Consumers care about the product and if their budgets can allow the purchase. More often than not with the best bang for buck.
FWIW, Huawei also usually invests more in R&D than Apple and licences a huge amount of patents to Apple too.
nonsense. Most Android users care about one thing only. Price. What phone can I get for $40. Period. You may sugarcoat it and say "best bang for the buck", but we know everything at that price point (i.e. bottom-of-barrel) is basically junk.
I haven't bothered to compare Apple's and Huawei's R&D budgets, but I do know that Huawei's must be up there to come out with so many variations and knockoffs, where Apple just has to deal with a tiny number of iPhone models. Big difference. Again, you're sugarcoating it.
Consumers care about the product and if their budgets can allow the purchase. More often than not with the best bang for buck.
FWIW, Huawei also usually invests more in R&D than Apple and licences a huge amount of patents to Apple too.
nonsense. Most Android users care about one thing only. Price. What phone can I get for $40. Period. You may sugarcoat it and say "best bang for the buck", but we know everything at that price point (i.e. bottom-of-barrel) is basically junk.
I haven't bothered to compare Apple's and Huawei's R&D budgets, but I do know that Huawei's must be up there to come out with so many variations and knockoffs, where Apple just has to deal with a tiny number of iPhone models. Big difference. Again, you're sugarcoating it.
Dude, the article is about market share by units. Price, r&d have nothing to do with it. Who has sold the most devices? That’s all the article talks about.
Fwiw, that $40 piece of shit represents a weeks income or more for a significant part of the worlds population. I am sure that most of them would love an iPhone, if they could afford to dump 6 months salary into it.
If 40 bucks gets them a smart phone who are we to judge that choice.
Dude, the article is about market share by units. Price, r&d have nothing to do with it. Who has sold the most devices? That’s all the article talks about.
Fwiw, that $40 piece of shit represents a weeks income or more for a significant part of the worlds population. I am sure that most of them would love an iPhone, if they could afford to dump 6 months salary into it.
If 40 bucks gets them a smart phone who are we to judge that choice.
Huawei has stated that the biggest contribution to the marketshare comes from its Honor brand, which issold in Europe at 400 Euro. Not the premium P20, neither a cheap $40 device
There is overwhelming evidence that Huawei phones are being used by the Chinese to spy on Americans according to US senator Tom Cotton.
Android slaves don't care about privacy.
Android slaves.... LOL
I would hope others here appreciate the silliness of hating an entire group of people, billions of individuals you don't know, because of the phone they chose to buy. Really? The company name on an electronic phone you bought has become the defining characteristic of whether you are free and/or have worth in life?
Better question is what percentage of those phones make a profit?
That is not a better question but Huawei makes a lot of profit. Billions.
Apple sold a little over 40 million iPhones last quarter. How many of those purchasers cared in the slightest how much profit the phone was making?
Hey, if that was broken down on the price tag, I'm sure many would reconsider the purchase.
High or highest profits are not the concern of the consumer. No Apple user would see a discounted iPhone and insist on paying the full retail price.
Investors care about profits.
Consumers care about the product and if their budgets can allow the purchase. More often than not with the best bang for buck.
FWIW, Huawei also usually invests more in R&D than Apple and licences a huge amount of patents to Apple too.
There's another article up here at AI about Global Foundries exiting its attempt to provide 7nm fab capability, leaving TMSC, Samsung, and Intel. To rich a race for its blood, but a race that is incredibly hard to reenter ever again.
Meanwhile, companies from Apple to Qualcomm, including Samsung and HiSilicon, have to pony up the resources for the next generation of SoC designs, amongst other things. Without those profits, and in a market that is rapidly consolidating, it becomes ever more difficult to differentiate products.
What you are arguing for is a an actual race to the bottom, driven by notoriously practical buyers, looking for the "best bang for the buck". Fortunately, and in Apple's case, it at least provides a high quality operating system to differentiate itself against the other high quality operating system, Android OS, or it's derivatives, that is essentially free to all OEM's worldwide. Apple will be least affected by that race to the bottom as the market continues to mature. That is a financial fact.
