Fast asleep, the diatribe that you attributed to me, was almost verbatim from the article that I referenced. You seem to believe that those opinions originated with me. I just agreed with its premises. I used multiple articles to refute the belief that nobody uses or burns Discs anymore! Evidently, you still don't care if other computer-makers have DVD/CD drives in their offerings, even if they out-sell Apple in the market. Do you look at USB-A, Ethernet, and Memory-Card readers as weighing you down,and burdening you, since Apple took them off some of their products? Is a one-inch laptop too thick for YOU, since Apple made their Laptops Super-thin, and took most of the Ports away?
For your information, they did infer that I was saying that I couldn't pay my physical media any longer. They even assumed that I didn't know, or have knowledge of VLC, external burners,or third-party burning software! Maybe you need to backtrack in the thread, and actually read the assumptive remarks that were made toward me. You, and others, did the same thing toward those that CHOOSE to still burn/listen to Discs, as if it's some bothersome, dreadful habit! LOL! Who are you, to tell someone else that "lugging CD's around in a Mobile situation" is a burden? I don't ask you to carry my MacBook Pro. It weighs 5.5 lbs. How heavy is an internal CD/DVD drive? It never was a burden, before. Again, I never said that I have ANY PROBLEM BURNING DISCS! I spoke about the NEAR FUTURE, and referenced, and quoted at least two articles by Long-Time Apple and Computer-Writers( and a Website), to backup my claim that 32-bit Apps, and many third-party Apps are not likely to be updated! However, you keep worrying about my typing or line-breaks. Does that diminish the demeaning, and Holier-than-thou attitudes toward those that don't agree with you? Especially when I referenced articles and gave quotes from Experts that didn't agree with you, and others? I'm not the only Apple Customer that didn't agree with loss of Optical Drives, the elimination of the Headphone jack, the loss of Mag-Safe , the loss of Ethernet, the lack of updates and mis-design of the Mac Pro, the lack of updates of the Mac Mini, or the loss of USB-A! That's a Fact! I
... Evidently, you still don't care if other computer-makers have DVD/CD drives in their offerings, even if they out-sell Apple in the market. ... I spoke about the NEAR FUTURE, and referenced, and quoted at least two articles by Long-Time Apple and Computer-Writers( and a Website), to backup my claim that 32-bit Apps, and many third-party Apps are not likely to be updated!
Is there a non-Apple laptop with a DVD burner that outsells the MBP?
I think our point is that whether Apple updates the DVD player has little to do with whether you will still be able to read or write optical media in future macOSs.
Also, while Mac fanboys get over-zealous about supporting Apple's every move, there is a big difference between complaining about Apple's removal of things that are still heavily in use (USB-A, 3.5mm jack) and their removal of things like a DVD writer, which the majority no longer regularly use. And, my warnings were in the context of cautioning you that rightable optical media isn't a great solution for longer-term storage/archival.... not that you are a dinosaur for using spinning media.
