I am an Indian and I can tell you why Apple will never reach a double digit Market Share in India.
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3. When I can buy a Monster with 3 GB RAM, massive 5.5 Inch screen, 32GB Internal and 128GB expandable storage, carved out of high grade Aluminium, having the latest processor and running the latest Nougat or Oreo at 1/3rd the Price(Rs 8000 or $116) of an Iphone(Rs 25000 or $365), Why should I buy an iphone which has 1GB Ram, is almost 3 years old, 4.7" screen with 32GB Storage and No external Storage at all?
Oh, specs! Sorry, but you don’t understand Apple at all or the product it’s selling. Hint, it has almost nothing to do with spec wars or keeping up with the Jones’ RAM.
Apple, and everyone else is dependent on specs. You will never get away from that and trying to argue that having less RAM than others somehow supports your argument doesn't change anything.
In this particular case, a few valid specs were mentioned. There is no getting away from screensize for example. That was the one spec that gave a shot in the arm to the iPhone.
Nonsense. First I never claimed that Apple products don’t have specs, I said that trying to argue a product is better because it has better specs is stupid and ignorant of Apple product strategy and its value incentive. Not being an Apple guy you continue to demonstrate that you fail to grasp this.
Case in point, those chinese knockoffs you’re fond of need more RAM than an iPhone does to achieve the same end user experience.
Perhaps you wanted to say that. What you said was this:
"Oh, specs! Sorry, but you don’t understand Apple at all or the product it’s selling. Hint, it has almost nothing to do with spec wars or keeping up with the Jones’ RAM."
A bit of fleshing out might have made things clearer but you are conveniently forgetting that specs (and benchmarks) make the smartphone world go round for everyone, including Apple. And not only phones of course.
Apple product presentations are full of specifications.
This is a critical issue as well. When Apple starts opening up actual Apple Stores in India with the accompanying dedication to product support and service it will see increased sales and multiplier effect.
This is a critical issue as well. When Apple starts opening up actual Apple Stores in India with the accompanying dedication to product support and service it will see increased sales and multiplier effect.
"the market is so miniscule"? India has a huge, growing middle class, most highly educated and tech savvy. They could afford an iPhone if they wanted. But for some reason Apple is not attractive enough for this market.
One of India's biggest exports is its highly educated youth. Ex-pat Indians are everywhere in the finance, hospitality and tech world.
This is what you get from a protectionist mindset, which India has had since 1949. The wealthy got wealthier, and the rest barely survive. The educated leave town. Modi seems to be trying to reshape the government's mindset and is having some success because A/ expats returning to India with attitudes developed in free markets, and B/ the shrinking of the old guard through retirement and age-related death.
This is what you get from a protectionist mindset, which India has had since 1949. The wealthy got wealthier, and the rest barely survive. The educated leave town. Modi seems to be trying to reshape the government's mindset and is having some success because A/ expats returning to India with attitudes developed in free markets, and B/ the shrinking of the old guard through retirement and age-related death.
I agree 100%. India has always had an economic model that was akin to import subsidized industrialization (ISI). While this worked early on, it is now time to open up and allow increased competition. The model in place has lead to a few very large conglomerates that control large market segments i.e. Tata Group, Birla Group, Reliance Industries etc. They are now so large that they can control economic policy by proxy and it is in their interest to maintain their oligopolistic positions. At the same time it is important to note that a large part of India's population is still rural. Economic policy must protect small mom and pop businesses while increasing competition for big players. It's a delicate balance. The last time I visited I noticed a lot of Starbucks which were partnered with Tata Group (Tata Starbucks). I found it ridiculous that a coffee company needed to partner with a large conglomerate to operate in India. The market is so large for coffee and $5 coffees are out of reach for a majority who generally buy their tea/coffee by roadside purveyors or at home. It's irritating to say the least.
Apple product presentations are full of specifications.
Of course they are. Assuming you've watched an actual Apple presentation, they are the least of the point.
Without the specs the rest has no foundation. They didn't just tell us the retina displays looked great. That isn't enough. They went into exactly why they were great with the numbers on what the human eye could perceive. They didn't tell us FaceID was the best out there for facial biometrics. They told us exactly how things were done, dot projectors and all.
They have to 'sell' the products. Specs very much help to do that, always will and are far from 'the least of the point'.
But specs also include the presence or absence of features. Something that is essential for many buyers. That could be something as basic as the size of the screen.
Apple product presentations are full of specifications.
Of course they are. Assuming you've watched an actual Apple presentation, they are the least of the point.