That leaves all of the Android OS device makers competing primarily on price, and to a lesser extent, features, all the while with a lesser return due to the lower ASP's that entails.
As for Huawei, you should appreciate the most of their business is telecom, not smartphones, so R&D expenses, while similar in amount, aren't really directly comparable to Apple's.
Better question is what percentage of those phones make a profit?
That is not a better question but Huawei makes a lot of profit. Billions.
Apple sold a little over 40 million iPhones last quarter. How many of those purchasers cared in the slightest how much profit the phone was making?
Hey, if that was broken down on the price tag, I'm sure many would reconsider the purchase.
High or highest profits are not the concern of the consumer. No Apple user would see a discounted iPhone and insist on paying the full retail price.
Investors care about profits.
Consumers care about the product and if their budgets can allow the purchase. More often than not with the best bang for buck.
FWIW, Huawei also usually invests more in R&D than Apple and licences a huge amount of patents to Apple too.
What you are arguing for is a an actual race to the bottom, driven by notoriously practical buyers, looking for the "best bang for the buck". Fortunately, and in Apple's case, it at least provides a high quality operating system to differentiate itself against the other high quality operating system, Android OS, or it's derivatives, that is essentially free to all OEM's worldwide. Apple will be least affected by that race to the bottom as the market continues to mature. That is a financial fact.
That leaves all of the Android OS device makers competing primarily on price, and to a lesser extent, features, all the while with a lesser return due to the lower ASP's that entails.
TMay, smartphones ASP's have been rising since 2015, which to me would be the opposite of a race to the bottom.
I’ve been a longtime reader of AI and reading the comments hete made me to signup and make my first comment.
I guess most of you are from the US. I’m from Europe (eastern part, still an EU member). I’ve been using Macs since 2004 (Mini G4, white iMac core2duo, first auminium unibody MacBook) and iPhones (3G, 3GS, 4S, 6), iPad mini.
I love these products because the UI is great, I get stability, good hardware, etc. I admit there are exceptions like the cracking polycarbonate Macs or the recent MacBook keyboard problems, etc. But overal I trust Apple’s products and I agree with the philosophy behind.
However I’m getting more and more fed up with Apple due to the pricing and restrictions around upgradebility. With latest iPhone X they went crazy. I cannot buy any of the Macs because they become insanely expensive as well. Still, you cannot upgrade the hard drive or the memory. And these restrictions are clearly not because of somekind of technical limitation. I believe Apple has started increasing prices since they cannot increase the volume sold. So the only way to make more revenue is by increasing prices.
I want to replace my old iPhone 6 this year, but I’m afraid prices will again be so high that I might just buy a Xiaomi phone. I know it’s Android, but one should not spend a whole month of salary in an iPhone.
Apple Watch? Same thing. I really want one but it’s so expensive compared to the wages here that I will probably skip it this year again. I have a Xiaomi Amazfit Bip for now and I don’t even want to tell how cheap it is. Of course it’s dumb compred to an Apple Watch.
Prices (apple.com vs my country’s Apple website)
iPhone X 256 GB, SIM-free: $1149 vs $1570 (36%) Apple Watch S3 42mm, GPS-only: $359 vs $467 (23%) iMac cheapest option: $1099 vs $1509 (37%)
Do you now understand why more and more people buy cheaper Android alternatives outside the US?
Not to mention that these prices only include 1 freaking year of warranty.
Better question is what percentage of those phones make a profit?
That is not a better question but Huawei makes a lot of profit. Billions.
Apple sold a little over 40 million iPhones last quarter. How many of those purchasers cared in the slightest how much profit the phone was making?
Hey, if that was broken down on the price tag, I'm sure many would reconsider the purchase.
High or highest profits are not the concern of the consumer. No Apple user would see a discounted iPhone and insist on paying the full retail price.
Investors care about profits.
Consumers care about the product and if their budgets can allow the purchase. More often than not with the best bang for buck.
FWIW, Huawei also usually invests more in R&D than Apple and licences a huge amount of patents to Apple too.
