I burn discs, so that the Stupid,Corporate-controlled, Program Directors can’t force me to listen to the songs that they want us to hear. Streaming services play a lot of songs that I don’t want to hear, or hear again, so I can burn discs with only my favorites, or custom playlists, or ones that Top DJ’s have made! Again, it’s freedom of choice, and being able to hear what I want, AT ANY AND ALL TIMES! I buy a lot of Music, in case you can’t tell! Streaming services play a lot of B. S., and some have commercials! I don’t have to listen to any song that I don’t want to hear, and in seconds, I can be listening to what I like, as many times as I like! Apple, Pandora, Spotify, or any other service can’t give me that. The Movement Festival was here in Detroit a week or so ago, and you would’ve been shocked at how many CD’s were sold! LOL! People from all over the World were here! We aren’t Cavemen and Cavewomen, you may be out of the Loop on Music!
I'm a huge music consumer, and a couple years ago got rid of thousands of CDs finally. My iTunes Library and any Apple Music I've added to it since signing up for that absolutely does not play any commercials or any tracks I didn't intend to play.
You keep missing a fundamental point. I seriously don't care if people use CDs or not. I am talking about that, at all. As I and others have pointed out multiple times, there is literally no evidence to support your theory that people will be unable to use optical media with their Macs any time soon.
If you want to continue to dismiss Computerworld and Macworld U. K.’s articles as literally no evidence, that’s ok, for you. I think they have more credibility and knowledge on the subject than you do. If you characterize taking CD’s with you as,”lugging a bunch of CD’s around”, then you obviously care about whether people use CD’s. It’s built into my Macs, they aren’t heavy or burdensome at all, nobody asked you to lug their libraries around, so I don’t know why you would even care about anyone else’s use. I have 20 or 30 discs in the car, so what makes you think I need to lug them around? They stay in the car until I get tired of hearing them, then I switch them out with other discs. I don’t move them back and forth every day or even every week. Music that isn’t commercially-bought, has hurdles in burning, at times. I am an Audiophile, and I firmly feel that Discs sound better than MP3’s and streaming! My separate sound system sounds better than my Surround-Sound setup, the same way my over- the -ear headphones sound better than any in-ear Buds, whether they are Apple’s, Beats, or any other brand. I just don’t know why you care whether someone else wants to use discs or even lug them around! You said you got rid of your discs,” finally”! That reveals that they were a bother to YOU, but why do you care if I, or others, enjoy using them or albums or cassettes? I don’t care how you consume your music/data! DJ’s say they feel more like a DJ when they play discs! To each his own. Vinyl users enjoy cleaning their albums, cleaning the needles, and handling their media.
If you want to continue to dismiss Computerworld and Macworld U. K.’s articles as literally no evidence, that’s ok, for you.
The Johnny Evans article is speculative. 32 bit apps will continue to work in Mojave for years to come. He doesn’t know with any certainty that 3rd party optical apps won’t get updated or released at a later date when 64bit is fully required. You’re freaking out over nothing at this point. Like I said, I do not care if you like discs. You still can! ENJOY and calm down.
