Disappointing if so. I don’t get the current MacBook lineup. The Pros, sure but a 12” fanless design with current technology and a 13” “Air” with old tech makes no sense to me. Add a 14” fanless MacBook and lose the Air or even bump the 12” to a 13” but the current lineup is messy.
If this is true it shows Apple has the worst product update strategy in the whole business and are taking their customers for granted. The MacBook Pro's have processors that are 2 generations behind! Dell and others have introduced 8th gen intel processors months ago. Apple is a like a slow moving dinosaur. What is wrong with a MacBook Pro update every 8 to 12 months? We deserve better than this......
The last MacBook Pro update was... 12 months ago.
And IF this story is true we won't be seeing an update until October at the earliest....... This would mean a 16 month refresh cycle! With all their R&D budget I would expect them to be able to introduce a processor update to their devices within a few months of Intel releasing them onto the market. Given that the 8th gen chips started shipping in late 2017 that seems like wishful thinking!
Not the chips that are suitable for the MacBook Pro though. Apple has had longer than 12 months upgrade cycle before as well, I don't see a big issue with that.
Sorry LJC94512 but that's not true. Quad core performance with 8th Gen was introduced last year and Dell had machines available in November.......
As I said, Apple is moving like a Dinosaur here. Whether you are supporter of Apple or not, it's hard to justify how long these refresh cycles take when others are moving over 6 months faster!
Maybe these are off or something, but the 8th Gen CPU really isn't any better in terms of performance.
This is what's currently used in the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro:
You will see the performance of that is below that of the one you think Apple could be using. The updated one does use less watts, but doesn't appear to be faster.
My point being...just because its new(er) doesn't mean its better in terms of performance which goes back to my other point of, so you just want Apple to put the newest CPU in for the sake of updating when there may actually be little to no performance increase. I think back to the days of the G4 where Apple would release new Macs with updated G4 CPU's that performed WORSE than the outgoing model in terms of performance in real world testing. Once again, the latest and greatest doesn't always mean its better and just because Dell, HP, etc are using them doesn't mean they're ahead of Apple by any means.
I am not talking about the 15 inch versions which are quad core already but the 13 inch versions which is the most popular machine by far. This is what the Dell XPS13 story is all about - comparing apples to apples and not cherry picking chips to suit your story. However to prove you wrong, even with the 7700 which is running at 45W it cannot beat the 8550 running at 15W! Don't believe me then read this:
Going back to the 13 inch version the 7th Gen MB Pro uses a 2 core chip. All 8th Gen are 4 core, even at the i3 and i5 level I believe. The speed differences as the article point out are very real and very signifiant. The conclusion of this article states "There's only one way to describe our experience with the Core i7-8550U inside the Dell XPS 13: Impressed. No wait, damned impressed would be a better way to couch it."
My point being..... The 8th Gen chips are much much faster, offer better battery life and have been around since November of last year. Why does it take 7 months for them to make it into MB Pro's? This is a legitimate question when Apple is positioning itself as the premium brand in the notebook market and when customers expect them to be competitive.
So you want Apple to update the 13" but not the 15"? That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Are the 8th gen chips really that much faster? I'd like to see some benchmarks.
I'm hoping they will say something about the mac mini. Apple needs to put out a reasonably priced headless mac. I don't don't care if its mini, any size will do.
The market for that would be way too small. iMac produces more revenue and likely makes higher margins.
What makes you think the market for that would be too small?
macxpress said: What makes you think it wouldn't be?
A lot of the Mac community seems to think so (if this and several other forums are any indication of interest). A lot of PC users are used to this kind of setup. A lot of developers use multiple monitors they probably already have. People like them for server cabinets, home entertainment purposes, etc.
Or, maybe to put it another way... a bigger market than the HomePod, Watch, iMac Pro, Mac Pro, AppleTV, or other products Apple is producing and updating.
If this is true it shows Apple has the worst product update strategy in the whole business and are taking their customers for granted. The MacBook Pro's have processors that are 2 generations behind! Dell and others have introduced 8th gen intel processors months ago. Apple is a like a slow moving dinosaur. What is wrong with a MacBook Pro update every 8 to 12 months? We deserve better than this......