Without the specs the rest has no foundation. They didn't just tell us the retina displays looked great. That isn't enough. They went into exactly why they were great with the numbers on what the human eye could perceive. They didn't tell us FaceID was the best out there for facial biometrics. They told us exactly how things were done, dot projectors and all.
They have to 'sell' the products. Specs very much help to do that, always will and are far from 'the least of the point'.
But specs also include the presence or absence of features. Something that is essential for many buyers. That could be something as basic as the size of the screen.
You just proved the point of my post. And you betray your utter cluelessness about what matters to Apple (and its serious consumers).
Just go back -- if you care to actually learn something -- and look at the first time the retina display was brought up in an Apple presentation, by Steve Jobs. The "specs" that Jobs focuses on, other than for a brief reference to 326 ppi, is the "300 limit" of the human eye (and that's the only reason for mentioning 326).
Most of it focuses on the aesthetics of it all, using the simple, but brilliant example of what fonts look like wth retina v. non-retina.
This is a critical issue as well. When Apple starts opening up actual Apple Stores in India with the accompanying dedication to product support and service it will see increased sales and multiplier effect.
Aren't there actual Apple Stores there now?
Per my understanding not yet, they should be coming soon. The law required domestic manufacturing in order to open stores. It's the same with all brands. They are now manufacturing domestically so the retail planning/push should be under way. I don't know the exact details.
Apple product presentations are full of specifications.
Of course they are. Assuming you've watched an actual Apple presentation, they are the least of the point.
Without the specs the rest has no foundation. They didn't just tell us the retina displays looked great. That isn't enough. They went into exactly why they were great with the numbers on what the human eye could perceive. They didn't tell us FaceID was the best out there for facial biometrics. They told us exactly how things were done, dot projectors and all.
They have to 'sell' the products. Specs very much help to do that, always will and are far from 'the least of the point'.
But specs also include the presence or absence of features. Something that is essential for many buyers. That could be something as basic as the size of the screen.
You just proved the point of my post. And you betray your utter cluelessness about what matters to Apple (and its serious consumers).
Just go back -- if you care to actually learn something -- and look at the first time the retina display was brought up in an Apple presentation, by Steve Jobs. The "specs" that Jobs focuses on, other than for a brief reference to 326 ppi, is the "300 limit" of the human eye (and that's the only reason for mentioning 326).
Most of it focuses on the aesthetics of it all, using the simple, but brilliant example of what fonts look like wth retina v. non-retina.
But there you have it: 326ppi. The limit of the human eye etc. The clarity of the text plays directly off that spec as do comparisons. As did all the rest. That presentation could not exist without the specs. It is the foundation of the 'sale'. The key piece of information that has to reach the viewer.
You will rarely see Apple present a spec based feature without actually mentioning the spec itself.
It's very much part of the deal. It's what users need (even if they don't understand what they really mean).
It is hardly necessary to say exactly how much thinner or lighter a machine is when compared to a previous model but they give that information down to the gram and millimeter.
Apple product presentations are full of specifications.
Of course they are. Assuming you've watched an actual Apple presentation, they are the least of the point.
Without the specs the rest has no foundation. They didn't just tell us the retina displays looked great. That isn't enough. They went into exactly why they were great with the numbers on what the human eye could perceive. They didn't tell us FaceID was the best out there for facial biometrics. They told us exactly how things were done, dot projectors and all.
They have to 'sell' the products. Specs very much help to do that, always will and are far from 'the least of the point'.
But specs also include the presence or absence of features. Something that is essential for many buyers. That could be something as basic as the size of the screen.
You just proved the point of my post. And you betray your utter cluelessness about what matters to Apple (and its serious consumers).
Just go back -- if you care to actually learn something -- and look at the first time the retina display was brought up in an Apple presentation, by Steve Jobs. The "specs" that Jobs focuses on, other than for a brief reference to 326 ppi, is the "300 limit" of the human eye (and that's the only reason for mentioning 326).
Most of it focuses on the aesthetics of it all, using the simple, but brilliant example of what fonts look like wth retina v. non-retina.
But there you have it: 326ppi. The limit of the human eye etc. The clarity of the text plays directly off that spec as do comparisons. As did all the rest. That presentation could not exist without the specs. It is the foundation of the 'sale'. The key piece of information that has to reach the viewer.
You will rarely see Apple present a spec based feature without actually mentioning the spec itself.
It's very much part of the deal. It's what users need (even if they don't understand what they really mean).