The writer of the Article said, that there is a good chance that burning-software won't work on Mac OS soon, due to 32-bit Apps not being supported in the next release, slated for Autumn 2018. The only reason that I mentioned the article , is because you Guys were making fun of people who still Burn/Listen, and saying how easy it will be to Burn them , for the few Nuts that still want to. I knew better, because I had recently read the article, not only on Computerworld, but Macworld U.K. You Guys seem to know better than he does or other websites/publications. I already gave examples of four Brands that out-sell the Apple Laptops: HP,Lenovo,Dell Acer,ASUS, then Apple. The Dell Inspiron-15" model has a DVD/CD Burner,and it is a better seller than the Mac Book Pro. Of course, all Laptops don't have DVD/CD Burners anymore, but a number of brands have DVD/CD burners,and nearly all of them have 17" models available. The Asus 15" model has a DVD/CD burner, that is also Blu-Ray. They have multiple 17" models,for Gamers and Business-types. Nobody offers Optical Drives on ALL of their models,but they do have models with optical drives available. I have Stock in Apple.Sony, Microsoft, and IBM, and I can get a discount from any of them. I prefer Apple products and Services. However, sometimes Apple forgets or dis-regards their Customers. They also forget that Form should follow function! Remember when they told us that nobody wanted a Big-Screen Smartphone? LOL! As soon as they offered it on the iPhone 6 and 6-Plus, Sales skyrocketed! They are not always right, and they were extremely profitable already! The competitive companies also have Ethernet, USB-A, Mini-Display Port, Card-reader, Mic out, and Bluetooth. No matter how many times I say it, or give you Guys names of Manufacturers, you still try to tell me nobody offers burners, or that they aren't better sellers or competitors to the Mac Book pro line! I'll let you look it up for yourselves, because less than one minute of research would have confirmed it, especially after I named the maker that you all know out-sell the Macs! You Guys will do anything to keep from admitting when you're wrong. Customers were forced away from DVD's and CD's, because the Music companies and Movie Studios don't want us to be able to duplicate or make copies of Discs. They would rather make us pay for subscriptions in order to have access to their entire libraries. How in the Hell can Customer demand remain, if they de-emphasize Discs, take the burners off the models sold, and reduce the manufacturing/recording of Movies and Music? They used to have laser Discs, which I used to record on Super Beta and VHS-Hi-Fi, it was so clean, that most people thought it was a DVD playing. They killed the format, and replaced it with DVD's, citing space-concerns/packaging/duplicate formats... This was very similar to HDCP and other schemes designed to stop copying! Greedy-Ass Hollywood, and the Music Industry wins again! This why it's so difficult for Apple to get a deal with the Music and Movie Studios, they are deathly afraid that Apple is gonna take over their business. Now, the Artists are starving, because Streaming doesn't pay them well, even after Millions of Plays! Ask an Singer or Musician!
DuhSesame said: From a personal perspective, Windows isn't always necessary. I've been using Unix-like systems in most of my stuffs, and as long as you understand how, it will work perfectly. That said, I still have to face Windows when it's used in public.
I've used Unix some, but it has been a few years (well, more like a decade) since I did much with it either professionally (servers) or personally (MythTV).
Has it come far in terms of desktop-like-GUI use? It was quite rough back then... kind of a 'Windows-lite' like shell over the command line with some fancy installers. Also, what about apps? I don't think several of the apps I use would have Linux versions... and the stuff like Gimp is horribly clunky.
I'm sure I could make it work... but would I be happier than just using Windows besides having better underpinnings? Sorry, don't mean to sound harsh, but that has been my experience with it so far... but again, at least a decade old.
Well that’s the kind of thing for xfce. I’m running Linux Lite on my old laptop and is virtually no lag. I customized the xfce to be more like a Mac rather than Windows (which having a global menu, put window buttons on the left, having the main menu on the top-left), but it’s complet up to what the user want it to be.
You still have to type a lot shell commands when necessary though, but as long you’re getting used to it, it’s pretty efficient. Wine (the program that run Windows applications) works better than my Mac.
DuhSesame said: Well that’s the kind of thing for xfce. I’m running Linux Lite on my old laptop and is virtually no lag. I customized the xfce to be more like a Mac rather than Windows (which having a global menu, put window buttons on the left, having the main menu on the top-left), but it’s complet up to what the user want it to be.
You still have to type a lot shell commands when necessary though, but as long you’re getting used to it, it’s pretty efficient. Wine (the program that run Windows applications) works better than my Mac.
Yeah, though the UIs (Mac & Windows) are a lot deeper than a customizable shell that makes them look similar, or have things in a similar place. I'd have to try it out, but it has always been a bit to raw rather quickly for me, even at the OS level before getting into the apps. But, yes, if you get good with shell commands, it's certainly powerful.
re: Wine... do you mean it runs Windows apps better than using something like BootCamp or Parallels on Mac? In other words, you run Linux, but then mostly use Windows apps?
DuhSesame said: Well that’s the kind of thing for xfce. I’m running Linux Lite on my old laptop and is virtually no lag. I customized the xfce to be more like a Mac rather than Windows (which having a global menu, put window buttons on the left, having the main menu on the top-left), but it’s complet up to what the user want it to be.
