Apple's mini 18W USB-C charger may be real after all

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 33
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,801member
    flydog said:
    melgross said:

    flydog said:
    The author states in the title that this "charger may be real after all," but then states within the article itself "there is no guarantee that it is genuine."   Click bait at its finest.
    I see no problem in what he said. It does look real, and it’s possible it’s not. Where’s the problem? We all want a much faster charger.
    The problem is that the title states that the charger may be real, which requires evidence of its existence other than photos that may or may not be genuine.  In other words, the conclusion requires the facts in the article to be valid, which the author concedes may not be. 

    A more honest title would have been "Photos of rumored 18W charger making the rounds online" 
    No. They have photos of a device that certainly looks real. There have been rumors that this year, Apple would be giving bigger rechargers. Do we know for sure these are real? Of course not, and he states that, but with Apple enabling faster charging for a least two years now, it’s reasonable to expect bigger chargers that take advantage of it, I’m sure Apple reads the reviews that show how slowly iPhones (and iPads) charge.

    all of this leads to an expectation that these are real, though they might not be. I don’t understand you thinking here. The article is speculating. There’s nothing wrong with that, and you’re making a big deal out of nothing.
    edited July 2018 Alex1N
  • Reply 22 of 33
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,801member

    wizard69 said:
    melgross said:
    nunzy said:
    Why should Apple give these away for free when they can make a good margin selling them? I guess they think that they will sell enough of additional iPhone to make up the profit and even make some more.
    Because it would be stupid to sell them. Apple’s charging times have been behind most Android phones for years. There’s no excuse for that, particularly at the prices. Those chargers were used with the first iPhone 10 years ago. The batteries are several times as large in the big models, and so charging times have gotten longer.
    Actually I suspect that Apples modest charging capacity relates to saving the battery.    After all if they have to offer extended warranties in other countries you might as well do what is required to make sure batteries don't fail early.
    Successful fast charging requires a higher spec’ed battery. Apple states that they use 1,000 charge batteries for iPhones, whereas other companies use 500 charge batteries. That already means that the batteries are of higher quality. Lower internal resistance will produce less heat for a given charge rate. I have to assume that Apple has thought this out, and has prepared these phones for the high charge rate they’re officially rated for. Apple also recommends higher capacity chargers for the iPad Pro, in particular, and a 12 watt charger cuts the charge time noticeably for my 7+. My 29 watt charger not only cuts the charge time for my iPad Pro 12.9” almost by half, but it reduces the charge time for my iPhone 7+ by about an additional 10-15% over a 12 watt charger.

    what more needs to be said?
    edited July 2018 Alex1N
  • Reply 23 of 33
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,801member
    wizard69 said:
    18 watts is pretty serious power and as such could make for decent power supplies for micro processor boards.    Sure that is a limited interest area but I can see these chargers having more long term value if Apple hasn't gone too far with port control.

    On another note how many here are frustrated by the lack of decent leaks about coming hardware?    We have basically seen nothing related to the Mac's, the Iphones, absolutely nothing iPad related, nothing watch related.    In other words pretty much nothing about the hardware we are all interested in.    The only thing I've seen, and it is highly debatable is supposed A12 benchmarks that just showed up.   Frankly being too tight with information leads to one loosing interest.
    I’m not disappointed about lack of leaks. I’m disappointed about lack of new product on a regular schedule, as we had in the past. Only the iPhone can be counted on these days. Maybe the Apple Watch, if Apple has definitely synced them. But for everything else, it’s become a crapshoot, and so that makes it seem as though the lack of leaks is bad.
    Alex1N
  • Reply 24 of 33
    mbenz1962mbenz1962 Posts: 127member
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    I'm not sure I buy this rumor.  If apple bundled an 18W charger with every iDevice, that would simplfiy their portfolio and bring some additional econimies of scale to help with the cost, but Apple just released a 30W USB-C charger.  The only devices listed as compatable are recent iDevices, but currently only iPads Pro can take advantage of the full 14.5V @ 2Amp charging capability.  I can't imagine that people buying an iPhone would get an 18W charger and people buying an iPad wouldn't.  So, Apple would either have to sunset the 12W charger for the whole iPad line and hope there is a signifficant enough upsell rate for the market of Pro buyers (who would be receiving an 18W charger) to justify the engineering of the 30W charger just released, or Apple will bundle the 18W with the iPhone and normal iPad and the 30W with the new iPads pro. Both seem like an unusual proposition.
    Apple has to do something. Maybe they will bundle the 30 watt with the iPad Pro. There’s just no excuse to be giving a vastly underpowered charger. That holds for the iPad Pro 12.9” in particular. My 29 watt Macbook charger charges both my 7+ and my iPad Pro 12.9” much faster.

    I'm not sure that I agree.  Faster charging is a nice feature, but it isn't really needed for a large percentage of people.  Professionals or people who are always on the go (business travelers, doctors, wait staff, etc.) certainly benefit as they are heavily using and depending on their devices and additionally may frequently have a limited time to charge a device during the day and need to maximize the charging during that limited time-frame.  


