Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
Even including keyboard failures, the 2016 and 2017 MBP have a lower first-year failure rate than the 2015 MBP did. And, everything you're talking about, including the 2011, had a repair program.
If they wanted you to upgrade more frequently, they never would have implemented the program.
Look, I get that they're not making what you want them to make. Get what makes you happy!
Apple NEVER fixed [re-engineered] the root cause GPU problems on the 2011 MBPs, that is crystal clear from the articles I linked and they just swapped replacement logic boards, a band-aid but the problem still recurs with the same complete failure issues, happened on THREE logic boards for me. Pretty piss poor engineering responses on Apple's part! They NEVER properly addressed the issues, only pretended to placate people who's MBPs had the issue.
Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
Even including keyboard failures, the 2016 and 2017 MBP have a lower first-year failure rate than the 2015 MBP did. And, everything you're talking about, including the 2011, had a repair program.
If they wanted you to upgrade more frequently, they never would have implemented the program.
Look, I get that they're not making what you want them to make. Get what makes you happy!
Apple NEVER fixed [re-engineered] the root cause GPU problems on the 2011 MBPs, that is crystal clear from the articles I linked and they just swapped replacement logic boards, a band-aid but the problem still recurs with the same complete failure issues, happened on THREE logic boards for me. Pretty piss poor engineering responses on Apple's part! They NEVER properly addressed the issues, only pretended to placate people who's MBPs had the issue.
You're conflating issues. Look up why the failures were happening.
Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
Even including keyboard failures, the 2016 and 2017 MBP have a lower first-year failure rate than the 2015 MBP did. And, everything you're talking about, including the 2011, had a repair program.
If they wanted you to upgrade more frequently, they never would have implemented the program.
Look, I get that they're not making what you want them to make. Get what makes you happy!
Apple NEVER fixed [re-engineered] the root cause GPU problems on the 2011 MBPs, that is crystal clear from the articles I linked and they just swapped replacement logic boards, a band-aid but the problem still recurs with the same complete failure issues, happened on THREE logic boards for me. Pretty piss poor engineering responses on Apple's part! They NEVER properly addressed the issues, only pretended to placate people who's MBPs had the issue.
You're conflating issues. Look up why the failures were happening.
Your point being what? I provided all the information about the why in the links provided, those include:
* GPU chip heat issues * Improper adhesion of chip to board (solder) * Improper selection of appropriate thermal compound * Poor cooling system
Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
Even including keyboard failures, the 2016 and 2017 MBP have a lower first-year failure rate than the 2015 MBP did. And, everything you're talking about, including the 2011, had a repair program.
If they wanted you to upgrade more frequently, they never would have implemented the program.
Look, I get that they're not making what you want them to make. Get what makes you happy!
Apple NEVER fixed [re-engineered] the root cause GPU problems on the 2011 MBPs, that is crystal clear from the articles I linked and they just swapped replacement logic boards, a band-aid but the problem still recurs with the same complete failure issues, happened on THREE logic boards for me. Pretty piss poor engineering responses on Apple's part! They NEVER properly addressed the issues, only pretended to placate people who's MBPs had the issue.
You're conflating issues. Look up why the failures were happening.
Your point being what? I provided all the information about the why in the links provided, those include:
* GPU chip heat issues * Improper adhesion of chip to board (solder) * Improper selection of appropriate thermal compound * Poor cooling system
I guess my question is what precisely were you expecting to happen? It sucks that you had to deal with this but it worked out in the end, given that you were given a computer because of the multiple repairs. Your evidence presented doesn't support your conclusion.
Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
Even including keyboard failures, the 2016 and 2017 MBP have a lower first-year failure rate than the 2015 MBP did. And, everything you're talking about, including the 2011, had a repair program.
If they wanted you to upgrade more frequently, they never would have implemented the program.
Look, I get that they're not making what you want them to make. Get what makes you happy!
Apple NEVER fixed [re-engineered] the root cause GPU problems on the 2011 MBPs, that is crystal clear from the articles I linked and they just swapped replacement logic boards, a band-aid but the problem still recurs with the same complete failure issues, happened on THREE logic boards for me. Pretty piss poor engineering responses on Apple's part! They NEVER properly addressed the issues, only pretended to placate people who's MBPs had the issue.
You're conflating issues. Look up why the failures were happening.
Your point being what? I provided all the information about the why in the links provided, those include:
* GPU chip heat issues * Improper adhesion of chip to board (solder) * Improper selection of appropriate thermal compound * Poor cooling system
I guess my question is what precisely were you expecting to happen? It sucks that you had to deal with this but it worked out in the end, given that you were given a computer because of the multiple repairs. Your evidence presented doesn't support your conclusion.