The announcements about Mojave at the WWDC, said this is the last release of Mac OS that will run 32-bit Apps without compromise. They said that the next release of Mac OS won't support 32-bit Apps at all. You should have decided ,long ago, to let others enjoy the equipment that Apple made, and they bought for the features and performance that was offered. First, it's wasteful to get rid of functioning, useful ,un-broken equipment- environmentally and financially. Secondly, many people are just as proud of their Music collections on DVD/CD/Albums as Art-Lovers are of their collections, or gardeners are of their Backyards. I don't look at my collection as a burden or a bother, I am very proud of the condition and depth of my Collections. Similarly, I am also proud of older electronics such as Analog-tuning Receivers, Dual-Reverse Cassette-Decks with Dolby HX Pro and Dolby-C, and immaculate, Vintage Cars. Let others enjoy their purchases, as you enjoy yours. They, we, aren't hurting you, or affecting you. That's what I have been saying all along. Macrumors' website just declared, that Mojave is the last Mac OS to support 32-bit Apps. Sebastien Marineau, of Apple software, said that Mojave is the last Mac OS version to support 32-bit Apps at all. Ubergizmo said, that this will significantly speed up the phasing out of 32-bit Apps. Ubergizmo also said that Quick-Time framework, Carbon HLTB, Java 1.6 Apple framework, and Xcode 10, will also not be supported after Mojave. IMore.com said the same thing, that the end of 32-bit apps was near, just as I've been repeating for nearly a week. I'm not freaking out, i'm very calm. I've been trying to quote and refer to websites and publications that write and opine on the Mac and i-products daily, so that you'll stop labeling these statements as theories of mine. They were published by Experts, that thought is was relevant and important enough to inform their listeners, viewers, and readers about. I mentioned in my first post on this subject, that I had the equipment, including an external burner, to record/listen to/play my DVD/CD collection. You Guys were still trying to assure me that I can still burn them, telling me to just buy a lightweight external drive, or telling me about VLC! No matter how many times I tell you that I already know this, and have burners inside my Macs. I'm not telling you to dump your Discs, so why keep telling me to burn mine and enjoy them. I have, since the day I bought them, I've given you numerous examples. The website called Low End Mac, celebrates the use of older Macs and IOS devices, you should check it out, you might be surprised to learn how wasteful it is to dump a working Machine, just because something newer comes out! Save the Planet, and your money.
If you go in to iTunes settings, General tab, and click the "Import Settings" button, you can change the codec from AAC to Apple Lossless Encoder. Then if you rip your CDs you will get a perfect copy, the files will be big though!
Compact Disc was invented in 1982, before even the original Macintosh. It will not be around forever! The resolution of a DVD movie is 720 x 480, which is only 4.2% the resolution of a 4K movie (720 x 480 / 3840 x 2160 = 0.042) so that won't be around forever either. The essence of a good collection is the careful selection and curation of the titles, not the particular media format. Your collection will still be just as excellent as your start to add downloads to it.
You're not listening. I fully realize Mojave is the last macOS to support 32bit apps. Nobody is disagreeing with that. I'm referring to the fact that you'll be able to run Mojave for a few years and still get security updates. So there is literally nothing preventing anyone from using optical media for the next few years at the very least, end of story. So why you're still prattling on about the virtues of physical media, I honestly do not know.
Your collection will still be just as excellent as your start to add downloads to it.
Well, not really, because if you stop paying, your content goes away.
But, I otherwise agree... unless you're on death's doorstep, you need a plan to keep moving your content (purchased or your own generated content) forward through technology. If you don't you're going to lose hardware/software compatibility with it. I still have a couple magnetic tapes I found in a box from a video camera that I'm going to have to go through special effort/expense to get the content off if I want to, and that wasn't even all that long ago.
fastasleep said: You're not listening. I fully realize Mojave is the last macOS to support 32bit apps. Nobody is disagreeing with that. I'm referring to the fact that you'll be able to run Mojave for a few years and still get security updates. So there is literally nothing preventing anyone from using optical media for the next few years at the very least, end of story. So why you're still prattling on about the virtues of physical media, I honestly do not know.
That, plus I seriously doubt that the speculations of those authors are correct and that even after that, there will be no way to read an optical disc with a computer. While I've also moved mostly off it, Macike is somewhat correct in that it isn't going away any time soon. There will have to be ways to deal with it for at least the next decade, or maybe even two. (i.e.: you can still get data off a VHS tape, it is just becoming quite rare and specialized... but CD/DVD doesn't have the magnetic tape issue, so it will be around in an obscure way for far longer.)