    The devices work fine with the included chargers for overnight charging which serves the general population adequately.  I travel occasionally for work and as often as possible for pleasure and I have tried mentally to justify the ~$70 price of the new 30W charger and USB-C to lightning cable for those times when I want to juice up ~20% in 15 min and, to be honest, I have only had a handful of times that I would have benefited.  Most of the time my battery lasts the whole day and the times when I have had long enough to plug in and access to an outlet where a quick charger would help out are pretty sparse.  I find a portable power bank suits my needs better as I don't need access to an outlet and can remain on the move.  


    If this charger was 10W or even 12W I might believe it because then they could replace the current 5W and 12W chargers with a more compact design and still leave room for the new 30W.  This would offer a benefit to those iPhone buyers that want/need faster charging and reducing the size of the 12W wall wart for the iPad buyers.  To be honest, the capacity of this charger kind of blows the whole use case as current iPhones can't take advantage of the full capacity and it is just too close to the 30W for the 30W to remain an attractive purchase.  The only thing I could imagine this being used for is bundling with the AirPower mat.  Even then I would imagine Apple would go with the 30W to allow enough capacity for the eventual transition to 15W charging in the Qi 1.2 standard.


    edited July 2018
  • Reply 25 of 33
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,801member
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    I'm not sure I buy this rumor.  If apple bundled an 18W charger with every iDevice, that would simplfiy their portfolio and bring some additional econimies of scale to help with the cost, but Apple just released a 30W USB-C charger.  The only devices listed as compatable are recent iDevices, but currently only iPads Pro can take advantage of the full 14.5V @ 2Amp charging capability.  I can't imagine that people buying an iPhone would get an 18W charger and people buying an iPad wouldn't.  So, Apple would either have to sunset the 12W charger for the whole iPad line and hope there is a signifficant enough upsell rate for the market of Pro buyers (who would be receiving an 18W charger) to justify the engineering of the 30W charger just released, or Apple will bundle the 18W with the iPhone and normal iPad and the 30W with the new iPads pro. Both seem like an unusual proposition.
    Apple has to do something. Maybe they will bundle the 30 watt with the iPad Pro. There’s just no excuse to be giving a vastly underpowered charger. That holds for the iPad Pro 12.9” in particular. My 29 watt Macbook charger charges both my 7+ and my iPad Pro 12.9” much faster.

    I'm not sure that I agree.  Faster charging is a nice feature, but it isn't really needed for a large percentage of people.  Professionals or people who are always on the go (business travelers, doctors, wait staff, etc.) certainly benefit as they are heavily using and depending on their devices and additionally may frequently have a limited time to charge a device during the day and need to maximize the charging during that limited time-frame.  


    The devices work fine with the included chargers for overnight charging which serves the general population adequately.  I travel occasionally for work and as often as possible for pleasure and I have tried mentally to justify the ~$70 price of the new 30W charger and USB-C to lightning cable for those times when I want to juice up ~20% in 15 min and, to be honest, I have only had a handful of times that I would have benefited.  Most of the time my battery lasts the whole day and the times when I have had long enough to plug in and access to an outlet where a quick charger would help out are pretty sparse.  I find a portable power bank suits my needs better as I don't need access to an outlet and can remain on the move.  


    If this charger was 10W or even 12W I might believe it because then they could replace the current 5W and 12W chargers with a more compact design and still leave room for the new 30W.  This would offer a benefit to those iPhone buyers that want/need faster charging and reducing the size of the 12W wall wart for the iPad buyers.  To be honest, the capacity of this charger kind of blows the whole use case as current iPhones can't take advantage of the full capacity and it is just too close to the 30W for the 30W to remain an attractive purchase.  The only thing I could imagine this being used for is bundling with the AirPower mat.  Even then I would imagine Apple would go with the 30W to allow enough capacity for the eventual transition to 15W charging in the Qi 1.2 standard.


    Look, it’s a done deal, so there’s no point in coming out with statements as to why it isn’t necessary. For two years now, Apple’s phones have been capable of charging with 15 Watts. There’s nothing you can do to turn the clock back. Now, it’s just a matter of them producing chargers that will allow all of their customers to take advantage of that. And yes, I’d bet that almost everyone wants this quicker charging. I sure do. I don’t know anyone who would say no.

    convoluted arguments, or not, you’re behind the 8 ball here.
  • Reply 26 of 33
    mbenz1962mbenz1962 Posts: 127member
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    I'm not sure I buy this rumor.  If apple bundled an 18W charger with every iDevice, that would simplfiy their portfolio and bring some additional econimies of scale to help with the cost, but Apple just released a 30W USB-C charger.  The only devices listed as compatable are recent iDevices, but currently only iPads Pro can take advantage of the full 14.5V @ 2Amp charging capability.  I can't imagine that people buying an iPhone would get an 18W charger and people buying an iPad wouldn't.  So, Apple would either have to sunset the 12W charger for the whole iPad line and hope there is a signifficant enough upsell rate for the market of Pro buyers (who would be receiving an 18W charger) to justify the engineering of the 30W charger just released, or Apple will bundle the 18W with the iPhone and normal iPad and the 30W with the new iPads pro. Both seem like an unusual proposition.
    Apple has to do something. Maybe they will bundle the 30 watt with the iPad Pro. There’s just no excuse to be giving a vastly underpowered charger. That holds for the iPad Pro 12.9” in particular. My 29 watt Macbook charger charges both my 7+ and my iPad Pro 12.9” much faster.