The last MacBook Pro update was... 12 months ago.
And IF this story is true we won't be seeing an update until October at the earliest....... This would mean a 16 month refresh cycle! With all their R&D budget I would expect them to be able to introduce a processor update to their devices within a few months of Intel releasing them onto the market. Given that the 8th gen chips started shipping in late 2017 that seems like wishful thinking!
Not the chips that are suitable for the MacBook Pro though. Apple has had longer than 12 months upgrade cycle before as well, I don't see a big issue with that.
Sorry LJC94512 but that's not true. Quad core performance with 8th Gen was introduced last year and Dell had machines available in November.......
As I said, Apple is moving like a Dinosaur here. Whether you are supporter of Apple or not, it's hard to justify how long these refresh cycles take when others are moving over 6 months faster!
Maybe these are off or something, but the 8th Gen CPU really isn't any better in terms of performance.
This is what's currently used in the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro:
You will see the performance of that is below that of the one you think Apple could be using. The updated one does use less watts, but doesn't appear to be faster.
My point being...just because its new(er) doesn't mean its better in terms of performance which goes back to my other point of, so you just want Apple to put the newest CPU in for the sake of updating when there may actually be little to no performance increase. I think back to the days of the G4 where Apple would release new Macs with updated G4 CPU's that performed WORSE than the outgoing model in terms of performance in real world testing. Once again, the latest and greatest doesn't always mean its better and just because Dell, HP, etc are using them doesn't mean they're ahead of Apple by any means.
I am not talking about the 15 inch versions which are quad core already but the 13 inch versions which is the most popular machine by far. This is what the Dell XPS13 story is all about - comparing apples to apples and not cherry picking chips to suit your story. However to prove you wrong, even with the 7700 which is running at 45W it cannot beat the 8550 running at 15W! Don't believe me then read this:
Going back to the 13 inch version the 7th Gen MB Pro uses a 2 core chip. All 8th Gen are 4 core, even at the i3 and i5 level I believe. The speed differences as the article point out are very real and very signifiant. The conclusion of this article states "There's only one way to describe our experience with the Core i7-8550U inside the Dell XPS 13: Impressed. No wait, damned impressed would be a better way to couch it."
My point being..... The 8th Gen chips are much much faster, offer better battery life and have been around since November of last year. Why does it take 7 months for them to make it into MB Pro's? This is a legitimate question when Apple is positioning itself as the premium brand in the notebook market and when customers expect them to be competitive.
So you want Apple to update the 13" but not the 15"? That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Are the 8th gen chips really that much faster? I'd like to see some benchmarks.
Macexpress, that's not what I said or meant. My reference to the 13 inch machine is that if you look at the biggest difference in the first release 8th Gen chips they moved from two core to four cores for the versions that power the smaller 13 inch type machines. This creates a huge speed bump. In fact the update in April brought in new 6 core chips which would be great in a 15 inch MacBook Pro top end machine.
Dell and HP have already released laptops based on these chips as have others. They have been in the market for some time.
My point was and continues to be that if Apple does not bring out revised laptops at WWDC then it is not providing its customers with a competitive offering. As with the 7th Gen MB Pro's introduced last year at WWDC they will be waiting for too long after the introduction of a chip release to be competitive. Apple can't have it both ways. They want to be seen as the Pro brand where people will pay a premium. However if they don't offer the best chips within 3 to 6 months of them being released then they begin to look less like leaders and more like followers. Who pays a premium for being a follower? Apple is playing it safe by introducing hardware less frequently. That is not good for their customers or ultimately for Apple.
What about the Mac Pro? Seems like an ideal time to announce it.
I would think next WWDC (2019)...it would be quite the surprise if Apple can design a totally brand new Mac Pro from the ground up in a year. Usually its at least 2yrs for a new Mac to be designed & engineered and be ready for market. Apple isn't going to just design box and slap a bunch of off the shelf parts in it like some think. This isn't HP, its Apple.