What you are arguing for is a an actual race to the bottom, driven by notoriously practical buyers, looking for the "best bang for the buck". Fortunately, and in Apple's case, it at least provides a high quality operating system to differentiate itself against the other high quality operating system, Android OS, or it's derivatives, that is essentially free to all OEM's worldwide. Apple will be least affected by that race to the bottom as the market continues to mature. That is a financial fact.
That leaves all of the Android OS device makers competing primarily on price, and to a lesser extent, features, all the while with a lesser return due to the lower ASP's that entails.
TMay, smartphones ASP's have been rising since 2015, which to me would be the opposite of a race to the bottom.
The best ASP of an Apple competitor is likely Samsung*, at about 1/3rd of Apple's ASP, and yes, I do agree that ASP's are rising as current users trade up. Still, I'm not seeing that commensurate increase in profits within the Android OS ecosystem, low profits certainly being indicative of a commoditized market.
Xiaomi actually stated that they would give back any profits above 5%, yet I doubt they will ever have to do that. In the meantime, they released a high performant, featured packed, Pocophone F1 in Europe that will compete with premium phones at midrange pricing. That will likely have an effect on Huawei's customer acquisition costs going forward. I note that only due to a report that I saw indicating that Huawei had a near 40% unit sales increase in Europe with only a 1.7% revenue increase, spring quarter, if my recollection is correct.
* I could make the case that Google has a higher ASP than other Android OS device makers, with it's Pixel product line, but they aren't really a player in terms of volume to date, and their costs of development aren't going to make that profitable, yet anyway.
If we are looking at profits, it still looks like a race to the bottom, to me anyway.
Edit:
Most of Samsung's profit is from its semiconductor business, and most of that was from sales of memory. I don't see smartphone's as ever being a big profit center like it was some 5 years ago.
Duh, when you're talking unit numbers, penny candy will always outsell boxes of See's or Purdy's. People may dream of a Ferrari or Mercedes, but more Kia's are actually sold. Cheap crap always outsells high priced quality.
Better question is what percentage of those phones make a profit?
That is not a better question but Huawei makes a lot of profit. Billions.
Apple sold a little over 40 million iPhones last quarter. How many of those purchasers cared in the slightest how much profit the phone was making?
Hey, if that was broken down on the price tag, I'm sure many would reconsider the purchase.
High or highest profits are not the concern of the consumer. No Apple user would see a discounted iPhone and insist on paying the full retail price.
Investors care about profits.
Consumers care about the product and if their budgets can allow the purchase. More often than not with the best bang for buck.
FWIW, Huawei also usually invests more in R&D than Apple and licences a huge amount of patents to Apple too.
Yet they’re still just a chinese knockoff following Apple.
Profit matters. It’s the air corporations breathe. Market share is not so important. Mcdonald’s sells more crappy burgers than a high-end steakhouse, but so what?
Duh, when you're talking unit numbers, penny candy will always outsell boxes of See's or Purdy's. People may dream of a Ferrari or Mercedes, but more Kia's are actually sold. Cheap crap always outsells high priced quality.
Bingo, this guy gets it. Bragging about unit sales is silly when it’s cheap.
I suppose this is factual news and may be important to those following global smartphone market share percentage but it's not likely to affect Apple in any way. I'm sure it will negatively impact other Android smartphone manufacturers whose market share is being taken by Huawei. It will be interesting to see if Huawei can maintain its position quarter after quarter when other smartphone manufacturers put them under pressure from newer models or lower cost. I sort of question Android smartphone user loyalty which is easily swayed by products costing less. I can't imagine there would be much of a difference in features of mid-range smartphones where consumers wouldn't quickly switch to another brand with similar features at a slightly lower cost.
It's questionable how much pressure Apple is under competing against a dozen or so Android smartphone manufacturers considering Apple is mainly going after high-end smartphone customers. The high-end smartphone market is a fairly large market and Apple will never be able to take 100% of it no matter what they do. All Apple can do is stay competitive by offering some newer feature set and good customer service. It's something Apple has to do continuously in order to hold repeat customers and occasionally grab new customers. It's a long game that won't be won in just a couple of quarters. I wonder if most analysts and investors even realize this.