You still have to type a lot shell commands when necessary though, but as long you’re getting used to it, it’s pretty efficient. Wine (the program that run Windows applications) works better than my Mac.
Yeah, though the UIs (Mac & Windows) are a lot deeper than a customizable shell that makes them look similar, or have things in a similar place. I'd have to try it out, but it has always been a bit to raw rather quickly for me, even at the OS level before getting into the apps. But, yes, if you get good with shell commands, it's certainly powerful.
re: Wine... do you mean it runs Windows apps better than using something like BootCamp or Parallels on Mac? In other words, you run Linux, but then mostly use Windows apps?
You know the wine project? Kind like a virtual machine but really isn’t. Basically it provides a Windows-like environment for Unix-like systems which makes running Windows apps possible. For now it runs better on my Linux Lite machine than my MacBook because numerous reasons.
DuhSesame said: Well that’s the kind of thing for xfce. I’m running Linux Lite on my old laptop and is virtually no lag. I customized the xfce to be more like a Mac rather than Windows (which having a global menu, put window buttons on the left, having the main menu on the top-left), but it’s complet up to what the user want it to be.
You still have to type a lot shell commands when necessary though, but as long you’re getting used to it, it’s pretty efficient. Wine (the program that run Windows applications) works better than my Mac.
Yeah, though the UIs (Mac & Windows) are a lot deeper than a customizable shell that makes them look similar, or have things in a similar place. I'd have to try it out, but it has always been a bit to raw rather quickly for me, even at the OS level before getting into the apps. But, yes, if you get good with shell commands, it's certainly powerful.
re: Wine... do you mean it runs Windows apps better than using something like BootCamp or Parallels on Mac? In other words, you run Linux, but then mostly use Windows apps?
I found myself using Windows apps for sometimes, mostly games, and other that I can’t find a good alternative.
Only for games. There’s nothing else Windows can do that OS X can’t. And honestly, WINE in *NIX variants is getting so good that some gamers are dropping their Windows installs completely.
Do any of you Guys use Virtualization or Boot into Windows, anymore? Do you still use Microsoft Office, or office 365?
I used to use BootCamp when I had my iMac, mostly for gaming. I just use my PS4 now and kind of gave up on PC gaming (don't have enough time anyway).
I use Parallels (so virtualization) to run Windows for testing.
I have Microsoft Office (subscription) installed for those times when I need it for compatibility, but I try to avoid using it. I don't understand how so much of the world can stand using it aside from being forced to do so by their employer.
Do you think that by Apple offering Mac OS free,and the popularity of Google Docs and other software, that they are killing Windows and Microsoft Office?
Do you think that by Apple offering Mac OS free,and the popularity of Google Docs and other software, that they are killing Windows and Microsoft Office?
It depends on the audience we're talking about. For corporate business, not really. While they might be using Google Docs a bit, I think it's pretty much Microsoft OS, Office suite, and infrastructure (don't forget a lot of their infrastructure is built on stuff like .Net or other Microsoft dependent technologies and apps).
For small business, startups, home use, and such, absolutely, though not as much free macOS. People are either in the Apple (Mac) eco-system or not, and then either run macOS or Windows. I don't think the cost of the OS has much bearing on that. But, I run into people using Google Docs, calendar, and stuff all the time outside corporate business.
Of course, I'm sure there are many like me as well, who use Google Docs when I need to, have Microsoft Office installed and use it when I need to, and then use Pages or whatever some as it is the app that is installed on my machine from Apple and sucks slightly less than the other two. Back when I seriously use word-processors, I didn't use any of the above. Excel is better than Numbers in some ways, but again, I just don't use either much. I'm more of a text-document, email, and web-document person these days.
Only for games. There’s nothing else Windows can do that OS X can’t. And honestly, WINE in *NIX variants is getting so good that some gamers are dropping their Windows installs completely.