    I'm not sure that I agree.  Faster charging is a nice feature, but it isn't really needed for a large percentage of people.  Professionals or people who are always on the go (business travelers, doctors, wait staff, etc.) certainly benefit as they are heavily using and depending on their devices and additionally may frequently have a limited time to charge a device during the day and need to maximize the charging during that limited time-frame.  


    The devices work fine with the included chargers for overnight charging which serves the general population adequately.  I travel occasionally for work and as often as possible for pleasure and I have tried mentally to justify the ~$70 price of the new 30W charger and USB-C to lightning cable for those times when I want to juice up ~20% in 15 min and, to be honest, I have only had a handful of times that I would have benefited.  Most of the time my battery lasts the whole day and the times when I have had long enough to plug in and access to an outlet where a quick charger would help out are pretty sparse.  I find a portable power bank suits my needs better as I don't need access to an outlet and can remain on the move.  


    If this charger was 10W or even 12W I might believe it because then they could replace the current 5W and 12W chargers with a more compact design and still leave room for the new 30W.  This would offer a benefit to those iPhone buyers that want/need faster charging and reducing the size of the 12W wall wart for the iPad buyers.  To be honest, the capacity of this charger kind of blows the whole use case as current iPhones can't take advantage of the full capacity and it is just too close to the 30W for the 30W to remain an attractive purchase.  The only thing I could imagine this being used for is bundling with the AirPower mat.  Even then I would imagine Apple would go with the 30W to allow enough capacity for the eventual transition to 15W charging in the Qi 1.2 standard.


    Look, it’s a done deal, so there’s no point in coming out with statements as to why it isn’t necessary. For two years now, Apple’s phones have been capable of charging with 15 Watts. There’s nothing you can do to turn the clock back. Now, it’s just a matter of them producing chargers that will allow all of their customers to take advantage of that. And yes, I’d bet that almost everyone wants this quicker charging. I sure do. I don’t know anyone who would say no.

    convoluted arguments, or not, you’re behind the 8 ball here.
    I actually don't have "a dog in this fight".  If this 18W charger is indeed released as a bundle item with iPhones I'd be surprised, but pleasantly so, as no one is going to say, "I prefer slower charging".  I'm only pointing out for the sake of discussion the reasons that this rumor seems to me to be false, and I sure didn't do it in a convoluted way.
    As for your assertion that "it's a done deal", I guess we'll see in September.  "The proof is of the pudding is in the eating", as they say...
  • Reply 27 of 33
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,767member
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    I'm not sure I buy this rumor.  If apple bundled an 18W charger with every iDevice, that would simplfiy their portfolio and bring some additional econimies of scale to help with the cost, but Apple just released a 30W USB-C charger.  The only devices listed as compatable are recent iDevices, but currently only iPads Pro can take advantage of the full 14.5V @ 2Amp charging capability.  I can't imagine that people buying an iPhone would get an 18W charger and people buying an iPad wouldn't.  So, Apple would either have to sunset the 12W charger for the whole iPad line and hope there is a signifficant enough upsell rate for the market of Pro buyers (who would be receiving an 18W charger) to justify the engineering of the 30W charger just released, or Apple will bundle the 18W with the iPhone and normal iPad and the 30W with the new iPads pro. Both seem like an unusual proposition.
    Apple has to do something. Maybe they will bundle the 30 watt with the iPad Pro. There’s just no excuse to be giving a vastly underpowered charger. That holds for the iPad Pro 12.9” in particular. My 29 watt Macbook charger charges both my 7+ and my iPad Pro 12.9” much faster.

    I'm not sure that I agree.  Faster charging is a nice feature, but it isn't really needed for a large percentage of people.  Professionals or people who are always on the go (business travelers, doctors, wait staff, etc.) certainly benefit as they are heavily using and depending on their devices and additionally may frequently have a limited time to charge a device during the day and need to maximize the charging during that limited time-frame.  


    The devices work fine with the included chargers for overnight charging which serves the general population adequately.  I travel occasionally for work and as often as possible for pleasure and I have tried mentally to justify the ~$70 price of the new 30W charger and USB-C to lightning cable for those times when I want to juice up ~20% in 15 min and, to be honest, I have only had a handful of times that I would have benefited.  Most of the time my battery lasts the whole day and the times when I have had long enough to plug in and access to an outlet where a quick charger would help out are pretty sparse.  I find a portable power bank suits my needs better as I don't need access to an outlet and can remain on the move.  


