Google confirms it tracks users even when 'Location History' setting is disabled

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 40
    airnerd said:
    How about if I just delete all Google apps from my iPhone.  Does THAT stop them tracking me?  I honestly can't tell anymore because of the underhanded tactics they apparently pull.   Then when caught red handed with indisputable proof, they change their fine print.  

    Such a shady, underhanded, piece of trash company Alphabet is.  I don't do anything that anyone tracking me would care about, but to make it so convoluted just to be left alone is reprehensible.  

    Q - Should we respect our users' stated wishes to not be tracked?

    A - Don't.  Be Evil.  That is our motto, after all.

    edited August 2018 razorpittallest skilwatto_cobrak2kw
  • Reply 22 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    airnerd said:
    How about if I just delete all Google apps from my iPhone.  Does THAT stop them tracking me?  I honestly can't tell anymore because of the underhanded tactics they apparently pull.   Then when caught red handed with indisputable proof, they change their fine print.  

    Such a shady, underhanded, piece of trash company Alphabet is.  I don't do anything that anyone tracking me would care about, but to make it so convoluted just to be left alone is reprehensible.  
    Don't stop with Google. You made a good start so now look closer to home too. 
    edited August 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 23 of 40
    A despicable and dangerous company which needs sorting out.
    One or all of these options will do...

    1) Split the company up 
    2) Release it's IP to increase the competition.
    3) Nuke it
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 40
    cincyteecincytee Posts: 369member
    Users who wish to stop tracking altogether must ...
    ... stop using Google products.
    tallest skilmagman1979lkruppwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    cincytee said:
    Users who wish to stop tracking altogether must ...
    ... stop using Google products.
    ...and check and disable multiple settings for their Apple devices. And pretty much rid yourself of most 3rd party apps. And stop using Safari. Dumping the carrier and ISP who's tracking you raises an entirely different set of issues. 

    Ridding yourself of Google services only gets you part way there, but making you feel good that you thought you accomplished something is a reward in itself. Just don't stop now if it's honestly important.
    edited August 2018 tallest skilmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 26 of 40
    gatorguy said:
    airnerd said:
    How about if I just delete all Google apps from my iPhone.  Does THAT stop them tracking me?  I honestly can't tell anymore because of the underhanded tactics they apparently pull.   Then when caught red handed with indisputable proof, they change their fine print.  

    Such a shady, underhanded, piece of trash company Alphabet is.  I don't do anything that anyone tracking me would care about, but to make it so convoluted just to be left alone is reprehensible.  
    Don't stop with Google. You made a good start so now look closer to home too. 

    Don't need to look at Apple (as you're implying). You always try to shift the narrative when it comes to data collection.

    Apple data collection pales in comparison to what Google does. By several orders of magnitude.

    That said, data collection isn't the real issue. All companies collect data in some form or another. It's what they DO with that data once they have it that defines a company. Any company that makes 90% of its revenues monetizing user data should not be trusted. Nobody should be surprised when such a company does whatever it takes to ensure their revenue stream isn't hampered by something as silly as user privacy. So tracking location without users knowing (or intentionally taking advantage of a Safari exploit to continue tracking when the user has turned it off) shouldn't surprise anyone.
    razorpitmagman1979SpamSandwichwatto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 27 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    gatorguy said:
    airnerd said:
    How about if I just delete all Google apps from my iPhone.  Does THAT stop them tracking me?  I honestly can't tell anymore because of the underhanded tactics they apparently pull.   Then when caught red handed with indisputable proof, they change their fine print.  

    Such a shady, underhanded, piece of trash company Alphabet is.  I don't do anything that anyone tracking me would care about, but to make it so convoluted just to be left alone is reprehensible.  
    Don't stop with Google. You made a good start so now look closer to home too. 

    Don't need to look at Apple (as you're implying). You always try to shift the narrative when it comes to data collection.

    Apple data collection pales in comparison to what Google does. By several orders of magnitude.
    You assume someone would want to turn off location services only to prevent ad targeting based in part on location data. Some here have a "fear of authorities", or "fear of an ex" or "fear they'll be found someplace they shouldn't be", rational or not, and simply want to avoid ALL location logging. In general Apple doesn't make that any easier than Google does it?

