I hate what is mistakenly called a "Pro" keyboard. The keyboard is absolute junk for fast touch typists, especially in a quiet room or library.
I hesitate to say "you're doing it wrong," but this is the exact opposite of my experience, and I am a fast touch typist and journalist/writer for a living, so to say I use the keyboard a lot would be a wild understatement. I own a 2012 MBP and had to resort to buying a silicon key cover to get the noise of my typing down to acceptable levels in my quiet office from the built-in "chicklet" keyboard (the silicon key cover also has other advantages too, like keeping the keys clean). At home, in fact, I generally use the Magic Keyboard (again with a key cover) rather than the built-in keyboard.
I also get to use a 13" MBP fairly often these days at one of my gigs, and find there to be no need for the key protection/noise dampening. My hands are constantly a millimetre or two above the keys, so I don't do the "strike" technique that I see a lot of, um, "veteran typists" use. I prefer the larger keys of the MB/MBP 2017 keyboard, and for me this is VERY quiet and provides greater typing accuracy than most of the external BT keyboards I use (for example on my iPad). You want a noisy keyboard, try the Logitech K480 (even though I love it in a weird way).
Maybe I'm the one doing it wrong, but for me the result is quieter typing with greater accuracy on the 2017 MB or MBP built-in keyboards.
Another issue people had with the 2016 redesign that wasn't mentioned is battery life. It's not that the 2016/2017 is less efficient it just simply has a smaller battery.
On my 2017 15" MBP in About This Mac/System Report/Power the battery size is shown as 6500 mAh but on my 2015 model it was over 8000 (haven't got it to hand to can't say the exact figure).
Nunzy said;
Apple makes boatloads more money now than it did when that stuff was popular.
Yes Nunzy, and if you look at the revenue figures last qtr 2018, 70% was from phones and just 8% from computers. Sales of Apple computers are going down and not up. Market share is what now? It was growing at one stage 10 years ago. Steve Jobs stated making money was not the main goal for Apple, just making the best product. Tim Cook needs to be reminded of this. Apple is selling 5 year old computers as new tech. If you can point me to the fastest desktop, fastest laptop, fast mini, with the latest graphics cards, fastest processors, fastest RAM, a range of 4K monitors, an iMac bigger than 27", let me and millions of mac users know where they are. As we would buy them today.
Mac sales are either staying steady or increasing in volume on a quarterly basis, in a PC market that is contracting in total sales.
Just imagine how much better sales would be if the Mac lines were up to date, let alone better in comparison to the competition as macs used to be and thus the curve is reset and Mac production is back in steep growth.
I honestly hate when people say this because you don't know that sales would go up. Just because something is newer than something else, doesn't automatically relate to better sales. In fact it's a very poor assumption IMO. The fact that Apple can keep its product line the way it is and keep its sales up YoY says this isn't necessarily true.
Another issue people had with the 2016 redesign that wasn't mentioned is battery life. It's not that the 2016/2017 is less efficient it just simply has a smaller battery.
On my 2017 15" MBP in About This Mac/System Report/Power the battery size is shown as 6500 mAh but on my 2015 model it was over 8000 (haven't got it to hand to can't say the exact figure).
But then again it has a more efficient CPU/GPU inside it as well. I don't recall many complaining about the battery life the newer models get versus the older ones. Maybe everyone is so stuck on the keyboard they forgot about the battery life.
I liked this article. Thanks! With that said, I especially liked how it lacked an overuse of the phrase, “with that said” or one of its many variations.
That said, I recently read an article on another tech site, and it was about the same size as this one. However, it used either “with that said,” “ with all of that said,” or “that said” 21 times.
Thankfully I don’t need a new MBP right now because I don’t know what I would do.
The loss of ports, SD Slot, MagSafe, physical function keys combined with worse battery life and keyboard far outweigh for me the “benefits” of thinner, slightly faster, and USB-C the 2017 models brought.
“At first, USB-C solutions were scarce, but if you take a look at Amazon today, the online marketplace is flooded with cables, adapters, high-speed SD Card readers and more.” There is still not one actual USB-C hub available for sale anywhere.
I had three grand sitting in the bank during WWDC to spend on a MacBook Pro. I still have my 2011 model and I’m not happy about that. It’s really in excusable that they do t have something available by now. I really hope they have something available by October when the new OS launches.
I really wish Apple would just hire more engineers to work in the Mac instead of having the same people design everything. Just keep the hardware up to date if you’re not gonna redesign it. But let me buy current gem tech damnit!
Well he does have a point, Soli. Apple users have very high expectations. For long periods macs were the best computers you could buy, so they tend to expect perfection.
So can anti-Apple trolls who come here to make simplistic statements, but these extremists don't write in a way that leave room for a discussion to be had.