Yeah, although in my case that some games the screen glitches like crazy, because the macOS simply not allowed Wine to use its own driver. For that I have to use an early version of wine.
I’m wondering if the 17-inch is necessary again. Two reasons that might caused them not to do a Retina one are: with the options to have a workspace of 1920x1200 (more space), the 15-inch is on par with the previous 17-inch, and never really had any differences in specs (for the top-configuration). But since everything is shrinking today, a 17-inch might be able to bringing more battery life and better cooling, as well an even larger resolution. The portability may also be a concern since it will having a hard time to fit in a backpack, but some of us will be okay to pay for that, I assume?
DuhSesame said: Yeah, although in my case that some games the screen glitches like crazy, because the macOS simply not allowed Wine to use its own driver. For that I have to use an early version of wine.
How good is WINE at just running any particular Windows app, say something like the Adobe Suite or some audio/video editor, or CAD/3D app, etc.? Or, is it mostly for gaming?
I’m wondering if the 17-inch is necessary again. Two reasons that might caused them not to do a Retina one are: with the options to have a workspace of 1920x1200 (more space), the 15-inch is on par with the previous 17-inch...
It's about more than resolution though, as to put more stuff on the smaller screen means everything is smaller (vs. higher in dpi, i.e.: Retina). I think most people who'd buy a 17" would be wanting workspace while mobile. I think there is a market there for them, but I don't think it is what it once was.
DuhSesame said: Yeah, although in my case that some games the screen glitches like crazy, because the macOS simply not allowed Wine to use its own driver. For that I have to use an early version of wine.
How good is WINE at just running any particular Windows app, say something like the Adobe Suite or some audio/video editor, or CAD/3D app, etc.? Or, is it mostly for gaming?
I’m wondering if the 17-inch is necessary again. Two reasons that might caused them not to do a Retina one are: with the options to have a workspace of 1920x1200 (more space), the 15-inch is on par with the previous 17-inch...
It's about more than resolution though, as to put more stuff on the smaller screen means everything is smaller (vs. higher in dpi, i.e.: Retina). I think most people who'd buy a 17" would be wanting workspace while mobile. I think there is a market there for them, but I don't think it is what it once was.
For wine you can checkout wineHQ, which they have testing results for the most popular applications. I think for the most part, wine will run Adobe fine.
I’m not sure how many people would want a 17-inch today, sure there are many said it did, but not sure what’s the reality.
I still use a 17" Mac Book Pro, and treasure it and its Workspace. I don't object to the 5.5 lbs. , I love all of the Ports, and I wish that it would be resurrected, for those that want and need it! I don't have any problem getting it into my Backpack, or finding one. There are many 17" models available on the Windows-side. There have a wide variety of ports, including HDMI,Burners, card-readers, and cost about $1,200-$1,500. There are a few models that are over $2,000, but not many. They are usually $500-$700 less than the Mac counterparts
Fast asleep, the diatribe that you attributed to me, was almost verbatim from the article that I referenced. You seem to believe that those opinions originated with me. I just agreed with its premises. I used multiple articles to refute the belief that nobody uses or burns Discs anymore! Evidently, you still don't care if other computer-makers have DVD/CD drives in their offerings, even if they out-sell Apple in the market. Do you look at USB-A, Ethernet, and Memory-Card readers as weighing you down,and burdening you, since Apple took them off some of their products? Is a one-inch laptop too thick for YOU, since Apple made their Laptops Super-thin, and took most of the Ports away?