    Yes. "what they do" with data does matter. Google uses location to deliver more relevant ads (for that matter so does Apple on a lesser scale but that's not what we're discussing). In general Apple does so to "improve their services". 

    The fact that a user toggling an iOS "Location Services" master switch to "OFF" with the expectation that off means off also matters doesn't it? That you and others in the discussion wouldn't want to acknowledge that is understandable, tho plainly disingenuous. I'm honest enough to come out and plainly state that IMO it's misleading if not outright deceptive in Google's case to do so. Are you honest enough to admit IF Apple's "Location Services" master "OFF" setting doesn't mean location tracking is completely off for everything it might also be "misleading if not outright deceptive"? 

    If the headline instead read:

    Apple tracks users even when 'Location Services' is disabled

    would it still be accurate?

    edited August 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 28 of 40
    techconctechconc Posts: 222member
    It makes you wonder who would be stupid enough to use Google's services. They are such a slimy company and that's not likely to change as their business model requires them to be this way.
    razorpitwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 40
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    airnerd said:
    How about if I just delete all Google apps from my iPhone.  Does THAT stop them tracking me?  I honestly can't tell anymore because of the underhanded tactics they apparently pull.   Then when caught red handed with indisputable proof, they change their fine print.  

    Such a shady, underhanded, piece of trash company Alphabet is.  I don't do anything that anyone tracking me would care about, but to make it so convoluted just to be left alone is reprehensible.  
    Don't stop with Google. You made a good start so now look closer to home too. 

    Don't need to look at Apple (as you're implying). You always try to shift the narrative when it comes to data collection.

    Apple data collection pales in comparison to what Google does. By several orders of magnitude.
    You assume someone would want to turn off location services only to prevent ad targeting based in part on location data. Some here have a "fear of authorities", or "fear of an ex" or "fear they'll be found someplace they shouldn't be", rational or not, and simply want to avoid ALL location logging. In general Apple doesn't make that any easier than Google does it?

    Yes. "what they do" with data does matter. Google uses location to deliver more relevant ads (for that matter so does Apple on a lesser scale but that's not what we're discussing). In general Apple does so to "improve their services". 

    The fact that a user toggling an iOS "Location Services" master switch to "OFF" with the expectation that off means off also matters doesn't it? That you and others in the discussion wouldn't want to acknowledge that is understandable, tho plainly disingenuous. I'm honest enough to come out and plainly state that IMO it's misleading if not outright deceptive in Google's case to do so. Are you honest enough to admit IF Apple's "Location Services" master "OFF" setting doesn't mean location tracking is completely off for everything it might also be "misleading if not outright deceptive"? 

    Still trying to twist things around.

    I never once mentioned tracking. My point was about whether to trust a company whose entire existence (revenue stream) is dependent on your data. Whether companies track data is irrelevant. What they do with the data is. And this is why Google is a shit company.
    tmaymagman1979SpamSandwichwatto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 30 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    airnerd said:
    How about if I just delete all Google apps from my iPhone.  Does THAT stop them tracking me?  I honestly can't tell anymore because of the underhanded tactics they apparently pull.   Then when caught red handed with indisputable proof, they change their fine print.  

    Such a shady, underhanded, piece of trash company Alphabet is.  I don't do anything that anyone tracking me would care about, but to make it so convoluted just to be left alone is reprehensible.  
    Don't stop with Google. You made a good start so now look closer to home too. 

    Don't need to look at Apple (as you're implying). You always try to shift the narrative when it comes to data collection.

    Apple data collection pales in comparison to what Google does. By several orders of magnitude.
    You assume someone would want to turn off location services only to prevent ad targeting based in part on location data. Some here have a "fear of authorities", or "fear of an ex" or "fear they'll be found someplace they shouldn't be", rational or not, and simply want to avoid ALL location logging. In general Apple doesn't make that any easier than Google does it?

    Yes. "what they do" with data does matter. Google uses location to deliver more relevant ads (for that matter so does Apple on a lesser scale but that's not what we're discussing). In general Apple does so to "improve their services". 