It is hardly necessary to say exactly how much thinner or lighter a machine is when compared to a previous model but they give that information down to the gram and millimeter.
Apple product presentations are full of specifications.
Of course they are. Assuming you've watched an actual Apple presentation, they are the least of the point.
Without the specs the rest has no foundation. They didn't just tell us the retina displays looked great. That isn't enough. They went into exactly why they were great with the numbers on what the human eye could perceive. They didn't tell us FaceID was the best out there for facial biometrics. They told us exactly how things were done, dot projectors and all.
They have to 'sell' the products. Specs very much help to do that, always will and are far from 'the least of the point'.
But specs also include the presence or absence of features. Something that is essential for many buyers. That could be something as basic as the size of the screen.
You just proved the point of my post. And you betray your utter cluelessness about what matters to Apple (and its serious consumers).
Just go back -- if you care to actually learn something -- and look at the first time the retina display was brought up in an Apple presentation, by Steve Jobs. The "specs" that Jobs focuses on, other than for a brief reference to 326 ppi, is the "300 limit" of the human eye (and that's the only reason for mentioning 326).
Most of it focuses on the aesthetics of it all, using the simple, but brilliant example of what fonts look like wth retina v. non-retina.
But there you have it: 326ppi. The limit of the human eye etc. The clarity of the text plays directly off that spec as do comparisons. As did all the rest. That presentation could not exist without the specs. It is the foundation of the 'sale'. The key piece of information that has to reach the viewer.
You will rarely see Apple present a spec based feature without actually mentioning the spec itself.
It's very much part of the deal. It's what users need (even if they don't understand what they really mean).
It is hardly necessary to say exactly how much thinner or lighter a machine is when compared to a previous model but they give that information down to the gram and millimeter.
Clueless.
But it’s a free country, so knock yourself out.
More like deliberately obtuse. Avonb7 has an agenda, and there’s little room within it for acknowledging the difference between absolute specs and the technology behind delivering a targeted experience. It’s like saying a Cat D6 bulldozer always beats a Porsche because... more torque. Ignore him.
If Apple ever decides to compete solely on price, then there's the Indian market.
Looks like the restructuring is Apple enforcing the opposite. Local news reports that the departures are accompanied by black listing vendors for un-authorized discounts.
Apple product presentations are full of specifications.
Of course they are. Assuming you've watched an actual Apple presentation, they are the least of the point.
Without the specs the rest has no foundation. They didn't just tell us the retina displays looked great. That isn't enough. They went into exactly why they were great with the numbers on what the human eye could perceive. They didn't tell us FaceID was the best out there for facial biometrics. They told us exactly how things were done, dot projectors and all.
They have to 'sell' the products. Specs very much help to do that, always will and are far from 'the least of the point'.
But specs also include the presence or absence of features. Something that is essential for many buyers. That could be something as basic as the size of the screen.
You just proved the point of my post. And you betray your utter cluelessness about what matters to Apple (and its serious consumers).
Just go back -- if you care to actually learn something -- and look at the first time the retina display was brought up in an Apple presentation, by Steve Jobs. The "specs" that Jobs focuses on, other than for a brief reference to 326 ppi, is the "300 limit" of the human eye (and that's the only reason for mentioning 326).
Most of it focuses on the aesthetics of it all, using the simple, but brilliant example of what fonts look like wth retina v. non-retina.
But there you have it: 326ppi. The limit of the human eye etc. The clarity of the text plays directly off that spec as do comparisons. As did all the rest. That presentation could not exist without the specs. It is the foundation of the 'sale'. The key piece of information that has to reach the viewer.
You will rarely see Apple present a spec based feature without actually mentioning the spec itself.
It's very much part of the deal. It's what users need (even if they don't understand what they really mean).
It is hardly necessary to say exactly how much thinner or lighter a machine is when compared to a previous model but they give that information down to the gram and millimeter.
Clueless.
But it’s a free country, so knock yourself out.
More like deliberately obtuse. Avonb7 has an agenda, and there’s little room within it for acknowledging the difference between absolute specs and the technology behind delivering a targeted experience. It’s like saying a Cat D6 bulldozer always beats a Porsche because... more torque. Ignore him.
Clueless? Obtuse? Agenda?
No.
Go back to the beginning of the thread. 'Specs' (absolute or not) are key to selling. Key to presentations. Key in the mindset of all users (even for people who don't even understand them!).