    If this charger was 10W or even 12W I might believe it because then they could replace the current 5W and 12W chargers with a more compact design and still leave room for the new 30W.  This would offer a benefit to those iPhone buyers that want/need faster charging and reducing the size of the 12W wall wart for the iPad buyers.  To be honest, the capacity of this charger kind of blows the whole use case as current iPhones can't take advantage of the full capacity and it is just too close to the 30W for the 30W to remain an attractive purchase.  The only thing I could imagine this being used for is bundling with the AirPower mat.  Even then I would imagine Apple would go with the 30W to allow enough capacity for the eventual transition to 15W charging in the Qi 1.2 standard.


    Look, it’s a done deal, so there’s no point in coming out with statements as to why it isn’t necessary. For two years now, Apple’s phones have been capable of charging with 15 Watts. There’s nothing you can do to turn the clock back. Now, it’s just a matter of them producing chargers that will allow all of their customers to take advantage of that. And yes, I’d bet that almost everyone wants this quicker charging. I sure do. I don’t know anyone who would say no.

    convoluted arguments, or not, you’re behind the 8 ball here.
    I hope you are right.
  • Reply 28 of 33
    CaffiendCaffiend Posts: 13member
    I find it idiotic that Apple FanBoys aren’t outraged that Apple maintains its greedy lock on USB-C to Lightning Cables. Even worse, they encourage Apple by maintaining that Apple is “entitled” to charge premium prices for Cables and Chargers.

    Fortunately, well made USB-C power adapters with so called “Power Delivery” are already available at about ½ the price of Apple’s at each level ~30 Watt, ~60 Watt, and ~90 Watt. If one just wants 18 Watts there a nice ones for ~$20.

    One still needs to buy Apple USB-C to Lightning Cables. And they only come in white, no black, no space grey, silver, gold, rose gold, or Red.

    Today’s buyers are often unbelievably naive. I grew up on commercials that said, “An educated consumer is our best customer.” I took that slogan to heart.
  • Reply 29 of 33
    mbenz1962mbenz1962 Posts: 127member
    k2kw said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    I'm not sure I buy this rumor.  If apple bundled an 18W charger with every iDevice, that would simplfiy their portfolio and bring some additional econimies of scale to help with the cost, but Apple just released a 30W USB-C charger.  The only devices listed as compatable are recent iDevices, but currently only iPads Pro can take advantage of the full 14.5V @ 2Amp charging capability.  I can't imagine that people buying an iPhone would get an 18W charger and people buying an iPad wouldn't.  So, Apple would either have to sunset the 12W charger for the whole iPad line and hope there is a signifficant enough upsell rate for the market of Pro buyers (who would be receiving an 18W charger) to justify the engineering of the 30W charger just released, or Apple will bundle the 18W with the iPhone and normal iPad and the 30W with the new iPads pro. Both seem like an unusual proposition.
    Apple has to do something. Maybe they will bundle the 30 watt with the iPad Pro. There’s just no excuse to be giving a vastly underpowered charger. That holds for the iPad Pro 12.9” in particular. My 29 watt Macbook charger charges both my 7+ and my iPad Pro 12.9” much faster.

    I'm not sure that I agree.  Faster charging is a nice feature, but it isn't really needed for a large percentage of people.  Professionals or people who are always on the go (business travelers, doctors, wait staff, etc.) certainly benefit as they are heavily using and depending on their devices and additionally may frequently have a limited time to charge a device during the day and need to maximize the charging during that limited time-frame.  


    The devices work fine with the included chargers for overnight charging which serves the general population adequately.  I travel occasionally for work and as often as possible for pleasure and I have tried mentally to justify the ~$70 price of the new 30W charger and USB-C to lightning cable for those times when I want to juice up ~20% in 15 min and, to be honest, I have only had a handful of times that I would have benefited.  Most of the time my battery lasts the whole day and the times when I have had long enough to plug in and access to an outlet where a quick charger would help out are pretty sparse.  I find a portable power bank suits my needs better as I don't need access to an outlet and can remain on the move.  


    If this charger was 10W or even 12W I might believe it because then they could replace the current 5W and 12W chargers with a more compact design and still leave room for the new 30W.  This would offer a benefit to those iPhone buyers that want/need faster charging and reducing the size of the 12W wall wart for the iPad buyers.  To be honest, the capacity of this charger kind of blows the whole use case as current iPhones can't take advantage of the full capacity and it is just too close to the 30W for the 30W to remain an attractive purchase.  The only thing I could imagine this being used for is bundling with the AirPower mat.  Even then I would imagine Apple would go with the 30W to allow enough capacity for the eventual transition to 15W charging in the Qi 1.2 standard.


