This new machine is everything I wished for! More RAM! More cores! More storage! T2! New keyboard! Yay!
Now the problem is realizing that my wish list costs more than the income it will earn justifies paying. Apparently my imagination doesn't understand that stuff costs money.
Still, it's mostly good news. It's nice to see the cost of the RAM upgrade is within reason. Still more than OWC, but not so much more as to instil rage.
Obviously the solution is to drastically increase income... problem solved!
Voting is now closed, Ladies and Gentlemen. We have a winner in the "Best Post of the Thread" contest!
This new machine is everything I wished for! More RAM! More cores! More storage! T2! New keyboard! Yay!
Now the problem is realizing that my wish list costs more than the income it will earn justifies paying. Apparently my imagination doesn't understand that stuff costs money.
Still, it's mostly good news. It's nice to see the cost of the RAM upgrade is within reason. Still more than OWC, but not so much more as to instil rage.
Obviously the solution is to drastically increase income... problem solved!
"You know, it occurs to me you could solve all your problems by obtaining more money."
Perhaps you require only 46.9% of your after-tax income and have some cash stashed in the hollowed out buttocks of a superhero action figure who shall remain nameless for his own protection... or HER own protection?
What a stupid thing Apple did. My heart almost stop when I read the function key Macbook Pro was not updated... Are you in sain ??? You were suppose to have completely remove the mistake made in past of implementing useless touch strip.
It’s insane and it’s called a Touch Bar. Learn how to spell.
What's a difference ? touch bar or strip or stupid OLED strip or whatever is called !!! To me and millions Macbook Pro users, it is useless. I rather have cheaper or other upgrade than touch bar.
No it is not a stupid OLED strip. It is a complete subsystem including Touch ID, Apple Pay, T2 chip, the Facetime camera... A stupid PC laptop’s camera may be remotely hacked and seized, Facetime camera not, because it is securely operated by the T2 chip.
The main point he was trying to get across was that it would be nice to have an option without the considerable added expense those elements carry. For the 15" model you will get them whether you need them or not and now, even the 2015 options have been retired.
I think this update is a 'Yikes' type machine with some newer elements from the true future model brought forward (like the keyboard).
Well if it comes with 8th gen Intel 16 GB RAM and "4 usb-c ports" I'll take it...
That’s just what they would do, isn’t it? Apple will put 4 USB-C ports on the new Mac Mini. Not Thunderbolt 3, just USB-C. And then they won’t be able to sell their new standalone display to Mac Mini users.
When the new MacBooks came out everyone was complaining about the lack of a 32GB option - I wonder how many people will actually shell out $6k for a laptop with 32GB of RAM
You don’t have to. It’s $400 for the upgrade.
Sure. When you wrote “$400 for the upgrade” though, you didn’t feel a tiny weeny bit of outrage? It is, btw, AUD$640 in my country. For an extra 16GB of RAM!*
I have come to believe Cook is a Mac hater. his behaviour and actions implies this is true. The future in Cook world is iOS. And no doubt to demonstrably ‘prove’ hardly anyone actually wanted 32GB of RAM, he made the upgrade price so egrariously offensive only the most desperate die hard could invent a reason to justify it.
* there is always a faint and unrealistic hope it is a typo and an extra zero ended up on the upgrade price.
No, I don’t. Because every computer maker charges much higher prices for memory that what you can buy that memory for elsewhere. When Apple, or some other computer maker puts memory on their machine, they are putting the entire machine under warranty. If you could add memory yourself, it’s not. You have to go to the place you bought it from. I remember that we used to, and really, still do, remove memory we added to a machine, whether a Mac, or a Dell, or whatever, before we took the machine for repair. Otherwise, they would remove the memory, and you’d be lucky to get it back.
would I like to see the memory price lower? Of course! But that’s not really the point.
I have come to believe Cook is a Mac hater. his behaviour implies this is true. The future in Cook world is iOS. And no doubt to demonstrably ‘prove’ hardly anyone actually wanted 32GB of RAM, he made the upgrade price so egrariously offensive only the most desperate die hard could invent a reason to justify it.
Certainly Cook doesn’t like the Mac. I can’t see how anyone could question that. The RAM, by the way, is $100 more than its stick variant (commence to arguing about whether the cost of engineering the soldered variant it is that expensive), but that’s also on top of the 16GB price (built into the price of the computer). So call it ~$250 more than a bare system.
