Contrarian indicator shows a success: trolls are out in force, underwear in knots.
Well, let me put it this way.... In the past, I've been accused of being a fanboy many times. I've been around the platform for over 30 years now. I used to plan my schedule around not missing a keynote, and was excited for them (and often impressed).
Now, I'm trying to decide if I should stick it out for a while longer and buy an old Mac... or just thrown in the towel.
Just throw in the towel...you will never be satisfied with Apple...cut your losses now and move on to something else...
This was a fairly consumer focussed event and there’s a lot in this OS for consumers in fact. The much improved DND, screen time, face groups, increased performance, and the new apps. Then there is the memoji. Not for me but I can see the appeal. For a yearly update, that’s fine
Well, for me, hardware... specifically Macs or some news about Macs at least. But, the excuses given (here) for why that wouldn't happen were that it's a developers conference, or (from Apple) that they were working on speed/stability. So, one might conclude that it should be stuff developers might be interested in (which might eventually filter down to my 'make my life better/productivity' criteria. Or, since they had nothing to say about software, that I'd hear something about hardware.
Instead, I heard nothing about hardware, and irrelevant, silly, or stuff we already knew about software.
I am continually amazed how supposed vets can be so full of shit and completely clueless. It IS a developers’ conference so that’s not an “excuse”. It’s not a hardware conference. It’s purpose is not to keep you informed on the Mac roadmap. Get that thru your skull.
There was 2.5 hours of stuff about software, and I guarantee you or we didn’t know it all already. You’re making things up.
Apple is clearly out of ideas! It’s been evolutionary rather than revolutionary for quite some time and now it is getting downright boring. Even developers know that we need the public excited about NEW REVOLUTIONARY hardware for our software to gain limelight. Honestly how does this read in the journal etc?..... “Apple makes it a little cooler to own old stuff you already upgraded from so now your 2nd stepchild can chug the coolaid along with you. Bottom line is they were once about money AND creativity AND end user experience, now it’s CLEARLY money thrown in with some health apps (in dark mode sometimes). Why I am upset? I wait every year for one or two releases that I can endorse and proudly say “See? Apple is still on top!” Now it’s clear they are leveling off, consumers will begin to turn and someone else will begin to innovate. I am not angry at Apple or the fact that they didn’t announce anything really worthwhile today, I pity them. Apple isn’t cool anymore, Apple isn’t social currency any more, Apple is about on par with everyone else and no longer stands out.
The content seemed a bit thin to me, but then I'm not a developer. I'm guessing you're not a developer either.
applemagic said: So, you don't count Siri shortcuts as something that will increase your productivity? I think it's going to be bigger than it sounded in yesterday's keynote. To me it looked a lot like big portions of the Workflow app getting integrated.
Possibly, I just don't use Siri much at this point because it isn't that helpful. I guess if I can create my own routines with my own keywords, at least I might be able to get Siri to do a few useful things. (note: Part of my comments and disappointment are in the context of the Mac, as well as what they didn't show.)
fastasleep said: There two and a quarter hours of software features covered and you really think it was all "candy"? Even all of the "silly" stuff are features that many, many users will enjoy using even if you won't, but to suggest they were all silly or frivolous is ridiculous. There were a ton of major advancements in features, security, privacy, automation, granular controls, intelligent notifications, Siri integration with 3rd party apps, Dark Mode (finally), probably the first time screen shot/video capture tools on the Mac has ever gotten any love since they arrived, tons of Finder improvements. They literally killed Facebook's cross-site user tracking and browser fingerprinting in one shot. That's huge. I literally saw at least a dozen things in the presentation that I was super excited for that will increase productivity and many more in the fine print later.
As far as hardware goes, the rumor via Bloomberg et al is that new hardware simply isn't ready yet. That's it. It's not like they held a hardware-specific event and showed up empty-handed. They'll announce new stuff when it's ready and no amount of complaining, despite your best efforts, is going to change that. You'd be complaining about whatever they announced today had they done so anyway.
Aside from a few things, most of it was just visual re-doing (once again), or feature additions to stuff I'm not using anyway (as I've already found 3rd party replacements). I'll agree that the automation stuff might help cover some of Siri's inadequacies, so that is welcome.
re: security/FB - I suppose that might help a bit, but it's far from killing FBs tracking abilities.
re: hardware - You're probably right, but that doesn't make it any better. That Apple wasn't able (or didn't want to) fix their Mac line problem for this event is telling and troubling. There really isn't any good excuse for it, so take your pick among other options.
C'mon, where are all those people that were foaming at the mouth for Dolby Atmos support? Their dream/demand has come true.