I disagree. Not sure how long it takes to redesign a new computer, but it sure doesn't take two years. They don't have to reinvent the wheel. Apple manages to come up with a new iPhone every year. Also it has been 5 years since the latest Mac Pro was released. FIVE YEARS! Apple knew it had a dud on it's hands as soon as that non upgradeable monstrosity hit the stores. They sat on it for 5 years. It's not as if they just found out last week that they needed a new Pro machine. Who in the computer world doesn't upgrade their computers in 5 years? No one but Apple. Point is, Apple just doesn't care about the Mac. We're not asking for much. Just upgrade their desktop computers once in a while, not every five years. And don't get me started on the Mac Mini, which was downgraded back in 2014. I can't dignify that release by calling in an upgrade.
Surely, Apple wouldn't update the MacBook without fixing the keyboard. The lack of key-travel on the current keyboard makes it a nightmare for typing long articles or books. Then, of course, there's the reliability issues of stuck keys etc.
But given Apple's weird obsession with thin-ness, I fear they will ignore the thousands of people who have complained about the keyboard and just make a few cosmetic changes. I hope not, because it would be a strategic mistake not to address this issue.
My 2017 iPad Pro, 2017 MacBook Pro and 2017 Apple Watch 3 will suffice for another few years. However I'll be selling my iPhone X to Gazelle for the new larger top-of-the-line OLED version.
For such an "innovative" company, Apple has really been dragging it's feet with Mac hardware. I've been waiting forever for a new Mac Mini, a new Macbook that can handle more than 16GB of RAM and a new Mac Pro. Literally three computers I would buy in a heartbeat if Apple would get off it's a$$.
macxpress said: What makes you think it wouldn't be?
A lot of the Mac community seems to think so (if this and several other forums are any indication of interest). A lot of PC users are used to this kind of setup. A lot of developers use multiple monitors they probably already have. People like them for server cabinets, home entertainment purposes, etc.
Or, maybe to put it another way... a bigger market than the HomePod, Watch, iMac Pro, Mac Pro, AppleTV, or other products Apple is producing and updating.
What about the Mac Pro? Seems like an ideal time to announce it.
I would think next WWDC (2019)...it would be quite the surprise if Apple can design a totally brand new Mac Pro from the ground up in a year. Usually its at least 2yrs for a new Mac to be designed & engineered and be ready for market. Apple isn't going to just design box and slap a bunch of off the shelf parts in it like some think. This isn't HP, its Apple.
Do you really think HP Z workstations and Dell Precision are just a bunch of shelf parts? Maybe you should read a little about them, and you'll learn what is a real workstation. Even Apple could learn a lot from both companies.
Apple never releases products until they are fully baked. But when they do, it's worth the wait.
MBP Butterfly-Key Keyboard?
The 2017 refresh MBPs were redesigned in that respect were they not? Mine is superb.
I'm happy for you. But, my spacebar would like to have a word with you. OrIshouldsaywordwithyou. It's random. Hopefully they are looking close at the MBA if they have plans to go with the same (flawed, in my opinion) design.
If this is true it shows Apple has the worst product update strategy in the whole business and are taking their customers for granted. The MacBook Pro's have processors that are 2 generations behind! Dell and others have introduced 8th gen intel processors months ago. Apple is a like a slow moving dinosaur. What is wrong with a MacBook Pro update every 8 to 12 months? We deserve better than this......
The last MacBook Pro update was... 12 months ago.
And IF this story is true we won't be seeing an update until October at the earliest....... This would mean a 16 month refresh cycle! With all their R&D budget I would expect them to be able to introduce a processor update to their devices within a few months of Intel releasing them onto the market. Given that the 8th gen chips started shipping in late 2017 that seems like wishful thinking!
Not the chips that are suitable for the MacBook Pro though. Apple has had longer than 12 months upgrade cycle before as well, I don't see a big issue with that.
Sorry LJC94512 but that's not true. Quad core performance with 8th Gen was introduced last year and Dell had machines available in November.......
As I said, Apple is moving like a Dinosaur here. Whether you are supporter of Apple or not, it's hard to justify how long these refresh cycles take when others are moving over 6 months faster!
