If Apple knew the phone could be more susceptible to bending but didn’t attempt to fix and shipped anyway that doesn’t look good. I’d like to see some of the actual documentation.
That’s not the determining factor of negligence. If the 5S and the 6 and the 6+ all were sufficiently strong to withstand ‘normal’ use, then it doesn’t matter that one is less resistant to bending than the others. Because they all are at least as good as they need to be in that regard.
The question then becomes, do certain use cases represent normal use? I’d say sitting on a smartphone, or any glass-covered electronic slab would fall well outside of acceptable normal handling of the device. That any of these actually sustains such handling is impressive but should not impose a requirement on manufacturers to guarantee such.
Fit for purpose... Would you be surprised to discover someone putting their phone in their front or back pocket? Neither would any of the OEM's. When they brag about these supposedly strong casings for their smartphones the inference would be they don't need to be coddled to prevent warping.
The purpose of a smartphone is to connect to the world, not to be sat upon. The purpose of a wine glass is to aerate the wine and define its bouquet, not to be set upon the dashboard of a moving vehicle. Any reasonable person would likely agree that transporting either product in such a manner would not be considered proper care and handling.
As I said in my original post, the fact that many smartphones survive such abuse should not impose a requirement to do so. Just as the fact your kid’s bike might survive his use of it in parkour activities does not impose upon its manufacturer a requirement to be fit for that use case.
As evidence that you might be wrong in your viewpoint didn't Apple themselves determine the aluminum structure used for the 6 wasn't as rigid as it needed to be and thus engineered changes to it for the 6S to help prevent the issue? Yes sir I do believe so.
Apple continuing to improve their product doesn’t offer evidence to the contrary of Radar’s point. At all.
If Apple knew the phone could be more susceptible to bending but didn’t attempt to fix and shipped anyway that doesn’t look good. I’d like to see some of the actual documentation.
That’s not the determining factor of negligence. If the 5S and the 6 and the 6+ all were sufficiently strong to withstand ‘normal’ use, then it doesn’t matter that one is less resistant to bending than the others. Because they all are at least as good as they need to be in that regard.
The question then becomes, do certain use cases represent normal use? I’d say sitting on a smartphone, or any glass-covered electronic slab would fall well outside of acceptable normal handling of the device. That any of these actually sustains such handling is impressive but should not impose a requirement on manufacturers to guarantee such.
Fit for purpose... Would you be surprised to discover someone putting their phone in their front or back pocket? Neither would any of the OEM's. When they brag about these supposedly strong casings for their smartphones the inference would be they don't need to be coddled to prevent warping.
The purpose of a smartphone is to connect to the world, not to be sat upon. The purpose of a wine glass is to aerate the wine and define its bouquet, not to be set upon the dashboard of a moving vehicle. Any reasonable person would likely agree that transporting either product in such a manner would not be considered proper care and handling.
As I said in my original post, the fact that many smartphones survive such abuse should not impose a requirement to do so. Just as the fact your kid’s bike might survive his use of it in parkour activities does not impose upon its manufacturer a requirement to be fit for that use case.
As evidence that you might be wrong in your viewpoint didn't Apple themselves determine the aluminum structure used for the 6 wasn't as rigid as it needed to be and thus engineered changes to it for the 6S to help prevent the issue? Yes sir I do believe so.
Apple continuing to improve their product doesn’t offer evidence to the contrary of Radar’s point. At all.
I’m shocked that muddy thinking can come even from GatorGuy. He’s usually quite crisp in his analysis.
If Apple knew the phone could be more susceptible to bending but didn’t attempt to fix and shipped anyway that doesn’t look good. I’d like to see some of the actual documentation.
The iPhone 6 being more suseptible to bending than the smaller iPhone 5 (All other things being equal) should not surprise anyone. The question really is if the iPhone 6 is too bendable? Its bend-ability is relationship to the 5 is irrelevant. (FWIW, I had the 6 for three plus years without issue. However, I did not sit on it either.). Humbly, I submit this whole issue is more about eager attorneys - who will bend any and all directions necessary to win a lawsuit.
this x100. any phone will bend with enough pressure. How much is too much? There is no standard that I know of. The fact that Apple was aware helps the attorneys spin it their way, though.
Next up will be a dodgy shareholder class action on the grounds that clearly Apple over engineered the iPhone 5 making in twice as strong as needed.
If Apple knew the phone could be more susceptible to bending but didn’t attempt to fix and shipped anyway that doesn’t look good. I’d like to see some of the actual documentation.
That’s not the determining factor of negligence. If the 5S and the 6 and the 6+ all were sufficiently strong to withstand ‘normal’ use, then it doesn’t matter that one is less resistant to bending than the others. Because they all are at least as good as they need to be in that regard.