I don't plan on running Mojave, until I buy a new Mac, and it's pre-installed. I don't like High Sierra, either. I "prattle on" about the virtues of physical media, the same way Vinyl-lovers "prattle on" about the virtues of the sound of their LP's. Some people, unbeknownst to you, even prefer the sound of LP's because of the warmth and natural sound, compared to the hard, clinical sound of CD's, MP3's, AAC's, and Lossless. That's a personal choice, and is subjective. Some people don't subscribe to Apple Music or Music Match, you know. Somehow, you don't think DVD's/CD's have any virtues because YOU don't want to use them anymore. There are Black and White photographers, and turntable-lovers, that pay big money for High-End systems, and they actually enjoy them. Many Mac-users, but not all, will have to use an OS other than Mojave because of the requirements, and some, because of their Software and/or job, won't update to Mojave, so don't assume that everybody can or wants to use it. Depending on your subscriptions to Apple Music and Music Match, you still have some barriers to being able to burn everything you've ever bought, and there are many instances where DRM is still unavoidable. Using iTunes, you can burn from playlists, but not directly from Radio, your Library, or a shared playlist. If your playlist contains songs from the iTunes Store with DRM, you have a limit of 7 Discs that can be burned. Movies purchased from the iTunes Store, cannot be burned to a Video CD, or a DVD or VCD that plays in a DVD player. Some Songs won't burn if they are not "authorized to play" on that computer. Already, some third-party CD-RW burners are not supported.
I don't plan on running Mojave, until I buy a new Mac, and it's pre-installed. I don't like High Sierra, either. I "prattle on" about the virtues of physical media, the same way Vinyl-lovers "prattle on" about the virtues of the sound of their LP's. Some people, unbeknownst to you, even prefer the sound of LP's because of the warmth and natural sound, compared to the hard, clinical sound of CD's, MP3's, AAC's, and Lossless. That's a personal choice, and is subjective. Some people don't subscribe to Apple Music or Music Match, you know. Somehow, you don't think DVD's/CD's have any virtues because YOU don't want to use them anymore. There are Black and White photographers, and turntable-lovers, that pay big money for High-End systems, and they actually enjoy them. Many Mac-users, but not all, will have to use an OS other than Mojave because of the requirements, and some, because of their Software and/or job, won't update to Mojave, so don't assume that everybody can or wants to use it. Depending on your subscriptions to Apple Music and Music Match, you still have some barriers to being able to burn everything you've ever bought, and there are many instances where DRM is still unavoidable. Using iTunes, you can burn from playlists, but not directly from Radio, your Library, or a shared playlist. If your playlist contains songs from the iTunes Store with DRM, you have a limit of 7 Discs that can be burned. Movies purchased from the iTunes Store, cannot be burned to a Video CD, or a DVD or VCD that plays in a DVD player. Some Songs won't burn if they are not "authorized to play" on that computer. Already, some third-party CD-RW burners are not supported.
Your collection will still be just as excellent as your start to add downloads to it.
Well, not really, because if you stop paying, your content goes away.
There's no ongoing cost for movies purchased in iTunes. In fact if you maintain a local collection of ripped DVDs you probably have ongoing costs in terms of time and maintenance of your storage solution.
Furthermore Apple treats you well if you buy a movie from them! In the time I've owned my 100 or so movies in iTunes, many were upgraded from 720p to 1080p for free, and more recently about 7 or 8 have been upgraded to 4K HDR for free. You also notice new cover art downloading occassionally which is not a big thing but still nice.
Also, since newer Macs (Kaby Lake onwards) have 10-bit HEVC decoding hardware I suspect Apple will start re-encoding a lot of these movies from from H.264 to HEVC soon (to reduce their streaming costs). That saves me doing it! Also they will probably use professional video people who will re-encode from a lossless source and know the best codec parameters for different kinds of movies, which beats me fumbling around in Handbrake.
And never has a movie been removed from my iTunes collection. There are several that they no longer sell on the store, but Apple must have done some kind of deal with the studios whereby people who have already purchased something maintain access even if the studio removes it from sale. Those movies just remain in my collection and can be downloaded or viewed like any other, though I don't expect future resolution or codec upgrades for those ones.
Certainly for subscription services like Netflix you would lose access if you stopped paying. But even then, the cut throat competition in the subscription space means that the ongoing cost of a subscription is still probably less than maintaining a storage array. Unless like Macike you have everything on optical. Or, perhaps in your case you have a personal movie collection and are paying for storage for that anyway, so storing the commercial movies might not add much marginal cost. But in any event I don't think its clear cut that local collections are better.
ascii said: There's no ongoing cost for movies purchased in iTunes. In fact if you maintain a local collection of ripped DVDs you probably have ongoing costs in terms of time and maintenance of your storage solution.