Maybe these are off or something, but the 8th Gen CPU really isn't any better in terms of performance.
This is what's currently used in the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro:
You will see the performance of that is below that of the one you think Apple could be using. The updated one does use less watts, but doesn't appear to be faster.
My point being...just because its new(er) doesn't mean its better in terms of performance which goes back to my other point of, so you just want Apple to put the newest CPU in for the sake of updating when there may actually be little to no performance increase. I think back to the days of the G4 where Apple would release new Macs with updated G4 CPU's that performed WORSE than the outgoing model in terms of performance in real world testing. Once again, the latest and greatest doesn't always mean its better and just because Dell, HP, etc are using them doesn't mean they're ahead of Apple by any means.
I am not talking about the 15 inch versions which are quad core already but the 13 inch versions which is the most popular machine by far. This is what the Dell XPS13 story is all about - comparing apples to apples and not cherry picking chips to suit your story. However to prove you wrong, even with the 7700 which is running at 45W it cannot beat the 8550 running at 15W! Don't believe me then read this:
Going back to the 13 inch version the 7th Gen MB Pro uses a 2 core chip. All 8th Gen are 4 core, even at the i3 and i5 level I believe. The speed differences as the article point out are very real and very signifiant. The conclusion of this article states "There's only one way to describe our experience with the Core i7-8550U inside the Dell XPS 13: Impressed. No wait, damned impressed would be a better way to couch it."
My point being..... The 8th Gen chips are much much faster, offer better battery life and have been around since November of last year. Why does it take 7 months for them to make it into MB Pro's? This is a legitimate question when Apple is positioning itself as the premium brand in the notebook market and when customers expect them to be competitive.
So you want Apple to update the 13" but not the 15"? That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. Are the 8th gen chips really that much faster? I'd like to see some benchmarks.
Macexpress, that's not what I said or meant. My reference to the 13 inch machine is that if you look at the biggest difference in the first release 8th Gen chips they moved from two core to four cores for the versions that power the smaller 13 inch type machines. This creates a huge speed bump. In fact the update in April brought in new 6 core chips which would be great in a 15 inch MacBook Pro top end machine.
Dell and HP have already released laptops based on these chips as have others. They have been in the market for some time.
My point was and continues to be that if Apple does not bring out revised laptops at WWDC then it is not providing its customers with a competitive offering. As with the 7th Gen MB Pro's introduced last year at WWDC they will be waiting for too long after the introduction of a chip release to be competitive. Apple can't have it both ways. They want to be seen as the Pro brand where people will pay a premium. However if they don't offer the best chips within 3 to 6 months of them being released then they begin to look less like leaders and more like followers. Who pays a premium for being a follower? Apple is playing it safe by introducing hardware less frequently. That is not good for their customers or ultimately for Apple.
It's funny when I'm arguing that they need to be more efficient in their recent updates, people just shook their heads and say "they're not going to speed up and that's fine". I do heard that they're slowing down to have more time to fix issues, but that's bit too slow. The same thing goes for the spec as I think a bump in the middle will be nice.
With all that said, I think some of them did happened before, like the first-gen MacBook Pro, which upgrades the display along the way.
ziegmond void said: I disagree. Not sure how long it takes to redesign a new computer, but it sure doesn't take two years. They don't have to reinvent the wheel. Apple manages to come up with a new iPhone every year. Also it has been 5 years since the latest Mac Pro was released. FIVE YEARS! Apple knew it had a dud on it's hands as soon as that non upgradeable monstrosity hit the stores. They sat on it for 5 years. It's not as if they just found out last week that they needed a new Pro machine. Who in the computer world doesn't upgrade their computers in 5 years? No one but Apple. Point is, Apple just doesn't care about the Mac. We're not asking for much. Just upgrade their desktop computers once in a while, not every five years. And don't get me started on the Mac Mini, which was downgraded back in 2014. I can't dignify that release by calling in an upgrade.
Exactly! The only question that remains, is if they have realized this as a mistake and are going to correct it, or if they have just began talking recently and throwing a bone or two to try and keep us complacent until they discontinue the Mac.