    Look, it’s a done deal, so there’s no point in coming out with statements as to why it isn’t necessary. For two years now, Apple’s phones have been capable of charging with 15 Watts. There’s nothing you can do to turn the clock back. Now, it’s just a matter of them producing chargers that will allow all of their customers to take advantage of that. And yes, I’d bet that almost everyone wants this quicker charging. I sure do. I don’t know anyone who would say no.

    convoluted arguments, or not, you’re behind the 8 ball here.
    I hope you are right.

    I hope he is right too actually since I would then definitely save the ~$70 on the 30W charger/cable combo.


  • Reply 30 of 33
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,066member
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    I'm not sure I buy this rumor.  If apple bundled an 18W charger with every iDevice, that would simplfiy their portfolio and bring some additional econimies of scale to help with the cost, but Apple just released a 30W USB-C charger.  The only devices listed as compatable are recent iDevices, but currently only iPads Pro can take advantage of the full 14.5V @ 2Amp charging capability.  I can't imagine that people buying an iPhone would get an 18W charger and people buying an iPad wouldn't.  So, Apple would either have to sunset the 12W charger for the whole iPad line and hope there is a signifficant enough upsell rate for the market of Pro buyers (who would be receiving an 18W charger) to justify the engineering of the 30W charger just released, or Apple will bundle the 18W with the iPhone and normal iPad and the 30W with the new iPads pro. Both seem like an unusual proposition.
    Apple has to do something. Maybe they will bundle the 30 watt with the iPad Pro. There’s just no excuse to be giving a vastly underpowered charger. That holds for the iPad Pro 12.9” in particular. My 29 watt Macbook charger charges both my 7+ and my iPad Pro 12.9” much faster.

    I'm not sure that I agree.  Faster charging is a nice feature, but it isn't really needed for a large percentage of people.  Professionals or people who are always on the go (business travelers, doctors, wait staff, etc.) certainly benefit as they are heavily using and depending on their devices and additionally may frequently have a limited time to charge a device during the day and need to maximize the charging during that limited time-frame.  


    The devices work fine with the included chargers for overnight charging which serves the general population adequately.  I travel occasionally for work and as often as possible for pleasure and I have tried mentally to justify the ~$70 price of the new 30W charger and USB-C to lightning cable for those times when I want to juice up ~20% in 15 min and, to be honest, I have only had a handful of times that I would have benefited.  Most of the time my battery lasts the whole day and the times when I have had long enough to plug in and access to an outlet where a quick charger would help out are pretty sparse.  I find a portable power bank suits my needs better as I don't need access to an outlet and can remain on the move.  


    If this charger was 10W or even 12W I might believe it because then they could replace the current 5W and 12W chargers with a more compact design and still leave room for the new 30W.  This would offer a benefit to those iPhone buyers that want/need faster charging and reducing the size of the 12W wall wart for the iPad buyers.  To be honest, the capacity of this charger kind of blows the whole use case as current iPhones can't take advantage of the full capacity and it is just too close to the 30W for the 30W to remain an attractive purchase.  The only thing I could imagine this being used for is bundling with the AirPower mat.  Even then I would imagine Apple would go with the 30W to allow enough capacity for the eventual transition to 15W charging in the Qi 1.2 standard.


    Once you've used fast charging you wouldn't want to go back, as the results are so beneficial. 

    Overnight charging is invisible to the user but when you're in a squeeze (and who hasn't been at some point?) Slow charging is a very painful experience. Like trying to get some wet clothes dry before you can put them on.

    Being able to charge faster (and safely) is a plus to all users and as the technology has been around for years now so any fears about the useful life of the battery have long been dispelled.

    I've been fast charging the battery on my phone for nearly three years now. Only in the last few months has it begun to slack (around 18h) and need a top up. I am a heavy user but even in my everyday life it has been a godsend.

    Coming home and needing to go out and be sure you have enough juice to get you through the evening is as simple as plugging in, having a shower, changing clothes and leaving.

    Apple should have been offering fast charging years ago and offering more powerful chargers out of the box. There's no valid reason not to.

    Fast charging also makes wireless charging pretty much unnecessary too. It's a great but slow convenience but if you were given the option I'm sure you'd opt for fast charging over wireless charging.

    I live in a smart city with charging points everywhere but I have never needed to use one.


  • Reply 31 of 33
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,801member
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    I'm not sure I buy this rumor.  If apple bundled an 18W charger with every iDevice, that would simplfiy their portfolio and bring some additional econimies of scale to help with the cost, but Apple just released a 30W USB-C charger.  The only devices listed as compatable are recent iDevices, but currently only iPads Pro can take advantage of the full 14.5V @ 2Amp charging capability.  I can't imagine that people buying an iPhone would get an 18W charger and people buying an iPad wouldn't.  So, Apple would either have to sunset the 12W charger for the whole iPad line and hope there is a signifficant enough upsell rate for the market of Pro buyers (who would be receiving an 18W charger) to justify the engineering of the 30W charger just released, or Apple will bundle the 18W with the iPhone and normal iPad and the 30W with the new iPads pro. Both seem like an unusual proposition.
    Apple has to do something. Maybe they will bundle the 30 watt with the iPad Pro. There’s just no excuse to be giving a vastly underpowered charger. That holds for the iPad Pro 12.9” in particular. My 29 watt Macbook charger charges both my 7+ and my iPad Pro 12.9” much faster.