I would expect Apple to provide an ACTUAL ENGINEERED FIX, not some half-hearted attempt to placate people with another time bomb!
It did NOT work out in the end, I have a dead MBP that Apple never fixed and now says they no longer have parts for. I had to buy another computer due to poor quality control, before I intended to.
The conclusion that the 2011 MBPs were poorly engineered and not subsequently fixed despite a logic board replacement program is very well supported by a litany of evidence. No idea what you are on about.
Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
Even including keyboard failures, the 2016 and 2017 MBP have a lower first-year failure rate than the 2015 MBP did. And, everything you're talking about, including the 2011, had a repair program.
If they wanted you to upgrade more frequently, they never would have implemented the program.
Look, I get that they're not making what you want them to make. Get what makes you happy!
Apple NEVER fixed [re-engineered] the root cause GPU problems on the 2011 MBPs, that is crystal clear from the articles I linked and they just swapped replacement logic boards, a band-aid but the problem still recurs with the same complete failure issues, happened on THREE logic boards for me. Pretty piss poor engineering responses on Apple's part! They NEVER properly addressed the issues, only pretended to placate people who's MBPs had the issue.
You're conflating issues. Look up why the failures were happening.
Your point being what? I provided all the information about the why in the links provided, those include:
* GPU chip heat issues * Improper adhesion of chip to board (solder) * Improper selection of appropriate thermal compound * Poor cooling system
I guess my question is what precisely were you expecting to happen? It sucks that you had to deal with this but it worked out in the end, given that you were given a computer because of the multiple repairs. Your evidence presented doesn't support your conclusion.
I would expect Apple to provide an ACTUAL ENGINEERED FIX, not some half-hearted attempt to placate people with another time bomb!
It did NOT work out in the end, I have a dead MBP that Apple never fixed and now says they no longer have parts for. I had to buy another computer due to poor quality control, before I intended to.
The conclusion that the 2011 MBPs were poorly engineered and not subsequently fixed despite a logic board replacement program is very well supported by a litany of evidence. No idea what you are on about.
First of all, I mis-read your initial statement. You BOUGHT the 2015, not were provided. For that part, I apologize. However...
I am "on" about this statement: "Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures."
This is demonstrably false, despite your 2011. Had they not cared, there would have been no repair program at all, and you'd have bought a 2011 or 2012. Had they not improved their products, there'd have been no repair program (and two improvements, one of which is currently being used in repairs) to the 2016 MBP keyboard.
Yes, you had the experience that you did. I'm not contesting that, and it remains terrible. After the third repair, you should have been treated differently. However, your experience does not back up this bolded statement.
Out of curiosity, how's the 2015 holding up? Better, hopefully?
Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
Even including keyboard failures, the 2016 and 2017 MBP have a lower first-year failure rate than the 2015 MBP did. And, everything you're talking about, including the 2011, had a repair program.
If they wanted you to upgrade more frequently, they never would have implemented the program.
Look, I get that they're not making what you want them to make. Get what makes you happy!
Apple NEVER fixed [re-engineered] the root cause GPU problems on the 2011 MBPs, that is crystal clear from the articles I linked and they just swapped replacement logic boards, a band-aid but the problem still recurs with the same complete failure issues, happened on THREE logic boards for me. Pretty piss poor engineering responses on Apple's part! They NEVER properly addressed the issues, only pretended to placate people who's MBPs had the issue.
You're conflating issues. Look up why the failures were happening.
Your point being what? I provided all the information about the why in the links provided, those include:
* GPU chip heat issues * Improper adhesion of chip to board (solder) * Improper selection of appropriate thermal compound * Poor cooling system
I guess my question is what precisely were you expecting to happen? It sucks that you had to deal with this but it worked out in the end, given that you were given a computer because of the multiple repairs. Your evidence presented doesn't support your conclusion.
I would expect Apple to provide an ACTUAL ENGINEERED FIX, not some half-hearted attempt to placate people with another time bomb!
It did NOT work out in the end, I have a dead MBP that Apple never fixed and now says they no longer have parts for. I had to buy another computer due to poor quality control, before I intended to.
The conclusion that the 2011 MBPs were poorly engineered and not subsequently fixed despite a logic board replacement program is very well supported by a litany of evidence. No idea what you are on about.
First of all, I mis-read your initial statement. You BOUGHT the 2015, not were provided. For that part, I apologize. However...
I am "on" about this statement: "Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures."