I think it was all good this time around. Apple gave a little love to just about everything including tvOS. Some years it seems like it gets ignored. WWDC 2019 will be big because developers will be able to port their iOS apps to macOS. Every few years you need an oS update for macOS and iOS like this.
After spending $thousands on 'surround' sound, I gave up and went back to stereo... so Dolby Atmos has about as much appeal to me as 3D TV.
But, I'm not sure the ability to bring iOS apps to the Mac is really a good thing or not. We'll see. I'm concerned it will just further dilute good UI principals on the Mac. Some of the Mac software developers still remember some good UI principals, but iOS apps are a nightmare. Do we want those people developing for the Mac? I'm trying to think of an iOS app I'd want on the Mac, and I'm coming up blank.
Maybe it will eventually change, but for now, iOS is a compromise for portability kind of trade-off for the most part, with a few touch-screen verticals in terms of application, IMO. I've never been sitting in front of my Mac saying, "Wow, I wish I could do this workflow I'm doing here on my iPad/iPhone." I might do so because I'm on the beach or a cramped airline seat, but I'd not want that iOS app, generally, on the Mac.
GG1 said: +1. I really appreciate this move by Apple. It will promote customer loyalty in a way that Android can never touch. Of course, Wall Street will say this will put a dent in the supposed Super Cycle.
Yeah, I'm not sure it will really matter all that much, in terms of impact on Apple's future sales. But, I'm sure Wall Street (once they actually read some articles predicting it will negatively impact sales) will react accordingly. That would be a good time to buy if you're in Apple for the shorter term, IMO.
brucemc said: Just throw in the towel...you will never be satisfied with Apple...cut your losses now and move on to something else...
So, you're pretty confident they won't turn things around? Or, you didn't actually read what I said?
StrangeDays said: I am continually amazed how supposed vets can be so full of shit and completely clueless. It IS a developers’ conference so that’s not an “excuse”. It’s not a hardware conference. It’s purpose is not to keep you informed on the Mac roadmap. Get that thru your skull.
Have you not seen the WWDC history of hardware list I've posted now a few times in these threads? Having hardware is the norm, not the exception. Where did you get this idea it's a software event? It's a developers conference. Of course there is a focus on software, but developers care about hardware too. And, what do Mimojis have to do with developers? I think your premise is flawed, there. (BTW, developers use Macs.)
StrangeDays said: I am continually amazed how supposed vets can be so full of shit and completely clueless. It IS a developers’ conference so that’s not an “excuse”. It’s not a hardware conference. It’s purpose is not to keep you informed on the Mac roadmap. Get that thru your skull.
Have you not seen the WWDC history of hardware list I've posted now a few times in these threads? Having hardware is the norm, not the exception. Where did you get this idea it's a software event? It's a developers conference. Of course there is a focus on software, but developers care about hardware too. And, what do Mimojis have to do with developers? I think your premise is flawed, there. (BTW, developers use Macs.)
1) As previously stated, they did announce new HW.
2) Even as you showed—but failed to acknowledge—HW at WWDC is not guaranteed so your implications of it being absolute and Apple dropping the ball, and your subsequent disappointment with the event are unfounded.
Soli said: 1) As previously stated, they did announce new HW.
2) Even as you showed—but failed to acknowledge—HW at WWDC is not guaranteed so your implications of it being absolute and Apple dropping the ball, and your subsequent disappointment with the event are unfounded.
re: 1 - Do you know something I don't? Or, are you seriously referring to a watch band?
re: 2 - Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was an absolute, just the norm. And, given that Apple's biggest area of being behind, is in hardware for DEVELOPERS, you'd think it would be a good opportunity to fix that, or at least announce something.
Soli said: 1) As previously stated, they did announce new HW.
2) Even as you showed—but failed to acknowledge—HW at WWDC is not guaranteed so your implications of it being absolute and Apple dropping the ball, and your subsequent disappointment with the event are unfounded.
re: 1 - Do you know something I don't? Or, are you seriously referring to a watch band?
re: 2 - Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was an absolute, just the norm. And, given that Apple's biggest area of being behind, is in hardware for DEVELOPERS, you'd think it would be a good opportunity to fix that, or at least announce something.
You said "the norm" but then your bitching implied that it should absolutely happen. A more reasonable reply would've been something like, "I was hoping they would at least detail the next Mac Pro they hinted at last year since announcing some new major HW is the norm, but it's certainly not a guarantee so I guess we'll have to wait until August or September for a proper HW-focused event."
Me, I would've loved for the next Mac Pro to be detailed, I've also seen the writing on the wall for an ARM-based Mac (running macOS, not iOS) for many years so I wished that would've come to fruition now, but none of is me bitching that Apple didn't cater my personal desires.