    The fact that a user toggling an iOS "Location Services" master switch to "OFF" with the expectation that off means off also matters doesn't it? That you and others in the discussion wouldn't want to acknowledge that is understandable, tho plainly disingenuous. I'm honest enough to come out and plainly state that IMO it's misleading if not outright deceptive in Google's case to do so. Are you honest enough to admit IF Apple's "Location Services" master "OFF" setting doesn't mean location tracking is completely off for everything it might also be "misleading if not outright deceptive"? 

    Still trying to twist things around.

    I never once mentioned tracking. My point was about whether to trust a company whose entire existence (revenue stream) is dependent on your data. Whether companies track data is irrelevant. What they do with the data is. And this is why Google is a shit company.
    The article itself is about misleading users about when Off is Off.  :/
    So you can't bring yourself to be quite that honest, just as I expected. Disingenuous much?

    Don't feel like you're alone tho. I've been asking another frequent poster here for a little honesty on his part too for a couple of days now and he can't bring himself to it either. 
    edited August 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 40
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    First, redefine evil.  Then do whatever you please.
    “Evil for thee, not for me.”

    If I’m still alive in 10 years, it’ll be interesting to see how many people, by then, know exactly what I’m talking about here.
    airnerd said:
    How about if I just delete all Google apps from my iPhone.  Does THAT stop them tracking me?  I honestly can't tell anymore because of the underhanded tactics they apparently pull.
    Their code is hidden on every single website. You’ll have to stop Safari from getting access to location data ENTIRELY, otherwise Google will just take it. And even THEN, they’ll still know your location because they will be fed the location of the Wi-Fi network you’re connected to (Thanks, Akamai*, for this invasion of privacy!) or the cell tower you’re currently using.

    *I have a friend who lives out in the country, down a decent lane. His Wi-Fi network isn’t strong enough to get to the end of the lane, so he doesn’t show up in his iPad’s Wi-Fi-based location service. Good for him. Akamai doesn’t go down private roads, apparently. Yet.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 40
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 23,364member
    First, redefine evil.  Then do whatever you please.
    “Evil for thee, not for me.”

    If I’m still alive in 10 years, it’ll be interesting to see how many people, by then, know exactly what I’m talking about here.
    airnerd said:
    How about if I just delete all Google apps from my iPhone.  Does THAT stop them tracking me?  I honestly can't tell anymore because of the underhanded tactics they apparently pull.
    You’ll have to stop Safari from getting access to location data ENTIRELY...
    I don't think you can outside of subscribing to a VPN and even that isn't assurance. Apple and Safari will attempt to determine your location and act on it even if you've made the effort to make sure all location settings are set to off (yes Google will too) and supposedly denying them that ability unless you take very active steps to avoid it.
    edited August 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 33 of 40
    In even more updated language, Google now says: "With Location History off, it doesn't matter." 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 40
    jdgazjdgaz Posts: 387member
    Have tried to keep Mr Softy and Mr Google (aka alphabet), out of my home and life.
    magman1979watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 40
    50 billion dollar fine. Now. Why? For human rights violations. Let’s try to catalog the meaningful ones.

    The United Nations. Putting aside how much of an enemy to humanity itself the United Nations is, it does have some interesting documentation. One of these documents recognizes (which generally means fuck all for a government in practice, but hey) the human right to privacy.
    No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
    The United States. The Constitution implicitly grants a right to privacy in the 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th amendments. “BUT THAT’S ONLY THE GOVERNMENT!” the leftists will scream. Ah, but which multinational corporation receives FUNDING FROM MULTIPLE GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD? I wonder…

    India. The Indian constitution implicitly grants the right to privacy under Article 21, and affirmed in Kharak Singh v. State of U.P.[lxxi]
    It held that “an unauthorized intrusion into a person’s home and the disturbance caused to him thereby, is as it were the violation of a common law right of a man -an ultimate essential of ordered liberty, if not of the very concept of civilization”
    China. LOL, just wanted to have a laugh today.