I was thinking more in terms of music (or movie) subscriptions, but you're right, movies get more tricky. Though, it isn't impossible for Apple, Sony, Amazon, etc. movie services go away some day. Then even purchases would go away along with that.
I care less for most movies, I guess or video games, which is why I've fully embraced the digital download model for the latter. It's just way more convenient to launch a game rather than having to worry about putting the disc in or if it gets damaged. They aren worth next to zero after a few months anyway, and the technology moves fast enough that I won't be playing any game for a more than a couple of years anyway.
But, music is different. I buy discs when possible and they are easy to rip. Unfortunately, we've had to subscribe to Apple Music to get back functionality Apple took out of iTunes (allowing an easy home-server with download to local devices). I'm kind of miffed about that, though it is nice to grab a track here and there when the urge strikes me. It's kind of worth it for a family, especially of some family members like the streaming aspect.
Movies are tricky. I'm not sure if my Blu-ray has gone funky, but I can only get about 50% of Blu-rays ripped, it seems. I have them stored on a huge drive and shared out via Plex right now... but it's frustrating that I can't rip them all. I've got all our DVDs pretty much ripped (and many Blu-rays came with DVD, so I have the lower quality version, which looks surprisingly good when played via Plex on the PS4... even on a 55" 4k TV).
Since I have to have a big storage space that I keep backed up anyway, it isn't really much additional cost to have enough storage to put our media collection. But, it does take a bit of technical know-how and time. The convenience is nice, though. If my wife is traveling, she can easily (w/o my help) just pull local copies of whatever movies to her iPad and away she goes. I can do the same... even our young son can do it.
So, I like having physical media in terms of ownership, but I hardly ever use the physical media aside from an initial rip.
cgWerks said: [...] I still have a couple magnetic tapes I found in a box from a video camera that I'm going to have to go through special effort/expense to get the content off if I want to, and that wasn't even all that long ago.
I recently looked into a rack drawer I haven't opened in years and found a stash of DAT tapes.
I think I'm going to resign myself to accepting that whatever is on them is lost forever. The alternative makes my head hurt.
ascii said: There's no ongoing cost for movies purchased in iTunes. In fact if you maintain a local collection of ripped DVDs you probably have ongoing costs in terms of time and maintenance of your storage solution.
I was thinking more in terms of music (or movie) subscriptions, but you're right, movies get more tricky. Though, it isn't impossible for Apple, Sony, Amazon, etc. movie services go away some day. Then even purchases would go away along with that.
I care less for most movies, I guess or video games, which is why I've fully embraced the digital download model for the latter. It's just way more convenient to launch a game rather than having to worry about putting the disc in or if it gets damaged. They aren worth next to zero after a few months anyway, and the technology moves fast enough that I won't be playing any game for a more than a couple of years anyway.
But, music is different. I buy discs when possible and they are easy to rip. Unfortunately, we've had to subscribe to Apple Music to get back functionality Apple took out of iTunes (allowing an easy home-server with download to local devices). I'm kind of miffed about that, though it is nice to grab a track here and there when the urge strikes me. It's kind of worth it for a family, especially of some family members like the streaming aspect.
Movies are tricky. I'm not sure if my Blu-ray has gone funky, but I can only get about 50% of Blu-rays ripped, it seems. I have them stored on a huge drive and shared out via Plex right now... but it's frustrating that I can't rip them all. I've got all our DVDs pretty much ripped (and many Blu-rays came with DVD, so I have the lower quality version, which looks surprisingly good when played via Plex on the PS4... even on a 55" 4k TV).
Since I have to have a big storage space that I keep backed up anyway, it isn't really much additional cost to have enough storage to put our media collection. But, it does take a bit of technical know-how and time. The convenience is nice, though. If my wife is traveling, she can easily (w/o my help) just pull local copies of whatever movies to her iPad and away she goes. I can do the same... even our young son can do it.
So, I like having physical media in terms of ownership, but I hardly ever use the physical media aside from an initial rip.
Sounds like you've got a pretty sweet setup and if you've got the IT expertise and already have a large collection then that approach makes sense (especially as you say in the case of music where the file sizes are more manageable, and CDs have good quality tracks with no DRM). But for someone just starting their collection or without much IT expertise I still think iTunes is a good option.