But the Mac line is not really worth the list price at the moment. And I believe Mac sales are much, much less than they could have been.
I honestly can’t recommend one at present. I also desperately need a new machine for myself but am really hoping and hanging out for some decent choices ASAP, or I will regretfully have to move to the dark side, after more than thirty years of macs. I stuck with Apple during the dark days of the nineties, but it seems Apple hasn’t stuck with me.
In the eighties, the last half of the nineties, and the first twelve years of Mac OSX machines, macs were the best machines available at the time. You can’t say that now.
I'll reiterate that I believe that these are overall the best MBPs I've ever used. Even though that 2017 MBP keyboard isn't as comfortable and has slowed down my typing and accuracy, the display clearly looks better than my 2013 MBP… and I compared that keyboard to putting on new socks (which is about he highest praise there is from me).
While I don’t expect a redesign every year, at the very least keep them up to date graphics and processor wise. It sticks in my craw to have to consider a full priced machine with a previous generation(s) processor. To be honest, it’s a bit insulting. and if I feel insulted, am I going to recommend Macs, get family and friends to switch to the Mac, like I have done most of my life?
If you can hold off updating and not recommend a new Mac to people then don't do it. The only reason I bought the latest MBP is because I had a screen issue with my old one. I've even told family members with old Macs—some now over a decade, but they're using iPads mostly as it is that it's not a huge deal for them to wait—to hold off for now; but that's more about my desire for Apple to move to ARM and them not needing any of the "Pro" features like virtualization and x86_64 Adobe apps that may need to be side-loaded outside of the Mac App Store, than about the current keyboard design which I think they'll be fine with since they're almost always using an iPad.
And also, once switching to the dark side, am I going to recommend iPhones? Apple should think very carefully about that. Maybe I will be a jilted lover and bad mouth Apple every chance I get? I would hope I am more mature than that, but a lot of people aren’t. And who are Apple’s greatest, most committed promoters? People deeply invested in the Apple ecosystem, or some temporary instant instagram influencing it girl? Perhaps Apple could just stop treating its oldest and greatest evangelists like shit.
At this point in the cycle I'd also wait on recommending iPhones (or iPads), but overall I'd recommend them. Not that I have to since everyone I know seems to own an iPhone. But that's all moot because people will still buy the iPhone and I don't see Mac sales dropping any time, either.
Off Topic: I've been on an iPhone 7 for a second year. That's atypical of me. With the new changes to watchOS 5 I may be going for a 3rd year on the same iPhone. I will, of course, wait to see what changes come to the iPhone and Watch this year before making any final decisions.
Anyway, now that I have that off my chest, I am hoping for a Mac hardware event in the next month or so, at the Steve Jobs Theatre. I really expect hardware events to be there from now on.
As you know, anything with Apple is an echo chamber so we really don't know how bad or costly this Mac notebook issue is to Apple. Personally, I'm hoping that they redesign the entire keyboard so that it's even better feeling than my previous MBP, but I also understand that I (we) may an older generation that isn't the primary target for the future of the Mac. Hopefully the future lines up for us, but I see a path where it won't.
Nunzy said;
Apple makes boatloads more money now than it did when that stuff was popular.
Yes Nunzy, and if you look at the revenue figures last qtr 2018, 70% was from phones and just 8% from computers. Sales of Apple computers are going down and not up. Market share is what now? It was growing at one stage 10 years ago. Steve Jobs stated making money was not the main goal for Apple, just making the best product. Tim Cook needs to be reminded of this. Apple is selling 5 year old computers as new tech. If you can point me to the fastest desktop, fastest laptop, fast mini, with the latest graphics cards, fastest processors, fastest RAM, a range of 4K monitors, an iMac bigger than 27", let me and millions of mac users know where they are. As we would buy them today.
Mac sales are either staying steady or increasing in volume on a quarterly basis, in a PC market that is contracting in total sales.
Yes, that is so, trucking along at the far right top of the product adoption curve, just before senescence. That looks like the choice Apple has made, sadly.
Just imagine how much better sales would be if the Mac lines were up to date, let alone better in comparison to the competition as macs used to be and thus the curve is reset and Mac production is back in steep growth.
But of course, you don't know this for sure, because you have no idea why Mac sales are staying steady or increasing in volume. You say that if Apple did this or that then sales would be even better, but you haven't considered that the reason that Apple, to a certain extent, has bucked the trend with regard to stagnating PC sales is because more people actually want thinner, cooler and lighter laptops.
The USB-C connector on the MBP is hopeless. It falls out as soon as there is the slighted tension on the cable. Putting USB-C on the Iphone would be a very bad idea.
And if it didn’t do that, you’d be complaining that you tripped over the cable and pulled your laptop on to the floor.