    EU. Do you guys even recognize the general right to privacy? I see an act for a “digital right to privacy” including “anonymization on request” (like, the deletion of stuff from a website), but you clearly don’t honor that. Would I have to look at each constituent country’s own laws to see if they include a general right to privacy? 
    50 billion dollar fine. Now. Why? For human rights violations. Let’s try to catalog the meaningful ones.

    The United Nations. Putting aside how much of an enemy to humanity itself the United Nations is, it does have some interesting documentation. One of these documents recognizes (which generally means fuck all for a government in practice, but hey) the human right to privacy.
    No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
    The United States. The Constitution implicitly grants a right to privacy in the 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th amendments. “BUT THAT’S ONLY THE GOVERNMENT!” the leftists will scream. Ah, but which multinational corporation receives FUNDING FROM MULTIPLE GOVERNMENTS AROUND THE WORLD? I wonder…

    India. The Indian constitution implicitly grants the right to privacy under Article 21, and affirmed in Kharak Singh v. State of U.P.[lxxi]
    It held that “an unauthorized intrusion into a person’s home and the disturbance caused to him thereby, is as it were the violation of a common law right of a man -an ultimate essential of ordered liberty, if not of the very concept of civilization”
    China. LOL, just wanted to have a laugh today.

    EU. Do you guys even recognize the general right to privacy? I see an act for a “digital right to privacy” including “anonymization on request” (like, the deletion of stuff from a website), but you clearly don’t honor that. Would I have to look at each constituent country’s own laws to see if they include a general right to privacy? 
    Yeah they do. Generally the european euro & national laws are framed to reflect their consent to the UN UDHR . The GDPR is more stringent than most US legislation , and the cool thing is it adopted the Scandanavian’s pattern of “fines as percentage of revenue”, which is appropriately brutal. 

    Much better penalities than say the UK Privacy act, which is otherwise pretty good , where FaceBook recently took the maximum possible fine, which amounted to 18 minutes of revenue for FB. 


    tallest skilwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 40
    Rayz2016 said:
    maestro64 said:
    Do not worry gatorguy will be here soon to say this was mistake,
    No he won’t, because this isn’t a mistake. Google just admitted it by changing their documentation. 

    Googleguy doesn’t attempt to deny anything that is so obviously true. In an open-and-shut case like this one, he will spend his time trying to prove that Apple is doing the same thing. 

    If Google is caught with its hands in the cookie jar, then the best tactic is distraction. 


    I think there are a lot of misunderstandings.

    First of all, location history tracks you along every step you take. Other products will only store location if you use them. So for example, if you don't search along your way to work or you don't use maps it won't be logged. You might be able to construct a sparse location history from that info but that depends.

    When you changed the locstion history settings it always said that other products would still record location. The help page on the issue was misleading that's all.
  • Reply 37 of 40
    netroxnetrox Posts: 1,159member
    I always have it enabled since it helps Google or Apple know the context of what I am looking better by seeing where I am. Where you're at makes a HUGE difference in determing what search results would be best for you.
  • Reply 38 of 40
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,066member
    techconc said:
    It makes you wonder who would be stupid enough to use Google's services. They are such a slimy company and that's not likely to change as their business model requires them to be this way.
    They're free and work better.   That's good enough for most people.   Apple still has a ways to go before I think of them for Maps, Search, and AI assistant.

    Google won't change unless forced by law.   And they will make whatever compromises are necessary to be in China now just like Apple.
  • Reply 39 of 40
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,123member
    kevin kee said:
    Makes you wonder what else they didn't acknowledge or tell us in their fine print, well until someone discovered them.
    No, it makes me wonder what they haven't yet acknowledged or told us, that will be in their fine print, once it finally is discovered.

    There may be nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide, but you damn well should be apprised that you're being tracked.

    People who think as above would freak if one day they happened to realize that someone was following and photographing them. They absolutely would not be happy if, when challenging them, the response was 'if you're not doing anything wrong, why do you care?' No, they would call that stalking. Regardless of what they say, they wouldn't like it. Unless maybe they were John Clark. :D
  • Reply 40 of 40
    In case anyone is struggling (as I did) to find this "Web & App Activity" setting to decide whether to turn it off or not, here it is:

    https://myaccount.google.com/activitycontrols

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