The argument that some executive somewhere can erase your collection at a whim is still valid, and in the early days of online services I would make that argument myself. But now I temper it with the idea that as long as you deal with reputable companies to begin with you should be ok. For example look at the recent case where Microsoft decided to exit the music business, but upon doing so did a deal with Spotify to ensure their customers' collections were duplicated in that service. I think Apple would probably similarly look after people if they ever decided to exit the music business (and iTunes purchased tracks don't have DRM anyway so could just be downloaded given sufficient notice).
And if worse comes to worst and you do lose everything, its not like its your precious home movies or something, its just the creations of others.
ascii said: Sounds like you've got a pretty sweet setup and if you've got the IT expertise and already have a large collection then that approach makes sense (especially as you say in the case of music where the file sizes are more manageable, and CDs have good quality tracks with no DRM). But for someone just starting their collection or without much IT expertise I still think iTunes is a good option.
The argument that some executive somewhere can erase your collection at a whim is still valid, and in the early days of online services I would make that argument myself. But now I temper it with the idea that as long as you deal with reputable companies to begin with you should be ok. For example look at the recent case where Microsoft decided to exit the music business, but upon doing so did a deal with Spotify to ensure their customers' collections were duplicated in that service. I think Apple would probably similarly look after people if they ever decided to exit the music business (and iTunes purchased tracks don't have DRM anyway so could just be downloaded given sufficient notice).
And if worse comes to worst and you do lose everything, its not like its your precious home movies or something, its just the creations of others.
It's actually pretty simple (and more simple than it used to be). It's just a 4TB drive connected to my Mac and a couple of 'servers' setup on it like Plex and Air Video.
But, in general, I agree.
re: 'precious home movies' - people need to come up with some semi-reliable system for those anyway, so my HD connected to my Mac might just be kind of a minimum setup anyway. Adding Plex server really isn't that much harder.
I have Netflix(DVD and Streaming), Xfinity (Cable, DVR & On-demand) , Discs, and Tapes(VHS Hi-Fi and Super Beta Hi-Fi). I also have Apple Music and Music Match, and have bought Movies from the Apple Store. I enjoy them all.
Some iTunes purchased music does definitely have DRM. I definitely don’t have everything on discs. I have Laserdiscs, VHS-HiFi and Super Beta HiFi, Digital Audio Tape, Dolby B/C/HX Pro Cassette, Digital Compact Cassette,and even Cam Corder footage of Live performances. Collectors enjoy using and showing their libraries. My equipment is in immaculate condition, and my Music sources are so clean, that many people think they’re listening to a Cd, when it’s actually a Dolby HX Pro Metal Cassette! Some of us love the equipment as much as the content. I have Jazz Albums, and early Motown that is priceless, and will never be on CD, and that Album art that goes along with it. To each his/her own. Just like an Art collector, Stamp, or Book collector loves what they do.
Some iTunes purchased music does definitely have DRM. I definitely don’t have everything on discs. I have Laserdiscs, VHS-HiFi and Super Beta HiFi, Digital Audio Tape, Dolby B/C/HX Pro Cassette, Digital Compact Cassette,and even Cam Corder footage of Live performances. Collectors enjoy using and showing their libraries. My equipment is in immaculate condition, and my Music sources are so clean, that many people think they’re listening to a Cd, when it’s actually a Dolby HX Pro Metal Cassette! Some of us love the equipment as much as the content. I have Jazz Albums, and early Motown that is priceless, and will never be on CD, and that Album art that goes along with it. To each his/her own. Just like an Art collector, Stamp, or Book collector loves what they do.
That's pretty cool actually, having all that old tech still working.
I don't plan on running Mojave, until I buy a new Mac, and it's pre-installed.
HAHAHA WELL, it turns out all this handwringing was for naught — this is why the doomsayers always end up looking like morons in the end:
"DVD Player.app got updated! Now in /System/Library/CoreServices/Applications, version 6.0 is 64-bit, re-written with AppKit, supports Touch Bar! Also has a super boring icon (the optical disc icon)"
Some iTunes purchased music does definitely have DRM.
It does? Can you show me an example?