For your information, they did infer that I was saying that I couldn't pay my physical media any longer. They even assumed that I didn't know, or have knowledge of VLC, external burners,or third-party burning software! Maybe you need to backtrack in the thread, and actually read the assumptive remarks that were made toward me. You, and others, did the same thing toward those that CHOOSE to still burn/listen to Discs, as if it's some bothersome, dreadful habit! LooOL! Who are you, to tell someone else that "lugging CD's around in a Mobile situation" is a burden? I don't ask you to carry my MacBook Pro. It weighs 5.5 lbs. How heavy is an internal CD/DVD drive? It never was a burden, before. Again, I never said that I have ANY PROBLEM BURNING DISCS! I spoke about the NEAR FUTURE, and referenced, and quoted at least two articles by Long-Time Apple and Computer-Writers( and a Website), to backup my claim that 32-bit Apps, and many third-party Apps are not likely to be updated! However, you keep worrying about my typing or line-breaks. Does that diminish the demeaning, and Holier-than-thou attitudes toward those that don't agree with you? Especially when I referenced articles and gave quotes from Experts that didn't agree with you, and others? I'm not the only Apple Customer that didn't agree with loss of Optical Drives, the elimination of the Headphone jack, the loss of Mag-Safe , the loss of Ethernet, the lack of updates and mis-design of the Mac Pro, the lack of updates of the Mac Mini, or the loss of USB-A! That's a Fact! I
All I was saying is that if you’re gonna lug around a pile of discs, you can bring a lightweight external optical drive with them. On the desktop this is a non-issue. Very few people want an optical drive, but there are plenty of options for those that do, and I really don’t care if people have that need. The 32bit app thing is not preventing you from using optical drives now or in the near future. So not really sure what you’re complaining about, still.
I have a Disc player in the Car, and on my Mac Book Pro,not to mention my iMac,so why would I need a lightweight external drive? The only reason that I would be able to burn discs, for certain, in the future, is because I don’t plan to upgrade to the buggy Sierra and High Sierra OS’s. Those that do upgrade, have new Macs, or have already upgraded, may not be able to burn discs in the future, according to some Experts. Your description of using discs as ,” lugging a pile of discs around”, Is one I don’t share. They aren’t any more of a problem for me, as they ever were. They are thin, lightweight, the drives are already built-in, and weigh less than a newer Mac plus an external drive/cables/power cord. Discs weigh nearly nothing to me, and my 5.5 lb. , 17” MBP isn’t either. That’s ok if you consider it an unnecessary burden, but I don’t know why you consider it to be for others. If I was using High Sierra, and the Experts say they doubt support in the upcoming Mac OS update, why wouldn’t it affect me in the near future? Why do you mention being able to burn disc now, again, when I mentioned at least three times that I’m not having issues burning or playing them NOW? Saying that “ very few people want optical drives”, is still very subjective, and biased toward YOUR USES AND NEEDS! Everyone else may not share your feelings. You seem to have conveniently ignored other companies still including burners, and the opinions of music executives that Service multinational companies. I ask again, are you more of a CD marketing expert, than the executive that was quoted in the article? Is the market here, in Japan, in France, and Germany unimportant and/ or insignificant? Do these other computer makers have an idiotic and wasteful business-model? I know many DJ’s that use CD’s for parties, sell them , and have CD-Turntables that allow them to mix and scratch the same way they did with LP’s! They have Laptops for MP3’s and streaming , but they aren’t always the only source. Nearly every concert I attend, the artists are selling CD’s! Do you remember me mentioning that? You seem to hear or read only what you want or agree with. Again, I stream, play discs,stream from my IPhone, and listen to FM/Am , everyday,and you can’t project your uses/needs on everyone else! It’s room for all of us. My 2013 vehicle has AM/FM , XM Radio, Cd drive,and memory stick capability! Don’t assume it’s a burden for ME!
I burn discs, so that the Stupid,Corporate-controlled, Program Directors can’t force me to listen to the songs that they want us to hear. Streaming services play a lot of songs that I don’t want to hear, or hear again, so I can burn discs with only my favorites, or custom playlists, or ones that Top DJ’s have made! Again, it’s freedom of choice, and being able to hear what I want, AT ANY AND ALL TIMES! I buy a lot of Music, in case you can’t tell! Streaming services play a lot of B. S., and some have commercials! I don’t have to listen to any song that I don’t want to hear, and in seconds, I can be listening to what I like, as many times as I like! Apple, Pandora, Spotify, or any other service can’t give me that. The Movement Festival was here in Detroit a week or so ago, and you would’ve been shocked at how many CD’s were sold! LOL! People from all over the World were here! We aren’t Cavemen and Cavewomen, you may be out of the Loop on Music!