This is demonstrably false, despite your 2011. Had they not cared, there would have been no repair program at all, and you'd have bought a 2011 or 2012. Had they not improved their products, there'd have been no repair program (and two improvements, one of which is currently being used in repairs) to the 2016 MBP keyboard.
Yes, you had the experience that you did. I'm not contesting that, and it remains terrible. After the third repair, you should have been treated differently. However, your experience does not back up this bolded statement.
Out of curiosity, how's the 2015 holding up? Better, hopefully?
Ok Mike, this is disingenuous of you. Did you actually read content at the links provided so you know what you are talking about? Apple acted only because their hand was forced by lawsuit, I quote:
"Apple’s Response In traditional Apple fashion, they would not acknowledge there was a problem and owners without additional AppleCare insurance would be made to pay in excess of $600 to replace their logic board with an equally defective unit. Faced with growing outrage Apple was forced to address this issue in October of 2014 when law firm Whitfield Bryson & Mason LLP filed a class action lawsuit in California federal court on behalf of consumers affected by GPU failure. The complaint included allegations about steps Apple took to conceal the GPU defect. When they were released in early 2011, Apple’s 15 and 17-inch MacBook Pros were being marketed as providing graphical performance three times faster than 2010 models. The suit alleged this performance caused the laptops to run so hot that the solder attached to the laptops GPUs would deform and crack, eventually causing system failure. The updated suit alleged that in 2011, Apple released a software update that reduced the performance of the GPUs by 33 percent in order to prevent them from reaching temperatures that would cause the GPUs to fail. On January 29th, 2015 Apple filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit but ultimately ended up offering affected customers a replacement logic board. The replacement boards had the same defective chip and users would eventually face the same dilemma without Apple’s support. Apple ceased offering this replacement service in December of 2016."
Too early to say much about the 2015 I just bought months ago.
Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
Even including keyboard failures, the 2016 and 2017 MBP have a lower first-year failure rate than the 2015 MBP did. And, everything you're talking about, including the 2011, had a repair program.
If they wanted you to upgrade more frequently, they never would have implemented the program.
Look, I get that they're not making what you want them to make. Get what makes you happy!
Apple NEVER fixed [re-engineered] the root cause GPU problems on the 2011 MBPs, that is crystal clear from the articles I linked and they just swapped replacement logic boards, a band-aid but the problem still recurs with the same complete failure issues, happened on THREE logic boards for me. Pretty piss poor engineering responses on Apple's part! They NEVER properly addressed the issues, only pretended to placate people who's MBPs had the issue.
You're conflating issues. Look up why the failures were happening.
Your point being what? I provided all the information about the why in the links provided, those include:
* GPU chip heat issues * Improper adhesion of chip to board (solder) * Improper selection of appropriate thermal compound * Poor cooling system
I guess my question is what precisely were you expecting to happen? It sucks that you had to deal with this but it worked out in the end, given that you were given a computer because of the multiple repairs. Your evidence presented doesn't support your conclusion.
I would expect Apple to provide an ACTUAL ENGINEERED FIX, not some half-hearted attempt to placate people with another time bomb!
It did NOT work out in the end, I have a dead MBP that Apple never fixed and now says they no longer have parts for. I had to buy another computer due to poor quality control, before I intended to.
The conclusion that the 2011 MBPs were poorly engineered and not subsequently fixed despite a logic board replacement program is very well supported by a litany of evidence. No idea what you are on about.
First of all, I mis-read your initial statement. You BOUGHT the 2015, not were provided. For that part, I apologize. However...
I am "on" about this statement: "Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures."
This is demonstrably false, despite your 2011. Had they not cared, there would have been no repair program at all, and you'd have bought a 2011 or 2012. Had they not improved their products, there'd have been no repair program (and two improvements, one of which is currently being used in repairs) to the 2016 MBP keyboard.
Yes, you had the experience that you did. I'm not contesting that, and it remains terrible. After the third repair, you should have been treated differently. However, your experience does not back up this bolded statement.
Out of curiosity, how's the 2015 holding up? Better, hopefully?
Ok Mike, this is disingenuous of you. Did you actually read content at the links provided so you know what you are talking about? Apple acted only because their hand was forced by lawsuit, I quote:
"Apple’s Response In traditional Apple fashion, they would not acknowledge there was a problem and owners without additional AppleCare insurance would be made to pay in excess of $600 to replace their logic board with an equally defective unit. Faced with growing outrage Apple was forced to address this issue in October of 2014 when law firm Whitfield Bryson & Mason LLP filed a class action lawsuit in California federal court on behalf of consumers affected by GPU failure. The complaint included allegations about steps Apple took to conceal the GPU defect. When they were released in early 2011, Apple’s 15 and 17-inch MacBook Pros were being marketed as providing graphical performance three times faster than 2010 models. The suit alleged this performance caused the laptops to run so hot that the solder attached to the laptops GPUs would deform and crack, eventually causing system failure. The updated suit alleged that in 2011, Apple released a software update that reduced the performance of the GPUs by 33 percent in order to prevent them from reaching temperatures that would cause the GPUs to fail. On January 29th, 2015 Apple filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit but ultimately ended up offering affected customers a replacement logic board. The replacement boards had the same defective chip and users would eventually face the same dilemma without Apple’s support. Apple ceased offering this replacement service in December of 2016."