    I'm not sure that I agree.  Faster charging is a nice feature, but it isn't really needed for a large percentage of people.  Professionals or people who are always on the go (business travelers, doctors, wait staff, etc.) certainly benefit as they are heavily using and depending on their devices and additionally may frequently have a limited time to charge a device during the day and need to maximize the charging during that limited time-frame.  


    The devices work fine with the included chargers for overnight charging which serves the general population adequately.  I travel occasionally for work and as often as possible for pleasure and I have tried mentally to justify the ~$70 price of the new 30W charger and USB-C to lightning cable for those times when I want to juice up ~20% in 15 min and, to be honest, I have only had a handful of times that I would have benefited.  Most of the time my battery lasts the whole day and the times when I have had long enough to plug in and access to an outlet where a quick charger would help out are pretty sparse.  I find a portable power bank suits my needs better as I don't need access to an outlet and can remain on the move.  


    If this charger was 10W or even 12W I might believe it because then they could replace the current 5W and 12W chargers with a more compact design and still leave room for the new 30W.  This would offer a benefit to those iPhone buyers that want/need faster charging and reducing the size of the 12W wall wart for the iPad buyers.  To be honest, the capacity of this charger kind of blows the whole use case as current iPhones can't take advantage of the full capacity and it is just too close to the 30W for the 30W to remain an attractive purchase.  The only thing I could imagine this being used for is bundling with the AirPower mat.  Even then I would imagine Apple would go with the 30W to allow enough capacity for the eventual transition to 15W charging in the Qi 1.2 standard.


    Look, it’s a done deal, so there’s no point in coming out with statements as to why it isn’t necessary. For two years now, Apple’s phones have been capable of charging with 15 Watts. There’s nothing you can do to turn the clock back. Now, it’s just a matter of them producing chargers that will allow all of their customers to take advantage of that. And yes, I’d bet that almost everyone wants this quicker charging. I sure do. I don’t know anyone who would say no.

    convoluted arguments, or not, you’re behind the 8 ball here.
    I actually don't have "a dog in this fight".  If this 18W charger is indeed released as a bundle item with iPhones I'd be surprised, but pleasantly so, as no one is going to say, "I prefer slower charging".  I'm only pointing out for the sake of discussion the reasons that this rumor seems to me to be false, and I sure didn't do it in a convoluted way.
    As for your assertion that "it's a done deal", I guess we'll see in September.  "The proof is of the pudding is in the eating", as they say...
    The done deal is the availability of quick charging in the phones, and iPads. The chargers are just to enable that feature for everyone without requiring, as now, that they buy an additional charger at a high price.
    Your convoluted argument was in saying that most people don’t need quick charging, and trying to give reasons why. That’s convoluted, because there’s no reason to believe it’s true for any reason, and your attempt to show  why a large percentage of people don’t NEED it. That argument never works in the real world, because much of what we have, we don’t NEED. That doesn’t mean that we don’t find it convienient. Or desirable.
  • Reply 32 of 33
    mbenz1962mbenz1962 Posts: 127member
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    I'm not sure I buy this rumor.  If apple bundled an 18W charger with every iDevice, that would simplfiy their portfolio and bring some additional econimies of scale to help with the cost, but Apple just released a 30W USB-C charger.  The only devices listed as compatable are recent iDevices, but currently only iPads Pro can take advantage of the full 14.5V @ 2Amp charging capability.  I can't imagine that people buying an iPhone would get an 18W charger and people buying an iPad wouldn't.  So, Apple would either have to sunset the 12W charger for the whole iPad line and hope there is a signifficant enough upsell rate for the market of Pro buyers (who would be receiving an 18W charger) to justify the engineering of the 30W charger just released, or Apple will bundle the 18W with the iPhone and normal iPad and the 30W with the new iPads pro. Both seem like an unusual proposition.
    Apple has to do something. Maybe they will bundle the 30 watt with the iPad Pro. There’s just no excuse to be giving a vastly underpowered charger. That holds for the iPad Pro 12.9” in particular. My 29 watt Macbook charger charges both my 7+ and my iPad Pro 12.9” much faster.

    I'm not sure that I agree.  Faster charging is a nice feature, but it isn't really needed for a large percentage of people.  Professionals or people who are always on the go (business travelers, doctors, wait staff, etc.) certainly benefit as they are heavily using and depending on their devices and additionally may frequently have a limited time to charge a device during the day and need to maximize the charging during that limited time-frame.  


    The devices work fine with the included chargers for overnight charging which serves the general population adequately.  I travel occasionally for work and as often as possible for pleasure and I have tried mentally to justify the ~$70 price of the new 30W charger and USB-C to lightning cable for those times when I want to juice up ~20% in 15 min and, to be honest, I have only had a handful of times that I would have benefited.  Most of the time my battery lasts the whole day and the times when I have had long enough to plug in and access to an outlet where a quick charger would help out are pretty sparse.  I find a portable power bank suits my needs better as I don't need access to an outlet and can remain on the move.  