The question then becomes, do certain use cases represent normal use? I’d say sitting on a smartphone, or any glass-covered electronic slab would fall well outside of acceptable normal handling of the device. That any of these actually sustains such handling is impressive but should not impose a requirement on manufacturers to guarantee such.
Fit for purpose... Would you be surprised to discover someone putting their phone in their front or back pocket? Neither would any of the OEM's. When they brag about these supposedly strong casings for their smartphones the inference would be they don't need to be coddled to prevent warping.
The purpose of a smartphone is to connect to the world, not to be sat upon. The purpose of a wine glass is to aerate the wine and define its bouquet, not to be set upon the dashboard of a moving vehicle. Any reasonable person would likely agree that transporting either product in such a manner would not be considered proper care and handling.
As I said in my original post, the fact that many smartphones survive such abuse should not impose a requirement to do so. Just as the fact your kid’s bike might survive his use of it in parkour activities does not impose upon its manufacturer a requirement to be fit for that use case.
As evidence that you might be wrong in your viewpoint didn't Apple themselves determine the aluminum structure used for the 6 wasn't as rigid as it needed to be and thus engineered changes to it for the 6S to help prevent the issue? Yes sir I do believe so.
Apple continuing to improve their product doesn’t offer evidence to the contrary of Radar’s point. At all.
Well, I agree that the 6000 series was NOT the root cause of bending issues with iPhone 6 and 6 plus. It was due to a minor design fault (issues which typically occur with 1st generation Apple devices, this was the 1st generation large screen phones for Apple). I am making this comment based on the fact that HMD (the OEM with a license to make Nokia branded smartphones now) is able to launch a phone with the same 6000 series Aluminum in Nokia 6 2018 model successfully without bending issue.
If Apple knew the phone could be more susceptible to bending but didn’t attempt to fix and shipped anyway that doesn’t look good. I’d like to see some of the actual documentation.
That’s not the determining factor of negligence. If the 5S and the 6 and the 6+ all were sufficiently strong to withstand ‘normal’ use, then it doesn’t matter that one is less resistant to bending than the others. Because they all are at least as good as they need to be in that regard.
The question then becomes, do certain use cases represent normal use? I’d say sitting on a smartphone, or any glass-covered electronic slab would fall well outside of acceptable normal handling of the device. That any of these actually sustains such handling is impressive but should not impose a requirement on manufacturers to guarantee such.
Fit for purpose... Would you be surprised to discover someone putting their phone in their front or back pocket? Neither would any of the OEM's. When they brag about these supposedly strong casings for their smartphones the inference would be they don't need to be coddled to prevent warping.
The purpose of a smartphone is to connect to the world, not to be sat upon. The purpose of a wine glass is to aerate the wine and define its bouquet, not to be set upon the dashboard of a moving vehicle. Any reasonable person would likely agree that transporting either product in such a manner would not be considered proper care and handling.
As I said in my original post, the fact that many smartphones survive such abuse should not impose a requirement to do so. Just as the fact your kid’s bike might survive his use of it in parkour activities does not impose upon its manufacturer a requirement to be fit for that use case.
As evidence that you might be wrong in your viewpoint didn't Apple themselves determine the aluminum structure used for the 6 wasn't as rigid as it needed to be and thus engineered changes to it for the 6S to help prevent the issue? Yes sir I do believe so.
Yes, you are right. Not only that, people need to go through the comments in this very thread, few of them (@StrangeDays is one of them) clearly stated that they did not abuse their iPhone 6/6+ but it still bent.
Did you watch any of the BendGate YouTube videos at the time? You’d have seen the strain on the guy’s face as he applied force to get the phone to bend. There’s just no way that holding the phone in one hand while touching and swiping the screen with the other would cause it to bend. Nor would picking it up or setting it down. If you put a candy cane in the front or rear pocket of your tight jeans and then go play basketball or sit down or otherwise flex, would you expect it to not break? Any reasonable person would think doing so might likely cause damage. But you think a large flat inflexible slab covered with glass should withstand this treatment? That’s unreasonable. The law gives a lot of weight to the reasonableness of any argument.
Nope, I did not watch any BendGate videos ever. To be honest, I am relying more on comments from people who actually used the phone. In this very same thread, @StrangeDays (you don't get a hardcore Apple fan than him ever, do you?) mentioned that his iPhone 6 was bent in normal use (I am assuming without a case). I have few colleagues with iPhone 6 but none of them bent. But here is the caveat - ALL of them have a case on it and ALL of them are ultra-careful with their phones. Bottomline is - iPhone 6 and 6 Plus had a design flaw which made it to bend in normal use - BUT the key point is, it bent depending on the end-user. Hence the majority of the people (who use their phones with case/ultra-careful) did not face the problem even though a very minority of them did face it in their normal usage scenarios.