Soli said: You said "the norm" but then your bitching implied that it should absolutely happen. A more reasonable reply would've been something like, "I was hoping they would at least detail the next Mac Pro they hinted at last year since announcing some new major HW is the norm, but it's certainly not a guarantee so I guess we'll have to wait until August or September for a proper HW-focused event."
Me, I would've loved for the next Mac Pro to be detailed, I've also seen the writing on the wall for an ARM-based Mac (running macOS, not iOS) for many years so I wished that would've come to fruition now, but none of is me bitching that Apple didn't cater my personal desires.
Yes, it should have absolutely happened given the context... hence the bitching. Also, I'm hardly the only one. This isn't just expecting Apple cater to me.
Soli said: You said "the norm" but then your bitching implied that it should absolutely happen. A more reasonable reply would've been something like, "I was hoping they would at least detail the next Mac Pro they hinted at last year since announcing some new major HW is the norm, but it's certainly not a guarantee so I guess we'll have to wait until August or September for a proper HW-focused event."
Me, I would've loved for the next Mac Pro to be detailed, I've also seen the writing on the wall for an ARM-based Mac (running macOS, not iOS) for many years so I wished that would've come to fruition now, but none of is me bitching that Apple didn't cater my personal desires.
Yes, it should have absolutely happened given the context... hence the bitching.
From "I never said it was an absolute" to "Yes, it should have absolutely happened" in a single post. Well done¡
Soli said: From "I never said it was an absolute" to "Yes, it should have absolutely happened" in a single post. Well done¡
It wasn't an absolute that it would happen...no guarantee. It should have absolutely happened given the context. (I type my messages assuming some level of reading comprehension and understanding of context.)
(I type my messages assuming some level of reading comprehension and understanding of context.)
Oh, I comprehended what you meant just fine. You even backed that up by stating what Apple should've done because you wanted it, instead of saying it was nearly something you wished they had done or expected they would do. Your problem is you think Apple works for you and that you know better everyone else making decisions at the company.
Or in my case, the new Photos app will attempt to predict what the user is interested in and more often than not get it wrong. It will also attempt to predict how the user wants to tag, organize, and search for photos, and more often than not get it wrong.
You got that right. I hate how Photos organizes my photos. Detest it enough that I don't even use it to organize. I use MyPics and grab any shots from Photos as soon as possible before deleting them from the latter. I wouldn't want my Mac deciding how I want my files organized and I don't want Photos doing the same with my pictures.
So make your own albums. Photos has that feature already..,,
Making your own albums sucks in Photos. It functions as a smart folder, which means the photo in your album is also listed in the root. Most of the time people don’t want that. And it makes organizing very hard. I don’t know which photos I haven’t organized yet because they don’t disappear from an ‘unorganized folder’.
Create an smart album, for photos "Not in an album". The work from it to get all your photos in a proper album!
I really looking forward to the “doubling down” performance, because it does not only affect “older” devices of the present, but also “to-be-older” devices in the future, like iPhone X which will be an older iPhone by next year. It’s a change of product strategy. It also proves that maintaining performance is faithfully needed for all OS upgrades against “planned obsolescence”. What’s needed to ascertain include “Up to 0% app switching, does it mean?”, and what is the base OS version is used to compare to “up to 70% faster on camera”? I wish it’s the original iOS versions of each device. E.g. 70% faster on camera for iPhone 6 Plus with iOS 8. But frankly, I don’t see it happening. What I see, is similar to the discount tag after a huge markup of a product in the supermarket - You ultimately paying more. For iPhone 6 Plus, I am worrying that after 500% slower (my personal feeling only) camera from iOS8 (1s) to iOS11 (5s), then a 70% faster (from iOS11) is still 50% slower (1.5s). Will see very soon.
fastasleep said: There two and a quarter hours of software features covered and you really think it was all "candy"? Even all of the "silly" stuff are features that many, many users will enjoy using even if you won't, but to suggest they were all silly or frivolous is ridiculous. There were a ton of major advancements in features, security, privacy, automation, granular controls, intelligent notifications, Siri integration with 3rd party apps, Dark Mode (finally), probably the first time screen shot/video capture tools on the Mac has ever gotten any love since they arrived, tons of Finder improvements. They literally killed Facebook's cross-site user tracking and browser fingerprinting in one shot. That's huge. I literally saw at least a dozen things in the presentation that I was super excited for that will increase productivity and many more in the fine print later.