Anyway, I'll be happy if Apple can finally get some additional revenue streams to take pressure away from iPhone sales. It's a shame Apple never considered a cloud computing business like many of the other tech companies managed to do. It's rather annoying Apple always gets criticized about not taking higher market share percentage from these Chinese companies that sell smartphones at a much lower price range than Apple does.
Better question is what percentage of those phones make a profit?
As far as we know Huawei isn’t in financial trouble so something is profitable. Not Apple sized profits. But companies aren’t judged just by how much profit they make. If they were Amazon wouldn’t be the second most valuable company in the world.
Duh, when you're talking unit numbers, penny candy will always outsell boxes of See's or Purdy's. People may dream of a Ferrari or Mercedes, but more Kia's are actually sold. Cheap crap always outsells high priced quality.
So is the iPhone SE cheap crap? The car I drive is not a Mercedes or BMW but it’s certainly not cheap crap. I’ve had it for almost 6 years and have had zero issues with it. Just because something doesn’t cost a lot doesn’t mean it’s cheap crap.
I’ve been a longtime reader of AI and reading the comments hete made me to signup and make my first comment.
I guess most of you are from the US. I’m from Europe (eastern part, still an EU member). I’ve been using Macs since 2004 (Mini G4, white iMac core2duo, first auminium unibody MacBook) and iPhones (3G, 3GS, 4S, 6), iPad mini.
I love these products because the UI is great, I get stability, good hardware, etc. I admit there are exceptions like the cracking polycarbonate Macs or the recent MacBook keyboard problems, etc. But overal I trust Apple’s products and I agree with the philosophy behind.
However I’m getting more and more fed up with Apple due to the pricing and restrictions around upgradebility. With latest iPhone X they went crazy. I cannot buy any of the Macs because they become insanely expensive as well. Still, you cannot upgrade the hard drive or the memory. And these restrictions are clearly not because of somekind of technical limitation. I believe Apple has started increasing prices since they cannot increase the volume sold. So the only way to make more revenue is by increasing prices.
I want to replace my old iPhone 6 this year, but I’m afraid prices will again be so high that I might just buy a Xiaomi phone. I know it’s Android, but one should not spend a whole month of salary in an iPhone.
Apple Watch? Same thing. I really want one but it’s so expensive compared to the wages here that I will probably skip it this year again. I have a Xiaomi Amazfit Bip for now and I don’t even want to tell how cheap it is. Of course it’s dumb compred to an Apple Watch.
Prices (apple.com vs my country’s Apple website)
iPhone X 256 GB, SIM-free: $1149 vs $1570 (36%) Apple Watch S3 42mm, GPS-only: $359 vs $467 (23%) iMac cheapest option: $1099 vs $1509 (37%)
Do you now understand why more and more people buy cheaper Android alternatives outside the US?
Not to mention that these prices only include 1 freaking year of warranty.
Maybe you should petition your government to stop the ridiculous practice of adding VAT to everything that comes into the country. It's not Apple's fault that your country is costing you more to buy an Apple product. It's your government.
I’ve been a longtime reader of AI and reading the comments hete made me to signup and make my first comment.
I guess most of you are from the US. I’m from Europe (eastern part, still an EU member). I’ve been using Macs since 2004 (Mini G4, white iMac core2duo, first auminium unibody MacBook) and iPhones (3G, 3GS, 4S, 6), iPad mini.
I love these products because the UI is great, I get stability, good hardware, etc. I admit there are exceptions like the cracking polycarbonate Macs or the recent MacBook keyboard problems, etc. But overal I trust Apple’s products and I agree with the philosophy behind.
However I’m getting more and more fed up with Apple due to the pricing and restrictions around upgradebility. With latest iPhone X they went crazy. I cannot buy any of the Macs because they become insanely expensive as well. Still, you cannot upgrade the hard drive or the memory. And these restrictions are clearly not because of somekind of technical limitation. I believe Apple has started increasing prices since they cannot increase the volume sold. So the only way to make more revenue is by increasing prices.