What happen next week Monday will, IMO, be quite telling. If nothing substantial happens to the Mac lineup... I'm going to have to have a long hard think before we refresh several machines in the family (which we were planning to do). I'm going to have to evaluate if I'm ready to make the jump to Windows before buying new hardware, or if I need to create a 'get by' for a few years plan until I'm ready.
Surely, Apple wouldn't update the MacBook without fixing the keyboard. The lack of key-travel on the current keyboard makes it a nightmare for typing long articles or books. Then, of course, there's the reliability issues of stuck keys etc.
Unfortunately, it is quite likely they would. Once they go for that major a design decision, it's unlikely they will backtrack, IMO.
Just as many as you have for thinking it wouldn't be...
DuhSesame said: It's funny when I'm arguing that they need to be more efficient in their recent updates, people just shook their heads and say "they're not going to speed up and that's fine". I do heard that they're slowing down to have more time to fix issues, but that's bit too slow.
They need to slow down on the software and focus on quality. It seems they are doing this, but the results remain to be seen. But, they need to speed up on hardware refresh... not necessarily re-design.
Actually, they need to slow down on hardware re-design, IMO. They are getting into a situation where they seem to be doing re-designs for re-design sake to have something 'new' out there, and mucking it up in the process.
What about the Mac Pro? Seems like an ideal time to announce it.
I would think next WWDC (2019)...it would be quite the surprise if Apple can design a totally brand new Mac Pro from the ground up in a year. Usually its at least 2yrs for a new Mac to be designed & engineered and be ready for market. Apple isn't going to just design box and slap a bunch of off the shelf parts in it like some think. This isn't HP, its Apple.
I disagree. Not sure how long it takes to redesign a new computer, but it sure doesn't take two years. They don't have to reinvent the wheel. Apple manages to come up with a new iPhone every year. Also it has been 5 years since the latest Mac Pro was released. FIVE YEARS! Apple knew it had a dud on it's hands as soon as that non upgradeable monstrosity hit the stores. They sat on it for 5 years. It's not as if they just found out last week that they needed a new Pro machine. Who in the computer world doesn't upgrade their computers in 5 years? No one but Apple. Point is, Apple just doesn't care about the Mac. We're not asking for much. Just upgrade their desktop computers once in a while, not every five years. And don't get me started on the Mac Mini, which was downgraded back in 2014. I can't dignify that release by calling in an upgrade.
I think they're beginning to care about the Mac again. You can't make apps for the massively popular iOS environment (except maybe web apps) without Macs, so they need to make sure the tools keep up with the times.
SpamSandwich said: I think they're beginning to care about the Mac again. You can't make apps for the massively popular iOS environment (except maybe web apps) without Macs, so they need to make sure the tools keep up with the times.
Yeah, but how much longer will that be the case?
My fear, is that they just too hastily decided to forget about the Mac and are now backtracking a bit to appease the developers. Tim says the Mac has a future, but he also says the Mini is important and a bunch of other stuff like that. So, it's quite clear he can just talk a good game while he's BS'ing us.
If there isn't real commitment to the Mac, then I need to start heading elsewhere. I can't be stuck with a consumer electronics fashion company mostly concerned with trendy phones and emojis. That might make them the most money (temporarily) but it isn't what I signed up for.
SpamSandwich said: I think they're beginning to care about the Mac again. You can't make apps for the massively popular iOS environment (except maybe web apps) without Macs, so they need to make sure the tools keep up with the times.
Yeah, but how much longer will that be the case?
My fear, is that they just too hastily decided to forget about the Mac and are now backtracking a bit to appease the developers. Tim says the Mac has a future, but he also says the Mini is important and a bunch of other stuff like that. So, it's quite clear he can just talk a good game while he's BS'ing us.
If there isn't real commitment to the Mac, then I need to start heading elsewhere. I can't be stuck with a consumer electronics fashion company mostly concerned with trendy phones and emojis. That might make them the most money (temporarily) but it isn't what I signed up for.
