It's nice how Apple has the market cap crown for a short while. By the end of September, Amazon will have stolen the market cap crown (like candy from a baby) and won't ever give it back. There's absolutely nothing Apple can do about it to get it back. Jeff Bezos is hungry while Tim Cook doesn't care one way or another if Apple doesn't have the highest market cap. If Apple had acquired a cloud computing business, they would have had a good chance of battling it out with AWS. Now, Apple has nothing. A tech company without a cloud computing business is like a race car driver without a race car. Wall Street has endless praise for companies with cloud computing businesses that are said to have unlimited growth potential. Apple never pays attention to what Wall Street values the most. Too bad for Apple shareholders. All the Apple bulls who laughed at Amazon not making profit will now have to watch as Amazon leaves Apple in the dust in terms of overall value.
It's nice how Apple has the market cap crown for a short while. By the end of September, Amazon will have stolen the market cap crown (like candy from a baby) and won't ever give it back. There's absolutely nothing Apple can do about it to get it back. Jeff Bezos is hungry while Tim Cook doesn't care one way or another if Apple doesn't have the highest market cap. If Apple had acquired a cloud computing business, they would have had a good chance of battling it out with AWS. Now, Apple has nothing. A tech company without a cloud computing business is like a race car driver without a race car. Wall Street has endless praise for companies with cloud computing businesses that are said to have unlimited growth potential. Apple never pays attention to what Wall Street values the most. Too bad for Apple shareholders. All the Apple bulls who laughed at Amazon not making profit will now have to watch as Amazon leaves Apple in the dust in terms of overall value.
Bezos is that you?????
Right! With Amazon's P/E of $157 compared to Apple’s P/E of $20. Their stock price to Earnings ratio is out of wack. Considering Apple made 57 Billion in profit in one quarter compared to Amazon’s 11 Billion since it began. I fail to see how they mention them in the same sentence.
As to cloud computing, Apple is one of the largest, if not the largest, in that space. It’s just that they consume all of their own cloud services for use in serving their customers. iCloud and Siri are huge,but Apple doesn’t rent its cloud so you don’t hear about it on Wall St. What you also don’t hear is the comparison of Apple’s new businesses, like Apple Watch, Airpods, services, etc, to Amazon’s cloud. Heck, I’d bet AppleCare brings in more revenue and profits and is growing faster than Amazon’s cloud. Or if not AppleCare, then Apple Watch. Where’s the respect for those businesses? What makes cloud so magical? And why aren’t you recognizing the contribution Apple’s cloud makes to its overall business of selling highly profitable hardware? I suspect the reason is, you’re thinking is too simplistic and one-dimensional on this topic. Are you a Wall St analyst? Just asking.
Just want to clear up some of your misconceptions.
1. Apple doesn't manage their own cloud for iCloud. They use Google Cloud currently. My educated guess why they are using GCP over AWS is because Google is trying to get into this domain and is trying to increase incentives for companies to start or jump ship on GCP.
2. Regardless of revenue, Amazon Cloud is much larger than Apple's cloud solutions by just about every single facet. They have many more engineers, have a broader reach into society, and literally serve a ton of Fortune 100 companies' infrastructure. Apple won't ever "rent" their half-cloud services because that is not their forte. They have never been a services company to anyone outside their ecosystem, and I'm sure if they tried, their inexperience could cause other major issues.
I guarantee you that 75% if not more of the applications/services you use on your Apple devices are actually served by clients on an AWS stack indirectly or directly.
Apple has to diversify their cloud services. In particular, China is requiring Apple's cloud services be hosted on Chinese government authorized servers. At the same time, Apple is continuing to build data centers. Clearly, they should be considered cloud-services.
However, let's get real. Cloud-services is little more than marketing. Everything is internet, therefore everything out there is in a cloud. Saying you're offering cloud services is just being buzzword compliant.
I'm an old curmudgeon who remembers IBM green screen devices connected to an IBM mainframe through networks of data condensers.The CDC computers, Amdahl's. Located across town, across campus. Connecting via 300 baud modems to your favorite services: ftp, telnet. All these were cloud services before they were named that.