Music delivered via the subscription service is copy protected, but music purchased from the iTunes Store has been DRM-free since 2009. Anything purchased prior to that can be replaced with an iTunes Plus version. I suspect what you're referencing is music purchased prior to Apple removing DRM. Re-download it and it will be DRM free.
Apple should be updating their own software. Much of it still hasn’t been. Recent updates to iTunes has caused many problems. Apple’s website, on its support communities, on a post dated for March 23, 2016, clearly states that there is DRM on some purchased Music. I listed other instances such as a 7-disc limit, which were taken verbatim from the articles on burning discs and the limitations. None of them are my opinions, they all were quoted from Apple personnel. If you search on Apple.com or google for iTunes for Mac, dated Jan. 12, 2018, it states that Apple Music has DRM titles that have limits, which ones can’t be burned,etc.. I gave exact quotations.
Comments
You keep missing a fundamental point. I seriously don't care if people use CDs or not. I am talking about that, at all. As I and others have pointed out multiple times, there is literally no evidence to support your theory that people will be unable to use optical media with their Macs any time soon.
But, I otherwise agree... unless you're on death's doorstep, you need a plan to keep moving your content (purchased or your own generated content) forward through technology. If you don't you're going to lose hardware/software compatibility with it. I still have a couple magnetic tapes I found in a box from a video camera that I'm going to have to go through special effort/expense to get the content off if I want to, and that wasn't even all that long ago.
That, plus I seriously doubt that the speculations of those authors are correct and that even after that, there will be no way to read an optical disc with a computer. While I've also moved mostly off it, Macike is somewhat correct in that it isn't going away any time soon. There will have to be ways to deal with it for at least the next decade, or maybe even two. (i.e.: you can still get data off a VHS tape, it is just becoming quite rare and specialized... but CD/DVD doesn't have the magnetic tape issue, so it will be around in an obscure way for far longer.)
I care less for most movies, I guess or video games, which is why I've fully embraced the digital download model for the latter. It's just way more convenient to launch a game rather than having to worry about putting the disc in or if it gets damaged. They aren worth next to zero after a few months anyway, and the technology moves fast enough that I won't be playing any game for a more than a couple of years anyway.
But, music is different. I buy discs when possible and they are easy to rip. Unfortunately, we've had to subscribe to Apple Music to get back functionality Apple took out of iTunes (allowing an easy home-server with download to local devices). I'm kind of miffed about that, though it is nice to grab a track here and there when the urge strikes me. It's kind of worth it for a family, especially of some family members like the streaming aspect.
Movies are tricky. I'm not sure if my Blu-ray has gone funky, but I can only get about 50% of Blu-rays ripped, it seems. I have them stored on a huge drive and shared out via Plex right now... but it's frustrating that I can't rip them all. I've got all our DVDs pretty much ripped (and many Blu-rays came with DVD, so I have the lower quality version, which looks surprisingly good when played via Plex on the PS4... even on a 55" 4k TV).
Since I have to have a big storage space that I keep backed up anyway, it isn't really much additional cost to have enough storage to put our media collection. But, it does take a bit of technical know-how and time. The convenience is nice, though. If my wife is traveling, she can easily (w/o my help) just pull local copies of whatever movies to her iPad and away she goes. I can do the same... even our young son can do it.
So, I like having physical media in terms of ownership, but I hardly ever use the physical media aside from an initial rip.
I think I'm going to resign myself to accepting that whatever is on them is lost forever. The alternative makes my head hurt.
But, in general, I agree.
re: 'precious home movies' - people need to come up with some semi-reliable system for those anyway, so my HD connected to my Mac might just be kind of a minimum setup anyway. Adding Plex server really isn't that much harder.
"DVD Player.app got updated! Now in /System/Library/CoreServices/Applications, version 6.0 is 64-bit, re-written with AppKit, supports Touch Bar! Also has a super boring icon (the optical disc icon)"
Music delivered via the subscription service is copy protected, but music purchased from the iTunes Store has been DRM-free since 2009. Anything purchased prior to that can be replaced with an iTunes Plus version. I suspect what you're referencing is music purchased prior to Apple removing DRM. Re-download it and it will be DRM free.