As far as hardware goes, the rumor via Bloomberg et al is that new hardware simply isn't ready yet. That's it. It's not like they held a hardware-specific event and showed up empty-handed. They'll announce new stuff when it's ready and no amount of complaining, despite your best efforts, is going to change that. You'd be complaining about whatever they announced today had they done so anyway.
Aside from a few things, most of it was just visual re-doing (once again), or feature additions to stuff I'm not using anyway (as I've already found 3rd party replacements). I'll agree that the automation stuff might help cover some of Siri's inadequacies, so that is welcome.
You’re clearly either not paying attention to any of the details of what was announced or reported on after or being willfully obtuse. There’s no way you can say with any sense of honesty that it was mostly a “visual re-doing”, you’re being intellectually dishonest.
re: security/FB - I suppose that might help a bit, but it's far from killing FBs tracking abilities.
Oh? Tell us how it doesn’t work the way they say it does.
re: hardware - You're probably right, but that doesn't make it any better. That Apple wasn't able (or didn't want to) fix their Mac line problem for this event is telling and troubling. There really isn't any good excuse for it, so take your pick among other options.
No, it’s not. It’s troubling to you because you have such a myopic view on what and when Apple should do with their hardware line with literally no knowledge of what’s happening internally that you can’t accept what is in actuality a simple explanation: they’re actively working on several new hardware updates across the board, they’re not ready yet, and they had more than enough in major software updates to fill the nearly 2.5 hour keynote already, and that these things will come out on their own timeline, not yours, while you continue to stomp your feet.
It’s literally a demonstration of technology that the developers now have available to them to create their own apps. The keynote is literally Apple showing off what they’ve been working on, either the foundations of the tech or applications thereof. That you don’t seem to get this explains a lot of your frustration.
Soli said: Oh, I comprehended what you meant just fine. You even backed that up by stating what Apple should've done because you wanted it, instead of saying it was nearly something you wished they had done or expected they would do. Your problem is you think Apple works for you and that you know better everyone else making decisions at the company.
Well, as a matter of fact, yes I do. Because when they are screwing up this badly, it doesn't take a genius. So, according to you, it's just fine they haven't updated several machines in years, and are a generation or two behind in CPUs (which give advantages) on others? If there were some good excuse or reason, then I'd be more understanding. Can you think of one?
fastasleep said: You’re clearly either not paying attention to any of the details of what was announced or reported on after or being willfully obtuse. There’s no way you can say with any sense of honesty that it was mostly a “visual re-doing”, you’re being intellectually dishonest.
Maybe we saw a different keynote? Can you name a few things?
cgWerks said: re: security/FB - I suppose that might help a bit, but it's far from killing FBs tracking abilities.
Oh? Tell us how it doesn’t work the way they say it does.
They have so much aggregated data from different sources, they don't need browser fingerprinting or some metadata to track you anymore. It's helpful, but isn't going to kill off their tracking capabilities. Maybe if you also use a VPN and could turn off all your other apps and services. Or, use a clean VM build over a VPN.
fastasleep said: No, it’s not. It’s troubling to you because you have such a myopic view on what and when Apple should do with their hardware line with literally no knowledge of what’s happening internally that you can’t accept what is in actuality a simple explanation: they’re actively working on several new hardware updates across the board, they’re not ready yet, and they had more than enough in major software updates to fill the nearly 2.5 hour keynote already, and that these things will come out on their own timeline, not yours, while you continue to stomp your feet.
How does it matter what is happening internally? That 4+ year old hardware needs an update is myopic? How many years does it take to update a CPU and ports? They could have easily chopped out about 70% of what they showed to make room for something important.
fastasleep said: It’s literally a demonstration of technology that the developers now have available to them to create their own apps. The keynote is literally Apple showing off what they’ve been working on, either the foundations of the tech or applications thereof. That you don’t seem to get this explains a lot of your frustration.
Yea, you're right... I don't get it. I'm over 5 years old and have actual work to get done (unlike Apple's new target market, I guess). I'm sure they'll make some fun stuff with that the kids will love, but I was hoping for more, too.
brucemc said: Just throw in the towel...you will never be satisfied with Apple...cut your losses now and move on to something else...
So, you're pretty confident they won't turn things around? Or, you didn't actually read what I said?
I have read all (and definitely too much) of what you have written. My comment stands...YOU should throw in the towel...you will never be satisfied...I didn't say anything about others...
brucemc said: I have read all (and definitely too much) of what you have written. My comment stands...YOU should throw in the towel...you will never be satisfied...I didn't say anything about others...
Ok, so I'll put you down as one more vote in the 'Apple is doomed' column. I'm not sure I can afford to abandon the platform right now, so that probably means one more round of Mac hardware, but I'll add your input to my decision.