You guys are backwards.
right before Jobs came back to Apple, he was asked about what he would do if he was running Apple again. His answer? “I would milk the Mac for all it was worth, then I’d go on to the next big thing.” I think that’s an exact quote. People love to “blame “ Cook for something that was what Jobs had in mind. Remember who came out with the iPhone and iPad. It wasn’t Cook.
When the new MacBooks came out everyone was complaining about the lack of a 32GB option - I wonder how many people will actually shell out $6k for a laptop with 32GB of RAM
That's only if you max out everything. 32 GiB RAM is a $400 up charge and I think available for all 15" configurations.
Yeah - I just looked at Apple's web site. A 15" MacBook Pro with the slower, 2.6GHz processor and 32GB RAM starts at $3200. That's a big chunk of cash but a far cry from $6700. The 4TB SSD alone adds $3200 to the price! Isn't that what the USB C port was supposed to be for?
You don’t have to buy the 4TB SSD. Yes, it’s a good 4 times faster than external SSDs, but if you don’t need it, then don’t complain.
but video editing is much faster when you can put the entire project into a very fast memory system. So for professional editing, yes, it’s a need for some. The rest can hang an external TB 3 drive on.
When the new MacBooks came out everyone was complaining about the lack of a 32GB option - I wonder how many people will actually shell out $6k for a laptop with 32GB of RAM
That's only if you max out everything. 32 GiB RAM is a $400 up charge and I think available for all 15" configurations.
Yeah - I just looked at Apple's web site. A 15" MacBook Pro with the slower, 2.6GHz processor and 32GB RAM starts at $3200. That's a big chunk of cash but a far cry from $6700. The 4TB SSD alone adds $3200 to the price! Isn't that what the USB C port was supposed to be for?
And they start at 256 GB on the 15", and have a range of 128 GB to 2 TB on the 13". I wonder if this is the largest magnitude of Mac storage ever available from Apple for a single product type. Both have a magnitude of 5 over their starting capacity.
The iMac Pro, for example, only has a magnitude of 2 with a range of 1 TB to 4 TB SSDs. Both the iMac Pro and the 15" MBP have the same maximum storage capacity. That might be a first, too.
PS: Can I use magnitude to mean doubling here?
Well, you know that a magnitude is ten times. One magnitude larger SSD from 1TB would be a 10TB drive.
What a stupid thing Apple did. My heart almost stop when I read the function key Macbook Pro was not updated... Are you in sain ??? You were suppose to have completely remove the mistake made in past of implementing useless touch strip.
It’s insane and it’s called a Touch Bar. Learn how to spell.
What's a difference ? touch bar or strip or stupid OLED strip or whatever is called !!! To me and millions Macbook Pro users, it is useless. I rather have cheaper or other upgrade than touch bar.
No it is not a stupid OLED strip. It is a complete subsystem including Touch ID, Apple Pay, T2 chip, the Facetime camera... A stupid PC laptop’s camera may be remotely hacked and seized, Facetime camera not, because it is securely operated by the T2 chip.
The main point he was trying to get across was that it would be nice to have an option without the considerable added expense those elements carry. For the 15" model you will get them whether you need them or not and now, even the 2015 options have been retired.
I think this update is a 'Yikes' type machine with some newer elements from the true future model brought forward (like the keyboard).
I remember very well the reaction to the first Mac 128. There was outrage in the PC DOS community. It took until Windows 3.0, and then, soon after, for the network version 3.1, before much of that outrage subsided. Nothing that Apple did was considered to be good.
well, I see the same thing here every time a new interface comes out. I’m not impressed by the negative people out there, because it’s just a bunch of small minds, that can’t get over the fact that things change, and that if they don’t change too, they will be left behind. To them, new things are things to be afraid of, and so they denigrate them.
while the Touch Bar isn’t nearly as dramatic a change as MacOS was, it’s still a change that some people don’t want to use, or get used to. Like everything new in this area, it will take time for most developers to learn how to use it well. It will take some users time too. Apple will improve it over the years, and has already broadened the use model over what it was at first, which is the way Apple always does things.
in a few years, all the controversy will have died down, and a few years later, most people won’t even be aware that there was a controversy. That’s history repeating itself.
Oh again, No USB, No Magsafe, No SD card???????? Can't upgrade
Not again! This theme is getting so old.
The machine has FOUR USB ports! Or four Thunderbolt ports! Or four Firewire ports! Or Four HDMI ports! Or four ethernet ports! Or any combination of those and others! Or four places to connect a multiport adapter that allows me to connect my iLok, Eucon, power, and external monitor with ONE reversible connector! Why on Earth would anyone want to go back to the old paradigm of only one function per port?