...and again asking why they didn't keep the MagSafe connector. I have a 15" 2017 MacBook Pro. It's a great machine, but I still think it was moronic to go whole-hog with USB C and ditch MagSafe and not have a single USB A.
Because the USB-C port is smaller, and doesn't have a notion of 'upside-down'. Since it can also be used for power and data, then it allows them to have ports that can be used for power and data on both sides of the machine, which I actually make a lot of use of because I actually travel with my laptop.
If it's such a huge problem, you can always get one of these:
I hate what is mistakenly called a "Pro" keyboard. The keyboard is absolute junk for fast touch typists, especially in a quiet room or library.
I hesitate to say "you're doing it wrong," but this is the exact opposite of my experience, and I am a fast touch typist and journalist/writer for a living, so to say I use the keyboard a lot would be a wild understatement.
I own a 2012 MBP and had to resort to buying a silicon key cover to get the noise of my typing down to acceptable levels in my quiet office from the built-in "chicklet" keyboard (the silicon key cover also has other advantages too, like keeping the keys clean).
At home, in fact, I generally use the Magic Keyboard (again with a key cover) rather than the built-in keyboard.
I also get to use a 13" MBP fairly often these days at one of my gigs, and find there to be no need for the key protection/noise dampening. My hands are constantly a millimetre or two above the keys, so I don't do the "strike" technique that I see a lot of, um, "veteran typists" use. I prefer the larger keys of the MB/MBP 2017 keyboard, and for me this is VERY quiet and provides greater typing accuracy than most of the external BT keyboards I use (for example on my iPad). You want a noisy keyboard, try the Logitech K480 (even though I love it in a weird way).
Maybe I'm the one doing it wrong, but for me the result is quieter typing with greater accuracy on the 2017 MB or MBP built-in keyboards.
No, I don't think you're doing it wrong, since this is pretty much how I find the keyboard as well (unless we're both getting it wrong). The chances are that you're a competent touch-typist who doesn't need to strike the keyboard too hard, and this is who the keyboard seems to work the best for. I hated the keyboard for a few weeks, until I learned to change my typing style. Now I'm more accurate, faster, and have less problems with my hands and wrists.
I think this is the problem with being an Apple user: you either adapt to the changes, or you turn into the kind of person who whines on forums about the good old days when Apple was losing money hand over fist. The new keyboard is aimed at the iPad generation; that's who is buying Apple machines now, and they don't need deep clunky keyboards because that's not what they grew up with.
Can't imagine the wailing that will go on here when Apple replaces the keyboard with a haptic touch screen.
I'm nearing the time when I'll be considering a newer MBP for speed and the new OS... but I don't like not having a MagSafe connector, and I don't need or want the Touch Bar, and I'm not crazy about the new keyboard and I want USB2 and SATA and Ethernet... hell, Firewire 800 and Thunderbolt too. I want to be dongle-less. I guess I want my 2013 15" MBP with a new processor.
I'm nearing the time when I'll be considering a newer MBP for speed and the new OS... but I don't like not having a MagSafe connector, and I don't need or want the Touch Bar, and I'm not crazy about the new keyboard. I guess I want my 2013 15" MBP with a new processor.
1) I would definitely hold off until the next refresh.
2) There are some legitimate concerns there, but I don't think MagSafe should be one of them.
Yes as time goes by the decision to go all USB-C will be more and more painless, and the process was probably accelerated by Apple going all in with USB-C. I do miss the light up logo though. My imac’s GPU just folded. Again. I will try to bake it to fix again, when I have time. And in between live off my daughters’ MBAs with the SSD clone of my machine in an external drive. And the iPad Pro for casual. But I really, really need Apple to come out with some up to date kit.
The USB-C connector on the MBP is hopeless. It falls out as soon as there is the slighted tension on the cable. Putting USB-C on the Iphone would be a very bad idea.
And if it didn’t do that, you’d be complaining that you tripped over the cable and pulled your laptop on to the floor.
...and again asking why they didn't keep the MagSafe connector. I have a 15" 2017 MacBook Pro. It's a great machine, but I still think it was moronic to go whole-hog with USB C and ditch MagSafe and not have a single USB A.
Counting the number of MagSafe chargers I had to replace within 2 years, I think I know the answer.
As an owner of two of the newer MacBooks and MacBook pros with butterfly 2 keyboards, I have to say that I am disappointed. The keyboards don’t stink but surely aren’t good. The single USB port on the MacBook is just an embarrassment. Cannot charge and use a usb device at the same rime. No usb A port means dongle life forever. And a quite big power adapter for the MacBook pro13” that I have which is even heavier than the MacBook Air it replaces. And charging the MacBook under dim lighting conditions is a hassle with no MagSafe. For my personal company, I invested in. Huawei matebook Pro which alleviates most of the issues I discussed for hundreds less also.