Well, the only other attempts I saw or know of were deliberate attempt to bend it using brut force, yes it was with bear hands but the guys doing it didn’t look like they were that weak.
If Apple knew the phone could be more susceptible to bending but didn’t attempt to fix and shipped anyway that doesn’t look good. I’d like to see some of the actual documentation.
Somebody seeking monetary damages or to damage Apple might say that. But otherwise it's a meaningless, irrelevant statement: It's like saying that a wooden door is "more susceptible" to being broken than a steel door.
The only thing that matters is whether or not the device serves its purpose without breaking unnecessarily or prematurely. Simply comparing it to some other product or design means nothing.
That said: After 3 1/2 years my 6+ did just bend. I put it and my grandson's iPhone 7 in my front right pocket where I almost always carry it while we played basketball. When I pulled it out the screen was cracked. It must have bent over the other phone when I stooped down. Touch still works fine -- but no new batteries for me!
Replacing the screen on a 6+ is actually easy. Mine didn't break, but touch started responding oddly a few months ago, and gradually got worse. I'd already had the touch disease fixed, that happened a year or so ago, and the symptoms didn't match up with a reoccurrence of touch disease. I suspected it was the digitizer, the symptoms were similar to other phones with bad digitizers I've seen.
I got the screen from iFixit, I signed up with them as a reseller a while back and I already had tools, so I paid about $40 for the screen only, but there are lots of sources for 6+ screens. It wasn't my first time in an iPhone, and it took me maybe 15 minutes to change it out, plan for an hour or so if you've not opened one before. It's probably a good time to go ahead and change the battery while you've got it open. iFixit has great repair guides even if you don't order the parts from them.
If you can’t use common sense with your electronics, you don’t deserve one .
I totally agree. What dumb ass puts a super thin phone in there back pocket, sits on it and expects it to be fine!
Most people who have had cell phones for a long time (myself included) expect them to be relatively rugged devices, able to withstand pockets. A phone which can't is not really fit for its purpose, which includes not only being pretty if handled extremely carefully, but also being capable of withstanding the rigors of daily life handling without failing, albeit with perhaps a few cosmetic issues.
If the phone bends because it's too thin, then the problem isn't the user, it's the phone. Apple was clearly not prepared to build a phone that thin, and should have made it thicker.
If Apple knew the phone could be more susceptible to bending but didn’t attempt to fix and shipped anyway that doesn’t look good. I’d like to see some of the actual documentation.
That’s not the determining factor of negligence. If the 5S and the 6 and the 6+ all were sufficiently strong to withstand ‘normal’ use, then it doesn’t matter that one is less resistant to bending than the others. Because they all are at least as good as they need to be in that regard.
The question then becomes, do certain use cases represent normal use? I’d say sitting on a smartphone, or any glass-covered electronic slab would fall well outside of acceptable normal handling of the device. That any of these actually sustains such handling is impressive but should not impose a requirement on manufacturers to guarantee such.
Fit for purpose... Would you be surprised to discover someone putting their phone in their front or back pocket? Neither would any of the OEM's. When they brag about these supposedly strong casings for their smartphones the inference would be they don't need to be coddled to prevent warping.
The purpose of a smartphone is to connect to the world, not to be sat upon. The purpose of a wine glass is to aerate the wine and define its bouquet, not to be set upon the dashboard of a moving vehicle. Any reasonable person would likely agree that transporting either product in such a manner would not be considered proper care and handling.
As I said in my original post, the fact that many smartphones survive such abuse should not impose a requirement to do so. Just as the fact your kid’s bike might survive his use of it in parkour activities does not impose upon its manufacturer a requirement to be fit for that use case.
As evidence that you might be wrong in your viewpoint didn't Apple themselves determine the aluminum structure used for the 6 wasn't as rigid as it needed to be and thus engineered changes to it for the 6S to help prevent the issue? Yes sir I do believe so.
Yes, you are right. Not only that, people need to go through the comments in this very thread, few of them (@StrangeDays is one of them) clearly stated that they did not abuse their iPhone 6/6+ but it still bent.
Did you watch any of the BendGate YouTube videos at the time? You’d have seen the strain on the guy’s face as he applied force to get the phone to bend. There’s just no way that holding the phone in one hand while touching and swiping the screen with the other would cause it to bend. Nor would picking it up or setting it down. If you put a candy cane in the front or rear pocket of your tight jeans and then go play basketball or sit down or otherwise flex, would you expect it to not break? Any reasonable person would think doing so might likely cause damage. But you think a large flat inflexible slab covered with glass should withstand this treatment? That’s unreasonable. The law gives a lot of weight to the reasonableness of any argument.