Too early to say much about the 2015 I just bought months ago.
I've been on this beat for a while, so yeah, I'm familiar with the saga.
Regarding your source, the full, and wide REA program was formally and widely launched in February 2015, with a case-by-case extended repair order in force in January of 2014 -- several months before the October 2014 suit's filing before this expansion to it. So, saying that the suit forced the issue isn't accurate, but I can see where you might get that. The case died on the vine, and you're right, the service ended in 2016.
And, like I said, it sucks that this happened to you. I hope your 2015 serves you well.
We're way off topic from the original post. I'd be happy to continue this conversation in either its own thread, or in direct message.
God I want that 1050 in a Macbook Pro. I'd be fine with the butt being a few mms thicker for it, the uplift is substantial even with the Dells Max-Q version.
The full-up 1060 in the Surface Book 2 I recently picked up is an absolute beast. I had the 2018 15" MacBook Pro for a couple weeks, but never felt quite the same about it as our old Pro. I returned it, but still wanted a high-performing computer with excellent build quality. We picked up the Surface Book 2, and I couldn't be happier. It's honestly the MacBook Pro Apple should have built. I do miss macOS a lot, but Windows 10 is not the Windows everyone complains about, the keyboard feels so much more natural, and while the trackpad is smaller and not solid-state, the tracking and gesture support are equal to the Macs. Yes, the processor is a 20W quad-core 8th-gen i7 instead of the six-core i7's or i9's, but it is still extremely fast, and the GTX 1060 over the Radeon Pro 560X more than makes up for it for the work I do.
Yeah, the surface machines look pretty sweet, obviously so do the Dells. I have already shifted my main workstation back to a beast of a PC running windows and while windows is not as nice as Mac-OS the fact that I can run all my tools on the powerful and upgradable machine at super fast pace makes up for that (at a price I can justify). Ohh, and I can actually play a ton of games I have been missing out on the last 10 years in the Apple Garden. The first couple of weeks were a bit rough but now I can switch seamlessly between my Mac Book Pro and Windows Machine without issue there is an iCloud and iTunes version for windows which is making it easier to slowly transition back to Dropbox and Spotify as I extract myself from the Apple ecosystem.
I mean Apple still makes some nice laptops but they have lost their mind when it comes to pricing their gear which would be fine if that money got you the best of the best, but it does not. At least our bitching and moaning has finally gotten us past the 16GB memory mark, maybe we can bitch some more to get back to user-replaceable components and a reasonable number of ports.
I have both machines right in front of me, both work with the LG 5K monitor - which is brilliant. The Dell is supposed to become my main machine, currently it runs Windows but Linux should become the main OS on the Dell, we will see how this works out.
In terms of graphics performance the Dell blows the Mac right out of the water and first time in many years I have a machine that supports modern OpenGL and Vulkan while the Mac relies on its proprietary Metal and supports OpenGL only up to version 4.1 (from 2010) and Vulkan not at all (or by a wrapper like MoltenVK).
Tools like Blender perform at lot better and I know that such tools will continue to run on this machine even in a few years - not knowing if Apple moves into the direction of "Metal" only. I'm not an artist but a developer in the graphics environment, so tools like Blender don't pay my bills but are part of my toolset.
The price (including tax which I don't have to pay):
Mac:
4599€ for 1TB SSD, 32GB, Core i9 and a LAME 560X with 4GB of video RAM (adapters are not included and you gonna need them)
Dell:
3448€ for 2TB PCIe SSD, 32GB, Core i9, Nvidia 1050GTX Ti (current price, it was ~20% off last month)
I love macOS but the Dell is my favorite machine. It can be repaired and upgraded (maybe 64GB RAM?), it has ports for a SD card or an USB stick. Graphics performance is nice, keyboard nice and it comes at a reasonable price. The Macbook Pro is heavily overpriced and comes with a poor graphics performance and super expensive SSD options and you never gonna upgrade the memory or replace a SSD with the mac - Apple thinks that this is not necessary.