Comments
I also get to use a 13" MBP fairly often these days at one of my gigs, and find there to be no need for the key protection/noise dampening. My hands are constantly a millimetre or two above the keys, so I don't do the "strike" technique that I see a lot of, um, "veteran typists" use. I prefer the larger keys of the MB/MBP 2017 keyboard, and for me this is VERY quiet and provides greater typing accuracy than most of the external BT keyboards I use (for example on my iPad). You want a noisy keyboard, try the Logitech K480 (even though I love it in a weird way).
Maybe I'm the one doing it wrong, but for me the result is quieter typing with greater accuracy on the 2017 MB or MBP built-in keyboards.
On my 2017 15" MBP in About This Mac/System Report/Power the battery size is shown as 6500 mAh but on my 2015 model it was over 8000 (haven't got it to hand to can't say the exact figure).
That said, I recently read an article on another tech site, and it was about the same size as this one. However, it used either “with that said,” “ with all of that said,” or “that said” 21 times.
With all of that said, thanks.
I'll reiterate that I believe that these are overall the best MBPs I've ever used. Even though that 2017 MBP keyboard isn't as comfortable and has slowed down my typing and accuracy, the display clearly looks better than my 2013 MBP… and I compared that keyboard to putting on new socks (which is about he highest praise there is from me).
If you can hold off updating and not recommend a new Mac to people then don't do it. The only reason I bought the latest MBP is because I had a screen issue with my old one. I've even told family members with old Macs—some now over a decade, but they're using iPads mostly as it is that it's not a huge deal for them to wait—to hold off for now; but that's more about my desire for Apple to move to ARM and them not needing any of the "Pro" features like virtualization and x86_64 Adobe apps that may need to be side-loaded outside of the Mac App Store, than about the current keyboard design which I think they'll be fine with since they're almost always using an iPad.
At this point in the cycle I'd also wait on recommending iPhones (or iPads), but overall I'd recommend them. Not that I have to since everyone I know seems to own an iPhone. But that's all moot because people will still buy the iPhone and I don't see Mac sales dropping any time, either.
Off Topic: I've been on an iPhone 7 for a second year. That's atypical of me. With the new changes to watchOS 5 I may be going for a 3rd year on the same iPhone. I will, of course, wait to see what changes come to the iPhone and Watch this year before making any final decisions.
As you know, anything with Apple is an echo chamber so we really don't know how bad or costly this Mac notebook issue is to Apple. Personally, I'm hoping that they redesign the entire keyboard so that it's even better feeling than my previous MBP, but I also understand that I (we) may an older generation that isn't the primary target for the future of the Mac. Hopefully the future lines up for us, but I see a path where it won't.
But of course, you don't know this for sure, because you have no idea why Mac sales are staying steady or increasing in volume. You say that if Apple did this or that then sales would be even better, but you haven't considered that the reason that Apple, to a certain extent, has bucked the trend with regard to stagnating PC sales is because more people actually want thinner, cooler and lighter laptops.
Because the USB-C port is smaller, and doesn't have a notion of 'upside-down'. Since it can also be used for power and data, then it allows them to have ports that can be used for power and data on both sides of the machine, which I actually make a lot of use of because I actually travel with my laptop.
If it's such a huge problem, you can always get one of these:
https://griffintechnology.com/breaksafe-magnetic-usb-c-power-cable
No, I don't think you're doing it wrong, since this is pretty much how I find the keyboard as well (unless we're both getting it wrong). The chances are that you're a competent touch-typist who doesn't need to strike the keyboard too hard, and this is who the keyboard seems to work the best for. I hated the keyboard for a few weeks, until I learned to change my typing style. Now I'm more accurate, faster, and have less problems with my hands and wrists.
I think this is the problem with being an Apple user: you either adapt to the changes, or you turn into the kind of person who whines on forums about the good old days when Apple was losing money hand over fist. The new keyboard is aimed at the iPad generation; that's who is buying Apple machines now, and they don't need deep clunky keyboards because that's not what they grew up with.
Can't imagine the wailing that will go on here when Apple replaces the keyboard with a haptic touch screen.
but I don't like not having a MagSafe connector,
and I don't need or want the Touch Bar,
and I'm not crazy about the new keyboard
and I want USB2 and SATA and Ethernet... hell, Firewire 800 and Thunderbolt too.
I want to be dongle-less.
I guess I want my 2013 15" MBP with a new processor.
2) There are some legitimate concerns there, but I don't think MagSafe should be one of them.
My imac’s GPU just folded. Again. I will try to bake it to fix again, when I have time. And in between live off my daughters’ MBAs with the SSD clone of my machine in an external drive. And the iPad Pro for casual. But I really, really need Apple to come out with some up to date kit.
Counting the number of MagSafe chargers I had to replace within 2 years, I think I know the answer.