Apple uses absolute specs in its presentations. The reference to ppi for retina displays was NOT a passing reference. It was the key takeaway from the 'sale'. It was used so that the mass media would pick up on that single aspect and reproduce it almost exactly as it was said and later written. It was used to convince people that the final result was better than previous offerings. Try finding media reports (even non-specialised media) that didn't make use of that reference. You would have been hard pressed to find any retail employee of the time not using that particular spec when pushing retina displays. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if employees were actually instructed to use the ppi and human eye references during their conversations with potential customers.
If Apple ever decides to compete solely on price, then there's the Indian market.
Well, that is not really the conclusion to draw from the evidence, is it? To me it seems the Indian market is more price sensitive, not because the interesting demographic can't afford a high end device, but because they do a more informed purchase based on need vs cost. We see the same in our app sales there.
Trying to break into a market that is not so heavily influenced by American trends and norms will be an interesting challenge for Apple.
I reckon India is a lost cause for Apple. They don’t have the obsession with prestige the Chinese do, nor currently the same level of disposable income. Apple is considered a prestigious company in some quarters. Maybe a few years down the line, when the Indian economy becomes comparable to that of China (those two countries are going to rule the roost in the future!) then maybe it’s economic environment will be more receptive to Apple.
More like deliberately obtuse. Avonb7 has an agenda, and there’s little room within it for acknowledging the difference between absolute specs and the technology behind delivering a targeted experience. It’s like saying a Cat D6 bulldozer always beats a Porsche because... more torque. Ignore him.
More like this is the reason you are o moderator on this site. And your comparison is simply asinine.
Comments
"Oh, specs! Sorry, but you don’t understand Apple at all or the product it’s selling. Hint, it has almost nothing to do with spec wars or keeping up with the Jones’ RAM."
A bit of fleshing out might have made things clearer but you are conveniently forgetting that specs (and benchmarks) make the smartphone world go round for everyone, including Apple. And not only phones of course.
Apple product presentations are full of specifications.
This is a critical issue as well. When Apple starts opening up actual Apple Stores in India with the accompanying dedication to product support and service it will see increased sales and multiplier effect.
EDIT:
Perhaps they never opened?
http://fortune.com/2016/05/16/apple-stores-india/
https://www.apple.com/in/buy/
This is what you get from a protectionist mindset, which India has had since 1949. The wealthy got wealthier, and the rest barely survive. The educated leave town. Modi seems to be trying to reshape the government's mindset and is having some success because A/ expats returning to India with attitudes developed in free markets, and B/ the shrinking of the old guard through retirement and age-related death.
They have to 'sell' the products. Specs very much help to do that, always will and are far from 'the least of the point'.
But specs also include the presence or absence of features. Something that is essential for many buyers. That could be something as basic as the size of the screen.
Just go back -- if you care to actually learn something -- and look at the first time the retina display was brought up in an Apple presentation, by Steve Jobs. The "specs" that Jobs focuses on, other than for a brief reference to 326 ppi, is the "300 limit" of the human eye (and that's the only reason for mentioning 326).
Most of it focuses on the aesthetics of it all, using the simple, but brilliant example of what fonts look like wth retina v. non-retina.
You will rarely see Apple present a spec based feature without actually mentioning the spec itself.
It's very much part of the deal. It's what users need (even if they don't understand what they really mean).
It is hardly necessary to say exactly how much thinner or lighter a machine is when compared to a previous model but they give that information down to the gram and millimeter.
But it’s a free country, so knock yourself out.
No.
Go back to the beginning of the thread. 'Specs' (absolute or not) are key to selling. Key to presentations. Key in the mindset of all users (even for people who don't even understand them!).
Apple uses absolute specs in its presentations. The reference to ppi for retina displays was NOT a passing reference. It was the key takeaway from the 'sale'. It was used so that the mass media would pick up on that single aspect and reproduce it almost exactly as it was said and later written. It was used to convince people that the final result was better than previous offerings. Try finding media reports (even non-specialised media) that didn't make use of that reference. You would have been hard pressed to find any retail employee of the time not using that particular spec when pushing retina displays. I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if employees were actually instructed to use the ppi and human eye references during their conversations with potential customers.
Here is a press release from the time:
https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2012/06/11Apple-Introduces-All-New-MacBook-Pro-with-Retina-Display/
Trying to break into a market that is not so heavily influenced by American trends and norms will be an interesting challenge for Apple.
Avon's arguments are very rational and on point, that's why you can't contest them in any way.
But it’s a free country, so knock yourself out.
And your comparison is simply asinine.