As for Magsafe, you don't need it! If the power cord gets yanked, as mine does repeatedly by excited dogs tearing around the house, the connector pops out just like the old Magsafe did, but I get the advantages of choosing where it connects, varied sources of power, and transitioning towards a universal standard for powering ALL my devices! Plus if the connector frays, I replace a cheap cable instead of an expensive power supply. Plus plus if you really want a magnetic connector for some reason, you can BUY one!
It obviously doesn't matter to me whether you choose to buy the current iteration or not, but please stop complaining that your sweetie done did you wrong. The inconvenience of replacing a few cables and carrying a single USB-A-to-C adapter for a while is absolutely trivial compared to the flexibility and utility we gain.
Just new to the 2017 MBP (upgraded from a 2011 MBP), and I am fully in agreement. Purchased three adapters-or-hubs from Amazon, and am set (one multifunction 7 port hub for the office, one travel adapter with HDMI & VGA video & USB 3 (A) connector, and a couple of USB-C-to-A single adapters. This machine can connect to literally everything, and at the highest speeds those peripherals themselves support.
When I purchase a machine in 2018, I want it more future proof since I hold them for 5-7 years, not backwards compatible with 20 year old connectors. New high performance peripherals are coming out with USB-C/TB native connectivity.
What a stupid thing Apple did. My heart almost stop when I read the function key Macbook Pro was not updated... Are you in sain ??? You were suppose to have completely remove the mistake made in past of implementing useless touch strip.
It’s insane and it’s called a Touch Bar. Learn how to spell.
What's a difference ? touch bar or strip or stupid OLED strip or whatever is called !!! To me and millions Macbook Pro users, it is useless. I rather have cheaper or other upgrade than touch bar.
No it is not a stupid OLED strip. It is a complete subsystem including Touch ID, Apple Pay, T2 chip, the Facetime camera... A stupid PC laptop’s camera may be remotely hacked and seized, Facetime camera not, because it is securely operated by the T2 chip.
The main point he was trying to get across was that it would be nice to have an option without the considerable added expense those elements carry. For the 15" model you will get them whether you need them or not and now, even the 2015 options have been retired.
I think this update is a 'Yikes' type machine with some newer elements from the true future model brought forward (like the keyboard).
I remember very well the reaction to the first Mac 128. There was outrage in the PC DOS community. It took until Windows 3.0, and then, soon after, for the network version 3.1, before much of that outrage subsided. Nothing that Apple did was considered to be good.
well, I see the same thing here every time a new interface comes out. I’m not impressed by the negative people out there, because it’s just a bunch of small minds, that can’t get over the fact that things change, and that if they don’t change too, they will be left behind. To them, new things are things to be afraid of, and so they denigrate them.
while the Touch Bar isn’t nearly as dramatic a change as MacOS was, it’s still a change that some people don’t want to use, or get used to. Like everything new in this area, it will take time for most developers to learn how to use it well. It will take some users time too. Apple will improve it over the years, and has already broadened the use model over what it was at first, which is the way Apple always does things.
in a few years, all the controversy will have died down, and a few years later, most people won’t even be aware that there was a controversy. That’s history repeating itself.
The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.
On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone.
Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).
I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
Damn you Apple. Why did you put in 32GB? What will all the pretend haters who claim they run multiple VMs whine about now?
It’s 2018 now. Everyone knows a machine can’t be “Pro” unless it ships with 64GB.
What fools you all are. 128GB is the new PRO standard. Don't mind the 2 hours of battery life!
EXCUSE me.
256GB is the actual Pro standard. And don't tell me you're a professional unless you have any processors less than 18 cores and have at least 7 VM instances running 24/7.
That's it? That's all you got? A real PRO has a server farm with real cows to provide milk!
They did not update the non-touch bar 13 models... Kind of ridiculous to keep selling intel 7th gen and 8th gen models side-by-side.
Well at least its saving me the urge to spend $1300. Better luck next year.
I think Touch ID (T-1 chip) is essential with so many cameras everywhere to capture you typing in your password, plus the T-2 chip which takes security to a whole new level.
Doesn't change the fact that they could have put 8th gen intel chips (and at the very least the new keyboards, BT5.0, Truetone, "hey-siri") into the base 13-inch model. A $1800 price of entry for a "current-gen" laptop is a bit much, even for apple.