Personally if I have a heavy workload, I'm always connected to a power adapter - even with the mac. And yes, the Macbook looks nicer but I think times are changing and the Dell is the better and cooler workhorse now.
Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
If you have 3 major repair and fail, Apple should offer you a direct MBP replacement. That is what happened to me twice. At least that was apple’s policy back then. Not sure about now. And I always have AppleCare.
Is the takeaway from the Test that the dell outperforms the mac when plugged into power? Which for me is 99% of the time and when I’m on the road I don’t do heavy workloads just browsing and itunes.
The takeaway is that the price of the 15" MacBook Pro is completely outrageous and totally unjustifiable. It used to be that when Apple launched a new Mac, that it was actually very price competitive with Windows PCs, when you actually did a proper "Apples to Apples" comparison (for want of a better colloquialism), in other words compared a MacBook Pro to a similarly sized and weighted machine. Alas, this is no longer the case. It's no wonder that Apple's Mac sales aren't up to much.
Better off with a 2015 15" MBP, which is what I bought when Apple failed to fix my '11 17" MBP GPU issues after THREE logic board replacements, at least that has a socketed SSD and a variety of ports.
Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures. i.e. the Mac should have automatically disabled the discrete failed GPU and went solely to the integrated GPU instead of making the computer no longer usable!
If you have 3 major repair and fail, Apple should offer you a direct MBP replacement. That is what happened to me twice. At least that was apple’s policy back then. Not sure about now. And I always have AppleCare.
Quite the coincidence. I spent half of yesterday setting up a Dell server and a macMini to do a side by side test running Windows 10 Pro N . This on older 'junk' I have lying around as I got bored. The Dell has a 32 GB RAM Xeon E3 and I changed the BIOS to SATA and UEFI and stuck in an SSD, it's a 2009 model I think, the macMini is 2012 with 16 GB RAM and an i5 also with SSD. The macMini trounced the Dell! Totally useless info and a waste of my time but it kept me quiet for a few hours.
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* GPU chip heat issues
* Improper adhesion of chip to board (solder)
* Improper selection of appropriate thermal compound
* Poor cooling system
The conclusion that the 2011 MBPs were poorly engineered and not subsequently fixed despite a logic board replacement program is very well supported by a litany of evidence. No idea what you are on about.
I am "on" about this statement: "Apple does not care about longevity in their products any longer, they just want you to upgrade more frequently and don't fix the issues they did not engineer well that results in failures."
This is demonstrably false, despite your 2011. Had they not cared, there would have been no repair program at all, and you'd have bought a 2011 or 2012. Had they not improved their products, there'd have been no repair program (and two improvements, one of which is currently being used in repairs) to the 2016 MBP keyboard.
Yes, you had the experience that you did. I'm not contesting that, and it remains terrible. After the third repair, you should have been treated differently. However, your experience does not back up this bolded statement.
"Apple’s Response
In traditional Apple fashion, they would not acknowledge there was a problem and owners without additional AppleCare insurance would be made to pay in excess of $600 to replace their logic board with an equally defective unit. Faced with growing outrage Apple was forced to address this issue in October of 2014 when law firm Whitfield Bryson & Mason LLP filed a class action lawsuit in California federal court on behalf of consumers affected by GPU failure. The complaint included allegations about steps Apple took to conceal the GPU defect. When they were released in early 2011, Apple’s 15 and 17-inch MacBook Pros were being marketed as providing graphical performance three times faster than 2010 models. The suit alleged this performance caused the laptops to run so hot that the solder attached to the laptops GPUs would deform and crack, eventually causing system failure. The updated suit alleged that in 2011, Apple released a software update that reduced the performance of the GPUs by 33 percent in order to prevent them from reaching temperatures that would cause the GPUs to fail. On January 29th, 2015 Apple filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit but ultimately ended up offering affected customers a replacement logic board. The replacement boards had the same defective chip and users would eventually face the same dilemma without Apple’s support. Apple ceased offering this replacement service in December of 2016."
Too early to say much about the 2015 I just bought months ago.
Also: https://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/15/2011-macbook-pro-graphics-class-action-suit-expands-accuses-apple-of-concealing-defects
And, like I said, it sucks that this happened to you. I hope your 2015 serves you well.
I mean Apple still makes some nice laptops but they have lost their mind when it comes to pricing their gear which would be fine if that money got you the best of the best, but it does not. At least our bitching and moaning has finally gotten us past the 16GB memory mark, maybe we can bitch some more to get back to user-replaceable components and a reasonable number of ports.
At least that was apple’s policy back then. Not sure about now. And I always have AppleCare.