Comments
agreed with its premises. I used multiple articles to refute the belief that nobody uses or burns Discs anymore! Evidently, you still don't care if other computer-makers have DVD/CD drives in their offerings, even if they out-sell Apple in the market. Do you look at USB-A, Ethernet, and Memory-Card readers as weighing you down,and burdening you, since Apple took them off some of their products? Is a one-inch laptop too thick for YOU, since Apple made their Laptops Super-thin, and took most of the Ports away?
For your information, they did infer that I was saying that I couldn't pay my physical media any longer. They even assumed that I didn't know, or have knowledge of VLC, external burners,or third-party burning software! Maybe you need to backtrack in the thread, and actually read the assumptive remarks that were made toward me. You, and others, did the same thing toward those that CHOOSE to still burn/listen to Discs, as if it's some bothersome, dreadful habit! LOL! Who are you, to tell someone else that "lugging CD's around in a Mobile situation" is a burden? I don't ask you to carry my MacBook Pro. It weighs 5.5 lbs. How heavy is an internal CD/DVD drive? It never was a burden, before. Again, I never said that I have ANY PROBLEM BURNING DISCS! I spoke about the NEAR FUTURE, and referenced, and quoted at least two articles by Long-Time Apple and Computer-Writers( and a Website), to backup my claim that 32-bit Apps, and many third-party Apps are not likely to be updated! However, you keep worrying about my typing or line-breaks. Does that diminish the demeaning, and Holier-than-thou attitudes toward those that don't agree with you? Especially when I referenced articles and gave quotes from Experts that didn't agree with you, and others? I'm not the only Apple Customer that didn't agree with loss of Optical Drives, the elimination of the Headphone jack, the loss of Mag-Safe , the loss of Ethernet, the lack of updates and mis-design of the Mac Pro, the lack of updates of the Mac Mini, or the loss of USB-A! That's a Fact! I
I think our point is that whether Apple updates the DVD player has little to do with whether you will still be able to read or write optical media in future macOSs.
Also, while Mac fanboys get over-zealous about supporting Apple's every move, there is a big difference between complaining about Apple's removal of things that are still heavily in use (USB-A, 3.5mm jack) and their removal of things like a DVD writer, which the majority no longer regularly use. And, my warnings were in the context of cautioning you that rightable optical media isn't a great solution for longer-term storage/archival.... not that you are a dinosaur for using spinning media.
You still have to type a lot shell commands when necessary though, but as long you’re getting used to it, it’s pretty efficient. Wine (the program that run Windows applications) works better than my Mac.
re: Wine... do you mean it runs Windows apps better than using something like BootCamp or Parallels on Mac?
In other words, you run Linux, but then mostly use Windows apps?
I use Parallels (so virtualization) to run Windows for testing.
I have Microsoft Office (subscription) installed for those times when I need it for compatibility, but I try to avoid using it. I don't understand how so much of the world can stand using it aside from being forced to do so by their employer.
For small business, startups, home use, and such, absolutely, though not as much free macOS. People are either in the Apple (Mac) eco-system or not, and then either run macOS or Windows. I don't think the cost of the OS has much bearing on that. But, I run into people using Google Docs, calendar, and stuff all the time outside corporate business.
Of course, I'm sure there are many like me as well, who use Google Docs when I need to, have Microsoft Office installed and use it when I need to, and then use Pages or whatever some as it is the app that is installed on my machine from Apple and sucks slightly less than the other two. Back when I seriously use word-processors, I didn't use any of the above. Excel is better than Numbers in some ways, but again, I just don't use either much. I'm more of a text-document, email, and web-document person these days.
It's about more than resolution though, as to put more stuff on the smaller screen means everything is smaller (vs. higher in dpi, i.e.: Retina). I think most people who'd buy a 17" would be wanting workspace while mobile. I think there is a market there for them, but I don't think it is what it once was.
I’m not sure how many people would want a 17-inch today, sure there are many said it did, but not sure what’s the reality.