A $300 difference isn't really a deal breaker, especially with 8th Gen, double the ports and TouchID (T-1) and Hey Siri (T-2Chip). Even if they stuck the 8th Gen in and dropped the touch bar and kept TouchID (which should be standard) and Hey Siri (T-2Chip), you're probably only looking at $150 difference or something like that, maybe only $100.
Just doesn't seem wroth crying about unless you're hot for the 128MB SSD on the very low end.
Some of the complaints I’m seeing from people like Marco Arment are ridiculous and disingenuous. Complain about pricing, fine. But expecting Apple to basically revert back to the 2015/2012 design? Marco knows damn good and well Apple isn’t going to abandon a new design only a couple years after introducing it and certainly isn’t going to re-introduce ports that were removed. Also there is no evidence the keyboard issue was because of the butterfly design (John Gruber claims he heard it was due to a specific metal parts supplier issue) so people complaining about that are being disingenuous too. Especially considering most of them hated it to begin with. IMO the only valid complaints would be pricing and the non-TB model not being updated.
I think Marco is just hating for the sake of it. I know he says he criticizes because he loves Apple and I believe that, but he also is being unreasonably obtuse about this issue.
1. Apple says it’s a tiny fraction of their customer base, and they are the ones with the data.
Actually they used "small" rather than tiny or miniscule or whatever didn't they? Small could be 6%. Or 10%. Or 15%. Apple is not going to get very specific for obvious legal reasons.
EDIT: Another Apple fan site put it this way: "In the absence of hard data, we have only anecdotal evidence to go on, but a lot of MacBook Pro owners are reporting the sticky keys issue. I think Apple’s careful phrasing effectively admits this. It doesn’t say the percentage is ‘microscopic,’ ‘tiny’ or any other adjective that would suggest something in the 1-2% range; it says ‘small,’ which could arguably be anywhere in the high single-digits to low double-digits... ...as John Gruber said earlier, Apple isn’t going to admit to a fix. If the company says that it’s improved the reliability of the keyboard, that’s an admission that there’s a problem with earlier generations – and that would open the floodgates to returns and lawsuits."
New high performance peripherals are coming out with USB-C/TB native connectivity.
Even old, existing peripherals are a non-issue. For example, the external drive I travel with had a cable with a USB-A connector on the computer end. I replaced the cable with a USB-C version for five or six bucks. Same with the cable for our camera (which negates the need for a card slot).
The one and only enduring inconvenience is other people's flash drives. For that, and/or any other unexpected USB-A interface, I carry a single USB-A to C adapter. I very rarely need to use it.
What a stupid thing Apple did. My heart almost stop when I read the function key Macbook Pro was not updated... Are you in sain ??? You were suppose to have completely remove the mistake made in past of implementing useless touch strip.
It’s insane and it’s called a Touch Bar. Learn how to spell.
What's a difference ? touch bar or strip or stupid OLED strip or whatever is called !!! To me and millions Macbook Pro users, it is useless. I rather have cheaper or other upgrade than touch bar.
No it is not a stupid OLED strip. It is a complete subsystem including Touch ID, Apple Pay, T2 chip, the Facetime camera... A stupid PC laptop’s camera may be remotely hacked and seized, Facetime camera not, because it is securely operated by the T2 chip.
The main point he was trying to get across was that it would be nice to have an option without the considerable added expense those elements carry. For the 15" model you will get them whether you need them or not and now, even the 2015 options have been retired.
I think this update is a 'Yikes' type machine with some newer elements from the true future model brought forward (like the keyboard).
I remember very well the reaction to the first Mac 128. There was outrage in the PC DOS community. It took until Windows 3.0, and then, soon after, for the network version 3.1, before much of that outrage subsided. Nothing that Apple did was considered to be good.
well, I see the same thing here every time a new interface comes out. I’m not impressed by the negative people out there, because it’s just a bunch of small minds, that can’t get over the fact that things change, and that if they don’t change too, they will be left behind. To them, new things are things to be afraid of, and so they denigrate them.
while the Touch Bar isn’t nearly as dramatic a change as MacOS was, it’s still a change that some people don’t want to use, or get used to. Like everything new in this area, it will take time for most developers to learn how to use it well. It will take some users time too. Apple will improve it over the years, and has already broadened the use model over what it was at first, which is the way Apple always does things.
in a few years, all the controversy will have died down, and a few years later, most people won’t even be aware that there was a controversy. That’s history repeating itself.
The controversy shouldn't be necessary. The 13" MBP gives users an option. The 15" doesn't - but it could.
On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone.
Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).