I want to replace my old iPhone 6 this year, but I’m afraid prices will again be so high that I might just buy a Xiaomi phone. I know it’s Android, but one should not spend a whole month of salary in an iPhone.
Apple Watch? Same thing. I really want one but it’s so expensive compared to the wages here that I will probably skip it this year again. I have a Xiaomi Amazfit Bip for now and I don’t even want to tell how cheap it is. Of course it’s dumb compred to an Apple Watch.
Prices (apple.com vs my country’s Apple website)
iPhone X 256 GB, SIM-free: $1149 vs $1570 (36%) Apple Watch S3 42mm, GPS-only: $359 vs $467 (23%) iMac cheapest option: $1099 vs $1509 (37%)
Do you now understand why more and more people buy cheaper Android alternatives outside the US?
Not to mention that these prices only include 1 freaking year of warranty.
Maybe you should petition your government to stop the ridiculous practice of adding VAT to everything that comes into the country. It's not Apple's fault that your country is costing you more to buy an Apple product. It's your government.
Wake up Neo But you're right. And in the meantime Apple could stop pretending 1 USD = 1 EUR. Just saying.
Duh, when you're talking unit numbers, penny candy will always outsell boxes of See's or Purdy's. People may dream of a Ferrari or Mercedes, but more Kia's are actually sold. Cheap crap always outsells high priced quality.
So is the iPhone SE cheap crap? The car I drive is not a Mercedes or BMW but it’s certainly not cheap crap. I’ve had it for almost 6 years and have had zero issues with it. Just because something doesn’t cost a lot doesn’t mean it’s cheap crap.
By an amazing coincidence I own an iPhone SE. No it's not cheap crap, it's just the smallest iPhone, but it still was between five and six hundred dollars. A guy I work with loves his LG phone. It cost a couple hundred bucks. He's on his third one since I started working with him five years ago. He doesn't break them, they just stop working. I've had my SE for around two and a half years, and barring accident I expect to get another couple years out of it. That's the difference between cheap crap and quality.
(Oh and for the record I have a 13 year old Toyota Prius. It's not cheap crap either.)
Comments
Fwiw, that $40 piece of shit represents a weeks income or more for a significant part of the worlds population. I am sure that most of them would love an iPhone, if they could afford to dump 6 months salary into it.
If 40 bucks gets them a smart phone who are we to judge that choice.
LOL
I would hope others here appreciate the silliness of hating an entire group of people, billions of individuals you don't know, because of the phone they chose to buy. Really? The company name on an electronic phone you bought has become the defining characteristic of whether you are free and/or have worth in life?
Meanwhile, companies from Apple to Qualcomm, including Samsung and HiSilicon, have to pony up the resources for the next generation of SoC designs, amongst other things. Without those profits, and in a market that is rapidly consolidating, it becomes ever more difficult to differentiate products.
What you are arguing for is a an actual race to the bottom, driven by notoriously practical buyers, looking for the "best bang for the buck". Fortunately, and in Apple's case, it at least provides a high quality operating system to differentiate itself against the other high quality operating system, Android OS, or it's derivatives, that is essentially free to all OEM's worldwide. Apple will be least affected by that race to the bottom as the market continues to mature. That is a financial fact.
That leaves all of the Android OS device makers competing primarily on price, and to a lesser extent, features, all the while with a lesser return due to the lower ASP's that entails.
As for Huawei, you should appreciate the most of their business is telecom, not smartphones, so R&D expenses, while similar in amount, aren't really directly comparable to Apple's.
I’ve been a longtime reader of AI and reading the comments hete made me to signup and make my first comment.
I guess most of you are from the US. I’m from Europe (eastern part, still an EU member). I’ve been using Macs since 2004 (Mini G4, white iMac core2duo, first auminium unibody MacBook) and iPhones (3G, 3GS, 4S, 6), iPad mini.
I love these products because the UI is great, I get stability, good hardware, etc. I admit there are exceptions like the cracking polycarbonate Macs or the recent MacBook keyboard problems, etc. But overal I trust Apple’s products and I agree with the philosophy behind.