    If this charger was 10W or even 12W I might believe it because then they could replace the current 5W and 12W chargers with a more compact design and still leave room for the new 30W.  This would offer a benefit to those iPhone buyers that want/need faster charging and reducing the size of the 12W wall wart for the iPad buyers.  To be honest, the capacity of this charger kind of blows the whole use case as current iPhones can't take advantage of the full capacity and it is just too close to the 30W for the 30W to remain an attractive purchase.  The only thing I could imagine this being used for is bundling with the AirPower mat.  Even then I would imagine Apple would go with the 30W to allow enough capacity for the eventual transition to 15W charging in the Qi 1.2 standard.


    Look, it’s a done deal, so there’s no point in coming out with statements as to why it isn’t necessary. For two years now, Apple’s phones have been capable of charging with 15 Watts. There’s nothing you can do to turn the clock back. Now, it’s just a matter of them producing chargers that will allow all of their customers to take advantage of that. And yes, I’d bet that almost everyone wants this quicker charging. I sure do. I don’t know anyone who would say no.

    convoluted arguments, or not, you’re behind the 8 ball here.
    I actually don't have "a dog in this fight".  If this 18W charger is indeed released as a bundle item with iPhones I'd be surprised, but pleasantly so, as no one is going to say, "I prefer slower charging".  I'm only pointing out for the sake of discussion the reasons that this rumor seems to me to be false, and I sure didn't do it in a convoluted way.
    As for your assertion that "it's a done deal", I guess we'll see in September.  "The proof is of the pudding is in the eating", as they say...
    The done deal is the availability of quick charging in the phones, and iPads. The chargers are just to enable that feature for everyone without requiring, as now, that they buy an additional charger at a high price.
    Your convoluted argument was in saying that most people don’t need quick charging, and trying to give reasons why. That’s convoluted, because there’s no reason to believe it’s true for any reason, and your attempt to show  why a large percentage of people don’t NEED it. That argument never works in the real world, because much of what we have, we don’t NEED. That doesn’t mean that we don’t find it convienient. Or desirable.

    Well, I would say then that you misunderstood my statement or perhaps that I misunderstood yours.  I was not arguing against quick charging itself (neither its usefulness for some nor its "necessity" as a feature to remain competative), but rather the "necessity" (driven by market demand) of apple bundling this purported quick charger in with the phone.  As you correctly asserted, Apple has already determined that the market demands that modern smartphones are capable of quick charging and I think we are all happy that such a feature is available for our eventual use should we desire (even if it requires an additional purchase to be taken advantage of).  The iPhone has, in fact, lots of capabilities that require additional equipment (at an additional cost) to utilize such as video out via Lightning, SD card input, etc.

    The point of the first two paragraphs in my statement was that, just like other capabilities requiring additional equipment, Apple bases the inclusion of said equipment into the packaging and the price of the iPhone on their perception of market demand (i.e. Would iPhone be perceived as incomplete/inadequate without the inclusion of XYZ equipment by a significant percentage of the market?).  My whole argument on the veracity of this rumor consisted of my opinion about market demand for quick charging not being high enough to justify the inclusion of a quick charger in every iPhone purchase, and my opinion that the technical specs of this supposed charger do not line up well with Apple's current portfolio.

    Only time will tell if my supposition that Apple will not include this 18W charger in with the purchase of a new iPhone in September was correct or not.  



    edited July 2018
  • Reply 33 of 33
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,801member
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    melgross said:
    mbenz1962 said:
    I'm not sure I buy this rumor.  If apple bundled an 18W charger with every iDevice, that would simplfiy their portfolio and bring some additional econimies of scale to help with the cost, but Apple just released a 30W USB-C charger.  The only devices listed as compatable are recent iDevices, but currently only iPads Pro can take advantage of the full 14.5V @ 2Amp charging capability.  I can't imagine that people buying an iPhone would get an 18W charger and people buying an iPad wouldn't.  So, Apple would either have to sunset the 12W charger for the whole iPad line and hope there is a signifficant enough upsell rate for the market of Pro buyers (who would be receiving an 18W charger) to justify the engineering of the 30W charger just released, or Apple will bundle the 18W with the iPhone and normal iPad and the 30W with the new iPads pro. Both seem like an unusual proposition.
    Apple has to do something. Maybe they will bundle the 30 watt with the iPad Pro. There’s just no excuse to be giving a vastly underpowered charger. That holds for the iPad Pro 12.9” in particular. My 29 watt Macbook charger charges both my 7+ and my iPad Pro 12.9” much faster.

    I'm not sure that I agree.  Faster charging is a nice feature, but it isn't really needed for a large percentage of people.  Professionals or people who are always on the go (business travelers, doctors, wait staff, etc.) certainly benefit as they are heavily using and depending on their devices and additionally may frequently have a limited time to charge a device during the day and need to maximize the charging during that limited time-frame.  


