-powered MacBook convertible. However, the machines are said to run a "derivative" of iOS, not macOS. 
    I can see a lot of speculation with little to no actual factual data going into creating that conclusion.

    But let's say Apple does have a great hybrid in mind, would it use iOS or macOS as its core? Hopefully people are past the simplistic notion that ARM = iOS and Intel = macOS, but I doubt I could be so lucky. If Apple were to make a hybrid device that can function as both a tablet and as a laptop or docked desktop, how would they do it? Would it be better to start with iOS and then build up the HW/drivers and frameworks needed to then support the new I/O needs for also making it like a Mac? Can macOS be ported over to iOS? Would they even want to, or would they want to use this product as a way to ushering in the future of macOS by creating a very efficient, Swift-based desktop UI for this rumoured "Star."

    It wouldn't too off base with how they've brought more efficient code back to the Mac after finding ways to make it more efficient for the iPhone. It's also not like Apple doesn't have a history of multiple UIs being stored on a device, but this would be a completely different undertaking than including CarPlay on an iPhone. At this point, I'm expecting to see an ARM-based Mac before I see an Apple tablet running the iOS UI that will convert to a desktop OS when used in a certain way or plugged into certain HW.
    "But let's say Apple does have a great hybrid in mind, would it use iOS or macOS as its core?"

    I think it will be along the lines of this.


    Running iOS apps on an iPad always looked bad so I'm not sure that Apple would want to return to that half-measure. I'd hope that the developer community is strong enough and Apple's continued efforts in making it easier for developers to update apps will keep users from running iPhone apps on a Mac instead of getting apps designed for the platform.
  • Reply 16 of 90
    asciiascii Posts: 5,930member
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
    You can really see an iMac booting up with iOS on it? I see no future where that happens. Zero chance it's just a bunch of giant icons designed for the iPad on a 27" iMac. macOS on ARM, absolutely; but iOS instead of macOS on a Mac that has no touchscreen display, absolutely not. The OSes are defined by their respective UIs and I/O, not their processor architecture. This is why iOS is unique from tvOS while all running similar ARM configurations.
    As a programmer I see an OS as primarily defined by its APIs not its user interface, and adding a new shell to iOS does not seem like that big of a deal to me. 
    Then you know APIs can be the same disparate Uis and architectures. From last year's WWDC…
    Yup they are gradually unifying APIs on macOS and iOS, and Spotlight is one example. But I just see that as them encouraging Mac developers to code more and more to iOS APIs, so that when they eventually replace macOS with iOS Desktop, the programmers will find their apps are 90% ported already.  

    They have been doing the same thing on the hardware side, ever so slowly making Mac hardware more iOS like. Fewer and fewer replaceable parts. More wireless and less ports. Keyboards so flat they're not much different to typing on a touch screen. Tim Cook likes boiling frogs, he is a patient man.
    bikertwinradarthekat
  • Reply 17 of 90
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,374member
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
    You can really see an iMac booting up with iOS on it? I see no future where that happens. Zero chance it's just a bunch of giant icons designed for the iPad on a 27" iMac. macOS on ARM, absolutely; but iOS instead of macOS on a Mac that has no touchscreen display, absolutely not. The OSes are defined by their respective UIs and I/O, not their processor architecture. This is why iOS is unique from tvOS while all running similar ARM configurations.
    As a programmer I see an OS as primarily defined by its APIs not its user interface, and adding a new shell to iOS does not seem like that big of a deal to me. 
    Then you know APIs can be the same disparate Uis and architectures. From last year's WWDC…
    Yup they are gradually unifying APIs on macOS and iOS, and Spotlight is one example. But I just see that as them encouraging Mac developers to code more and more to iOS APIs, so that when they eventually replace macOS with iOS Desktop, the programmers will find their apps are 90% ported already.  

    They have been doing the same thing on the hardware side, ever so slowly making Mac hardware more iOS like. Fewer and fewer replaceable parts. More wireless and less ports. Keyboards so flat they're not much different to typing on a touch screen. Tim Cook likes boiling frogs, he is a patient man.
    So you think they'll replace macOS with something that looks and functions the exact same way for the user on the Mac but cal it iOS Desktop, not macOS to refer to the OS that runs on a Mac and only a Mac? As watchOS grows to make it better for developers do you also think that will happen there, so that watchOS will eventually replace iOS and be called iOS Watchface on the iPhone instead of simply referring to it as iOS? I don't see either of these things ever happening.