I own all FAANG but G. Like a few of the posters, AAPL is majority of my holdings. Diversify they say, but I am a happy camper so far and hopefully, it stays this way until retirement in a few years
It's nice how Apple has the market cap crown for a short while. By the end of September, Amazon will have stolen the market cap crown (like candy from a baby) and won't ever give it back. There's absolutely nothing Apple can do about it to get it back. Jeff Bezos is hungry while Tim Cook doesn't care one way or another if Apple doesn't have the highest market cap. If Apple had acquired a cloud computing business, they would have had a good chance of battling it out with AWS. Now, Apple has nothing. A tech company without a cloud computing business is like a race car driver without a race car. Wall Street has endless praise for companies with cloud computing businesses that are said to have unlimited growth potential. Apple never pays attention to what Wall Street values the most. Too bad for Apple shareholders. All the Apple bulls who laughed at Amazon not making profit will now have to watch as Amazon leaves Apple in the dust in terms of overall value.
Get fucking real. Like the real profits Apple really makes.
As to cloud computing, Apple is one of the largest, if not the largest, in that space. It’s just that they consume all of their own cloud services for use in serving their customers. iCloud and Siri are huge,but Apple doesn’t rent its cloud so you don’t hear about it on Wall St. What you also don’t hear is the comparison of Apple’s new businesses, like Apple Watch, Airpods, services, etc, to Amazon’s cloud. Heck, I’d bet AppleCare brings in more revenue and profits and is growing faster than Amazon’s cloud. Or if not AppleCare, then Apple Watch. Where’s the respect for those businesses? What makes cloud so magical? And why aren’t you recognizing the contribution Apple’s cloud makes to its overall business of selling highly profitable hardware? I suspect the reason is, you’re thinking is too simplistic and one-dimensional on this topic. Are you a Wall St analyst? Just asking.
Just want to clear up some of your misconceptions.
1. Apple doesn't manage their own cloud for iCloud. They use Google Cloud currently. My educated guess why they are using GCP over AWS is because Google is trying to get into this domain and is trying to increase incentives for companies to start or jump ship on GCP.
2. Regardless of revenue, Amazon Cloud is much larger than Apple's cloud solutions by just about every single facet. They have many more engineers, have a broader reach into society, and literally serve a ton of Fortune 100 companies' infrastructure. Apple won't ever "rent" their half-cloud services because that is not their forte. They have never been a services company to anyone outside their ecosystem, and I'm sure if they tried, their inexperience could cause other major issues.
I guarantee you that 75% if not more of the applications/services you use on your Apple devices are actually served by clients on an AWS stack indirectly or directly.
But cloud backends are a commodity. I don’t care which cloud service my apps use, and corporate and app devs will switch when it suits them too. Isn’t being a commodity the big sin people warn about Apple computers and devices becoming, because then there will be no brand loyalty? Seems it’s already there in cloud. Why is fear of commoditization a supposed concern for Apple but not for cloud backend providers?
radarthekat said: Like Ramanpfaff (see his earlier comment), I’ve had between 75-90% of my net worth in Apple for a long time. Only recently, almost begrudgingly, have I begun diversifying, now at 65% in Apple.
Same club. Begrudgingly down to 65% of net worth in Apple... but I was able to pay cash for a home.
But, Apple's cloud footprint is tiny compared to Amazon, Google, Facebook, and I believe Rackspace. They should be roughly on-par with IBM. I'm not sure if they should expand it, but they could easily buy one of the many floundering Tier-3 Co-lo's with petty cash (my vote would be INAP), and go at it with gusto. They just don't seem to have a clear business plan for it. Amazon does!
Also agree on market cap... I want them to keep buying back shares to keep it down, personally. Being the biggest can attract too much attention.
Right! With Amazon's P/E of 157 compared to Apple’s P/E of 20.
In fairness, Amazon only recently started trying to make a profit, so a reasonable comp would be about 1/4 of their current PE, not too far out of whack for the general market. They will overtake Apple in market cap, but only because the two companies have opposite strategies in that regard at the moment.
If Amazon did a 100:1 split, I would expect an easy 20% increase, as too many small investors are currently squeezed out of their stock. I consider my holdings to be substantial... but I only have three blocks including deep ITM leap calls, which doesn't give me much flexibility.