    The devices work fine with the included chargers for overnight charging which serves the general population adequately.  I travel occasionally for work and as often as possible for pleasure and I have tried mentally to justify the ~$70 price of the new 30W charger and USB-C to lightning cable for those times when I want to juice up ~20% in 15 min and, to be honest, I have only had a handful of times that I would have benefited.  Most of the time my battery lasts the whole day and the times when I have had long enough to plug in and access to an outlet where a quick charger would help out are pretty sparse.  I find a portable power bank suits my needs better as I don't need access to an outlet and can remain on the move.  


    If this charger was 10W or even 12W I might believe it because then they could replace the current 5W and 12W chargers with a more compact design and still leave room for the new 30W.  This would offer a benefit to those iPhone buyers that want/need faster charging and reducing the size of the 12W wall wart for the iPad buyers.  To be honest, the capacity of this charger kind of blows the whole use case as current iPhones can't take advantage of the full capacity and it is just too close to the 30W for the 30W to remain an attractive purchase.  The only thing I could imagine this being used for is bundling with the AirPower mat.  Even then I would imagine Apple would go with the 30W to allow enough capacity for the eventual transition to 15W charging in the Qi 1.2 standard.


    Look, it’s a done deal, so there’s no point in coming out with statements as to why it isn’t necessary. For two years now, Apple’s phones have been capable of charging with 15 Watts. There’s nothing you can do to turn the clock back. Now, it’s just a matter of them producing chargers that will allow all of their customers to take advantage of that. And yes, I’d bet that almost everyone wants this quicker charging. I sure do. I don’t know anyone who would say no.

    convoluted arguments, or not, you’re behind the 8 ball here.
    I actually don't have "a dog in this fight".  If this 18W charger is indeed released as a bundle item with iPhones I'd be surprised, but pleasantly so, as no one is going to say, "I prefer slower charging".  I'm only pointing out for the sake of discussion the reasons that this rumor seems to me to be false, and I sure didn't do it in a convoluted way.
    As for your assertion that "it's a done deal", I guess we'll see in September.  "The proof is of the pudding is in the eating", as they say...
    The done deal is the availability of quick charging in the phones, and iPads. The chargers are just to enable that feature for everyone without requiring, as now, that they buy an additional charger at a high price.
    Your convoluted argument was in saying that most people don’t need quick charging, and trying to give reasons why. That’s convoluted, because there’s no reason to believe it’s true for any reason, and your attempt to show  why a large percentage of people don’t NEED it. That argument never works in the real world, because much of what we have, we don’t NEED. That doesn’t mean that we don’t find it convienient. Or desirable.

    Well, I would say then that you misunderstood my statement or perhaps that I misunderstood yours.  I was not arguing against quick charging itself (neither its usefulness for some nor its "necessity" as a feature to remain competative), but rather the "necessity" (driven by market demand) of apple bundling this purported quick charger in with the phone.  As you correctly asserted, Apple has already determined that the market demands that modern smartphones are capable of quick charging and I think we are all happy that such a feature is available for our eventual use should we desire (even if it requires an additional purchase to be taken advantage of).  The iPhone has, in fact, lots of capabilities that require additional equipment (at an additional cost) to utilize such as video out via Lightning, SD card input, etc.

    The point of the first two paragraphs in my statement was that, just like other capabilities requiring additional equipment, Apple bases the inclusion of said equipment into the packaging and the price of the iPhone on their perception of market demand (i.e. Would iPhone be perceived as incomplete/inadequate without the inclusion of XYZ equipment by a significant percentage of the market?).  My whole argument on the veracity of this rumor consisted of my opinion about market demand for quick charging not being high enough to justify the inclusion of a quick charger in every iPhone purchase, and my opinion that the technical specs of this supposed charger do not line up well with Apple's current portfolio.

    Only time will tell if my supposition that Apple will not include this 18W charger in with the purchase of a new iPhone in September was correct or not.  



    While we don’t know for certain whether these chargers are real, there is good reason to believe they are.

    as for economic value, it would be far cheaper to include one in the box, than to require everyone who wants one (likely the majority) to purchase it separately . As a manufacturer of electronics some time ago, I know the cost differential.

    one would be the separate packaging cost. Then the extra cable, purchased separately. These costs alone add a great deal to the price. If a charger like this would cost $29, a reasonable assumption, without cable, which would be $19-29 more, depending on length, that would be an imposition on every customer. However, packaging it with the device, and including the USB C cable instead of the usb 3 cable, would cost far less to Apple. Possibly just $25 for the whole thing, instead of $15, as what I’m reading the cost to Apple is with the current charger and cable.

    it simply makes no sense to get a large portion of the customer base ticked off because they now have to pay more for the charger/cable. Apple can afford the $10 extra cost for the purpose of keeping its customers happy.
Sign In or Register to comment.