Nope, I did not watch any BendGate videos ever. To be honest, I am relying more on comments from people who actually used the phone. In this very same thread, @StrangeDays (you don't get a hardcore Apple fan than him ever, do you?) mentioned that his iPhone 6 was bent in normal use (I am assuming without a case). I have few colleagues with iPhone 6 but none of them bent. But here is the caveat - ALL of them have a case on it and ALL of them are ultra-careful with their phones. Bottomline is - iPhone 6 and 6 Plus had a design flaw which made it to bend in normal use - BUT the key point is, it bent depending on the end-user. Hence the majority of the people (who use their phones with case/ultra-careful) did not face the problem even though a very minority of them did face it in their normal usage scenarios.
A given person’s ‘normal’ use case is not the standard. Reasonable handling and care is the standard. And in the history of forever I’ve never heard of sitting on one’s electronics to be considered reasonable handling and care. Where did we leave the pavement and find ourselves out among the moors on this topic? Stick to the road, stay off the moors.
If Apple knew the phone could be more susceptible to bending but didn’t attempt to fix and shipped anyway that doesn’t look good. I’d like to see some of the actual documentation.
That’s not the determining factor of negligence. If the 5S and the 6 and the 6+ all were sufficiently strong to withstand ‘normal’ use, then it doesn’t matter that one is less resistant to bending than the others. Because they all are at least as good as they need to be in that regard.
The question then becomes, do certain use cases represent normal use? I’d say sitting on a smartphone, or any glass-covered electronic slab would fall well outside of acceptable normal handling of the device. That any of these actually sustains such handling is impressive but should not impose a requirement on manufacturers to guarantee such.
Fit for purpose... Would you be surprised to discover someone putting their phone in their front or back pocket? Neither would any of the OEM's. When they brag about these supposedly strong casings for their smartphones the inference would be they don't need to be coddled to prevent warping.
The purpose of a smartphone is to connect to the world, not to be sat upon. The purpose of a wine glass is to aerate the wine and define its bouquet, not to be set upon the dashboard of a moving vehicle. Any reasonable person would likely agree that transporting either product in such a manner would not be considered proper care and handling.
As I said in my original post, the fact that many smartphones survive such abuse should not impose a requirement to do so. Just as the fact your kid’s bike might survive his use of it in parkour activities does not impose upon its manufacturer a requirement to be fit for that use case.
As evidence that you might be wrong in your viewpoint didn't Apple themselves determine the aluminum structure used for the 6 wasn't as rigid as it needed to be and thus engineered changes to it for the 6S to help prevent the issue? Yes sir I do believe so.
Yes, you are right. Not only that, people need to go through the comments in this very thread, few of them (@StrangeDays is one of them) clearly stated that they did not abuse their iPhone 6/6+ but it still bent.
Did you watch any of the BendGate YouTube videos at the time? You’d have seen the strain on the guy’s face as he applied force to get the phone to bend. There’s just no way that holding the phone in one hand while touching and swiping the screen with the other would cause it to bend. Nor would picking it up or setting it down. If you put a candy cane in the front or rear pocket of your tight jeans and then go play basketball or sit down or otherwise flex, would you expect it to not break? Any reasonable person would think doing so might likely cause damage. But you think a large flat inflexible slab covered with glass should withstand this treatment? That’s unreasonable. The law gives a lot of weight to the reasonableness of any argument.
Nope, I did not watch any BendGate videos ever. To be honest, I am relying more on comments from people who actually used the phone. In this very same thread, @StrangeDays (you don't get a hardcore Apple fan than him ever, do you?) mentioned that his iPhone 6 was bent in normal use (I am assuming without a case). I have few colleagues with iPhone 6 but none of them bent. But here is the caveat - ALL of them have a case on it and ALL of them are ultra-careful with their phones. Bottomline is - iPhone 6 and 6 Plus had a design flaw which made it to bend in normal use - BUT the key point is, it bent depending on the end-user. Hence the majority of the people (who use their phones with case/ultra-careful) did not face the problem even though a very minority of them did face it in their normal usage scenarios.
A given person’s ‘normal’ use case is not the standard. Reasonable handling and care is the standard. And in the history of forever I’ve never heard of sitting on one’s electronics to be considered reasonable handling and care. Where did we leave the pavement and find ourselves out among the moors on this topic? Stick to the road, stay off the moors.
You'll have to explain what was unreasonable about the handling and care that @StrangeDays gave to his phone then. I've seen no suggestion that it was out among the moors.
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