They are a lot stickier than you might think, especially when you are talking about petabytes of data. There might be the appearance of a commodity, but there are substantial differentiators and drivers in selection at scale. For the single instance or small company the transition energy might not be that big of an issue, but the whole idea is to trap you in.
Not sure how Apple would make money in this space, or differentiate themselves-- what I see suggests they aren't really very good at it. Sad to see an Apple MDF with a MacPro trash can sitting in the back of a rack like they didn't have any better solution, although that isn't necessarily representative.
They are a lot stickier than you might think, especially when you are talking about petabytes of data. There might be the appearance of a commodity, but there are substantial differentiators and drivers in selection at scale. For the single instance or small company the transition energy might not be that big of an issue, but the whole idea is to trap you in.
Not sure how Apple would make money in this space, or differentiate themselves-- what I see suggests they aren't really very good at it. Sad to see an Apple MDF with a MacPro trash can sitting in the back of a rack like they didn't have any better solution, although that isn't necessarily representative.
I’m not suggesting they should. What I’m saying is backend cloud service providers are more of a commodity than iphones & macs, despite the hand-waiving we hear from people about Apple’s business. So it’s curious you don’t hear it about cloud providers. Because yes, virtualization and dockers and container apps are very transportable.
It's nice how Apple has the market cap crown for a short while. By the end of September, Amazon will have stolen the market cap crown (like candy from a baby) and won't ever give it back.
Ugh - why the obsession with market share? I'd much rather have Apple's phone business than Google's, for example...
It's nice how Apple has the market cap crown for a short while. By the end of September, Amazon will have stolen the market cap crown (like candy from a baby) and won't ever give it back. There's absolutely nothing Apple can do about it to get it back. Jeff Bezos is hungry while Tim Cook doesn't care one way or another if Apple doesn't have the highest market cap. If Apple had acquired a cloud computing business, they would have had a good chance of battling it out with AWS. Now, Apple has nothing. A tech company without a cloud computing business is like a race car driver without a race car. Wall Street has endless praise for companies with cloud computing businesses that are said to have unlimited growth potential. Apple never pays attention to what Wall Street values the most. Too bad for Apple shareholders. All the Apple bulls who laughed at Amazon not making profit will now have to watch as Amazon leaves Apple in the dust in terms of overall value.
You want to bet on that? I bet $100 that at the end of September, Apple is still #1 market cap!
Comments
However, let's get real. Cloud-services is little more than marketing. Everything is internet, therefore everything out there is in a cloud. Saying you're offering cloud services is just being buzzword compliant.
I'm an old curmudgeon who remembers IBM green screen devices connected to an IBM mainframe through networks of data condensers.The CDC computers, Amdahl's. Located across town, across campus. Connecting via 300 baud modems to your favorite services: ftp, telnet. All these were cloud services before they were named that.
But cloud backends are a commodity. I don’t care which cloud service my apps use, and corporate and app devs will switch when it suits them too. Isn’t being a commodity the big sin people warn about Apple computers and devices becoming, because then there will be no brand loyalty? Seems it’s already there in cloud. Why is fear of commoditization a supposed concern for Apple but not for cloud backend providers?
But, Apple's cloud footprint is tiny compared to Amazon, Google, Facebook, and I believe Rackspace. They should be roughly on-par with IBM. I'm not sure if they should expand it, but they could easily buy one of the many floundering Tier-3 Co-lo's with petty cash (my vote would be INAP), and go at it with gusto. They just don't seem to have a clear business plan for it. Amazon does!
Also agree on market cap... I want them to keep buying back shares to keep it down, personally. Being the biggest can attract too much attention.
If Amazon did a 100:1 split, I would expect an easy 20% increase, as too many small investors are currently squeezed out of their stock. I consider my holdings to be substantial... but I only have three blocks including deep ITM leap calls, which doesn't give me much flexibility.
They are a lot stickier than you might think, especially when you are talking about petabytes of data. There might be the appearance of a commodity, but there are substantial differentiators and drivers in selection at scale. For the single instance or small company the transition energy might not be that big of an issue, but the whole idea is to trap you in.
Not sure how Apple would make money in this space, or differentiate themselves-- what I see suggests they aren't really very good at it. Sad to see an Apple MDF with a MacPro trash can sitting in the back of a rack like they didn't have any better solution, although that isn't necessarily representative.