However I’m getting more and more fed up with Apple due to the pricing and restrictions around upgradebility. With latest iPhone X they went crazy. I cannot buy any of the Macs because they become insanely expensive as well. Still, you cannot upgrade the hard drive or the memory. And these restrictions are clearly not because of somekind of technical limitation. I believe Apple has started increasing prices since they cannot increase the volume sold. So the only way to make more revenue is by increasing prices.
I want to replace my old iPhone 6 this year, but I’m afraid prices will again be so high that I might just buy a Xiaomi phone. I know it’s Android, but one should not spend a whole month of salary in an iPhone.
Apple Watch? Same thing. I really want one but it’s so expensive compared to the wages here that I will probably skip it this year again. I have a Xiaomi Amazfit Bip for now and I don’t even want to tell how cheap it is. Of course it’s dumb compred to an Apple Watch.
Prices (apple.com vs my country’s Apple website)
iPhone X 256 GB, SIM-free: $1149 vs $1570 (36%)
Apple Watch S3 42mm, GPS-only: $359 vs $467 (23%)
iMac cheapest option: $1099 vs $1509 (37%)
Do you now understand why more and more people buy cheaper Android alternatives outside the US?
Not to mention that these prices only include 1 freaking year of warranty.
Xiaomi actually stated that they would give back any profits above 5%, yet I doubt they will ever have to do that. In the meantime, they released a high performant, featured packed, Pocophone F1 in Europe that will compete with premium phones at midrange pricing. That will likely have an effect on Huawei's customer acquisition costs going forward. I note that only due to a report that I saw indicating that Huawei had a near 40% unit sales increase in Europe with only a 1.7% revenue increase, spring quarter, if my recollection is correct.
* I could make the case that Google has a higher ASP than other Android OS device makers, with it's Pixel product line, but they aren't really a player in terms of volume to date, and their costs of development aren't going to make that profitable, yet anyway.
If we are looking at profits, it still looks like a race to the bottom, to me anyway.
Edit:
Most of Samsung's profit is from its semiconductor business, and most of that was from sales of memory. I don't see smartphone's as ever being a big profit center like it was
some 5 years ago.
Another link:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2018/03/02/apple-continues-to-dominate-the-smartphone-profit-pool/#6e79343f61bb
That doesn't mean I personally agree that it's protectionism in action, but there is a logic to his argument.
Yet they’re still just a chinese knockoff following Apple.
Profit matters. It’s the air corporations breathe. Market share is not so important. Mcdonald’s sells more crappy burgers than a high-end steakhouse, but so what?
It's questionable how much pressure Apple is under competing against a dozen or so Android smartphone manufacturers considering Apple is mainly going after high-end smartphone customers. The high-end smartphone market is a fairly large market and Apple will never be able to take 100% of it no matter what they do. All Apple can do is stay competitive by offering some newer feature set and good customer service. It's something Apple has to do continuously in order to hold repeat customers and occasionally grab new customers. It's a long game that won't be won in just a couple of quarters. I wonder if most analysts and investors even realize this.
Anyway, I'll be happy if Apple can finally get some additional revenue streams to take pressure away from iPhone sales. It's a shame Apple never considered a cloud computing business like many of the other tech companies managed to do. It's rather annoying Apple always gets criticized about not taking higher market share percentage from these Chinese companies that sell smartphones at a much lower price range than Apple does.
As far as we know Huawei isn’t in financial trouble so something is profitable. Not Apple sized profits. But companies aren’t judged just by how much profit they make. If they were Amazon wouldn’t be the second most valuable company in the world.
So is the iPhone SE cheap crap? The car I drive is not a Mercedes or BMW but it’s certainly not cheap crap. I’ve had it for almost 6 years and have had zero issues with it. Just because something doesn’t cost a lot doesn’t mean it’s cheap crap.
But you're right. And in the meantime Apple could stop pretending 1 USD = 1 EUR. Just saying.
(Oh and for the record I have a 13 year old Toyota Prius. It's not cheap crap either.)