    What do you see as the benefit to name a unique OS the same as an OS for a completely different device platform with different I/O? Even if Apple could theoretically make it so that a 3rd party developer could develop for the iPhone and it be 100% compatible for the Mac despite the extremely different UIs and I/O. the branding is for its users, not for coders. So how does calling macOS on a 27" iMac Pro iOS Desktop work for the user or Apple's branding?
    edited May 26 mcdave
  • Reply 18 of 90
    asciiascii Posts: 5,930member
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    Soli said:
    ascii said:
    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
    You can really see an iMac booting up with iOS on it? I see no future where that happens. Zero chance it's just a bunch of giant icons designed for the iPad on a 27" iMac. macOS on ARM, absolutely; but iOS instead of macOS on a Mac that has no touchscreen display, absolutely not. The OSes are defined by their respective UIs and I/O, not their processor architecture. This is why iOS is unique from tvOS while all running similar ARM configurations.
    As a programmer I see an OS as primarily defined by its APIs not its user interface, and adding a new shell to iOS does not seem like that big of a deal to me. 
    Then you know APIs can be the same disparate Uis and architectures. From last year's WWDC…
    Yup they are gradually unifying APIs on macOS and iOS, and Spotlight is one example. But I just see that as them encouraging Mac developers to code more and more to iOS APIs, so that when they eventually replace macOS with iOS Desktop, the programmers will find their apps are 90% ported already.  

    They have been doing the same thing on the hardware side, ever so slowly making Mac hardware more iOS like. Fewer and fewer replaceable parts. More wireless and less ports. Keyboards so flat they're not much different to typing on a touch screen. Tim Cook likes boiling frogs, he is a patient man.
    So you think they'll replace macOS with something that looks and functions the exact same way for the user on the Mac but cal it iOS Desktop, not macOS to refer to the OS that runs on a Mac and only a Mac? As watchOS grows to make it better for developers do you also think that will happen there, so that watchOS will eventually replace iOS and be called iOS Watchface on the iPhone instead of simply referring to it as iOS? I don't see either of these things ever happening.

    What do you see as the benefit to name a unique OS the same as an OS for a completely different device platform with different I/O? Even if Apple could theoretically make it so that a 3rd party developer could develop for the iPhone and it be 100% compatible for the Mac despite the extremely different UIs and I/O. the branding is for its users, not for coders. So how does calling macOS on a 27" iMac Pro iOS Desktop work for the user or Apple's branding?
    I think they'll eventually get rid of the Mac brand, and even (shock, horror) the "i" brand. They'll have the Apple Watch, Apple TV, Apple Phone, Apple Computer, Apple Glasses. Wouldn't that be consistent with their newest products?

    And they will all run the same OS with different shells. I have been calling it iOS but it could just be appleOS. The benefit to the user would be that you could buy one app that runs on everything, just switching its user interface as needed. 

    This is not a new concept, its just a question of whether Apple is doing it or not. They are definitely unifying their operating systems at a low level but it is unknown whether this is just for efficiency/common sense or part of a bigger plan. Maybe it's just unjustified Platonism but I think the later. The project Marzipan someone mentioned earlier is along these lines so we might get more information at WWDC.
    bikertwinradarthekat
  • Reply 19 of 90
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 916member
    Soli said:
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    This is exciting news because if Apple wants to retire the Mac I would rather move to an iOS notebook than to Windows.

    Also, when Apple retired the Airport a few weeks ago, I and others said it might be because they were moving away from WiFi and focussing on 5G cellular (where the puck is going). And now we have a rumor of a notebook with cellular (joining the phone, ipad and watch). 
    I wouldn't bet on Apple getting rid of Mac or getting rid of WiFi.
    I don't think Mac will die, it will just transition to being iOS with a desktop mode. Someone made a Tweet today pointing out that macOS/OS X is now older than classic MacOS was when Steve gave it a mock funeral. Did you regard the Mac as having died when it made that transition? Because if not, the switch from current macOS to iOS desktop actually be a smaller change. It wouldn't even be a kernel change this time. So if the Mac didn't die that time it wouldn't die this time.