I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
A lot of developers have picked up on it. But it takes years to get fully utilized.
Oh again, No USB, No Magsafe, No SD card???????? Can't upgrade
Well, TB ports are also USB ports, so you’ve got that. I know you’re kidding here, but people don’t seem to understand that.
there is a company that makes a MagSafe type of connector. I don’t remember who that is, but I read about in a couple of places several months ago.
Shocking isn't it? TB-3 is not only USB-C but it's backward compatible with USB-A, just use a different cable and no it's not a dongle. Seriously, a new cable is $5.
I'd rather have the TB-3/USB ports and change out a few $5 cables, than have a shortage of USB-C ports in the future.
Plus, with a dock over TB-3 you can run everything imaginable over a single cable, to include power, USB (A/B/C), ethernet, monitor (HDMI, Display Port), card reader and external GPU. Come home, plug in one cable and boom, it's like a desktop.
Comments
Perhaps you require only 46.9% of your after-tax income and have some cash stashed in the hollowed out buttocks of a superhero action figure who shall remain nameless for his own protection... or HER own protection?
I think this update is a 'Yikes' type machine with some newer elements from the true future model brought forward (like the keyboard).
would I like to see the memory price lower? Of course! But that’s not really the point.
right before Jobs came back to Apple, he was asked about what he would do if he was running Apple again. His answer? “I would milk the Mac for all it was worth, then I’d go on to the next big thing.” I think that’s an exact quote. People love to “blame “ Cook for something that was what Jobs had in mind. Remember who came out with the iPhone and iPad. It wasn’t Cook.
but video editing is much faster when you can put the entire project into a very fast memory system. So for professional editing, yes, it’s a need for some. The rest can hang an external TB 3 drive on.
Well, you know that a magnitude is ten times. One magnitude larger SSD from 1TB would be a 10TB drive.
there is a company that makes a MagSafe type of connector. I don’t remember who that is, but I read about in a couple of places several months ago.
well, I see the same thing here every time a new interface comes out. I’m not impressed by the negative people out there, because it’s just a bunch of small minds, that can’t get over the fact that things change, and that if they don’t change too, they will be left behind. To them, new things are things to be afraid of, and so they denigrate them.
while the Touch Bar isn’t nearly as dramatic a change as MacOS was, it’s still a change that some people don’t want to use, or get used to. Like everything new in this area, it will take time for most developers to learn how to use it well. It will take some users time too. Apple will improve it over the years, and has already broadened the use model over what it was at first, which is the way Apple always does things.
in a few years, all the controversy will have died down, and a few years later, most people won’t even be aware that there was a controversy. That’s history repeating itself.
When I purchase a machine in 2018, I want it more future proof since I hold them for 5-7 years, not backwards compatible with 20 year old connectors. New high performance peripherals are coming out with USB-C/TB native connectivity.
On top of that, the owners of late 2016 TB haven't really seen an effective return on the TB cost. The fact that developers haven't really picked up on it is of little consolation to those users who put big money down on a machine nearly two years ago. It's ok to be a willing early adopter by choice but after waiting for the refresh, those who wanted a 'new' 15" MBP found themselves out of luck. It was the TB or a 2015 model. Now, that option has gone.
Also, we mustn't forget that not all technologies stick around for long or if they do, they can cause headaches down the line (ADC comes to mind).
I'm still not convinced TB will take off anyway. I'm not anti TB but would rather not have to pay for something that I can easily live without.
EDIT: Another Apple fan site put it this way:
"In the absence of hard data, we have only anecdotal evidence to go on, but a lot of MacBook Pro owners are reporting the sticky keys issue. I think Apple’s careful phrasing effectively admits this. It doesn’t say the percentage is ‘microscopic,’ ‘tiny’ or any other adjective that would suggest something in the 1-2% range; it says ‘small,’ which could arguably be anywhere in the high single-digits to low double-digits...
...as John Gruber said earlier, Apple isn’t going to admit to a fix. If the company says that it’s improved the reliability of the keyboard, that’s an admission that there’s a problem with earlier generations – and that would open the floodgates to returns and lawsuits."
Bingo! Well put.
Even old, existing peripherals are a non-issue. For example, the external drive I travel with had a cable with a USB-A connector on the computer end. I replaced the cable with a USB-C version for five or six bucks. Same with the cable for our camera (which negates the need for a card slot).
The one and only enduring inconvenience is other people's flash drives. For that, and/or any other unexpected USB-A interface, I carry a single USB-A to C adapter. I very rarely need to use it.