Yeah, that’s probably what I want to say about the whole update situation. Keeping a design for four and five years but without any significant improvements sounds silly, but more importantly addressing all the early issues as well. They did it before, so no reason for them not doing it this time.
Personal computers comes a long way, and for now it’s pretty mature. That said, something works reliably and a steady improvement are much more important than adding new features in today.
Just as many as you have for thinking it wouldn't be...
So you don't and think just because you a couple people here want one that everyone wants it. Honestly, I'd be extremely surprised if any Mac mini update did much for sales of it.
macxpress said: So you don't and think just because you a couple people here want one that everyone wants it. Honestly, I'd be extremely surprised if any Mac mini update did much for sales of it.
It is a whole class of computing hardware Apple doesn't make except for on the very high end/cost. Why does any computer maker make non all-in-ones?
Comments
Or, maybe to put it another way... a bigger market than the HomePod, Watch, iMac Pro, Mac Pro, AppleTV, or other products Apple is producing and updating.
Surface Book 2 13.5 - 530 points (sustained performance test)
- i7-8650U
- 15 W
- Fanless
MacBook Pro 13 with Touchbar - 380 points (sustained performance test)
- i5-7267U
- 28 W
- With fan
https://www.anandtech.com/show/12607/intel-expands-8th-gen-core-core-i9-on-mobile-iris-plus-desktop-chipsets-and-vpro
Dell and HP have already released laptops based on these chips as have others. They have been in the market for some time.
My point was and continues to be that if Apple does not bring out revised laptops at WWDC then it is not providing its customers with a competitive offering. As with the 7th Gen MB Pro's introduced last year at WWDC they will be waiting for too long after the introduction of a chip release to be competitive. Apple can't have it both ways. They want to be seen as the Pro brand where people will pay a premium. However if they don't offer the best chips within 3 to 6 months of them being released then they begin to look less like leaders and more like followers. Who pays a premium for being a follower? Apple is playing it safe by introducing hardware less frequently. That is not good for their customers or ultimately for Apple.
But given Apple's weird obsession with thin-ness, I fear they will ignore the thousands of people who have complained about the keyboard and just make a few cosmetic changes. I hope not, because it would be a strategic mistake not to address this issue.
With all that said, I think some of them did happened before, like the first-gen MacBook Pro, which upgrades the display along the way.
The only question that remains, is if they have realized this as a mistake and are going to correct it, or if they have just began talking recently and throwing a bone or two to try and keep us complacent until they discontinue the Mac.
What happen next week Monday will, IMO, be quite telling. If nothing substantial happens to the Mac lineup... I'm going to have to have a long hard think before we refresh several machines in the family (which we were planning to do). I'm going to have to evaluate if I'm ready to make the jump to Windows before buying new hardware, or if I need to create a 'get by' for a few years plan until I'm ready.
Unfortunately, it is quite likely they would. Once they go for that major a design decision, it's unlikely they will backtrack, IMO.
Just as many as you have for thinking it wouldn't be...
They need to slow down on the software and focus on quality. It seems they are doing this, but the results remain to be seen.
But, they need to speed up on hardware refresh... not necessarily re-design.
Actually, they need to slow down on hardware re-design, IMO. They are getting into a situation where they seem to be doing re-designs for re-design sake to have something 'new' out there, and mucking it up in the process.
My fear, is that they just too hastily decided to forget about the Mac and are now backtracking a bit to appease the developers. Tim says the Mac has a future, but he also says the Mini is important and a bunch of other stuff like that. So, it's quite clear he can just talk a good game while he's BS'ing us.
If there isn't real commitment to the Mac, then I need to start heading elsewhere. I can't be stuck with a consumer electronics fashion company mostly concerned with trendy phones and emojis. That might make them the most money (temporarily) but it isn't what I signed up for.
Personal computers comes a long way, and for now it’s pretty mature. That said, something works reliably and a steady improvement are much more important than adding new features in today.
So you don't and think just because you a couple people here want one that everyone wants it. Honestly, I'd be extremely surprised if any Mac mini update did much for sales of it.
Why does any computer maker make non all-in-ones?