    I don't think they will remove the WiFi radios from their devices, they're cheap enough to just leave in, but they will/have stop selling WiFi infrastructure of their own and start including cellular in everything. A future where little cellular radios are ubiquitous in most smart devices seems to be the future. This how small the Apple Watch is and even it has one.
    You can really see an iMac booting up with iOS on it? I see no future where that happens. Zero chance it's just a bunch of giant icons designed for the iPad on a 27" iMac. macOS on ARM, absolutely; but iOS instead of macOS on a Mac that has no touchscreen display, absolutely not. The OSes are defined by their respective UIs and I/O, not their processor architecture. This is why iOS is unique from tvOS while all running similar ARM configurations.
    As a programmer I see an OS as primarily defined by its APIs not its user interface, and adding a new shell to iOS does not seem like that big of a deal to me. 
    Then you know APIs can be the same disparate Uis and architectures. From last year's WWDC…
    Yup they are gradually unifying APIs on macOS and iOS, and Spotlight is one example. But I just see that as them encouraging Mac developers to code more and more to iOS APIs, so that when they eventually replace macOS with iOS Desktop, the programmers will find their apps are 90% ported already.  

    They have been doing the same thing on the hardware side, ever so slowly making Mac hardware more iOS like. Fewer and fewer replaceable parts. More wireless and less ports. Keyboards so flat they're not much different to typing on a touch screen. Tim Cook likes boiling frogs, he is a patient man.
    So you think they'll replace macOS with something that looks and functions the exact same way for the user on the Mac but cal it iOS Desktop, not macOS to refer to the OS that runs on a Mac and only a Mac? As watchOS grows to make it better for developers do you also think that will happen there, so that watchOS will eventually replace iOS and be called iOS Watchface on the iPhone instead of simply referring to it as iOS? I don't see either of these things ever happening.

    What do you see as the benefit to name a unique OS the same as an OS for a completely different device platform with different I/O? Even if Apple could theoretically make it so that a 3rd party developer could develop for the iPhone and it be 100% compatible for the Mac despite the extremely different UIs and I/O the branding is for users, not for coders. So how does calling macOS on a 27" iMac Pro iOS Desktop work for the user or Apple's branding?
    I think it's a matter of usurp not replace. Like the OS X transition or even the orginal Apple][ to Mac transistion it has to very quickly get to the point that users want to move becuase it is compete in it's own right. So given history it's going to have it's own name. 
    edited May 26
  • Reply 20 of 90
    People don’t seem to be realizing that Springboard (your home screen) is not iOS, it is part of iOS, but it is part of the iOS UI, which obviously would be different depending on the device. 

    Watch and TV’s respective systems are already based on iOS just with some chunks removed and some stuff added that’s specific to their platforms. iOS and macOS are already like this to some degree. The original iOS was based on a stripped down version of Snow Leopard. 

    The big big question is, will Apple use the transition to “iOS desktop edition” as an excuse to lock down Macs to only sandboxes apps from the App Store? If so this would largely kill a lot of piracy on the Mac, you’d have no torrent clients, and you would be killing off a lot of bigger apps that have resisted Apple’s direction to bundle themselves into single bundles. 

    Im really hoping that Apple leaves the restrictions on what can and can’t run the way they currently are. I don’t want to have to run a Windows or Linux NUC for torrents. 

    That said other than that I welcome the shift to ARM. We will also be in a better space for apps than we were when we went PPC to Intel or Classic to X, since Adobe should already know that if they drag their feet Apple can just pump a bit of money into Serif and then eat their lunch. Microsoft already had office on iOS etc. 

    I also do think the move to integrate cellular into all Macs would be a smart idea. And I really really hope these new ones ship with Pencil support. Being able to use pencil in graphic apps on a device as capable as a MacBook Pro would be a dream. 
    asciibikertwinraoulduke42cornchip
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