Comments
There was 2.5 hours of stuff about software, and I guarantee you or we didn’t know it all already. You’re making things up.
Aside from a few things, most of it was just visual re-doing (once again), or feature additions to stuff I'm not using anyway (as I've already found 3rd party replacements). I'll agree that the automation stuff might help cover some of Siri's inadequacies, so that is welcome.
re: security/FB - I suppose that might help a bit, but it's far from killing FBs tracking abilities.
re: hardware - You're probably right, but that doesn't make it any better. That Apple wasn't able (or didn't want to) fix their Mac line problem for this event is telling and troubling. There really isn't any good excuse for it, so take your pick among other options.
After spending $thousands on 'surround' sound, I gave up and went back to stereo... so Dolby Atmos has about as much appeal to me as 3D TV.
But, I'm not sure the ability to bring iOS apps to the Mac is really a good thing or not. We'll see. I'm concerned it will just further dilute good UI principals on the Mac. Some of the Mac software developers still remember some good UI principals, but iOS apps are a nightmare. Do we want those people developing for the Mac? I'm trying to think of an iOS app I'd want on the Mac, and I'm coming up blank.
Maybe it will eventually change, but for now, iOS is a compromise for portability kind of trade-off for the most part, with a few touch-screen verticals in terms of application, IMO. I've never been sitting in front of my Mac saying, "Wow, I wish I could do this workflow I'm doing here on my iPad/iPhone." I might do so because I'm on the beach or a cramped airline seat, but I'd not want that iOS app, generally, on the Mac.
Yeah, I'm not sure it will really matter all that much, in terms of impact on Apple's future sales. But, I'm sure Wall Street (once they actually read some articles predicting it will negatively impact sales) will react accordingly. That would be a good time to buy if you're in Apple for the shorter term, IMO.
Have you not seen the WWDC history of hardware list I've posted now a few times in these threads? Having hardware is the norm, not the exception.
Where did you get this idea it's a software event? It's a developers conference. Of course there is a focus on software, but developers care about hardware too. And, what do Mimojis have to do with developers? I think your premise is flawed, there. (BTW, developers use Macs.)
2) Even as you showed—but failed to acknowledge—HW at WWDC is not guaranteed so your implications of it being absolute and Apple dropping the ball, and your subsequent disappointment with the event are unfounded.
re: 2 - Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was an absolute, just the norm. And, given that Apple's biggest area of being behind, is in hardware for DEVELOPERS, you'd think it would be a good opportunity to fix that, or at least announce something.
Me, I would've loved for the next Mac Pro to be detailed, I've also seen the writing on the wall for an ARM-based Mac (running macOS, not iOS) for many years so I wished that would've come to fruition now, but none of is me bitching that Apple didn't cater my personal desires.
Also, I'm hardly the only one. This isn't just expecting Apple cater to me.
It should have absolutely happened given the context.
(I type my messages assuming some level of reading comprehension and understanding of context.)
What’s needed to ascertain include “Up to 0% app switching, does it mean?”, and what is the base OS version is used to compare to “up to 70% faster on camera”? I wish it’s the original iOS versions of each device. E.g. 70% faster on camera for iPhone 6 Plus with iOS 8. But frankly, I don’t see it happening. What I see, is similar to the discount tag after a huge markup of a product in the supermarket - You ultimately paying more. For iPhone 6 Plus, I am worrying that after 500% slower (my personal feeling only) camera from iOS8 (1s) to iOS11 (5s), then a 70% faster (from iOS11) is still 50% slower (1.5s). Will see very soon.
So, according to you, it's just fine they haven't updated several machines in years, and are a generation or two behind in CPUs (which give advantages) on others?
If there were some good excuse or reason, then I'd be more understanding. Can you think of one?
Maybe we saw a different keynote? Can you name a few things?
They have so much aggregated data from different sources, they don't need browser fingerprinting or some metadata to track you anymore. It's helpful, but isn't going to kill off their tracking capabilities. Maybe if you also use a VPN and could turn off all your other apps and services. Or, use a clean VM build over a VPN.
How does it matter what is happening internally? That 4+ year old hardware needs an update is myopic? How many years does it take to update a CPU and ports?
They could have easily chopped out about 70% of what they showed to make room for something important.
Yea, you're right... I don't get it. I'm over 5 years old and have actual work to get done (unlike Apple's new target market, I guess).
I'm sure they'll make some fun stuff with that the kids will love, but I was hoping for more, too.
I'm not sure I can afford to abandon the platform right now, so that probably means one more round of Mac hardware, but I'll add your input to my decision.